Margins from suckler beef

Easten · 18-06-2021 8:57am #1

I have found the costs involved in the Suckler beef system have kept on rising and yet the prices for the cattle after do not match. Looking back over the life of one of the cows I culled this year She had 9 calves. Her 1st calf a bull made 720, her last calf sold a few weeks back another bull made 810.
90 euros price increase in 9 years.
Every other commodity has doubled in price in the last year.
Looking back on what I used to pay a few years back
Vet call out fees gone from 40 to 100
Weanlen Crunch gone from 5.50 to 8.50 / bag
Silage 9.50/bale to 13.5
Mart fees 5/head to 10
CAN 195 to 240
Farm Insurance 375 to 705

I could list many more but the main point is the beef price has not risen in line with these. Lads telling me cattle are very dear now at the moment. Jezz I'd hate to see what they think low prices are.
I run what I think is a fairly average farm, 27 Sucklers selling the Weanlens from 9 -12 months
Yes the ad Weanlen makes 1100 in the ring, but I also have the ad small heifer only making 700.
Doing the homework on the numbers I'm coming out with about 3.5k profit without paying myself a cent, add on the EU monies and I'm up to 10k. Feck knows what would happen if I ever went down with tb, the feed bills would be the end of it.
10k works out at less than 200 bucks a week. 200 bucks for a farming system where all you are basically doing is running to stand still.
Suckler beef is at the stage now where you would be better off keeping next to no animals and just collect the EU money

cute geoge · 18-06-2021 10:04am

Not been smart ,but suckling is dying slowly .The future for beefi n this country is raising dairy x beef bred .AA comand the premium price in the factory that is what lidl/aldi want anyway.Would not be better off chancing a few beefxdairy bred suck calves .At the moment you could pick them up handy and they are easier handle then sucklers and it would suprise me if they would not leave you with more profit

Gman1987 · 18-06-2021 10:48am

I would tend to somewhat agree with what Cute Geoge has said above. You are making circa. €130 per cow which isn't enough to justify the work that is in it with calving cows etc. See if their is anything you can do to improve your profitability and if that's not possible then I would seriously consider changing the system. If you were buying in the likes of AA or HE yearlings you would carry circa. 80 of these where you previously had your 27 cows and their weanlings. On a like for like comparison they would need to leave just €44 profit per head to compare to your current suckler system. They should leave a good bit more than this so I would imagine it would be a better option.

Count Mondego · 18-06-2021 10:50am

I can't wait for the day that Irish dairy farms aren't producing pure dirt beef cattle.

Say my name · 18-06-2021 11:03am

cute geoge wrote: »

Not been smart ,but suckling is dying slowly .The future for beefi n this country is raising dairy x beef bred .AA comand the premium price in the factory that is what lidl/aldi want anyway.Would not be better off chancing a few beefxdairy bred suck calves .At the moment you could pick them up handy and they are easier handle then sucklers and it would suprise me if they would not leave you with more profit

The Ashdown park hotel in gorey and the family that run it are martyrs for the breed.
I think it's something like 1300 aax head they rear and fatten. Some family.

trixi2011 · 18-06-2021 11:05am

Count Mondego wrote: »

I can't wait for the day that Irish dairy farms aren't producing pure dirt beef cattle.

What would you class as pure dirt beef cattle ?

Gman1987 · 18-06-2021 11:17am

Count Mondego wrote: »

I can't wait for the day that Irish dairy farms aren't producing pure dirt beef cattle.

That's a different conversation. The OP is probably producing the best of beef currently but their is very little margin in it for him so fair play to him for sharing this with us here and questioning its viability. At the end of the day the number one goal should be to maximise his profitability per HA

Count Mondego · 18-06-2021 11:20am

trixi2011 wrote: »

What would you class as pure dirt beef cattle ?

The majority of calves going through the Mart coming from dairy herds.

grassroot1 · 18-06-2021 11:23am

cute geoge wrote: »

Not been smart ,but suckling is dying slowly .The future for beefi n this country is raising dairy x beef bred .AA comand the premium price in the factory that is what lidl/aldi want anyway.Would not be better off chancing a few beefxdairy bred suck calves .At the moment you could pick them up handy and they are easier handle then sucklers and it would suprise me if they would not leave you with more profit

Recent journal figures would not agree with you assumption.
In short most beef options are unviable

blue5000 · 18-06-2021 12:16pm

Our DG analysed the various suckling systems from the group profit monitor results. Lowest margins were from farms selling weanlings. Highest margins were lads finishing everything and buying in a few as well. There's 6 in the group gone milking in the last 5 years.

I've switched to organic, cutting cow numbers by 30%. Plan is to sell males at 18 month forward stores and do a small bit of tillage in rotation with red clover. Not sure where you farm Easten, but can you look at keeping weanlings through the first winter to sell in spring?

_Brian · 18-06-2021 1:31pm

Wintering costs for sucklers herds must vary dramatically across the country.

Lads with cows in for 20week winters are spending massively as a result. I would know plenty of lads making 6 months feeding every year. Given current overheads and beef prices this couldn’t work.

The high numbers of empty cows being carried over is another massive drain on the system.

trg · 18-06-2021 1:59pm

_Brian wrote: »

Wintering costs for sucklers herds must vary dramatically across the country.

Lads with cows in for 20week winters are spending massively as a result. I would know plenty of lads making 6 months feeding every year. Given current overheads and beef prices this couldn’t work.

The high numbers of empty cows being carried over is another massive drain on the system.

We're in that zone. 6 month winters, keeping empties often to give another chance. Low quality silage, little or no weight gain from weaning to yearling, lots of cows only calving in April.

We're authors of our own misfortune anyway!

mr.stonewall · 18-06-2021 2:13pm

_Brian wrote: »

Wintering costs for sucklers herds must vary dramatically across the country.

Lads with cows in for 20week winters are spending massively as a result. I would know plenty of lads making 6 months feeding every year. Given current overheads and beef prices this couldn’t work.

The high numbers of empty cows being carried over is another massive drain on the system.

The idea of passengers is one that I can't get. The cost of keeping the cow is just huge in the suckler game. If she does not go in calf or lose a calf, she has to go. Simple economics says that.

I have dropped suckler numbers and switch to a bit of calf to beef over the past few years. Returns are better, for a number of reasons. You don't have to carry the cow, you can get out in the year earlier as you are dealing with lighter stock, thus reducing winter feed costs. While they may not be pretty to look at, they definitely are better on the pocket than a suckler cow.

An option for the OP is to consider keeping a few calves to year and halves.

Hard Knocks · 18-06-2021 2:20pm

Well done & thank OP for your honesty
It doesn’t matter the enterprise, we are all on the same road just different stages
My Father was talking about a weanling sale in the 80’s where he sold the champion (a CH bull of a FR cow) the calf pair for the roof for the house
I helping a neighbour about 20 years ago was thinking of leaving milking, the price at the time was the same as it was 20 years previous and the difference the monthly cheque could do for his family

All our costs are increasing with little reason needed but it takes allot to increase farm gate income

Bass Reeves · 18-06-2021 3:01pm

The economics of suckler's fa on output. The output off a unit is on average a sub 350 kg weanling/ year. You will keep two finishing, three stores or 4 calf to store units in the same area. The other factor is the inefficiency of the system no matter what way you run it you have multiple different groups that have to be kept separate. Now sometimes lads do not help themselves in number of bunches but I have often seen 5-8 groups of cattle on a Suckler farm. I normally manage with 2-3 bunches.

Then you do not have the economy of scale when buy inputs especially ration. I buying barley/ maize/ hulls at 270/ ton. There is no doubt that Inputs have out paced outputs substantially in beef and output has become mone complicated with it being s struggle at times to market heavy Suckler cattle and bulls at times.

Demand for beef had migrated to lighter cattle and traditional breeds. Most lads that change from suckling are happy enough at it. If your land is of decent quality then it's a no brainer.

893bet · 18-06-2021 3:10pm

trg wrote: »

We're in that zone. 6 month winters, keeping empties often to give another chance. Low quality silage, little or no weight gain from weaning to yearling, lots of cows only calving in April.

We're authors of our own misfortune anyway!

Dad? Is that you?

farawaygrass · 18-06-2021 3:46pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The economics of suckler's fa on output. The output off a unit is on average a sub 350 kg weanling/ year. You will keep two finishing, three stores or 4 calf to store units in the same area. The other factor is the inefficiency of the system no matter what way you run it you have multiple different groups that have to be kept separate. Now sometimes lads do not help themselves in number of bunches but I have often seen 5-8 groups of cattle on a Suckler farm. I normally manage with 2-3 bunches.

Then you do not have the economy of scale when buy inputs especially ration. I buying barley/ maize/ hulls at 270/ ton. There is no doubt that Inputs have out paced outputs substantially in beef and output has become mone complicated with it being s struggle at times to market heavy Suckler cattle and bulls at times.

Demand for beef had migrated to lighter cattle and traditional breeds. Most lads that change from suckling are happy enough at it. If your land is of decent quality then it's a no brainer.

One of my big issues is all the groups Of cattle with suckling, and for me I couldn’t put one group in a few fields because they’d be too close to another group. It’s very difficult to manage grass at all. I know there are people who do it brilliantly and I tip my hat to them.

Grueller · 18-06-2021 9:47pm

farawaygrass wrote: »

One of my big issues is all the groups Of cattle with suckling, and for me I couldn’t put one group in a few fields because they’d be too close to another group. It’s very difficult to manage grass at all. I know there are people who do it brilliantly and I tip my hat to them.

I have sucklers knocking about still and between all of the groups they take nearly as much time as milking a small herd twice a day.

farawaygrass · 18-06-2021 10:24pm

Grueller wrote: »

I have sucklers knocking about still and between all of the groups they take nearly as much time as milking a small herd twice a day.

ðŸ˜‚ I’d well believe it.
I was adamant I was getting out of sucklers last year but kept the bull till june for bdgp. Low snd behold, looking at the cows and calves in the nice summer days I let him out again.
It’s hard to make the break, a lot of sentiment tied up with it all, but I think, for me it’s the right decision, when ever it happens!

Dunedin · 18-06-2021 10:28pm

farawaygrass wrote: »

One of my big issues is all the groups Of cattle with suckling, and for me I couldn’t put one group in a few fields because they’d be too close to another group. It’s very difficult to manage grass at all. I know there are people who do it brilliantly and I tip my hat to them.

21 cows here and it’s Cows/calves one group, yearlings in second group and 2 year olds in third.

Where do all the groups come from?

I have all mine in paddocks and/or ditches cut very low so just need to ensure that there is always a spare field/paddock in between two groups especially with the bull. But with electric fence, there’s very rarely an issue. Bigger groups clean out the paddocks quicker too.

Anto_Meath · 18-06-2021 10:44pm

Dunedin wrote: »

21 cows here and it’s Cows/calves one group, yearlings in second group and 2 year olds in third.

Where do all the groups come from?

I have all mine in paddocks and/or ditches cut very low so just need to ensure that there is always a spare field/paddock in between two groups especially with the bull. But with electric fence, there’s very rarely an issue. Bigger groups clean out the paddocks quicker too.

Dunedin, I am the same as you, 20 cows, cows & calves in 1 group plus some bucket fed calves that train the Suckler calves into coming the yard for meal & help keep all quite. Then last calves are another group, with a third group of 2 year old, this one could be split at times if I am feeding meal. U need to be ruthless with cow select though, anything not preforming goes no excuses. Bucket fed calf to beef is a lot of work for the weeks you are feeding milk & then they need meal for a good while after they are weaned, do no big pile of money in that either.

Bass Reeves · 18-06-2021 11:00pm

Dunedin wrote: »

21 cows here and it’s Cows/calves one group, yearlings in second group and 2 year olds in third.

Where do all the groups come from?

I have all mine in paddocks and/or ditches cut very low so just need to ensure that there is always a spare field/paddock in between two groups especially with the bull. But with electric fence, there’s very rarely an issue. Bigger groups clean out the paddocks quicker too.

Ya for some of the year you can run as a bunch it Priya tad easier if you are squeezing or banding the bulls.

But earlier I. The year you may have them split. There is always a cow or two that had a hard calving. They bull has to be kept separate from everything else until maybe May if you are compact calving. Then there the bunch that may have young calves, they cow that failed to get up after calving is in a corner somewhere. The co
Alf who's mother had not enough or no milk. Then there is a couple of culls getting a bit of ration to finish off

squinn2912 · 18-06-2021 11:05pm

I’ve just finished counting it up. 8 groups. We must be insane

tanko · 18-06-2021 11:12pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Ya for some of the year you can run as a bunch it Priya tad easier if you are squeezing or banding the bulls.

But earlier I. The year you may have them split. There is always a cow or two that had a hard calving. They bull has to be kept separate from everything else until maybe May if you are compact calving. Then there the bunch that may have young calves, they cow that failed to get up after calving is in a corner somewhere. The co
Alf who's mother had not enough or no milk. Then there is a couple of culls getting a bit of ration to finish off

No cow had a hard calving here, no bull on the farm, all cows calved in 8 weeks, no cow in a corner somewhere that failed to get up after calving, all the calves seem to be getting enough milk, no culls getting ration to finish off.
I must be doing something wrong.

Geuze · 18-06-2021 11:15pm

I am not a farmer. I have farmer friends, and I know a small bit about it. I buy the FJ maybe twice a year, good newspaper.

I have read articles about the difficulties in suckler beef.

It wasn't always obvious to me than even within beef farming, there are various different business models.

Can I ask a few questions about sucker farmers:

mainly based in west / northwest, is that correct?
they own X number of cows, and hope to have X calves each year
they don't use the cows for milk, instead the income is from selling the calf each year
I'm not clear on what time of year the calf is born?
I note the points about carrying the cow over the winter
unlike dairy, it seems to be that income arrives just once a year, when the weanling calves are sold?
at what age are weanling calves sold?
who are the buyers of the calves?
why don't the suckers farmers keep the calves, and finish them?

grassroot1 · 18-06-2021 11:38pm

tanko wrote: »

No cow had a hard calving here, no bull on the farm, all cows calved in 8 weeks, no cow in a corner somewhere that failed to get up after calving, all the calves seem to be getting enough milk, no culls getting ration to finish off.
I must be doing something wrong.

81 cattle here 1 bunch

Grueller · 19-06-2021 12:34am

tanko wrote: »

No cow had a hard calving here, no bull on the farm, all cows calved in 8 weeks, no cow in a corner somewhere that failed to get up after calving, all the calves seem to be getting enough milk, no culls getting ration to finish off.
I must be doing something wrong.

Nope. You are doing a lot right. I am not trying to be a pedant or a pr1ck here, but, is there money in it even at that?
I have a load of rosettes here from show and sales. Very, very few sections, very rare a cow down (1 in 10 years from calving), averaged just €1000 a weanling in my best years. Still made next to no money.

tanko · 19-06-2021 12:51am

Nope, no money in it.
I was just replying to the usual predictable lazy bs.

Neddyusa · 19-06-2021 1:21am

Grueller wrote: »

Nope. You are doing a lot right. I am not trying to be a pedant or a pr1ck here, but, is there money in it even at that?
I have a load of rosettes here from show and sales. Very, very few sections, very rare a cow down (1 in 10 years from calving), averaged just €1000 a weanling in my best years. Still made next to no money.

That's the point really, even the "top 10%" aren't making any money - breaking even at best.
Therefore the most efficient beef system is the one that lets you keep just enough heads to keep the grass down and the grants claimed... And leave you enough hours to get out the gate and earn a living in a job that pays.

jfh · 19-06-2021 7:44am

Agree on the groups with sucklers, as my calving season is a couple of months, have cows still to calve on bare paddock, have freshly calved cow, heifers and cows from the bull running with a teaser.
Then the main suckler herd, then bullocks, then heifers. My fencing is excellent so can graze next to each other but a lot of groups all the same

Bass Reeves · 19-06-2021 10:12am

Geuze wrote: »

I am not a farmer. I have farmer friends, and I know a small bit about it. I buy the FJ maybe twice a year, good newspaper.

I have read articles about the difficulties in suckler beef.

It wasn't always obvious to me than even within beef farming, there are various different business models.

Can I ask a few questions about sucker farmers:

mainly based in west / northwest, is that correct?
they own X number of cows, and hope to have X calves each year
they don't use the cows for milk, instead the income is from selling the calf each year
I'm not clear on what time of year the calf is born?
I note the points about carrying the cow over the winter
unlike dairy, it seems to be that income arrives just once a year, when the weanling calves are sold?
at what age are weanling calves sold?
who are the buyers of the calves?
why don't the suckers farmers keep the calves, and finish them?

On your questions it is all along the west coast from West Cork to Donegal and along the rest of the border and some of the Midlands. Over the last 2-3 years herds on better land have moved over to dairying especially on larger full-time farms.

You be hoping for a calf,/ year, better operators are hitting over 0.95 Cales/cow. However the national average is about 0.8/cow each year.

Most herds are spring calving (Feb-Apr ) but you have autumn calving but some farmers let cows virtually calf all year around they are in a small minority at this stage.

Yes your income is either calf store or beef sales. Weanlings are generally sold at 6-10 months mostly lads try to sell them at 300-350 kgs live weight.

On better type land some farmers carry them to store(16-22 months) and some carry them to finish. However on poorer quality land lads ten to sell at weaning ( when the calf is removed from the mother).

Bass Reeves · 19-06-2021 11:37am

Jjameson wrote: »

I perceived suckler bred cattle to be better value than my usual middle of the road mix of fr and frx
bullocks last year and while financially I was correct in the sums the little extra left isn’t wort a ****e, the temperament of these hoors leaves it just not worth it.
Every time I go do anything with them there’s drama!
I supposed they do focus your mind on prayer!!
“Please God don’t let him jump that”
Ect....

The few goms I see pictured in the ifj looking to couple the few Bob we get handy from Europe to these hoors of animals for the benefit of a beef processing cartel should be sectioned.

Ya I agree about those two things idiots, I say if you added there total number of brain cells you would struggle to get to two between them. They are just both old men that have not moved with the times.

I agree with your assessment of handling Suckler bred cattle. Ya you can manage a few handy enough in a bunch with dairy cross stock. But when it goes beyond 15% of the total it starts to get really messy. As you say the few bob extra is hardly worth it especially if you are working.even traditional breed suckler's get messy when handling in the crush. Even if you have them housed for the winter it can be dangerous handling them. A lad that set stocks say now anything like that dose not go back to grass after the second winter

The other factor I do not like is the amount of money you have tied up in them. Last year average store costs bit with 600 euro 60 cattle cost me less that 37k. If I bought Suckler bred cattle it would be another 15-20k tied up in stock

Jjameson wrote: »

The calving dates rhetoric has been well spun by ifj and tragacanth and I’m not sure it’s true. It’s trying to take dairy farming logic where a cow is losing milk sales and applying it to a totally different scenario.
I’ve often seen lighter late born stock touch within 50€ of older cattle 100 kg heavier.

Ya that because lighter ones 4-5 months old in the Autumn can be carried cheaply for two winters. If you finish your them from June to early September they leave way more than lads slaughtered out if the shed the previous winter

Easten · 19-06-2021 12:14pm

Hard to know what to do, I've tried bits of them other systems like bucket calf rearing but that was a waste of effort for me. Its fair bad to be in the seller box of the mart with 20 hereford which are really no more than whitehead jersey.
I done double sucking the Cows for a few years when the calf price was reasonable and you could get a good quality calf, I think that left me the most profit but that was an awful lot of hardship with Cows refusing the calves to them going full mental and even refusing there own calves! but at least I wasn't down at the local shop wondering should I put in a fiver less petrol into the Car this week.
I've done the Teagasc and had some young fella with his calculator telling me about reseeding, AI, new sheds and expansion. I told him I've been there done that, spent that 20 years tending plasterers on the building to pay for the land and sheds. Work of an Ape.
A few years back you could justify working and Sucklers but not now.
It still boils down to the margins and with my current Suckler system I'd need 3 times the amount to make anything near what an ordinary job would pay.
The SFP has only gone on the opposite direction, I'm getting less now with the cuts to my unit values.
As you can tell by now I'm fairly deluded by the system, but disappointed that so many seem to be in the same boat and theirs no real alternatives.

Bass Reeves · 19-06-2021 1:25pm

If you were selling the calves you bought at 6-7 months you are wasting you time. Calves have to be carried to 16 months plus to leave a margin.

I seen a few lads with suckler's giving CSL es a try and mainly they fall down on management skills. Calves are not given the same priority as suckler's and the management of them is totally different to suckler's. A good few lads get the calf to 4 months and then more or less let them fend for themselves in a bit of a paddock near the house that often carries a large worm Infestation and has poor grass on it.

If you are doing calves they need priority, fresh grass at least every week and dosed every 6-8 weeks maybe even more often earlier

Anto_Meath · 19-06-2021 5:39pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If you were selling the calves you bought at 6-7 months you are wasting you time. Calves have to be carried to 16 months plus to leave a margin.

I seen a few lads with suckler's giving CSL es a try and mainly they fall down on management skills. Calves are not given the same priority as suckler's and the management of them is totally different to suckler's. A good few lads get the calf to 4 months and then more or less let them fend for themselves in a bit of a paddock near the house that often carries a large worm Infestation and has poor grass on it.

If you are doing calves they need priority, fresh grass at least every week and dosed every 6-8 weeks maybe even more often earlier

Very true, bucket fed calves need attention every day & because of this I find they take more care than sucklers. I rear around 20 a year, along with 20 sucklers. The bucket feds need more regular dosing, plus plenty of minerals as they are missing it from their mothers milk. Good fresh grass, but not too good of quality grass as that runs through them and about a kg of meal every day. I do mine well and it pays plus the kids love helping me with them. A friend of mine who is a very good suckler farmer reared calves this last two years, he tells me he will never do it again as there is always something to be done with them. Where as with the sucklers the work finishes in April and then a few days around weaning / sheding time. Plus cattle with FR breeding in them eat alot more feed to put on every kg of beef, it's in the genitics to produce milk not beef.

Dickie10 · 19-06-2021 10:51pm

we had 17-20 sucklers for a few years after a dodge bullock, kept at it from 2009-18 then slaughtered the bull that summer when he was 9 year old, couldnt justify it, weanling and yearling to beef now. buy store lambs and up the ewes numbers

squinn2912 · 19-06-2021 11:02pm

Dickie10 wrote: »

we had 17-20 sucklers for a few years after a dodge bullock, kept at it from 2009-18 then slaughtered the bull that summer when he was 9 year old, couldnt justify it, weanling and yearling to beef now. buy store lambs and up the ewes numbers

Interested to know have many gone from sucklers to weanling - beef. Does it leave any more for you? You don’t have the calving, horninb, tagging or weaning

893bet · 20-06-2021 9:38am

squinn2912 wrote: »

Interested to know have many gone from sucklers to weanling - beef. Does it leave any more for you? You don’t have the calving, horninb, tagging or weaning

No but you will carry twice to three times as many cattle for the same gross gross profit. Have more dosing to do. More chance of a sick animal. More chance of a wild animal. More chance of disease importation. More days at the mart or where ever to buy and sell.

I don’t think any beef system is consistently significantly better than another. But sucklers are definitely a vocation.

morphy87 · 20-06-2021 10:56am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If you were selling the calves you bought at 6-7 months you are wasting you time. Calves have to be carried to 16 months plus to leave a margin.

I seen a few lads with suckler's giving CSL es a try and mainly they fall down on management skills. Calves are not given the same priority as suckler's and the management of them is totally different to suckler's. A good few lads get the calf to 4 months and then more or less let them fend for themselves in a bit of a paddock near the house that often carries a large worm Infestation and has poor grass on it.

If you are doing calves they need priority, fresh grass at least every week and dosed every 6-8 weeks maybe even more often earlier

A friend has 19 acres, good land he is currently reseeding it, he was thinking of rearing calf’s, if this was divided right and properly fertilized would he graze 20 calf’s and 20 yearlings? He will be cutting silage elsewhere

cute geoge · 20-06-2021 11:07am

I have 10 strong calves on about 2 1/2 acres no ration and keeping it well cliped and I backfence anything they have eaten and move to fresh pick .You would work away this time of year but calves and yierlings growing will eat extra as they grow .I would say 20 calves would need 10 acres in the back end

Bass Reeves · 20-06-2021 11:38am

morphy87 wrote: »

A friend has 19 acres, good land he is currently reseeding it, he was thinking of rearing calf’s, if this was divided right and properly fertilized would he graze 20 calf’s and 20 yearlings? He will be cutting silage elsewhere

I say nearer 30 if he is selling them as stores. He should start offloading some stores in July/August to balance the grass. From March-late June calves will be eating little grass. Even yearlings compared to cows eat no grass

grassroot1 · 20-06-2021 11:47am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Ya I agree about those two things idiots, I say if you added there total number of brain cells you would struggle to get to two between them. They are just both old men that have not moved with the times.

Do you not think recoupling would re balance payments for those not farming in the reference years?

wrangler · 20-06-2021 11:58am

Jjameson wrote: »

I perceived suckler bred cattle to be better value than my usual middle of the road mix of fr and frx
bullocks last year and while financially I was correct in the sums the little extra left isn’t wort a ****e, the temperament of these hoors leaves it just not worth it.
Every time I go do anything with them there’s drama!
I supposed they do focus your mind on prayer!!
“Please God don’t let him jump that”
Ect....

The few goms I see pictured in the ifj looking to couple the few Bob we get handy from Europe to these hoors of animals for the benefit of a beef processing cartel should be sectioned.

I can relate to that.
The year we were changeing over to sheep it took me five weeks to get in the last batch of eighteen month old bullocks into the pen.
The bull that bred them could never be tested, he'd never let you touch him and wouldn't go into the crush..... otherwise he was alright, wouldn't challenge you or the dogs or anything like that....... provided you didn't corner him

blue5000 · 20-06-2021 2:39pm

wrangler wrote: »

I can relate to that.
The year we were changeing over to sheep it took me five weeks to get in the last batch of eighteen month old bullocks into the pen.
The bull that bred them could never be tested, he'd never let you touch him and wouldn't go into the crush..... otherwise he was alright, wouldn't challenge you or the dogs or anything like that....... provided you didn't corner him

+1
We managed to coax our lot into the yard a month ago and load 5 for the mart. Lad who took them in for me said one of them cleared a pen in the mart. They looked quiet on martbid, got a few bids so I didn't have to bring them home again. Haven't heard anything since so I'm guessing they haven't broke across the Shannon yet as the mart was on the far side.

Every generation is getting madder, they're fine with just me, but trying to do anything needs to be well thought out beforehand. Moved a bunch yesterday and a day old calf took off at a tangent under electric fences.......I'll keep ye posted;).

I think part of the problem with wild cattle is they're just not used to humans.

Hard Knocks · 20-06-2021 2:45pm

blue5000 wrote: »

I think part of the problem with wild cattle is they're just not used to humans.

Totally agree, also no harm getting someone else to walk through them every so often
That way they don’t get spooked when the see someone else

893bet · 20-06-2021 2:50pm

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Totally agree, also no harm getting someone else to walk through them every so often
That way they don’t get spooked when the see someone else

If working off farm you just don’t get to spend the same amount of time with cattle also.

Charolois 19 · 20-06-2021 2:55pm

Do ye think the more you have the wilder they might be? Was thinking about this before, I've a small herd, on a smaller sized farm, walk through them every day, ya can pet them, a whistle is all you need and they come running, will walk into the yard behind me, most of them will eat bread or Ash leaves out of my hand, on a bigger farm with more numbers sure it would be impossible to be in that kinda contact with big numbers, they not used to handling or close human contact, even found with a flighty one bought in she seems to settle down when she sees the rest of them coming up to me and that, could be wrong just was thinking to myself or what's others experience of smaller vrs bigger herds in temperament?

Hard Knocks · 20-06-2021 2:59pm

893bet wrote: »

If working off farm you just don’t get to spend the same amount of time with cattle also.

A few minutes every day is all it needs

Bass Reeves · 20-06-2021 4:04pm

grassroot1 wrote: »

Do you not think recoupling would re balance payments for those not farming in the reference years?

No it will trap farmers into stocking suckler's to draw down money. Yes for some it's more money but then we end up over producing beef for the processor's. The dairy X stock will still be there the Suckler numbers just add to them. As well look at lamb it has never been more profitable. Even hill lamb is coming back into vogue with store/ spring finished hogget prices. A 10 euro/ head and every lad will be keeping a few extra on mountains and next thing we have over supply. The day suckler numbers drop is the day there will be real money in beef again

Hard Knocks wrote: »

A few minutes every day is all it needs

I disagree totally. I go through my stick mist days. It's mostly Fr/ AA and HE. But if you have a few LM, Blondes, Salers etc they are the ones that will break a wire when you are using string or tape to move them. There the one that is always at the back of the bunch, the lad that will get stranded in a paddock after all the rest come out, the one that is jumping in the crush or sticks his head under the lad in front and will not come back so you can read his number.

There the one that if you have them cornered will charge through you

893bet · 20-06-2021 4:11pm

Hard Knocks wrote: »

A few minutes every day is all it needs

I don’t think so. Takes a lot more for properly quiet cattle. Takes proper walking through stock. Handling in the shed in the winter. Bucket feeding a poor milker in the field etc. Proper daily contact.

Plus breeding. One thing I have noticed from icbf is how accurate docility ratings can be.

minerleague · 20-06-2021 4:20pm

blue5000 wrote: »

+1
We managed to coax our lot into the yard a month ago and load 5 for the mart. Lad who took them in for me said one of them cleared a pen in the mart. They looked quiet on martbid, got a few bids so I didn't have to bring them home again. Haven't heard anything since so I'm guessing they haven't broke across the Shannon yet as the mart was on the far side.

Every generation is getting madder, they're fine with just me, but trying to do anything needs to be well thought out beforehand. Moved a bunch yesterday and a day old calf took off at a tangent under electric fences.......I'll keep ye posted;).

I think part of the problem with wild cattle is they're just not used to humans.

I would have agreed strongly with last part until i changed bull 2 years ago. Had previous Lim bull for 10 years ( fine calves all calm even in yard) New bulls calves fine out the field but pens, crush or even trying to get them in is a lot of trouble. I still herd cattle same as before so it cant be that.

Margins from suckler beef

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