250,000 Ton UK Export Market Gone

Bog Trotter99 · 17-06-2021 3:57pm #1

The UK just finalised and signed a deal with Australia which means they supply beef to the UK.

According to reports the UK imports 250,000 tons of beef every year from the EU. Approx 80% of that is Irish beef.

Next year those 250,000 tons will be slashed to approx 30,000 tons and reduced further.

All reports in UK news outlets. None in RTE or other. No talk here either.

Nobody knows......Nobody cares?

Lime Tree Farm · 17-06-2021 4:02pm

Yes, hormones in Aussie beef are giving UK consumers something to think about at the moment.

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2021/jun/06/nearly-half-of-australias-cattle-is-treated-with-growth-hormones-is-it-safe-to-eat

Bog Trotter99 · 17-06-2021 4:08pm

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

Yes, hormones in Aussie beef are giving UK consumers something to think about at the moment.

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2021/jun/06/nearly-half-of-australias-cattle-is-treated-with-growth-hormones-is-it-safe-to-eat

Well thats up to them, but my point is Irelands beef export market to the UK has now gone, because the Australia deal has just been signed.

tabby aspreme · 17-06-2021 6:36pm

Australian beef is the dearest globally at the moment, and that's before shipping costs, so no need to panic yet

Bog Trotter99 · 17-06-2021 6:58pm

The deals done. EU beef aint allowed on their shelves after this year.

grassroot1 · 17-06-2021 7:06pm

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

The deals done. EU beef aint allowed on their shelves after this year.

Are you sure about this?

Jim2007 · 17-06-2021 7:06pm

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Well thats up to them, but my point is Irelands beef export market to the UK has now gone, because the Australia deal has just been signed.

Try grounding your options in facts for a start!

The market is not gone, you just have a new competitor, one that is physically far a way, not as cheap as you think and not offering the same quality.

From the announcement of a trade deal to the point where trade flows smoothly takes years rather than overnight for a start.

And while you have a new competitor in the UK market, you just go preferential treatment on the 160 tones the UK used to export to the EU plus the new trade deals with Canada, Japan etc…

It will take years to see the impact of all these deals on the market, but it certainly will not be the 250k ton headless chicken dance you are suggesting, most likely it will have very little impact in the end.

Jim2007 · 17-06-2021 7:08pm

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

The deals done. EU beef aint allowed on their shelves after this year.

Baseless nonsense or provide a factual link, especially since it would breach WTO rules and the trade deal with the EU.

Bog Trotter99 · 17-06-2021 7:12pm

Jim2007 wrote: »

Try grounding your options in facts for a start!

The market is not gone, you just have a new competitor, one that is physically far a way, not as cheap as you think and not offering the same quality.

From the announcement of a trade deal to the point where trade flows smoothly takes years rather than overnight for a start.

And while you have a new competitor in the UK market, you just go preferential treatment on the 160 tones the UK used to export to the EU plus the new trade deals with Canada, Japan etc…

It will take years to see the impact of all these deals on the market, but it certainly will not be the 250k ton headless chicken dance you are suggesting, most likely it will have very little impact in the end.

Well if its as simple as that why have they spent months working out the deal and signing it today.

Read the UK news if it was just a case of .........."listen cobber just send a few tons over to us and we will see what we can do".

Bog Trotter99 · 17-06-2021 7:13pm

Jim2007 wrote: »

Baseless nonsense or provide a factual link, especially since it would breach WTO rules and the trade deal with the EU.

There is no trade with the EU. Havent you noticed they are all most by WTO at present.

Bog Trotter99 · 17-06-2021 7:14pm

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1451131/Brexit-news-latest-UK-Australia-trade-deal-British-beef-liz-truss

One of many go look yourselves.

Bog Trotter99 · 17-06-2021 7:16pm

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1450512/Brexit-news-eu-beef-exports-uk-post-brexit-australia-free-trade-deal-liz-truss-politics-vn

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/06/15/britain-accept-flood-australian-beef-landmark-trade-deal/

Too_Old_Boots · 17-06-2021 7:16pm

I wonder can the EU now revisit the quotas for New Zealand.
New Zealand has a fixed EU quota of 1300 tonnes of beef and 228,000 tonne of lamb which harps back to when britain join the EU.
idk what the quota for Australia is but its time to start evening out the playing field.
On the plus side, it would be a good time to take the UK share of processed/cooked foods that go into the EU now that they will have Australian beef in the system they will not be able to supply into the EU themselves.
Also it would be a good time for the Irish beef industry to go Organic and also reduce the herd size and move to a more premium product, ontop of which they should be eligible for EU support to do this since they would be losing the UK market

Bog Trotter99 · 17-06-2021 7:18pm

Jim2007 wrote: »

It will take years to see the impact of all these deals on the market, but it certainly will not be the 250k ton headless chicken dance you are suggesting, most likely it will have very little impact in the end.

End of this year according to Liz Truss a UK Gove minister who has co signed the deal..

Of course if you are better informed we can all rest easy.

17-06-2021 7:32pm

Bog, you are very wound up, go for a walk and get some fresh air.

Bog Trotter99 · 17-06-2021 7:36pm

Mayo_fan wrote: »

Bog, you are very wound up, go for a walk and get some fresh air.

I'm cool. I'm not a beef farmer.

I just wondered why when this was in the UK news why isn't in the RTE news or you lot talking of it. But I see of tonight the Irish farmers groups are getting very vocal about it in tonights Irish news sites.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/arid-40316342.html

HalfAndHalf · 17-06-2021 7:53pm

Too_Old_Boots wrote: »

I wonder can the EU now revisit the quotas for New Zealand.
New Zealand has a fixed EU quota of 1300 tonnes of beef and 228,000 tonne of lamb which harps back to when britain join the EU.
idk what the quota for Australia is but its time to start evening out the playing field.
On the plus side, it would be a good time to take the UK share of processed/cooked foods that go into the EU now that they will have Australian beef in the system they will not be able to supply into the EU themselves.
Also it would be a good time for the Irish beef industry to go Organic and also reduce the herd size and move to a more premium product, ontop of which they should be eligible for EU support to do this since they would be losing the UK market

Jesus, read the Brexit thread and the U.K. are screwed and tough now they’re a third country! One deal and there’s calls for evening up the playing field. Way to play into the Brexiteers hands of EU bullies!

And what’s this processed meats so can’t sell to the EU, sure they’ll just use their own livestock for that!

Cavanjack · 17-06-2021 8:01pm

Will that beef not have to come to the Uk frozen? That would surely lessen its value.

Too_Old_Boots · 17-06-2021 8:06pm

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Jesus, read the Brexit thread and the U.K. are screwed and tough now they’re a third country! One deal and there’s calls for evening up the playing field. Way to play into the Brexiteers hands of EU bullies!

And what’s this processed meats so can’t sell to the EU, sure they’ll just use their own livestock for that!

Not a chance that would wash.
In reality it's going to do as much harm to the UK farmers if not more. Their beef is going to be seen as hormone infested Gazel meat now too.
Once you let imported beef in then your beef is then classed as the same.

Too_Old_Boots · 17-06-2021 8:09pm

Cavanjack wrote: »

Will that beef not have to come to the Uk frozen? That would surely lessen its value.

No, it comes in chilled containers, probably just carcass beef unprocessed for Larry's factories in the UK.

HalfAndHalf · 17-06-2021 8:11pm

Too_Old_Boots wrote: »

Not a chance that would wash.
In reality it's going to do as much harm to the UK farmers if not more. Their beef is going to be seen as hormone infested Gazel meat now too.
Once you let imported beef in then your beef is then classed as the same.

You’ve completely missed my point but I think you know that too! LOL.

Also the U.K. imported 1766 tonnes of Aussie beef in 2019 and doesn’t appear to have done them any harm.

Bog Trotter99 · 17-06-2021 8:15pm

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

You’ve completely missed my point but I think you know that too! LOL.

Ok blah blah blah.

But where does that leave O'Malley with his prized herd of Angus ready to go January 2022?

HalfAndHalf · 17-06-2021 8:16pm

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Ok blah blah blah.

But where does that leave O'Malley with his prized herd of Angus ready to go January 2022?

What are you even giving out about. What i said hasn’t got a thing to do with what you’re angry posting about!

Also, I wasn’t even talking to you! It’s quite obvious you’re up for arguing with everyone, I’m not interested thanks.

Too_Old_Boots · 17-06-2021 8:21pm

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

You’ve completely missed my point but I think you know that too! LOL.

Also the U.K. imported 1766 tonnes of Aussie beef in 2019 and doesn’t appear to have done them any harm.

I think I have missed your point sorry.
Probably nothing wrong with Aussie beef, idk is hormone beef healthy, there must be something about it.

knipex · 17-06-2021 8:41pm

Bog Trotter99 wrote:

Well thats up to them, but my point is Irelands beef export market to the UK has now gone, because the Australia deal has just been signed.

This has been coming since the Brexit vote. Why are you so shocked ??

You can still sell to UK but you have to compete with Australian beef.

Bog Trotter99 · 17-06-2021 9:19pm

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

What are you even giving out about. What i said hasn’t got a thing to do with what you’re angry posting about!

Also, I wasn’t even talking to you! It’s quite obvious you’re up for arguing with everyone, I’m not interested thanks.

Hey that was an error on my part. I was I thought quoting the poster you was.

I'm not arguing anything. Just wondering why a UK obsessed Irish media has not mentioned a thing about this.

bogman_bass · 17-06-2021 9:21pm

Too_Old_Boots wrote: »

No, it comes in chilled containers, probably just carcass beef unprocessed for Larry's factories in the UK.

40 days for a container to get from oz to UK.
Long time for the chiller no?

HalfAndHalf · 17-06-2021 9:48pm

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Hey that was an error on my part. I was I thought quoting the poster you was.

I'm not arguing anything. Just wondering why a UK obsessed Irish media has not mentioned a thing about this.

Because it isn’t good news.

U.K. delays ending lockdown restrictions, top of RTE. U.K. cases rise due to delta variant, top of RTE. Increased travel restrictions for passengers from the U.K., top of RTE.
DUP in tatters in the North, breaking news and top of RTE.

Bad news because U.K. signs trade deal with Oz……SSSSHHHHHHHHHH

This is how MSM works.

Base price · 17-06-2021 9:49pm

Cavanjack wrote: »

Will that beef not have to come to the Uk frozen? That would surely lessen its value.

I presume so same as NZ legs of lamb comes in here which are glorified turkey legs. I have bought turkey legs that were larger and had more meat on them.

Too_Old_Boots · 17-06-2021 9:52pm

bogman_bass wrote: »

40 days for a container to get from oz to UK.
Long time for the chiller no?

Yes it is,
I know the south American stuff was coming in chilled carcass form up to 21 days hanging.
They will probably go down the route of vacuum packed which is good for 12 -14 weeks max.
Either way it'll a poorer standard of beef by the time its on the plate. Might be good enough for Burgers etc and thats a large part of the market

Base price · 17-06-2021 10:20pm

I don't think we have to worry about it too much for the next few years as at the moment Australia has currently one of the highest beef/cattle prices in the world. Unfortunately (for beef farmers) due to their unpredictable weather beef/cattle prices sway between high & low extremes.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-14/how-high-can-cattle-prices-go-in-year-of-the-ox/13134676

Edit to add - It's great to see so many new posters contributing on Farming and Forestry - that's what makes it one of the most popular forums on Boards.

Donald Trump · 18-06-2021 1:03am

Donald Trump · 18-06-2021 1:03am

Base price wrote: »

Edit to add - It's great to see so many new posters contributing on Farming and Forestry - that's what makes it one of the most popular forums on Boards.

Feckin' blow-ins :pac:

joke

Bog Trotter99 · 18-06-2021 2:56am

Too_Old_Boots wrote: »

Yes it is,
I know the south American stuff was coming in chilled carcass form up to 21 days hanging.
They will probably go down the route of vacuum packed which is good for 12 -14 weeks max.
Either way it'll a poorer standard of beef by the time its on the plate. Might be good enough for Burgers etc and thats a large part of the market

So isn't that where the UK home produced takes care of the 'fresh' supply?

Bog Trotter99 · 18-06-2021 3:10am

Base price wrote: »

I don't think we have to worry about it too much for the next few years as at the moment Australia has currently one of the highest beef/cattle prices in the world. Unfortunately (for beef farmers) due to their unpredictable weather beef/cattle prices sway between high & low extremes.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-14/how-high-can-cattle-prices-go-in-year-of-the-ox/13134676

Edit to add - It's great to see so many new posters contributing on Farming and Forestry - that's what makes it one of the most popular forums on Boards.

Well if someone sits down with another for weeks or months to work out a deal, I imagine that some arrangements were made.

I doubt it was ever something like ...'sure send over a few containers full and we will see how it goes'.

Possibly something like........'ok we have 250,000 tons off EU ever year. As from January 2022, we will only let 30,000 tons of their beef into our ports and you Mr Aussie man, send us 220,000 tons and we will accept it all'.

The UK ain't gonna say .....'send 220,000 tons and we will send back what we don't sell because some Irish fella might do his a bit cheaper'.

If it takes 4 weeks to travel, the Aussie's aren't going to take the risk and have to turn the boats around when they get off Cornwall. They will want it written in stone with blood that their 220,000 tons will be accepted and paid for when it gets to UK .....AND .....that no other countries beef is going to be accepted.

I also imagine that could be why UK farmers are a little concerned. If they are, then I would have thought the present suppliers of beef should be even more concerned?

Jim2007 · 18-06-2021 5:14am

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Well if its as simple as that why have they spent months working out the deal and signing it today.

Read the UK news if it was just a case of .........."listen cobber just send a few tons over to us and we will see what we can do".

Trade deals set out the terms of trade and that is all. It then up to the commercial interests put the infrastructure in place, source the product, negotiate the contracts, set up the operations etc… it takes several years to put this in place.

As for the British press, most of it is click bait and far from a reliable source of information.

Jim2007 · 18-06-2021 5:26am

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

There is no trade with the EU. Havent you noticed they are all most by WTO at present.

Your opinion is not a fact, so you have just confirmed you assertion was base less.

Of course the continues tb trade with the EU, that’s just nonsense.

Do you know what the UK WTO terms are? It zero tariff on most goods imported from the 156 WTO members including the EU. While the EU standard is 7%.

Are you now going to claim you are some disadvantaged by being charged zero tariff?

Also WTO terms prevent your claim about EU beef not being on the selfs as well, just something else you ignored

Bog Trotter99 · 18-06-2021 5:29am

Jim2007 wrote: »

Trade deals set out the terms of trade and that is all. It then up to the commercial interests put the infrastructure in place, source the product, negotiate the contracts, set up the operations etc… it takes several years to put this in place.

As for the British press, most of it is click bait and far from a reliable source of information.

Yes some press do go over the top. But then at least you find stuff out where as some Irish press only print pro EU or anti British news or not at all.

Bog Trotter99 · 18-06-2021 5:30am

Jim2007 wrote: »

Your opinion is not a fact, so you have just confirmed you assertion was base less.

Of course the continues tb trade with the EU, that’s just nonsense.

Do you know what the UK WTO terms are? It zero tariff on most goods imported from the 156 WTO members including the EU. While the EU standard is 7%.

Are you now going to claim you are some disadvantaged by being charged zero tariff?

I meant trade deal. The trade deal has yet to be implemented with the EU and there is a calls to rip it up over NI.

Bog Trotter99 · 18-06-2021 5:33am

Jim2007 wrote: »

Also WTO terms prevent your claim about EU beef not being on the selfs as well, just something else you ignored

I have never said that. I just put the info of the news reports and always said what they said of approx 30,000 tons of EU beef.

Of course if you know better you should write for those news outlets and put them all right. You wasting your time with me.

You are arguing with me when I have just repeated the news reports. Give them a call and tell them.

Danzy · 18-06-2021 5:35am

Bog, you are really running with this one.

Bog Trotter99 · 18-06-2021 5:36am

Danzy wrote: »

Bog, you are really running with this one.

Nah I'm out. I will leave you to it.

893bet · 18-06-2021 8:51am

Remember the big hoooo hawwww about South American beef not to long ago?

World didnt collapse.

Jim2007 · 18-06-2021 11:18am

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Yes some press do go over the top. But then at least you find stuff out where as some Irish press only print pro EU or anti British news or not at all.

Go and read the actual documents and stop repeating sound bytes.

Jim2007 · 18-06-2021 11:21am

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

I meant trade deal. The trade deal has yet to be implemented with the EU and there is a calls to rip it up over NI.

Even without the trade deal you still get WTO terms at the very least, which in the case of the UK is for the main part zero tariffs.

Jim2007 · 18-06-2021 11:24am

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

I have never said that. I just put the info of the news reports and always said what they said of approx 30,000 tons of EU beef.

Of course if you know better you should write for those news outlets and put them all right. You wasting your time with me.

You are arguing with me when I have just repeated the news reports. Give them a call and tell them.

So we’ve come to the end of your baseless nonsense then…

You need to stop relying on click bait as a source of information and go to the actual documents for reliable information.

893bet · 18-06-2021 11:39am

Jim2007 wrote: »

So we’ve come to the end of your baseless nonsense then…

You need to stop relying on click bait as a source of information and go to the actual documents for reliable information.

This. Being accurate doesn’t sell news papers.

If Australia, who already have expensive beef prices, can move there beef all the way around the world and be cheaper than Ireland. Then yeah we have a problem.

Hard to see that being the case.

Bog Trotter99 · 18-06-2021 11:42am

Jim2007 wrote: »

So we’ve come to the end of your baseless nonsense then…

You need to stop relying on click bait as a source of information and go to the actual documents for reliable information.

Jeez.

I put the results of a UK news report here and asked why nothing in Irish media.

First of all you complain about no links...........so I put them.

Then you say they are not to be believed because they are all as you say 'click bait'. That also must mean the several Irish ones since who say similar plus the interviews with UK farmers and also Youtube videos on same.........according to you.

Now you claim to know all about the deal and must I assume by your statement have read the actual documents.

Not to mention that you claim there there is some kind of 'right' of WTO rules. In which case if correct it would be pointless making any other agreement with other countries as these WTO rules could always top and oversee. Or I am totally confused at what you are banging on about.

The UK is not part of the EU and can operate by their own rules with who they like regardless of price, conditions or anything else. If the UK want to buy pristine gold covered steak or maggot infested burgers it is up to them and no 'WTO' rules can make any difference.

I came here because I couldn't understand why no news at the time in Irish media and to see if you lot knew anything of it, which you didnt yesterday .........including yourself.

As I said earlier if you have priviliged info and have access to private documents of meeting between countries.........then you go ahead and call up the media and correct them on their as you call it.....'click bait'.

You are wasting your time with me. I couldn't give a toss. It was curiosity that bought me here.

Donald Trump · 18-06-2021 11:54am

Jim2007, it's a little more nuanced than just tariffs. Food safety standards and regulations in Ireland for animal welfare and environmental concerns are (rightly) fairly onerous and expensive to keep in line with.

There is no sense to an Irish consumer supporting regulations, for example, making farmers fence off buffer zones to keep animals away from streams and also imposing capital infrastructure requirements such as having to reroute roadways or upgrade them to slope in a certain direction, if at the same time you are going to allow open access to foreign beef which does not have those requirements.

For the Brazilian beef farmer, sustainability of their operation might simply mean investing in a boxes of matches so that they can move on when the current land is exhausted.

Similarly, the UK farmer is now faced with potential competition from a competitor which does not have to operate under the same restrictions. And while you can argue about marketing things as being premium products etc., that does not often hold up when it comes to food. The Irish farmer exporting into the UK will probably not be able to compete on price with third country beef. There is also the issue of the multiples and the logistical supply chains too. The likes of Tesco have large control over the market and there might be only certain entry points to get into that chain. So it's not 100% a "free market"

Now, I don't think it's Armageddon. Am just pointing out that there are genuine basis for concerns.

listermint · 18-06-2021 1:07pm

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Jeez.

I put the results of a UK news report here and asked why nothing in Irish media.

First of all you complain about no links...........so I put them.

Then you say they are not to be believed because they are all as you say 'click bait'. That also must mean the several Irish ones since who say similar plus the interviews with UK farmers and also Youtube videos on same.........according to you.

Now you claim to know all about the deal and must I assume by your statement have read the actual documents.

Not to mention that you claim there there is some kind of 'right' of WTO rules. In which case if correct it would be pointless making any other agreement with other countries as these WTO rules could always top and oversee. Or I am totally confused at what you are banging on about.

The UK is not part of the EU and can operate by their own rules with who they like regardless of price, conditions or anything else. If the UK want to buy pristine gold covered steak or maggot infested burgers it is up to them and no 'WTO' rules can make any difference.

I came here because I couldn't understand why no news at the time in Irish media and to see if you lot knew anything of it, which you didnt yesterday .........including yourself.

As I said earlier if you have priviliged info and have access to private documents of meeting between countries.........then you go ahead and call up the media and correct them on their as you call it.....'click bait'.

You are wasting your time with me. I couldn't give a toss. It was curiosity that bought me here.

You should go and read up on stuff like WTO before you make unresearched Statements as fact.

Bog Trotter99 · 18-06-2021 1:13pm

listermint wrote: »

You should go and read up on stuff like WTO before you make unresearched Statements as fact.

My point Listermint is that if someone wants to do something then they will do it. Rules only apply if you want to abide by them. It is not compulsory to 'have' to trade with someone or 'accept' what they offer.

250,000 Ton UK Export Market Gone

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