250,000 Ton UK Export Market Gone

Donald Trump

Donald Trump

Base price wrote: »

Edit to add - It's great to see so many new posters contributing on Farming and Forestry - that's what makes it one of the most popular forums on Boards.

Feckin' blow-ins :pac:










joke

Bog Trotter99

Too_Old_Boots wrote: »

Yes it is,
I know the south American stuff was coming in chilled carcass form up to 21 days hanging.
They will probably go down the route of vacuum packed which is good for 12 -14 weeks max.
Either way it'll a poorer standard of beef by the time its on the plate. Might be good enough for Burgers etc and thats a large part of the market

So isn't that where the UK home produced takes care of the 'fresh' supply?

Bog Trotter99

Base price wrote: »

I don't think we have to worry about it too much for the next few years as at the moment Australia has currently one of the highest beef/cattle prices in the world. Unfortunately (for beef farmers) due to their unpredictable weather beef/cattle prices sway between high & low extremes.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-14/how-high-can-cattle-prices-go-in-year-of-the-ox/13134676

Edit to add - It's great to see so many new posters contributing on Farming and Forestry - that's what makes it one of the most popular forums on Boards.

Well if someone sits down with another for weeks or months to work out a deal, I imagine that some arrangements were made.

I doubt it was ever something like ...'sure send over a few containers full and we will see how it goes'.

Possibly something like........'ok we have 250,000 tons off EU ever year. As from January 2022, we will only let 30,000 tons of their beef into our ports and you Mr Aussie man, send us 220,000 tons and we will accept it all'.

The UK ain't gonna say .....'send 220,000 tons and we will send back what we don't sell because some Irish fella might do his a bit cheaper'.

If it takes 4 weeks to travel, the Aussie's aren't going to take the risk and have to turn the boats around when they get off Cornwall. They will want it written in stone with blood that their 220,000 tons will be accepted and paid for when it gets to UK .....AND .....that no other countries beef is going to be accepted.

I also imagine that could be why UK farmers are a little concerned. If they are, then I would have thought the present suppliers of beef should be even more concerned?

Jim2007

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Well if its as simple as that why have they spent months working out the deal and signing it today.

Read the UK news if it was just a case of .........."listen cobber just send a few tons over to us and we will see what we can do".

Trade deals set out the terms of trade and that is all. It then up to the commercial interests put the infrastructure in place, source the product, negotiate the contracts, set up the operations etc… it takes several years to put this in place.

As for the British press, most of it is click bait and far from a reliable source of information.

Jim2007

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

There is no trade with the EU. Havent you noticed they are all most by WTO at present.

Your opinion is not a fact, so you have just confirmed you assertion was base less.

Of course the continues tb trade with the EU, that’s just nonsense.

Do you know what the UK WTO terms are? It zero tariff on most goods imported from the 156 WTO members including the EU. While the EU standard is 7%.

Are you now going to claim you are some disadvantaged by being charged zero tariff?

Also WTO terms prevent your claim about EU beef not being on the selfs as well, just something else you ignored

Bog Trotter99

Jim2007 wrote: »

Trade deals set out the terms of trade and that is all. It then up to the commercial interests put the infrastructure in place, source the product, negotiate the contracts, set up the operations etc… it takes several years to put this in place.

As for the British press, most of it is click bait and far from a reliable source of information.

Yes some press do go over the top. But then at least you find stuff out where as some Irish press only print pro EU or anti British news or not at all.

Bog Trotter99

Jim2007 wrote: »

Your opinion is not a fact, so you have just confirmed you assertion was base less.

Of course the continues tb trade with the EU, that’s just nonsense.

Do you know what the UK WTO terms are? It zero tariff on most goods imported from the 156 WTO members including the EU. While the EU standard is 7%.

Are you now going to claim you are some disadvantaged by being charged zero tariff?

I meant trade deal. The trade deal has yet to be implemented with the EU and there is a calls to rip it up over NI.

Bog Trotter99

Jim2007 wrote: »

Also WTO terms prevent your claim about EU beef not being on the selfs as well, just something else you ignored

I have never said that. I just put the info of the news reports and always said what they said of approx 30,000 tons of EU beef.

Of course if you know better you should write for those news outlets and put them all right. You wasting your time with me.

You are arguing with me when I have just repeated the news reports. Give them a call and tell them.

Danzy

Bog, you are really running with this one.

Bog Trotter99

Danzy wrote: »

Bog, you are really running with this one.

Nah I'm out. I will leave you to it.

893bet

Remember the big hoooo hawwww about South American beef not to long ago?

World didnt collapse.

Jim2007

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Yes some press do go over the top. But then at least you find stuff out where as some Irish press only print pro EU or anti British news or not at all.

Go and read the actual documents and stop repeating sound bytes.

Jim2007

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

I meant trade deal. The trade deal has yet to be implemented with the EU and there is a calls to rip it up over NI.

Even without the trade deal you still get WTO terms at the very least, which in the case of the UK is for the main part zero tariffs.

Jim2007

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

I have never said that. I just put the info of the news reports and always said what they said of approx 30,000 tons of EU beef.

Of course if you know better you should write for those news outlets and put them all right. You wasting your time with me.

You are arguing with me when I have just repeated the news reports. Give them a call and tell them.

So we’ve come to the end of your baseless nonsense then…

You need to stop relying on click bait as a source of information and go to the actual documents for reliable information.

893bet

Jim2007 wrote: »

So we’ve come to the end of your baseless nonsense then…

You need to stop relying on click bait as a source of information and go to the actual documents for reliable information.

This. Being accurate doesn’t sell news papers.

If Australia, who already have expensive beef prices, can move there beef all the way around the world and be cheaper than Ireland. Then yeah we have a problem.

Hard to see that being the case.

Bog Trotter99

Jim2007 wrote: »

So we’ve come to the end of your baseless nonsense then…

You need to stop relying on click bait as a source of information and go to the actual documents for reliable information.

Jeez.

I put the results of a UK news report here and asked why nothing in Irish media.

First of all you complain about no links...........so I put them.

Then you say they are not to be believed because they are all as you say 'click bait'. That also must mean the several Irish ones since who say similar plus the interviews with UK farmers and also Youtube videos on same.........according to you.

Now you claim to know all about the deal and must I assume by your statement have read the actual documents.

Not to mention that you claim there there is some kind of 'right' of WTO rules. In which case if correct it would be pointless making any other agreement with other countries as these WTO rules could always top and oversee. Or I am totally confused at what you are banging on about.

The UK is not part of the EU and can operate by their own rules with who they like regardless of price, conditions or anything else. If the UK want to buy pristine gold covered steak or maggot infested burgers it is up to them and no 'WTO' rules can make any difference.

I came here because I couldn't understand why no news at the time in Irish media and to see if you lot knew anything of it, which you didnt yesterday .........including yourself.

As I said earlier if you have priviliged info and have access to private documents of meeting between countries.........then you go ahead and call up the media and correct them on their as you call it.....'click bait'.

You are wasting your time with me. I couldn't give a toss. It was curiosity that bought me here.

Donald Trump

Jim2007, it's a little more nuanced than just tariffs. Food safety standards and regulations in Ireland for animal welfare and environmental concerns are (rightly) fairly onerous and expensive to keep in line with.

There is no sense to an Irish consumer supporting regulations, for example, making farmers fence off buffer zones to keep animals away from streams and also imposing capital infrastructure requirements such as having to reroute roadways or upgrade them to slope in a certain direction, if at the same time you are going to allow open access to foreign beef which does not have those requirements.

For the Brazilian beef farmer, sustainability of their operation might simply mean investing in a boxes of matches so that they can move on when the current land is exhausted.

Similarly, the UK farmer is now faced with potential competition from a competitor which does not have to operate under the same restrictions. And while you can argue about marketing things as being premium products etc., that does not often hold up when it comes to food. The Irish farmer exporting into the UK will probably not be able to compete on price with third country beef. There is also the issue of the multiples and the logistical supply chains too. The likes of Tesco have large control over the market and there might be only certain entry points to get into that chain. So it's not 100% a "free market"

Now, I don't think it's Armageddon. Am just pointing out that there are genuine basis for concerns.

listermint

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Jeez.

I put the results of a UK news report here and asked why nothing in Irish media.

First of all you complain about no links...........so I put them.

Then you say they are not to be believed because they are all as you say 'click bait'. That also must mean the several Irish ones since who say similar plus the interviews with UK farmers and also Youtube videos on same.........according to you.

Now you claim to know all about the deal and must I assume by your statement have read the actual documents.

Not to mention that you claim there there is some kind of 'right' of WTO rules. In which case if correct it would be pointless making any other agreement with other countries as these WTO rules could always top and oversee. Or I am totally confused at what you are banging on about.

The UK is not part of the EU and can operate by their own rules with who they like regardless of price, conditions or anything else. If the UK want to buy pristine gold covered steak or maggot infested burgers it is up to them and no 'WTO' rules can make any difference.

I came here because I couldn't understand why no news at the time in Irish media and to see if you lot knew anything of it, which you didnt yesterday .........including yourself.

As I said earlier if you have priviliged info and have access to private documents of meeting between countries.........then you go ahead and call up the media and correct them on their as you call it.....'click bait'.

You are wasting your time with me. I couldn't give a toss. It was curiosity that bought me here.

You should go and read up on stuff like WTO before you make unresearched Statements as fact.

Bog Trotter99

listermint wrote: »

You should go and read up on stuff like WTO before you make unresearched Statements as fact.

My point Listermint is that if someone wants to do something then they will do it. Rules only apply if you want to abide by them. It is not compulsory to 'have' to trade with someone or 'accept' what they offer.

Jim2007

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

My point Listermint is that if someone wants to do something then they will do it. Rules only apply if you want to abide by them. It is not compulsory to 'have' to trade with someone or 'accept' what they offer.

Look you clearly have no interest in dealing with reality beyond the tabloids, if you’d even do a little research you realize how off your statements are.

Off course the rules are important and the sanctions that can be applied can have significant impacts on an economy. The only reason the UK never walked away from negotiations is because they couldn’t afford to take the consequences, the only reason Boris accepted the NI protocol is because he had little choice.

Since all you do is parrot the UK press, there is little point in a discussion.

I think the OP needs to get some rest, been shouting this topic non stop for the last 24hrs including posts at 1am, 3am and 5am. Bizzare stuff for someone who claims not to be a farmer and neither care.

Bog Trotter99

Mayo_fan wrote: »

I think the OP needs to get some rest, been shouting this topic non stop for the last 24hrs including posts at 1am, 3am and 5am. Bizzare stuff for someone who claims not to be a farmer and neither care.

Again others alter what I say to suit. But you are correct on care. Work away.

Bog Trotter99

Jim2007 wrote: »

Off course the rules are important and the sanctions that can be applied can have significant impacts on an economy. The only reason the UK never walked away from negotiations is because they couldn’t afford to take the consequences, the only reason Boris accepted the NI protocol is because he had little choice.

Where we off to now?

knipex

You seem to be misunderstanding how trade agreements work.

The deal with OZ does not guarantee them a price, or that someone will even buy their beef.

It allows then to export an agreed quantity of a product at an agreed tariff to compete in that market.

That's it.. That is all.

Once it's here it's up to them to sell it for whatever price they can get..

Bass Reeves

knipex wrote: »

The deal with OZ does not guarantee them a price, or that someone will even buy their beef.

It allows then to export an agreed quantity of a product at an agreed tariff to compete in that market.

That's it.. That is all.
..

That it in a nutshell. The agreement is it allows Australia to export that much beef into the UK. It will not mean that it can and will be imported. Australia has expensive beef when I was over there it was more expensive than Irish Beef yet the export price indicated it was much lower.

A lot of beef in Australia is sold by a quality grade. It fairly similar to the US. Because a lot of beef is feedlot finished the feedlots can struggle to finish all cattle out of feedlots. A lot of beef especially cows are often culled during drought and the quality can vary.

It was explained to me by an Australian farmer. If you cull cows at what would be our FS1&2 at 250 kg carcasses this beef could be bought for 1-2 euro/ kg (2-3 Aussie dollars) these would be Q5 cows however at the same time quality finished cows fs4 weighting 400 kgs DW could be making 4 euro/ kg these would be Q1 or Q2 cows

All the poorer quality stuff gets exported this drags down there export price. At present in Australia we are seeing the effect of 2-3 years drought and last summer's wildfires. Quality beef which the UK market requires is by no means cheap.

The J Stands for Jay

The two sources linked are from a newspaper policitcallynl aligned to UKIP, and another who's editors have personal links to the Tory party. No possible bias there.

Too_Old_Boots

knipex wrote: »

You seem to be misunderstanding how trade agreements work.

The deal with OZ does not guarantee them a price, or that someone will even buy their beef.

It allows then to export an agreed quantity of a product at an agreed tariff to compete in that market.

That's it.. That is all.

Once it's here it's up to them to sell it for whatever price they can get..

No that's not it in the Nutshell
The problem is (For both Irish and UK farmers) the standards set are much higher here. The paper work, the rules etc.
Standards in Aussi-land are a joke compared with EU/UK. Little to no traceability, little to no regulation and policing of Veterinary medicines administered to the animals.
Hormones OK
No age limits
Sub standard animal welfare standards

So basically Johnsons Brexit crew have thrown farmers under the bus

Too_Old_Boots

Too_Old_Boots wrote: »

No that's not it in the Nutshell
The problem is (For both Irish and UK farmers) the standards set are much higher here. The paper work, the rules etc.
Standards in Aussi-land are a joke compared with EU/UK. Little to no traceability, little to no regulation and policing of Veterinary medicines administered to the animals.
Hormones OK
No age limits
Sub standard animal welfare standards

So basically Johnsons Brexit crew have thrown farmers under the bus

Could end up that quality UK beef gets cheaper as a result of pressure from cheap aussie imports and is bought by fast food outlets etc here.

You regularly hear stories of cheap meat already making its way from south america to ireland.

I think teagasc should be coming up with alternatives to beef and dairy for smaller operators that want to stay farming.

knipex

Too_Old_Boots wrote:

No that's not it in the Nutshell

It kind of is..

Too_Old_Boots wrote:

The problem is (For both Irish and UK farmers) the standards set are much higher here. The paper work, the rules etc. Standards in Aussi-land are a joke compared with EU/UK. Little to no traceability, little to no regulation and policing of Veterinary medicines administered to the animals. Hormones OK No age limits Sub standard animal welfare standards

Why are you surprised ??

This isnt news.Its been coming since the brexit vote. The UK didn't align with EU food standards specifically to allow trade deals like this. It wasnt a secret..