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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Comments

  • #6602
    robbiezero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    gozunda wrote: »
    Its a question.

    I believe you suggested March as the point where events should have been trialled- here

    So again "Are you saying we should have been less cautious than the UK and held trials in March a full month and a half before they did?

    With the specific "trials" that we conducted, Yes. I don't know the details of the UK trials and if they were similar to the pointless rubbish we are doing. Maybe they actually did sensible worthwhile trials.


  • #6603
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    ecoli3136 wrote: »
    None of it. But you did not directly state it was a cockup by NPHET. You said it came from the WHO. I think it is a poor choice for you to suggest anyone imply or deduce anything from your posts. Anyway, NPHET made a cock-up, as you say. You have made that clear and I agree with you.Can you tell us of any other mistakes NPHET made or are making or is this a unique incident?

    It most certainly came from the WHOs guidance

    I generally think of people here having at least half decent comprehension skills and not needing everything spelled out in simplified language. But no matter. This was my comment.
    Well tbf that cockup came from the WHOs guidance at the time 

    And following their guidance We got it wrong. The UK got it wrong. The EU got it wrong.

    Personally I believe masks should have been brought in regardless of the WHOs stance at the time.

    Ah I see you now want to translate that into yet another general Nphet rant. Dont let me stop you.

    Off you go. :pac:


  • #6604
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    robbiezero wrote: »
    With the specific "trials" that we conducted, Yes. I don't know the details of the UK trials and if they were similar to the pointless rubbish we are doing. Maybe they actually did sensible worthwhile trials.

    OK. Funnily enough the first UK event trialed was to be limited to just 300 people at a comedy club in Liverpool on April 16. (This event was cancelled)


  • #6605
    zackory
    Closed Accounts Posts: 324 ✭✭zackory


    gozunda wrote: »
    Its a question.

    I believe you suggested March as the point where events should have been trialled- here

    So again "Are you saying we should have been less cautious than the UK and held trials in March a full month and a half before they did?

    Absolutely should have been trialling things around late March. Around Paddys day / Cheltenham / Easter is when most of my circle decided to ease restrictions ourselves and arrange various gatherings which took place in houses, gardens, take away pints etc. Nothing major but people all around started getting on with life again.

    The government could have started trials, definately by Easter, when people had taken the initative anyway (takeaway pints were kicking off by then)

    Instead they buried their heads in the sand, having trial events would have given people hope and showed people that progress was being made etc.


  • #6606
    paddyisreal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    The end is nigh for Tony and co... The tide has turned at last even Simon Harris a nphet lapdog is making noises.
    Great to see.
    As I said Houlihan performance yesterday was as arrogant as John delaney.


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  • #6607
    OwenM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 859 ✭✭✭OwenM


    gozunda wrote: »
    Its a question.

    I believe you suggested March as the point where events should have been trialled- here

    So again "Are you saying we should have been less cautious than the UK and held trials in March a full month and a half before they did?

    There is no reason that farcical covid theatre at Iveagh House could not have been held in March or at any other time during the pandemic. It neither tested nor proved anything.


  • #6608
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    normanoffside wrote: »
    NPHET ignore plenty of WHO advice when it suits them

    Tbf - many countries globally are increasingly ignoring WHOs "advice". Much of it which seems politically derived - like their refusal to sanction any shut down of travel from China and which led to much of the **** show we've experienced over the last year and a half.


  • #6609
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,419 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    OwenM wrote: »
    There is no reason that farcical covid theatre at Iveagh House could not have been held in March or at any other time during the pandemic. It neither tested nor proved anything.

    The pilots are being used primarily to develop a framework for the industry and organizers going forward.

    Which they seem quite happy about.


  • #6610
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,134 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Boggles wrote: »
    The pilots are being used primarily to develop a framework for the industry and organizers going forward.

    Which they seem quite happy about.

    Pilot events make perfect sense. As you say, it gives organisers a chance to refine processes and procedures. That said, I'm not sure what anyone learned from the IG event. Unless, this that is the model to be deployed at upcoming events over the next number of months. If that is the case, then best of luck to them, as that looked like a painful experience for all involved.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #6611
    zackory
    Closed Accounts Posts: 324 ✭✭zackory


    Boggles wrote: »
    The pilots are being used primarily to develop a framework for the industry and organizers going forward.

    Which they seem quite happy about.

    Could have done them in March too, so that they would be good to go now.

    What framework is there for ~3000 people on Ballybunion beach a few Sundays ago or Tonys Jones Road event.

    Publicly organisers / representative bodies will say the right thing but in private they are throwing their eyes up to heaven.


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  • #6612
    zackory
    Closed Accounts Posts: 324 ✭✭zackory


    JRant wrote: »
    Pilot events make perfect sense. As you say, it gives organisers a chance to refine processes and procedures. That said, I'm not sure what anyone learned from the IG event. Unless, this that is the model to be deployed at upcoming events over the next number of months. If that is the case, then best of luck to them, as that looked like a painful experience for all involved.

    Big hotels have been hosting large numbers indoors, for several hours, since the start of June.

    Spacing 1 metre. Groups of 6. Indoors.

    What is the fcuking point of pods of 4, 2 metres spacing, outdoors.


  • #6613
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    OwenM wrote: »
    There is no reason that farcical covid theatre at Iveagh House could not have been held in March

    That would have made this thread interesting for a few weeks. Non-essential retail closed, hospitality closed, 5km travel restrictions but hey let's put on a concert :pac: :pac: :pac:


  • #6614
    OwenM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 859 ✭✭✭OwenM


    JRant wrote: »
    Pilot events make perfect sense. As you say, it gives organisers a chance to refine processes and procedures. That said, I'm not sure what anyone learned from the IG event. Unless, this that is the model to be deployed at upcoming events over the next number of months. If that is the case, then best of luck to them, as that looked like a painful experience for all involved.

    I agree and I had thought any of the pilots we saw on the continent were to demonstrate antigen testing could be used to exclude actively contagious people from gigs and allow capacity or near capacity crowds to attend. Does anybody seriously think electric picnic is going to be run with pods of 4/6 people fenced off like sheep.

    Of course it's easy for RTE six-one news to find someone happy with it and they will because they are promoting the government line on this.


  • #6615
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    OwenM wrote: »
    Does anybody seriously think electric picnic is going to be run with pods of 4/6 people fenced off like sheep.

    Didn't EP already amount a delay to give more time for vaccinations?


  • #6616
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,419 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    JRant wrote: »
    Pilot events make perfect sense. As you say, it gives organisers a chance to refine processes and procedures. That said, I'm not sure what anyone learned from the IG event. Unless, this that is the model to be deployed at upcoming events over the next number of months. If that is the case, then best of luck to them, as that looked like a painful experience for all involved.

    Neither do I, but then again I'm not tasked with creating a frame work going forward. Just because we don't know if anything was learned doesn't mean nothing was learned.

    As for painful experience? The tickets were gone in 20 minutes, attended by fans who got to see one of their preferred artists live.

    Judging by the interviews after it appears they were happy because they saw it as a positive.

    Mental concept around here I know.


  • #6617
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    OwenM wrote: »
    There is no reason that farcical covid theatre at Iveagh House could not have been held in March or at any other time during the pandemic. It neither tested nor proved anything.

    Interesting approach. So say running trials when we were up **** creek in January for example or when case numbers were still very high would have been a good idea?

    The UK only started its trials in line with vaccination milestones being reached by Mid April. Its very first trial had a limit of 300 people (this event was cancelled btw)

    From what I've read so far about the planned pilot events here is that
    they will allow venues to assess what arrangements and protective measures are needed, ahead of a further return of live entertainment and spectators at sports matches.

    The trials will allow organisers to spot and solve teething problems early, such as how to avoid bottlenecks of people entering and leaving venues or stadiums.

    And if that gets things moving. I've no problem with that.


  • #6618
    robbiezero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    gozunda wrote: »
    OK. Funnily enough the first UK event trialed was just 300 people at a comedy club in Liverpool on April 16

    Was that indoors?


  • #6619
    Terry..
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Terry..


    Can I go outside today ?


  • #6620
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    robbiezero wrote: »
    Was that indoors?

    This place. Normal capacity 11,000 afaik


    med_a8a49171e815e827a99997b27b7c4ebd.jpg

    Edit.

    Just found an article which stated the event was cancelled just days before it was supposed to go ahead because of row about "vaccine passports" and hate mail the organisers received ...


  • #6621
    robbiezero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    gozunda wrote: »
    This place. Normal capacity 11,000 afaik


    med_a8a49171e815e827a99997b27b7c4ebd.jpg

    Edit.

    Just found an article which stated the event was cancelled because of row about "vaccine passports" and hate mail the organisers received

    Hate mail? Why was that?


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  • #6622
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    robbiezero wrote: »
    Hate mail? Why was that?

    Look like it was to do with UK Govs vaccination passport programme

    This from official statement from the
    Hot Water Comedy Club
    "For some reason, all trials had been bundled together under the same press release and it seemed that we were part of the vaccine passport programme."

    Over the next 2 days we were subject to a hate campaign from people opposing the vaccine passport across our Facebook channel, Twitter, Instagram, emails, text messages, negative reviews, refund requests and phone calls. "We have over 4,000 separate examples of negative reaction which have significantly damaged our business and brand.


  • #6623
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,134 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Boggles wrote: »
    Neither do I, but then again I'm not tasked with creating a frame work going forward. Just because we don't know if anything was learned doesn't mean nothing was learned.

    As for painful experience? The tickets were gone in 20 minutes, attended by fans who got to see one of their preferred artists live.

    Judging by the interviews after it appears they were happy because they saw it as a positive.

    Mental concept around here I know.

    Isn't that the problem? Communication on a lot of issues has been like at best. If the aim to have events carried out like this for the foreseeable then just state that and then it makes sense for everyone else looking in.

    I could have worded the last part a bit better alright. It looked painful to me. That's not to say those who attended didn't enjoy it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I suppose.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #6624
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,134 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    gozunda wrote: »
    Look like it was to do with UK Govs vaccination passport programme

    This from official statement from the
    Hot Water Comedy Club

    Jaysus, that's desperate carry-on altogether. Social media can be a real sesspit at times.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #6625
    OwenM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 859 ✭✭✭OwenM


    gozunda wrote: »
    Interesting approach. So say running trials when we were up **** creek in January for example or when case numbers were still very high would have been a good idea?

    The UK only started its trials in line with vaccination milestones being reached by Mid April. Its very first trial had a limit of 300 people (this event was cancelled btw)

    From what I've read so far about the planned pilot events here is that



    And if that gets things moving. I've no problem with that.

    I've no opinion on whether it would have been a good idea or not, I was asserting that what took place at Iveagh House could have happened as safely then as now and nothing was learned or advanced by the exercise. A pilot of exactly what took place? Social distancing + contact tracing + washing hands + fencing people into pens? How does that advance any return to normality? Nothing in those methods apart from the rope fencing that hadn't been done for 12 months.

    Meanwhile a pilot in Barcelona using antigen testing looks like this:

    barcelona.jpg


  • #6626
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,252 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    That numpty Ryan on the news headlines just now saying that they need Holohan to sign off on antigen testing, after which they're ready to go.

    Who does he think is in charge?

    It's a perfect storm.. Holohan is arrogant and doesn't like being questioned, let alone giving up control, and Ryan and the rest are terrified of being held accountable for making a decision - especially if it overrules Tony.

    It would be almost funny if it wasn't so serious!


  • #6627
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    OwenM wrote: »
    I've no opinion on whether it would have been a good idea or not,

    No worries - I was replying to this specifically

    OwenM wrote:
    There is no reason that farcical covid theatre at Iveagh House could not have been held in March or at any other time during the pandemic. ...

    I guess we have to start somewhere regardless.

    Regarding the issue of antigen testing - definitely has its place but just hope the likes of Barcelona don't end up in the mess the UK have made - having spent some 3 billion on antigen tests todate. Know nothing about that event tbh but that said Spain really doesn't have great analytics when it comes to their infection rates to date tbh.

    https://cen.acs.org/analytical-chemistry/diagnostics/COVID-19-test-used-UK-mass-screening-program-receives-stinging-rebuke-from-FDA/99/web/2021/06


  • #6628
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,419 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    JRant wrote: »
    Isn't that the problem? Communication on a lot of issues has been like at best. If the aim to have events carried out like this for the foreseeable then just state that and then it makes sense for everyone else looking in.

    They did state it, this press release was carried by all media.

    https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/97957-sport-and-cultural-pilot-live-events-taking-place-in-june/


  • #6629
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,419 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    OwenM wrote: »
    Meanwhile a pilot in Barcelona using antigen testing looks like this:

    What was the main takeaway from that?

    It took 80 nurses working 12 hours to test the 5,000.

    Is that feasible going forward scaled up?

    I'd suggest not.


  • #6630
    OwenM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 859 ✭✭✭OwenM


    gozunda wrote: »
    No worries - I was replying to this specifically




    I guess we have to start somewhere regardless.

    Regarding the issue of antigen testing - definitely has its place but just hope the likes of Barcelona don't end up in the mess the UK have made - having spent some 3 billion on antigen tests todate. Know nothing about that event tbh but that said Spain really doesn't have great analytics when it comes to their infection rates to date tbh.

    https://cen.acs.org/analytical-chemistry/diagnostics/COVID-19-test-used-UK-mass-screening-program-receives-stinging-rebuke-from-FDA/99/web/2021/06

    The article you links talks a lot about sensitivity and any conversation about PCR v's antigen which quotes sensitivity is disingenuous. PCR detects fragments of the virus which can remain detectable for months, an individual who tested positive today could test positive in September but would only test positive with an antigen test while they are actively contagious. Depending on how you select your test subjects you can produce any sensitivity figure you want.

    Spain's current 14 day incidence per 100k is 102, our is 99.


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  • #6631
    OwenM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 859 ✭✭✭OwenM


    Boggles wrote: »
    What was the main takeaway from that?

    It took 80 nurses working 12 hours to test the 5,000.

    Is that feasible going forward scaled up?

    I'd suggest not.

    Yes, I would say it's not feasible to have nurses doing it. Self administered tests might work, you are handed a test at the start of a queue or in a holding area and you can leave it when you have your negative result.


This discussion has been closed.
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