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Royal Canal Greenway

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Comments

  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,784 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    Hanging stuff off a 164+ year old railway embankment isn't particularly sensible in any case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 48 Chrisam


    Regardless where it goes, Waterways Ireland states the Greenway:

    "as a recreation trail for a wide range of users and abilities, the Royal Canal Greenway is best appreciated as a leisurely ride with an emphasis on the journey instead of the destination." (Waterways Ireland's Royal Canal Greenway FAQ doc.)

    This doesn't tally with FCC's focus on using it for Active Travel/Eurovelo routes. Wherever it is (eventually) put, I can see a clash between the commuters/serious cyclists and everyone else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 329 ✭✭ mr potato head


    Active travel doesn't mean it's built 30kph cyclists, it means all types of cyclists from kids going to school to retirees visiting friends.

    We need to get away from the idea of commuter cyclists being those on racing bikes, there will be some of these types of users, but clubs will stay away from the greenway (after initial interest) and will mostly stick to traditional club ride routes because of potential conflict.
    City bikes will be the main users like in mainland Europe, most current commuters use fast bikes the interaction with traffic requires it which won't be the case as better infrastructure develops and we are cycling for short trips more often.

    Active travel by all demographics and ability is precisely the reason that the South Bank only option is unsuitable. Permeability is key to cycling infrastructure and that option has none, where the North bank option does.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,646 ✭✭✭ Former Former Former


    00sully wrote: »
    3. Ecology - pfft as above. Spouting this line should be an absolute embarrassment to the residents (and I know the chief leader in this regard who had no problem with his land grab)

    Maybe some of the residents are using this as a red herring... but I don't live near the greenway and the ecological impact is my main beef with it. (Edit: I live in Carpenterstown but not close enough to the canal that it will make any direct odds to me which side it's on).

    I think there's a wonderful irony in calling something a greenway, then sending a bulldozer in to remove all the green stuff. What some residents did or did not do with their gardens doesn't change the fact that the canal is home to all sorts of foxes, squirrels, bats, birds, etc, and ripping up all the trees will have a huge impact on them, as does having 24/7 lighting.

    Now, Fingal and Waterways could offset this to a fairly significant extent by closing off the existing towpath on the southern side and letting that return to nature over time. But they won't do that either because they don't give a f**k about it. They haven't even bothered to explain why.

    They're deeply, deeply incompetent when it comes to environmental protection and I will be letting ABP know that when the time comes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 329 ✭✭ mr potato head


    I think there's a wonderful irony in calling something a greenway, then sending a bulldozer in to remove all the green stuff. What some residents did or did not do with their gardens doesn't change the fact that the canal is home to all sorts of foxes, squirrels, bats, birds, etc, and ripping up all the trees will have a huge impact on them, as does having 24/7 lighting.

    Now, Fingal and Waterways could offset this to a fairly significant extent by closing off the existing towpath on the southern side and letting that return to nature over time. But they won't do that either because they don't give a f**k about it. They haven't even bothered to explain why.

    They're deeply, deeply incompetent when it comes to environmental protection and I will be letting ABP know that when the time comes.

    There is a consultation page available on the Fingal Co Co website. I'm very much in support of the greenway and the North bank for accessibility reasons, but I will be raising the issue of habitat destruction, rewilding areas as you mentioned and the use of native tree and plant life in any replanting. This is also a place to raise your concerns.

    I believe some of the boardwalk through part of the North Bank is to reduce impact in this area, but yes developers/cc's have a poor reputation and heavy hand when it comes to works.

    I would also encourage people who support the development to say so, these portals tend to focus on the negative or make it seem like there is a much greater number against the plan. Voicing support is important to get a genuine picture.
    I believe there is also a survey running until early July where this can be done.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭ 00sully


    Maybe some of the residents are using this as a red herring... but I don't live near the greenway and the ecological impact is my main beef with it. (Edit: I live in Carpenterstown but not close enough to the canal that it will make any direct odds to me which side it's on).

    I think there's a wonderful irony in calling something a greenway, then sending a bulldozer in to remove all the green stuff. What some residents did or did not do with their gardens doesn't change the fact that the canal is home to all sorts of foxes, squirrels, bats, birds, etc, and ripping up all the trees will have a huge impact on them, as does having 24/7 lighting.

    Now, Fingal and Waterways could offset this to a fairly significant extent by closing off the existing towpath on the southern side and letting that return to nature over time. But they won't do that either because they don't give a f**k about it. They haven't even bothered to explain why.

    They're deeply, deeply incompetent when it comes to environmental protection and I will be letting ABP know that when the time comes.

    I don't like that at all either I was only pointing out the hypocrisy of the residents argument.

    However, I can live with some bulldozing to facilitate greener modes of transport. It's not like putting a road through it or building a massive housing estate on parkland. This should encourage an uptick in commuting to town via cycling.

    It should be offset 100% or as close to as possible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,163 ✭✭✭ Mercian Pro


    Excellent response 00Sully on 14/6.

    Out of curiosity, I went back and looked at the 2012 Atkins Report to see what they had to say about the north bank option at the Deep Sinking. The answer - precisely nothing. Of the four options considered for this section, three involved various complicated and expensive engineering "solutions" for widening the southern towpath while the fourth proposed diverting the Greenway through adjoining residential areas. Maybe they felt constrained by the brief they were given "to examine the engineering feasibility of upgrading the existing towpath" (my underlining) or maybe they couldn't think outside the box.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭ PhoenixParker


    Excellent response 00Sully on 14/6.

    Out of curiosity, I went back and looked at the 2012 Atkins Report to see what they had to say about the north bank option at the Deep Sinking. The answer - precisely nothing. Of the four options considered for this section, three involved various complicated and expensive engineering "solutions" for widening the southern towpath while the fourth proposed diverting the Greenway through adjoining residential areas. Maybe they felt constrained by the brief they were given "to examine the engineering feasibility of upgrading the existing towpath" (my underlining) or maybe they couldn't think outside the box.

    They weren't paid to think outside the box. They were paid to write a report fulfilling the brief.

    The brief was probably written that way to avoid wasting time on options that were clearly less favourable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,163 ✭✭✭ Mercian Pro


    The brief was probably written that way to avoid wasting time on options that were clearly less favourable.


    Please read https://consult.fingal.ie/en/system/files/materials/19709/Feasibility%20and%20Constraint%20Study%20%28GDG%29.pdf and then explain why the north bank option is less favourable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 103 ✭✭ knockoutned


    Firstly, can we move past this notion that the land used for the extended gardens in Delwood is an issue. Some posters are taken this personally and this seems to a major reason why they want the path on the Northside. Look, it is true that some houses did not pay for the land, and there is nowhere where this should be allowed, but that is an issue between them and Waterways Ireland. But it’s a red herring as enough houses did pay and the fact that they did, means that the boundary would still be where it is now. Also, I have read little or no criticism of Waterways Ireland selling this land / chasing residents, it’s all the resident’s fault. As always, no forward planning.

    Secondly, this land was mainly scrub land consisting primarily of nettles and briars, which grew on the rubble from constructing the estate. Yes, some houses cut down trees that grew there, but it was nowhere near the level of destruction that will need to happen to construct the path. The main tree line was always at the edge of the slope and continued down to the canal, while the area where one one of the bridges will be constructed at the quarry has been left untouched for decades and goes all the way to the original boundary with Delwood. I agree with both Former and 00Sully that there needs to offsetting, if the plan is to cut all this down.

    On the barge, why would there be any need to “import” one when Waterways Ireland have loads of them that they use regularly to maintain the existing canal network, just google Waterways Ireland workboats. I was just using the video to illustrate what could be done :p

    Finally, with the plan for the Northside, there is a requirement to construct two bridges, one to be an "architectural masterpiece"! Are you as confident that these will not cost more. There seems to be little or no conversation on these. What is also concerning is that Fingal do not have a good record constructing cycling / pedestrian bridges. The footbridge at Coolmine station is an absolute travesty. Yes, it serves its purpose as you can cross the canal, but it such a cheap piece of junk. How is it so noisy! And nothing has been done to address it since it was installed.

    It just seems that any potential issue with the construction on the Southside are taken as sacrosanct, while the same issues are dismissed and not important when it comes to the construction on the Northside. And to me, this is a big problem.

    BTW, 00Sully, I take it that you moved out of Dublin and Ireland to your Utopia where the city planners are competent and know what they are doing by following proven best practices :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 48 Chrisam


    I wonder how many of the posters here, have walked the towpath from Coolmine to Castleknock? I have, right through spring into summer and the north bank is a glorious wilderness for almost a kilometre, of the 1.55kms from Coolmine train station to Castleknock train station. Foxes, birdsong, hawthorns etc.

    I don't care about the residents' gardens, at Delwood or Roselawn - that is just a smokescreen, to hide the fact that FCC are planning a habitat destruction, of 30+ years.

    As we can see from the different 'expert' reports, documents can be made to say anything they are commissioned to do. Walk that stretch and see it for yourself. One side of the canal is rich with biodiversity, the other has the towpath. It's as simple as that. And ask FCC why their most up to date biodiversity plan is 2010-2015.


  • Registered Users Posts: 329 ✭✭ mr potato head


    Some posters are taken this personally and this seems to a major reason why they want the path on the Northside.

    I have seen this as a secondary conversation, the main points raised here for the suitability of the North bank is permeability for the local community and the engineering challenges of the South bank.
    Should the greenway be placed wholly on the south bank there is no safe way to access the infrastructure from Castleknock train station to Coolmine for a large section of Blanchardstown, going against current design principles for cycling/walking infrastructure.

    Let's take the example of a young person from Delwood/Brompton/Roselawn/Hazel Lawn/Rushbrook etc. looking to switch from car/bus to active travel to get to St Dominics or St Declans in Cabra (5-6km by bike), in a south bank only scenario there is no way to use the infrastructure without using currently hostile public roads at busy intersections.

    These are intersections where I am regularly close/punishment passed by drivers and they are completely unsuitable for a 12-year-old cycling to school... this is who we are trying to build safe cycling infrastructure (freedom) for, not cyclists like me (although I'll welcome it).
    Finally, with the plan for the Northside, there is a requirement to construct two bridges, one to be an "architectural masterpiece"! Are you as confident that these will not cost more. There seems to be little or no conversation on these.

    And a complex cantilevered boardwalk is the simpler and lower risk?

    "Option A and Option B are not suitable for construction as the installation of an embedded retaining wall. These options would adversely affect health and safety, temporary works construction, cost, programme, potential for disruption to Irish Rail, noise and vibration. DBFL Option C may be feasible but would require a robust geotechnical design for both the temporary works and permanent works and also a complex construction methodology which would result in a prolonged programme."

    Option C - "the installation of the anchors requires specialised access to the site, whilst the lifting and placement of the modular blocks would be challenging. In addition, the ground conditions beneath the structure would have to be reviewed particularly in relation to global stability of the slope beneath both the railway line and the proposed greenway structure."..."Excavation in close proximity to the railway line may pose a risk of destabilising the slope beneath the railway line."

    I would see this as high risk with the potential for huge disruption to rail services, hidden costs or even embankment collapse.
    If there is an alternative option, with wider social benefits, like the North Bank it should be prioritised for further development.
    .


  • Registered Users Posts: 329 ✭✭ mr potato head


    Chrisam wrote: »
    I wonder how many of the posters here, have walked the towpath from Coolmine to Castleknock? I have, right through spring into summer and the north bank is a glorious wilderness for almost a kilometre, of the 1.55kms from Coolmine train station to Castleknock train station. Foxes, birdsong, hawthorns etc.

    I don't care about the residents' gardens, at Delwood or Roselawn - that is just a smokescreen, to hide the fact that FCC are planning a habitat destruction, of 30+ years.

    As we can see from the different 'expert' reports, documents can be made to say anything they are commissioned to do. Walk that stretch and see it for yourself. One side of the canal is rich with biodiversity, the other has the towpath. It's as simple as that. And ask FCC why their most up to date biodiversity plan is 2010-2015.

    Regularly, and as you say it's wonderful. Everything possible must be done to protect as much of this as possible during construction and to replace/improve habitats (for example rewilding the South Bank) afterwards.

    Yet I look around the rest of our area and it's swamped with cars. People sitting in queues of cars all around the area do simple tasks like go to the local shop or visit friends a couple of estates over, speeding through estates like mine to drop off kids in the morning, abanding cars on the pavement where they block those with mobility or vision challenges.

    Kids can't safely move independently like I could when I grew up (and they still can in places like Denmark/Netherlands). Older people have to rely on cars too as they might not be confident enough to cycle on the roads.

    The little slice of wilderness is a distraction from the reality of the car-focused infrastructure in the whole country which is stripping vast amounts more rich habitats to enable car use than the North Bank ever will for the greenway. Just look at the abomination that was suggested to add extra lanes to the N3?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,646 ✭✭✭ Former Former Former


    Regularly, and as you say it's wonderful. Everything possible must be done to protect as much of this as possible during construction and to replace/improve habitats (for example rewilding the South Bank) afterwards.

    This is the problem though. What you're talking about isn't remotely on anyone's agenda.

    Fingal have expressly and repeatedly said that the south bank towpath will remain open. It will not be rewilded.

    Fingal want a 4-metre wide path between Coolmine and Castleknock. To allow for access for equipment, fencing, electrics, they'll have to cut a swathe of 6 to 8 metres along the whole length. The lads won't be going in with secateurs and trowels to ensure they don't disturb any habitat, they'll be going in with a bulldozer and clearing it to bare earth.

    Now, why it has to be 4-metres when the rest of the greenway is nothing like as wide, I'm not sure.

    Fingal will tell us that they're going to plant X trees and they'll treat it all with sensitivity but it's bollocks. They simply don't have the competence or interest to do so. This stretch of canal is unique precisely because it's been left alone for 30 or 40 years. Even if Fingal do all this planting, it will take years to grow and then every spring, the lads will arrive along and prune it all back. In the meantime, all the animals will have died.

    It's an incredible price to pay but I know I'm wasting my breath. Neither Fingal nor Waterways Ireland give a f**k.


  • Registered Users Posts: 329 ✭✭ mr potato head


    I won't prolong an argument as I've said my piece, but FYI 4m is narrow in comparison to the recommendations for high traffic cycling infrastructure, the Rural Cycleway Design Standards from Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII) which is 5m minimum.

    The standards state that 4m "values will satisfy the core design principles but will provide a minimum acceptable quality of service.". That is not taking into account of the proposed shared space for the greenway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 103 ✭✭ knockoutned


    Just on this, people from Delwood/Brompton would access it from either Coolmine, or Castleknock train stations, while people from Hazel Lawn/Rushbrook would technically have to access it going through Blanchardstown village, as there are no cycle access to the Roselawn Road from these estates, only pedestrian walkways. In an ideal scenario, they should be able to cycle down a Tolka greenway and join at the canal path at either Ashtown, or continue to Broombridge.

    But staying with this, what about someone living in any estate off Auburn Avenue or Beechpark Avenue or the new houses in the old race course who also attend these schools. Where should they access the path? I believe currently the only access is at the 12th lock, which is a mess due to construction at the tennis club and Ashtown, which at that stage you may as well stay on the Navan Road. This path has been constructed and been in use for years and yet no work on accessibility has been made.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,319 ✭✭✭ daymobrew


    I believe currently the only access is at the 12th lock, which is a mess due to construction at the tennis club and Ashtown, which at that stage you may as well stay on the Navan Road. This path has been constructed and been in use for years and yet no work on accessibility has been made.
    The works at Castleknock Tennis Club are nearly finished. Even now it's grand - I use it twice a day to bring my child to CETNS via the tunnel/bridge from 12th Lock.

    You *could* get from Phoenix Park Racecourse to the towpath via Navan Road Parkway train station but it's a *hack* to say the least - go through this gap in the hedge, up some steps to the eastbound platform and then up lift/steps and down lift/steps to westbound platform and the exit. When that towpath was being upgraded I suggested giving access to the train station but I've found that if I include something in a submission is a guarantee that it won't be done. :rolleyes:

    I've use the cycle track along Navan Road from Phoenix Park Racecourse and onto Old Navan Road and to 12th Lock a number of times. As a family it is fine and better than going via the train station or Ashtown.
    In the meantime, all the animals will have died.

    It's an incredible price to pay but I know I'm wasting my breath. Neither Fingal nor Waterways Ireland give a f**k.
    Road building probably ploughs through a lot more animal habitats.
    We need a transport modal shift away from cars. We should not need to build greenways but motorists seem to be incapable of sharing existing road space with vulnerable road users so we have to physically protect vulnerable road users from motor vehicles. Existing roadways have extensive permeability but they are not safe for everyone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 329 ✭✭ mr potato head


    Just on this, people from Delwood/Brompton would access it from either Coolmine, or Castleknock train stations, while people from Hazel Lawn/Rushbrook would technically have to access it going through Blanchardstown village, as there are no cycle access to the Roselawn Road from these estates, only pedestrian walkways. In an ideal scenario, they should be able to cycle down a Tolka greenway and join at the canal path at either Ashtown, or continue to Broombridge.

    But staying with this, what about someone living in any estate off Auburn Avenue or Beechpark Avenue or the new houses in the old race course who also attend these schools. Where should they access the path? I believe currently the only access is at the 12th lock, which is a mess due to construction at the tennis club and Ashtown, which at that stage you may as well stay on the Navan Road. This path has been constructed and been in use for years and yet no work on accessibility has been made.

    The bridge at Castleknock train station was recently discussed at a council meeting and described as probably the most hostile/dangerous areas for vulnerable road users in the area. I'd agree, I've been physically pushed aside by cars who want to get by and won't wait, not a child or disability-friendly access point at all.

    There should be proper cycle access across the greens at Hazel Lawn to Roselawn and the kissing gate on the green should be removed too as it is not wheelchair or cargobike friendly.

    I believe that there are plans for a Castleknock-Dunsink cycle path (maybe the old hamilton way), that might provide more access for the Castleknock area. But the Castleknock Manor > Navan Rd Parkway probably should be opened up fully to the greenway as it links active and public transport.

    Hopefully there will be a network developing in the area over the next 5-10 years making active travel safer in D15: 6 cycle lane projects planned for Dublin 15 area over the next 5 years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,646 ✭✭✭ Former Former Former


    daymobrew wrote: »
    Road building probably ploughs through a lot more animal habitats.
    We need a transport modal shift away from cars. We should not need to build greenways but motorists seem to be incapable of sharing existing road space with vulnerable road users so we have to physically protect vulnerable road users from motor vehicles. Existing roadways have extensive permeability but they are not safe for everyone.

    This greenway won't result in any fewer roads being built though. Building this might put fewer cars on the road, a safer route for cyclists (good things, obviously) but we'll still need the same roads at the end of it all.

    But that's not really my point. You're arguing the merits of the greenway, but I agree it will be great to have. I just think it could have been done a lot better from an ecological perspective.

    Fingal have looked at this from every angle that suits their chosen proposals; permeability, engineering, width of path etc. - but have taken absolutely zero account of environmental factors. They've just completely ignored that whole aspect of it because they don't want to ask any questions they might not like the answers to.

    Their approach is to finalise the route, and THEN do an environmental impact assessment. That's ridiculous because even if they find a colony of unicorns in the undergrowth, they'll still have to proceed per the plan because it will be too late to change course. And they know that - in fact, they're counting on it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭ shmoke


    What I don't understand about the plans is if it's a greenway from Dublin to Galway, and it must be connected, then why shoe-horn the Dublin part in along the canal just because it's the canal?

    Why not consider an alternative route beginning at the Phoenix Park, through Luttrellstown and Westmanstown and connecting with the rest of the greenway there?

    Its obviously not an issue that the route must be along the canal, because the proposed route already diverges from that.

    If I was involved in any of cycling groups who currently cycle the back roads along Westmanstown and Luttrellstown that's what I'd be angling for.

    Dublin councils can't control people's anti-social behaviour at the Grand Canal, where it's entirely in the open, I don't expect Fingal to fare any better, where cover will be provided for those engaging in that behaviour.

    Also just on the engineering design of it, if the elevated part is anything like the new tin-roof bridge at Coolmine then it should be scrapped on that basis alone.


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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 32,514 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Seth Brundle


    shmoke wrote: »
    If I was involved in any of cycling groups who currently cycle the back roads along Westmanstown and Luttrellstown that's what I'd be angling for.
    Cycling groups are unlikely to use the greenway to any meaningful extent.
    It's really intended for tourism and commuting, not sport cycling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭ shmoke


    Cycling groups are unlikely to use the greenway to any meaningful extent.
    It's really intended for tourism and commuting, not sport cycling.

    Tourism and commuting? On your left the historic 1960's housing estates of Dublin 15, on your right the historic 1980's housing estates of Dublin 15 and in front of you a commuter furiously cycling to get home, so you better get out of his way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭ PhoenixParker


    shmoke wrote: »
    Tourism and commuting? On your left the historic 1960's housing estates of Dublin 15, on your right the historic 1980's housing estates of Dublin 15 and in front of you a commuter furiously cycling to get home, so you better get out of his way.

    It's a route not a destination. I can absolutely see cycle touring departing Dublin being a popular tourist activity.

    German tourists, pick up a bike in the docks and meander along to Mullingar, stopping for snacks, meals, pints and sleep. Hop on the train back after a day or two. Heck I can even see Irish people doing it. Potter to Maynooth as a day trip or further and make a weekend of it.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,784 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    There are already Irish people doing Maynooth to Enfield where there's a simple one-way rental available. Grab the train back.

    I know a group of Finglas/"Glasnevin" lads, mid 50s, who did a canal walk to Maynooth (with pints at Ashtown, only place there's a very convenient pub currently), more pints in Maynooth and train back as a sort of challenge in Summer '19 - they all made it amazingly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 329 ✭✭ mr potato head


    shmoke wrote: »
    Tourism and commuting? On your left the historic 1960's housing estates of Dublin 15, on your right the historic 1980's housing estates of Dublin 15 and in front of you a commuter furiously cycling to get home, so you better get out of his way.

    On your left schools where children could cycle to... on your right the shop it's easier to cycle to than drive... on your left the historic Dunsink Observatory established in 1785.

    We are not devoid of interesting landmarks or reasons to hop on a bike


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,163 ✭✭✭ Mercian Pro


    shmoke wrote: »
    What I don't understand about the plans is if it's a greenway from Dublin to Galway, and it must be connected, then why shoe-horn the Dublin part in along the canal just because it's the canal?


    It's not just the Dublin to Galway Greenway but also the Royal Canal Greenway to Longford and Cloondara not to mention EuroVelo Route 2. Are you seriously suggesting that it should be diverted to a totally different route because it runs behind the gardens of 20 houses in Delwood Park?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭ donaghs


    shmoke wrote: »
    What I don't understand about the plans is if it's a greenway from Dublin to Galway, and it must be connected, then why shoe-horn the Dublin part in along the canal just because it's the canal?

    Why not consider an alternative route beginning at the Phoenix Park, through Luttrellstown and Westmanstown and connecting with the rest of the greenway there?

    Its obviously not an issue that the route must be along the canal, because the proposed route already diverges from that.

    If I was involved in any of cycling groups who currently cycle the back roads along Westmanstown and Luttrellstown that's what I'd be angling for.

    I'm assuming they choose the Royal Canal as part of the Dublin-Galway greenway as there's an existing route and rough path in place, going mostly in that direction, which just needs to be tarmaced.
    (BTW The Royal Canal was once planned to be turned into a Motorway heading West out of Dublin https://randall.ie/unfinished-dublin/?page=2)

    Similarly the Mullingar to Athlone greenway section utilises an old railway line.

    AFAIK, there is no such easy option on the Galway to Athlone section. Farmers etc will have to allow the route across their land.

    A greenway along the Strawberry Beds would be great idea IMHO, but similarly, I assume very hard to achieve due to land ownership issues.
    On your left schools where children could cycle to... on your right the shop it's easier to cycle to than drive... on your left the historic Dunsink Observatory established in 1785.

    We are not devoid of interesting landmarks or reasons to hop on a bike
    And the Deep Sinking has both history and nice scenery.
    It's not just the Dublin to Galway Greenway but also the Royal Canal Greenway to Longford and Cloondara not to mention EuroVelo Route 2. Are you seriously suggesting that it should be diverted to a totally different route because it runs behind the gardens of 20 houses in Delwood Park?

    I don't think he mentioned the gardens at Delwood?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14 RapaNui


    New to this, but there appear to be some residents in the adjacent estates who DO support the greenway proposal for the North Bank between Castleknock and Coolmine (despite what the noise might tell you).

    Some of them have done an analysis of the proposal, and a rebuttal of residents objections. As well as a detailed guide on how to submit your observations to the public consultation and local reps:

    https://bit.ly/LovelyGreenway

    https://twitter.com/MyLovelyGrnway


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,163 ✭✭✭ Mercian Pro


    RapaNui wrote: »
    New to this, but there appear to be some residents in the adjacent estates who DO support the greenway proposal for the North Bank between Castleknock and Coolmine (despite what the noise might tell you).


    Around the time of the last consultation, I was walking around the Delwood/Brompton area and taking photos of the northern bank where I could. I became aware that I was being watched and followed by a woman and prepared to defend myself for nosing around a quite residential area. I was pleasantly surprised at her reaction when I explained I was working on a submission supporting the northern option. She lived in Delwood and was very enthusiastic about the possibility of being able to access the Greenway from the end of her road. Unfortunately she felt unable to express her views locally as there was very much a neighbourhood line of supporting the twenty or so residents whose gardens backed on to the northern bank.
    Great to see this time she is not alone and that's one very convincing analysis for anyone working on a submission.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,646 ✭✭✭ Former Former Former


    RapaNui wrote: »
    New to this, but there appear to be some residents in the adjacent estates who DO support the greenway proposal for the North Bank between Castleknock and Coolmine (despite what the noise might tell you).

    Some of them have done an analysis of the proposal, and a rebuttal of residents objections. As well as a detailed guide on how to submit your observations to the public consultation and local reps:

    https://bit.ly/LovelyGreenway

    https://twitter.com/MyLovelyGrnway

    Where does it say where they live? I don't see that.

    Look, that's very nicely presented but it is essentially a copy and paste of the Council claims, I'm not sure it really counters the arguments against the North Bank. It's an incredibly slanted viewpoint and some of the claims don't really make sense, some are outright lies (which is fine, it's not as if the local residents are trying to be balanced either).

    When you see who they follow and who follows them on Twitter, it's very obvious they're cycle lobbyists. Again, that's fine, but let's call it what it is.


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