Royal Canal Greenway

magicbastarder

now you need to join the resident's association and start introducing some pro-greenway vibes into it!

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541960#Comment_119541960

The residents have got some of what they want, I suspect it won't be enough for them. However, the greenway will be less pleasant to walk on, but a balance has to be struck and this may be the best one.

Flinty997

I'm curious what you think the residents wanted that you think they got?

I was trying to find a list of issues for both sides. Best I could find was they both want it on different sides of the canal and either want no access or access through the estate.

Because multiple access through the estate and path on estate side seems like there was no comprise at all.

Build a fence a bit higher and move the bridge slightly seem to make negligible difference to that. More of a sop than a compromise.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547526#Comment_119547526

Three accesses instead of six is an improvement for the residents.

Measures to reduce overlooking is also an improvement.

The South option was never technically feasible and would have destroyed the look of the Deep Sinking.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547540#Comment_119547540

All of those were in the previous proposal though. As far as I can see, there has not been one single change to the proposals following the 2021 consultation. Any questions about the glaring omissions from the design were met with "this will be addressed at a future stage".

Which might be fair enough, but then you'd have to ask what they've been doing for the last year.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547664#Comment_119547664

• "To prevent the greenway overlooking the back gardens of the residents of Delwood Park and for security reasons, the ground level of the greenway is proposed to be lowered to match, or be lower than, the existing ground level of the adjacent back gardens and a 2m high timber palisade fence provided, with an anti-climb wire mesh fence."

Are you saying that was in the previous report?

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547688#Comment_119547688

Yes.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547540#Comment_119547540

Its effectively just lip service. I don't care which side its on. But even I can see they either have no intention of taking the residents seriously, or are intentionally picking a fight, so they don't have to do it. End result nothing will happen. Which I kinda half care about.

But tbh if cycling to town, you wouldn't go this route, through the park is much faster. TBH you can just cycle/walk west from Coolmine and not bother with the deep sinking. So I have little interest in it.

But its fascinating how these things play out. Its real Machiavellian way of dealing with it.

magicbastarder

many of the residents do want it on the delwood side; but from what i can see, the residents association decided to oppose it without a huge amount of consultation, and are being very vocal about it; i've talked to a couple of people who would welcome it on the delwood side but are keeping their heads down because they want an easy life.

Former Former Former

In fairness, this document is a summary of the consultation process, thus changes to design would be out of scope.

But it's pretty obvious that the design is set.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547839#Comment_119547839

I think if you want to involved you would make it your business to be involved or heard. Either through the association or outside of it.

If you don't I think you've voted by your inaction.

This isn't really a consultation, its a Fait accompli. They are just rearranging the curtains, hey look we've changed it...very slightly...

magicbastarder

I think if you want to involved you would make it your business to be involved or heard. Either through the association or outside of it.

i suspect most people doing so are doing it through filling out the consulation forms, etc.; they probably don't want to piss of some of their vocal neighbours by forming an active campaign. as we all know, the nays in this sort of campaign are louder than the yays; i see it where i live too, where the local residents association were opposing the design of metrolink, even though nearly all the neighbours i know were happy about it.

getoutadodge

The south side option was never feasable given the proximity to the train track and the depth of the Deep Sinking. Getting more restrictions into and out of Delwood is more than adequate. Waterways Ireland should immediately enforce thru the courts any landgrab no matter how "historical" or inadvertant. Same should apply to the north side off the canal of the what I think is an old Anglo estate from the the Ashtown Lock heading towards Castleknock/Blanch. CPO if necessary. This was always about NIMBYism with the hope of killing off a really great initiative to bring the canal walkway back to use for the general public. Many will prefer it to cutting thru the Phoenix Park especially if Kildare CC get off their arse and complete their section enabling a completed cycleway from Celbridge and Maynooth etc to the Docks. I got some creative line of bullshit from a Kildare CC official as to why the Kildare stretch is on hold yet a great job was done in St Catherines Park? These cycling/walking routes like the Canals or the Tolka and Dodder are a huge improvement. The Islandbridge to Chapelizard one on the Liffey is great. Roll on the new Liffey bridge proposed for there and at the Red Bridge in the Strawberry Beds at the back of Farmleigh which would connect Palmerstown and beyond to the Park.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547808#Comment_119547808

If you read the report, there are huge technical issues with the south side, it just isn't possible, and would make DART+ West impossible. For the people of Dublin 15 overall, it is a good outcome, even if the small number of local residents affected by it are unhappy.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547839#Comment_119547839

That area is developing a reputation for NIMBYism. They opposed the bridge at Riverwood Ct/Stationcourt Way as part of DART+ West and we have been left as a result with a monstrosity of a bridge at Coolmine Station.

When that happens, other concerns as with encroachment on the canal in other places will be brushed aside.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548218#Comment_119548218

I think you are trying extrapolate a majority consensus from thin air. :)

I think the way these things work, is they get so little official response they don't take the numbers literally but as representative sample. So even a small number of replies has an effect on the process.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548406#Comment_119548406

They opposed the bridge at Riverwood Ct/Stationcourt Way as part of DART+ West and we have been left as a result with a monstrosity of a bridge at Coolmine Station.

Nope. The monstrosity at Coolmine Station was in the original plan, it was always planned in addition to the Riverwood Bridge.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548319#Comment_119548319

i don't think it's just about the technical issues though (and i know this has been done to death on this thread), but putting the greenway between the canal and the railway line would lock it off from most casual use by people in delwood and brompton.

for example, if someone in delwood or brompton wants to go for a walk along the canal, without retracing their steps, it's a 4km walk, but if the greenway opened up on the northside, with access points, it'd be much easier to get to.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548469#Comment_119548469

i'm not trying to claim a minority or majority either way; my point is that AFAIK no-one knows, and the resident's association are claiming a mandate they may not have.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548484#Comment_119548484

Bird in the hand and all that.

magicbastarder

FWIW my father used to be on the resident's association in delwood and left because of some lunatics on it. that was decades ago, though.

IIRC some of them were trying to pass a motion that the kids from the cul de sacs (of which i was one) were not allowed play on delwood green.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548477#Comment_119548477

Its not 4k. Gross exaggeration.

It makes no sense to complain about having to walk when the whole point is going for walk in the first place. Its seriously not that far to either end. Especially not someone who is planning to go a walk in the first place.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548406#Comment_119548406

If you constantly miss-represent things expect not be taken seriously and/or assume your just stirring deliberately.

Coolmine is monstrosity because of bad design no other reason. It entirely unrelated to the other bridge.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548543#Comment_119548543

The cycle bridge aspect at Coolmine wouldn't be needed if the other bridge had gone ahead. The monstrosity of the design only appeared after the other bridge was rejected and was in response to that bridge being rejected.

I said at the time that people should be careful what they wished for, and it came true. Anyway DART+ West is for another thread, so I'll leave it there.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548319#Comment_119548319

Bit dubious to say its not possible when the track is already that side and used for 100yrs or more. If I go down it today thats where I'll be.

Likewise saying is technically impossible. Its not. Its about cost and other things.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548551#Comment_119548551

Digging deeper won't change you're wrong.

They want the Coolmine bridge so they don't have to walk/cycle/wheelchair access around the other new bridge.

A lift and a pedestrian bridge could be fraction of the footprint of what they designed. you'd almost think they did it deliberately so bad no one would accept it. Its grossly over engineered and over spec'd.

magicbastarder

Its not 4k. Gross exaggeration.

can you show me a route where if someone wanted to walk that section of canal without retracing their steps, it won't be 4km? perhaps we're at cross purposes here (and maybe i should have been clearer that i was talking about the 'disputed' section of canal?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548583#Comment_119548583

Ok, I've gone back and checked and you are correct, they did include a cycle bridge in the original proposals.

However, the design has changed from one report to the next.

A lift and a pedestrian bridge would only be feasible if the other bridge at Riverwood catered for cyclists. But it doesn't exist.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548511#Comment_119548511

Well I guess that implies all associations are full of crazy people or something? Guess we should ignore them entirely?

Incidentally I played football on those greens, kids from other estates used to organize friendlies against each other. Maybe that's why tried they to stop it. Their kids were getting hammered. ; )

magicbastarder

wasn't me who was being hammered anyway, i wasn't good enough at football to even subject myself to that beating.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548623#Comment_119548623

There's cycle lanes on the existing Dr Troy bridge. Never mind the new bridge they want to build. These are miniscule distances on a bicycle. I doubt you've ever cycled it. You seem constantly so unfamiliar with the area.

The bridge at Castleknock station does 95% of whats needed at Coolmine in a fraction of the footprint. I know it's too step blah blah. See I'm used to getting my bike into lifts at all the other stations. Even the tiny Docklands station has a lift. It's has like 4 trains a day.

AlanG

As a local I think this will be a great addition to the Delwood, Brompton and Glenville area. It will make it so much safer for kids to cycle in thr area and it will be far more pleasant for people walking to the stations. This will really help the area a lot as we have very few amenities due partially to objections from residents for play facilities and community facilities.

Some neighbours are concerned about the lack of parking but if you look at other places along the greenway such as at Ashtown there has been no great increase in cars parked close to the greenway. Teh vast majority of people using the greenway are walking to it.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548714#Comment_119548714

The bridge at Castleknock Station is a death trap. No room for pedestrians, no room for cyclists.

There is provision for a second bridge adjacent to the west side of that bridge for cyclists and pedestrians.

The cycle bridge isn't about station access, it is about through traffic for sustainable modes of transport.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548753#Comment_119548753

If you read the report, there are an extraordinary number of red herrings being raised by the NIMBYs.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548911#Comment_119548911

If they built a bridge like the one at Castleknock at Coolmine it would have no cars on it. ... That's the whole point. No cars.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548914#Comment_119548914

Lol.

Trying hard to create a fake narrative. Maybe they stopped you playing on a green in the 1950s.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548753#Comment_119548753

if you look at other places along the greenway such as at Ashtown there has been no great increase in cars parked close to the greenway. Teh vast majority of people using the greenway are walking to it.

The concern was as much about people parking in residential streets and walking via the greenway to the train station rather than recreational greenway users. How real that risk is, debatable.

getoutadodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548555#Comment_119548555

C'mon you're flogging a dead horse. I know that stretch since my childhood. Even navigated it years ago on motorbikes tanked up with flagons. But its simply not possible to transform it into a combined cycle/ footpath given its width. Some people just hate change.. Fair enough....i know the feeling. I met a committed cyclist oldie the other day on the canal who lamented the new tarmac surface compared to the good old days of mud and tree roots and the occasional dead rat?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119549240#Comment_119549240

You've gone down it on a Motorbike.... I rest my case.

Its not as wide as they want. But they could clear that bank and make it useable for a fraction of the cost of all this. it would 10 times better than what it is now. and I've been down it not years ago.

I'm not saying it should be that bank. But the difficulty is way over stated. They blew a flipping canal through it. We can't built a path. Lol.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119549214#Comment_119549214

They've had historical and on going problems with parking at the 12th lock, Roselawn, Coolmine/Riverwood and Clonsilla. Seems real to me.

Ashtown has underground parking. So how would you know. Parking on street is a pain there though.

But I don't think its about the greenway. But who knows. Kinda saying it is or isn't a problem based on nothing. just by plucking it out of mid air.

Flinty997

My personal opinion is they should build it on the south side with no entrances and a high fence and compulsory purchased the house across from train station to make an entrance.

Then stage 2 open the entrances on a trial bases with timed gates.

But the north bank wasn't impossible, and wouldn't have had any of these objections. But it would have been compromised by the width. It could be a park on the south bank like opposite the 12th lock.

Flinty997

Currently you can just bypass this stretch on the road if on a bike. It's holding no one back if they really want to use the canal into town they can.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119549614#Comment_119549614

Which route(s) would you suggest? Delwood Road/Roselawn Road or Sycamore Ave/Castleknock Rise/LL Road? Those would be less direct than a towpath route.

muckwarrior

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119549614#Comment_119549614

You could say that about the whole bloody thing. Silly argument.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119550414#Comment_119550414

🚲️ Google maps bridge to bridge.

LaurelLodge 2.2k 7 mins. 
Delwood 2k 7 mins. 
Canal 1.5k 4 mins. 

But its not allowing for the terrain on the canal. Since it gives the same 4 mins for 1.5k on a straight road.

So if there was a greenway in place. You'd save 3 mins. (if empty)

But if you've actually cycled the Greenway you'll know you have to slow down due to pedestrians. (assuming you slow down for pedestrians. So maybe 1~2 mins in the difference. I assume you don't start your journey from the Coolmine bridge. So you'd have bias from which side you start from.

Currently the deep siding takes quite a bit longer on the bike due to the vines/concrete and meeting pedestrians. Its not pleasant on a rigid frame.

I've only done these stretches canal/greenway recently at peak times, sunny day etc. Its been a good year or more since I cycled all the way into town via the canal, and it would have been (off peak) a lot less busy than its now.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119550641#Comment_119550641

This is short stretch easily bypassed, with quiet-ish parallel routes either side of it. That's actually not true of other parts of the canal, especially the longer stretches.

I feel I'm talking with people who never actually use the canal or greenway.

Chrisam

So many experts. Not a single mention of biodiversity. That's 40 years of untouched wilderness, on the north bank, that the council wants to put a 4 metre trackway through. It won't even be a greenway, like the greenway west of Maynooth (which incidentally only has access points every 14kms). This will be an "urban active travel route", which is fine, but let's be clear, it's at the expense of the wildlife. The 24/7 lighting, along the bridges and trackway east of Castleknock (eg Pelletstown), has driven the wildlife out. Now it is proposed to drive it further west, into Kildare. Utterly disgraceful. Forget the residents, these are the actual victims, all because cyclists don't want to cycle 1.5 kms between Coolmine and Castleknock.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119554551#Comment_119554551

I think it more about locals out for a stroll than cyclist. But whatever.

How would you you do it.

magicbastarder

they could plant delwood green up with native woodland as a compensating measure.

getoutadodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119555156#Comment_119555156

Luv it. Re-wild Delwood😉