Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings

Klonker · 14-06-2021 10:10AM

Bit cynical wrote: »

Politically it is a problem if you have to row back on a particular course of action. That is why the authorities are reluctant to ease up too much now in case they need to do a u-turn later.

I'm sure politically some would try make a big deal out of it but that's still not a good enough reason in my opinion.

It's like the situation with the government giving an aim of 80% of adults vaccinated by end of June. I thought this was helpful as it gave an idea of where abouts we would be in terms or vaccination in a few months time. Now it doesn't look we'll hit that due to issues with AZ and J&J and any reasonable person wouldn't blame the government for this but I'm sure some opposition parties and the media will try make an issue of it.

DellyBelly · 14-06-2021 10:19AM

Listening to RTE radio now and they have Dr Gabriel Scally on it and he seems to be putting a dampener on indooor diving due to this Delta variant. He doesn't come across as very positive at all.

FlubberJones · 14-06-2021 10:23AM

DellyBelly wrote: »

Listening to RTE radio now and they have Dr Gabriel Scally on it and he seems to be putting a dampener on indooor diving due to this Delta variant. He doesn't come across as very positive at all.

Is he one of the "zero covid" bunch, sure I heard his comments today on the early radio... sounds a dreary as his words are, nothing but negativity.

VinLieger · 14-06-2021 10:33AM

FlubberJones wrote: »

Is he one of the "zero covid" bunch, sure I heard his comments today on the early radio... sounds a dreary as his words are, nothing but negativity.

Yup hes ISAG so like the rest will lie about the facts and harass anyone who disagrees with him to push his agenda.

Klonker · 14-06-2021 10:34AM

FlubberJones wrote: »

Is he one of the "zero covid" bunch, sure I heard his comments today on the early radio... sounds a dreary as his words are, nothing but negativity.

Yeah Delta variant or not he'd be saying the same thing. That zero covid bunch were to make out it would be a disaster when schools reopened here earlier in the year and it never materialised. When we get closer to the 19th July date for the green cert implementation here they'll all be on the airwaves then too trying to swing public opinion against that too.

JRant · 14-06-2021 11:18AM

average_runner wrote: »

But UK are ahead of us on the vaccine front, so it makes sense that we are behind them.

Correct and has nothing to do with what I was replying to. The poster said we could delay indoor dining because England are pausing the lifting of all restrictions by a few weeks. I was just making the point that we are well behind where England are now so there is no need for us to delay any reopening

JRant · 14-06-2021 11:26AM

Boggles wrote: »

Secondary closed 2 weeks ago, Primary will close here in 2 weeks.

In England they won't close until late July.

Dropping the requirement for masks on the 17th was another telegraphed WTF are ye at moment.

Sure, some would argue it's a WTF moment but it's going to be dropped at some stage and they are trying to ease the restrictions as quickly as possible which is not without merit either. The restrictions were brought in under exceptional circumstances and should require significant evidence for them to remain in place. They were never meant to last this long and used in a "just in case" manner the way we seem to use them.

14-06-2021 11:27AM

Lumen wrote: »

It proved to be an excellent test of how (understandably) triggered some people get over the prospect of social distancing at gigs.

Both Pat Kenny and Luke O'Neil were actually chuckling away about it on Newstalk this morning, with phrases such as "lack of science" and "waste of time" mentioned by them. I guess they were triggered too.

charlie14 · 14-06-2021 11:34AM

niallo27 wrote: »

So everytime numbers go up its because of winging it. Did the government and nphet wing it everytime we locked down so far if that's the case.

No, every time the numbers went up and the government re-imposed lockdown the anti-lockdown brigade whinged.
Now apparently it`s not a problem for them if by following some other country or state, (and they are not even sure which country or state this is),and this mysterious country or state as well as ourselves get it wrong and have to go back into lockdown, then there is no problem for them in that whatsoever.

Even by the often movement of goalposts to suit the narrative here, that to me is a particularly strange one.

Boggles · 14-06-2021 11:34AM

JRant wrote: »

Sure, some would argue it's a WTF moment but it's going to be dropped at some stage and they are trying to ease the restrictions as quickly as possible which is not without merit either. The restrictions were brought in under exceptional circumstances and should require significant evidence for them to remain in place. They were never meant to last this long and used in a "just in case" manner the way we seem to use them.

Wearing a mask is the lowest of hanging fruit.

Abandoning them (as you try to power vaccinate the populous) for millions of 12-19 years old indoors was and has proved to be next level idiotic.

JRant · 14-06-2021 11:41AM

Boggles wrote: »

Wearing a mask is the lowest of hanging fruit.

Abandoning them (as you try to power vaccinate the populous) for millions of 12-19 years old indoors was and has proved to be next level idiotic.

Is that what's driving their current level of cases/hospitalisations?
From reading some reports on various British website's it seems to be that the BAME community have a low uptake on vaccines and this is where the pockets of clusters are more pronounced.

charlie14 · 14-06-2021 11:44AM

Klonker wrote: »

So constant lockdown is better for mental health than lockdown, then easing for a period, lockdown again and then easing again? OK, whatever you think but I know which one I'd rather and which I'd think is better for my mental health.

So you believe essentially that it is better to have a constant circle of lockdowns and easing that following an approach where hopefully we will not have another lockdown. Here was me believing you were anti- lockdown in any form.

JRant · 14-06-2021 11:55AM

charlie14 wrote: »

So you believe essentially that it is better to have a constant circle of lockdowns and easing that following an approach where hopefully we will not have another lockdown. Here was me believing you were anti- lockdown in any form.

There are many ways to look at this.

One is to say if we stay in lockdown for longer we won't have to go back into it. This ignores the personal and economic toll it takes on the entire population.

Another way is to ease restrictions as quickly and safely as possible while understanding there are negatives to this approach, such as rising cases etc. Now, you may have to temporarily empose some additional restrictions as you go bit overall it means more of normality is returned at a quicker pace.

Some argue the first way is the only way and that seems to have been the approach followed here. Their have been positives to this approach but also some very real negatives.

A lot of other countries have gone for the second approach but varying levels of success and some had to temporarily rollback for a period. Overall, I would rather see restrictions dropped as quickly and safely as possible. A lot of our civil liberties are/were suspended and these should be reinstated as soon as possible, not when a government feel like it.

Boggles · 14-06-2021 12:01PM

JRant wrote: »

Is that what's driving their current level of cases/hospitalisations?
From reading some reports on various British website's it seems to be that the BAME community have a low uptake on vaccines and this is where the pockets of clusters are more pronounced.

What's driving it is a variant that has a far higher attack rate indoors.

The BAME community also attend schools.

charlie14 · 14-06-2021 12:02PM

normanoffside wrote: »

I'd rather have things open than not so yes..

A free and self administered antigen test is sufficient as is a previous infection or and a single vaccine shot.
Stop calling it a vaccine passport because it is not.

It is required for entry into any business premises in Denmark so if it is not a vaccine passport then what is it ?

I very much doubt that with the requirements to obtain one being proof of fully vaccinated, two weeks after a single dose, or having been previously infected, that a self administered antigen test would suffice.
You appear to believe it is though ?

JRant · 14-06-2021 12:02PM

Boggles wrote: »

What's driving it is a variant that has a far higher attack rate indoors.

The BAME community also attend schools.

It's the school going ages that are driving this current rise in cases/hospitalisations then?

charlie14 · 14-06-2021 12:13PM

JRant wrote: »

There are many ways to look at this.

One is to say if we stay in lockdown for longer we won't have to go back into it. This ignores the personal and economic toll it takes on the entire population.

Another way is to ease restrictions as quickly and safely as possible while understanding there are negatives to this approach, such as rising cases etc. Now, you may have to temporarily empose some additional restrictions as you go bit overall it means more of normality is returned at a quicker pace.

Some argue the first way is the only way and that seems to have been the approach followed here. Their have been positives to this approach but also some very real negatives.

A lot of other countries have gone for the second approach but varying levels of success and some had to temporarily rollback for a period. Overall, I would rather see restrictions dropped as quickly and safely as possible. A lot of our civil liberties are/were suspended and these should be reinstated as soon as possible, not when a government feel like it.

Looking at other that jumped the gun on reopening and having to go back into lockdown I would not see as a great example of why we should now blindly follow them.

Everybody wants restrictions dropped as quickly and as safely as possible. Achieving that to me is following the U.K. approach, which we are, based on vaccination levels, hospitalised and ICU numbers.

I don`t buy into this whole conspiracy theory on the suppression of civil liberties based on nothing more than our government doing so just "because they can" nonsense.

seamus · 14-06-2021 12:21PM

JRant wrote: »

Is that what's driving their current level of cases/hospitalisations?
From reading some reports on various British website's it seems to be that the BAME community have a low uptake on vaccines and this is where the pockets of clusters are more pronounced.

Their numbers are being driven by a cultural shift, the lifting the masks restrictions is just one in a series of measures taken which signalled to the UK public "this thing is over, all that's left to do is to lift restrictions".

No matter what you do, the public will pre-empt you. If you signal a softening of restrictions in two weeks, they'll drop their guard today. If you set out a roadmap that aims to end all restrictions by 21st June, then people will start abandoning all guideliness by the start of June. If you tell a completely unvaccinated cohort to stop wearing masks indoors, then you're saying, "The pandemic is over".

Remember this? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/22/covid-pandemic-britain/

This is the mess the UK have made of it. Johnson has been grandstanding on the issue. Harking back to WWII nostalgia and propaganda to try and create the illusion that plucky old Blighty, going it alone and with fighting spirit, has defeated this virus where everyone else has failed.

They've declared the war over, so people have stopped fighting. And now they're seeing a resurgence.

You can hate the "abundance of caution" approach all you like, but we know that you have to keep pumping the brakes, you have to make sure that the public don't abandon the fight altogether and let it run out of control again.

That's what the UK failed to do. It's not just the dropping of masks, it's the signal that such a measure puts into the public consciousness.

JRant · 14-06-2021 12:26PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Looking at other that jumped the gun on reopening and having to go back into lockdown I would not see as a great example of why we should now blindly follow them.

Everybody wants restrictions dropped as quickly and as safely as possible. Achieving that to me is following the U.K. approach, which we are, based on vaccination levels, hospitalised and ICU numbers.

I don`t buy into this whole conspiracy theory on the suppression of civil liberties based on nothing more than our government doing so just "because they can" nonsense.

Couple of things to unpack here.

First, is that our official approach here? I haven't seen anything communicated by the government to say we are following Britain. I did see a paper/release from Nolan's modelling group that outlined different scenarios based on R0 numbers but didn't see anything else based on specific metrics.

Second, what has conspiracy theories got to do with what I posted? The measures were brought in on good faith when much was unknown about this virus. Since then we've learned a great deal but our approach seems to have stagnated. What I am saying is that the continued suppression of civil liberties needs to be carefully balanced with the threat posed and it is very hard to justify when you do look at vaccination levels and hospital cases. It should never be the case that the government decide to leave fairly draconian measures in place because of what "might" happen. They should only be used if and when required. There is nothing conspiratorial about that.

Onion Bahji · 14-06-2021 12:26PM

Hi lads sorry if it’s already been asked but just wondering - is it true that you’ll be able to travel with the proposed green card system on the basis of a clear antigen test either side of your destination? I had assumed PCR test would be required.

Boggles · 14-06-2021 12:27PM

JRant wrote: »

It's the school going ages that are driving this current rise in cases/hospitalisations then?

I just told you what is driving the current cases.

The majority of these would be in age groups not vaccinated or at least not fully vaccinated. But not exclusive to these.

Which of course includes virtually all under the age of 19.

Which again begs the question, why dispense with the easiest less hassle mitigation tool in secondary schools?

Up until May 17th, they had a policy of self testing at home and masks, only one could be monitored.

Daft, considering they opened so much and had only 2 months to go before a plan put in place to at least vaccinate over 12s.

charlie14 · 14-06-2021 12:37PM

JRant wrote: »

Couple of things to unpack here.

First, is that our official approach here? I haven't seen anything communicated by the government to say we are following Britain. I did see a paper/release from Nolan's modelling group that outlined different scenarios based on R0 numbers but didn't see anything else based on specific metrics.

Second, what has conspiracy theories got to do with what I posted? The measures were brought in on good faith when much was unknown about this virus. Since then we've learned a great deal but our approach seems to have stagnated. What I am saying is that the continued suppression of civil liberties needs to be carefully balanced with the threat posed and it is very hard to justify when you do look at vaccination levels and hospital cases. It should never be the case that the government decide to leave fairly draconian measures in place because of what "might" happen. They should only be used if and when required. There is nothing conspiratorial about that.

I would have though it is pretty obvious we have been following the U.K. approach rather than that of anyone else or doing a solo run off our own. Especially as our reopening phases so far and the next phase coinciding with the vaccination levels the U.K. were at when doing the same.

I really do not see where this suppression of civil liberties is coming from or any viable reason some believe they are being denied. Restrictions have, and will be lifted in line with each phase of reopening.

seamus · 14-06-2021 12:43PM

Onion Bahji wrote: »

Hi lads sorry if it’s already been asked but just wondering - is it true that you’ll be able to travel with the proposed green card system on the basis of a clear antigen test either side of your destination? I had assumed PCR test would be required.

Rapid antigen tests are part of the EU system, but it can't just be any antigen test.
The centre which carries out the test has to be properly authorised in order to issue the certificate. If there are no authorised antigen testing centres, then you will have to get a PCR test to get your certificate.

TomSweeney · 14-06-2021 12:49PM

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0614/1227925-ireland-covid/

...And we're off ...

Dr Gabriel Scally said the global population will "live more cautiously" for at least another two years, due to Covid-19 and the possible emergence of other variants.

The sooner people stop listening to these sociopath control freaks the better.

Make no mistake - these people WANT these new strains to be vaccine resistant, they WANT carnage in the hospitals.

JRant · 14-06-2021 01:56PM

seamus wrote: »

Their numbers are being driven by a cultural shift, the lifting the masks restrictions is just one in a series of measures taken which signalled to the UK public "this thing is over, all that's left to do is to lift restrictions".

No matter what you do, the public will pre-empt you. If you signal a softening of restrictions in two weeks, they'll drop their guard today. If you set out a roadmap that aims to end all restrictions by 21st June, then people will start abandoning all guideliness by the start of June. If you tell a completely unvaccinated cohort to stop wearing masks indoors, then you're saying, "The pandemic is over".

Remember this? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/22/covid-pandemic-britain/

This is the mess the UK have made of it. Johnson has been grandstanding on the issue. Harking back to WWII nostalgia and propaganda to try and create the illusion that plucky old Blighty, going it alone and with fighting spirit, has defeated this virus where everyone else has failed.

They've declared the war over, so people have stopped fighting. And now they're seeing a resurgence.

You can hate the "abundance of caution" approach all you like, but we know that you have to keep pumping the brakes, you have to make sure that the public don't abandon the fight altogether and let it run out of control again.

That's what the UK failed to do. It's not just the dropping of masks, it's the signal that such a measure puts into the public consciousness.

They are delaying the full lifting of all restrictions by 4 weeks, pumping the brakes if you will. It's not like they are going back into lockdown. It was an ambitious reopening that hasn't gone fully to plan but they are still in a very good place. Sure, Boris has come out with some jingoistic nonsense but the move to delay shows a more pragmatic approach than just open up at all costs.

TomSweeney · 14-06-2021 01:59PM

JRant wrote: »

They are delaying the full lifting of all restrictions by 4 weeks, pumping the brakes if you will. It's not like they are going back into lockdown. It was an ambitious reopening that hasn't gone fully to plan but they are still in a very good place. Sure, Boris has come out with some jingoistic nonsense but the move to delay shows a more pragmatic approach than just open up at all costs.

And in 4 weeks when they delay again ??

Klonker · 14-06-2021 02:01PM

charlie14 wrote: »

So you believe essentially that it is better to have a constant circle of lockdowns and easing that following an approach where hopefully we will not have another lockdown. Here was me believing you were anti- lockdown in any form.

Thats not what I essentially believe. You're trying to make out that Germany and France are somehow in a worse place than us by exiting their version of level 5 lockdown and then having to re enter it again while for all that time we remained in level 5. You'd have a point if we were now ahead of them in our reopening but we're not, we are still well behind them and will continue to be.

Just to point out one comparison. We will be a full 7 weeks behind Germany and 6 weeks behind France signing up to the Green Cert and with that we'll still have harsher rules around it.

I'm not going to respond to you anymore on this topic. You either get it and are pretending you don't or else you just somehow can't comprehend what I'm saying to you. Either way, me repeating it again isn't going to change that.

14-06-2021 02:04PM

puzl wrote: »

We didn't even have a full level 5 lockdown last December when we were *clearly* in the middle of a third wave. How paranoid do you have to be to imagine a lockdown next December when 70% of the population is vaccinated?

Jesus talk about cherrypicking your facts.

We only had a lockdown for 2 months before and 4 months after the date you chosen where we had a very, very brief opening.

I can't believe people are calling the British approach a failure, even with their delay they're miles ahead of us in opening. I'd certainly rather be there than here.

Boggles · 14-06-2021 02:27PM

JRant wrote: »

They are delaying the full lifting of all restrictions by 4 weeks, pumping the brakes if you will. It's not like they are going back into lockdown. It was an ambitious reopening that hasn't gone fully to plan but they are still in a very good place. Sure, Boris has come out with some jingoistic nonsense but the move to delay shows a more pragmatic approach than just open up at all costs.

I think you are underplaying the potential ramifications, half the head bangers in his party will now spend the week ranting and raving which will filter through to the populous.

Cancelling "Freedom Day" will do absolutely nothing to address the current rate of growth, which if is thought to be doubling every 7 days may cause potential problems especially if a sizable portion of the populous do not adhere to what mitigation there is left.

It will be a very interesting month for many reasons, no more so than how do they suppress the current exponential growth without restrictive mitigation.

JRant · 14-06-2021 02:52PM

Boggles wrote: »

I think you are underplaying the potential ramifications, half the head bangers in his party will now spend the week ranting and raving which will filter through to the populous.

Cancelling "Freedom Day" will do absolutely nothing to address the current rate of growth, which if is thought to be doubling every 7 days may cause potential problems especially if a sizable portion of the populous do not adhere to what mitigation there is left.

It will be a very interesting month for many reasons, no more so than how do they suppress the current exponential growth without restrictive mitigation.

Well for better or worse they are the canary down the coal mine now to see if a steady increase in cases has a material effect on hospital/death numbers with so many people vaccinated.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings