Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings

paddyisreal · 13-06-2021 10:29PM

Graham wrote: »

I didn't ask.

I (like most) have much more to gain from seeing the country fully reopened, The last 15 months have not been particularly kind financially or otherwise.

I happen to believe that's a strong and sustainable reopening is best achieved from a strong base. A vaccinated population, consistently low covid hospitalisations and consistently low infections. I think reopening too soon only to flip-flop precariously would do more damage than good.

I think we currently have hospitalisations and case numbers under control and we've largely avoided any significant impact from the Delta variant so far (unlike our nearest neighbour and largest trading partner the UK). The missing piece now is vaccinations and that is a situation is improving rapidly.

It would be foolish to squander our current strong position for the sake of a marginally faster reopening.

fair enough good straight answer. Best of luck when things do open up eventually

niallo27 · 13-06-2021 10:44PM

Graham wrote: »

Nope

Ok so you support the current roadmap the government have laid out even though you don't know what criteria it's based on. You said earlier you didn't know the criteria.

JRant · 13-06-2021 11:12PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Ok so you support the current roadmap the government have laid out even though you don't know what criteria it's based on. You said earlier you didn't know the criteria.

We are not, I repeat not, using a date based approach. The next round of easing will be on the 5 July. The criteria is that on the 5 July we may open indoor dining. It's based on a few more weeks of doing the right thing thing.

Graham · 13-06-2021 11:22PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Ok so you support the current roadmap the government have laid out even though you don't know what criteria it's based on. You said earlier you didn't know the criteria.

I laid out my own thinking about 5 posts back in what I thought were fairly clear terms.

Graham · 13-06-2021 11:24PM

paddyisreal wrote: »

fair enough good straight answer. Best of luck when things do open up eventually

Thanks Paddy, appreciated.

I think it sometimes gets lost in this thread that we all ultimately want the same thing regardless of any disagreement about how we get there.

Tenger · 14-06-2021 12:24AM

gozunda wrote: »

.....+

I honestly thought that most of conspiracy stuff came US conspiracy sites. Sadly a lot seems home grown at this stage.

I have spent far too much time lurking in conspiracy/anti-lockdown groups on Telegram over the last 10-15 months. (thrown out of 8-10 for asking questions)
There is a definite pipeline from the US groups to Irish and/or Europe.) I see stuff in Qanon/MAGA groups in the US and then 4-8 days later it has been righ purposed in the Irish or UK groups I am in.
Funny how the font and design for the protests in towns in Ireland yesterday is similar to those all around the globe.

niallo27 · 14-06-2021 05:19AM

JRant wrote: »

We are not, I repeat not, using a date based approach. The next round of easing will be on the 5 July. The criteria is that on the 5 July we may open indoor dining. It's based on a few more weeks of doing the right thing thing.

How exactly do you quantify doing the right thing.

JRant · 14-06-2021 07:16AM

niallo27 wrote: »

How exactly do you quantify doing the right thing.

Nobody knows Niallo, that's the problem. Hospital numbers are as low as they'll get, cases are still falling even though we're testing more and more people. I can only presume NPHET/Government are using vaccine percentage as the metric for easing further. They have a set number in mind before lifting of more restrictions and are sticking to it regardless of the other factors.

Marcusm · 14-06-2021 07:31AM

Graham wrote: »

Outdoor hospitality would be unlikely to see anything like the numbers that you'd find at a concert so the comparison isn't particularly valid.

It was an unarguably cautious first trial, what future trials are planned I don't know as can probably be said about most posters commenting.

Hopefully it won't be too relevant anyway as the vaccination program progresses.

Outdoor hospitality would have people in much closer contact which is the key point.

Marcusm · 14-06-2021 07:33AM

Graham wrote: »

Uncontrolled as in there's no way of assessing either the parameters or the results.

Not really much of a 'test'.

The Iveagh gardens event involved neither pre or post testing and, as such, it provides no discernible evidence as might been seen to be evinced from an experiment or test.

Marcusm · 14-06-2021 07:41AM

gozunda wrote: »

Except maybe keeping down the rate of infection and deaths while we roll out the largest vaccination programme in the history of the state?

Looks like we're not doing too bad there tbf.

Fairly hillarious that some are getting their knickers in a knot about the Iveagh gardens thing.

Looks like the crowd was fairly happy anyway

https://extra.ie/2021/06/11/entertainment/music/live-music-returns

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Btw not more of that ****e throwing at those you don't agree with Paddy? Its been done too death already. But no there's no hive mind put there despite all the hand wringing and gnashing of teeth ...

Do you think that the Iveagh Gardens event was a valuable use of government resources designed to discern information of use to determine the extent to which an element of normality could be anticipated in the near future for live events? I certainly don’t and that’s why I bemoan it occurring. It was an inefficient sop by Catherine Martin and I wish there was the ability to surcharge her for it. A properly designed event taking account of restrictions here and any data/evidence which might be validated from overseas would be useful in seeing how far/ uickly/slowly it is appropriate to move. It did not move that one jot forward.

Lumen · 14-06-2021 08:22AM

Marcusm wrote: »

The Iveagh gardens event involved neither pre or post testing and, as such, it provides no discernible evidence as might been seen to be evinced from an experiment or test.

It proved to be an excellent test of how (understandably) triggered some people get over the prospect of social distancing at gigs.

Vicxas · 14-06-2021 09:16AM

Have a feeling with the stalling in some of the J&J vaccines and the UK pushing back their reopening for 4 weeks that we're going to be pushing back on indoor dining.

TomSweeney · 14-06-2021 09:23AM

So I see the UK have extended their lockdown - and so it begins,

Whats the story with the vacciness in Israel and the UK, why are they slowing down ?

JRant · 14-06-2021 09:24AM

Marcusm wrote: »

Do you think that the Iveagh Gardens event was a valuable use of government resources designed to discern information of use to determine the extent to which an element of normality could be anticipated in the near future for live events? I certainly don’t and that’s why I bemoan it occurring. It was an inefficient sop by Catherine Martin and I wish there was the ability to surcharge her for it. A properly designed event taking account of restrictions here and any data/evidence which might be validated from overseas would be useful in seeing how far/ uickly/slowly it is appropriate to move. It did not move that one jot forward.

It was a pure folly designed by people who are craictose intolerant.

14-06-2021 09:24AM

Vicxas wrote: »

Have a feeling with the stalling in some of the J&J vaccines and the UK pushing back their reopening for 4 weeks that we're going to be pushing back on indoor dining.

There is no reason to push back on indoor dining. Numbers in hospitals dropping. Vaccines being rolled out. Most other businesses are opened now

puzl · 14-06-2021 09:32AM

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no reason to push back on indoor dining. Numbers in hospitals dropping. Vaccines being rolled out. Most other businesses are opened now

No reason yet. Our weekly cases are going down at a very good rate ( -20% last 7 days vs 7 days before ) and if this trend continues or stays flat then there's nothing to stop us from having a semi-normal summer with indoor dining, gigs, sports matches ( albeit with limited capacity ).

However, if the numbers start to spike like they have in the UK ( +50% ) then they'll have to reconsider some of the relaxations, but even then hopefully there'll still be plenty of room for manoeuvre.

suicide_circus · 14-06-2021 09:34AM

Stradbally residents want Electric Picnic cancelled in September. Now obviously some of the attendees won't be vaccinated by then but having been there myself years ago, we didn't interact with locals at all. You arrive, park in one big field, set up your tent in another big field and enjoy the entertainment in another big field. I can understand if they just want rid of the annual nuisance and covid is a good excuse or what?

Boggles · 14-06-2021 09:34AM

Vicxas wrote: »

Have a feeling with the stalling in some of the J&J vaccines and the UK pushing back their reopening for 4 weeks that we're going to be pushing back on indoor dining.

Jansen is only recommended for the 50-69 cohort.

140,000 over 50 remain unvaccinated apparently, The pharmacists are getting 60,000 doses.

Hopefully that cohort come forward and we put a serious dent in them with the one shot.

The pharmacies will be getting Pfizer in a few weeks to further help inoculate the people who fall through the cracks, the majority of the GPs have their books done to 40 and in some cases people in their 30s.

We will be donating Jansen and AZ by the Autumn.

RE the UK, 'Freedom Day' was always folly.

But Boris will be Boris.

TomSweeney · 14-06-2021 09:37AM

puzl wrote: »

No reason yet. Our weekly cases are going down at a very good rate ( -20% last 7 days vs 7 days before ) and if this trend continues or stays flat then there's nothing to stop us from having a semi-normal summer with indoor dining, gigs, sports matches ( albeit with limited capacity ).

However, if the numbers start to spike like they have in the UK ( +50% ) then they'll have to reconsider some of the relaxations, but even then hopefully there'll still be plenty of room for manoeuvre.

Cases cases cases - meaningless now, it's been used as an excuse as sociopaths in charge want this to continue.

Just wait till you see, full level 5 lockdown by December.

Dr. Bre · 14-06-2021 09:37AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Stradbally residents want Electric Picnic cancelled in September. Now obviously some of the attendees won't be vaccinated by then but having been there myself years ago, we didn't interact with locals at all. You arrive, park in one big field, set up your tent in another big field and enjoy the entertainment in another big field. I can understand if they just want rid of the annual nuisance and covid is a good excuse or what?

What about local businesses from stradbally ? Thought they would do well from EP.

JRant · 14-06-2021 09:38AM

Vicxas wrote: »

Have a feeling with the stalling in some of the J&J vaccines and the UK pushing back their reopening for 4 weeks that we're going to be pushing back on indoor dining.

We are still a long way from the current level of restrictions present in England. Even when we move to the next phase of reopening in July we will only be where they were in May.

Bit cynical · 14-06-2021 09:41AM

Klonker wrote: »

Yes I'd 100% rather be Germany and France. What is so wrong about being ambitious, needing to take a step back and them move forward again rather than hiding under a rock until its all over. I just can't understand this argument thats thrown out time and time again here and by the government. Like it would make sense if now France and Germany were behind us on their reopening because of their early easing and then reimposing of restrictions but they're not, they're still well ahead of us. It makes no sense and doesn't matter how many times it's repeated it still won't make sense.

Politically it is a problem if you have to row back on a particular course of action. That is why the authorities are reluctant to ease up too much now in case they need to do a u-turn later.

average_runner · 14-06-2021 09:41AM

JRant wrote: »

We are still a long way from the current level of restrictions present in England. Even when we move to the next phase of reopening in July we will only be where they were in May.

But UK are ahead of us on the vaccine front, so it makes sense that we are behind them.

average_runner · 14-06-2021 09:44AM

Bit cynical wrote: »

Politically it is a problem if you have to row back on a particular course of action. That is why the authorities are reluctant to ease up too much now in case they need to do a u-turn later.

Also we don't have the medical care they have over there.

puzl · 14-06-2021 09:47AM

TomSweeney wrote: »

So I see the UK have extended their lockdown - and so it begins,

Whats the story with the vacciness in Israel and the UK, why are they slowing down ?

Israel have yet to start vaccinating under 16s, expect that graph to shoot up once they start that process. For now they've hit, or are coming close to, vaccine saturation - where the 1 million or so who haven't yet taken up a vaccine appointment are either vaccine hesitant or antivax. Israel has achieved amazing results with around 90% uptake in older cohorts tailing off to around 70% in younger cohorts.

Israel have achieved herd immunity now ( or are close to it ) and are really reaping the benefits of it - currently around 180 known cases of coronavirus in the entire country. This week they are lifting the indoor mask mandate. If this is the future that awaits us as we continue our vaccination then we can expect major results by the end of the summer

The UK are in a different situation because they chose to prioritise first doses and now have a large cohort who have yet to receive full vaccination. I think they made the right call to extend relaxation by 4 weeks because they've left themselves exposed to this exact scenario with their strategy and the numbers support it. Over the next month they should be able to make massive progress in second dose rollout and end up in a similar situation to Israel ( Israel used Pfizer-Biontech only, the UK are very reliant on AZ )

Graham · 14-06-2021 09:48AM

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no reason to push back on indoor dining. Numbers in hospitals dropping. Vaccines being rolled out. Most other businesses are opened now

The only potential fly in the ointment I can see at the moment is the potential shortfall on the 600,00 J & J vaccines and 365,000 AZ vaccines that were due by the end of June.

That's potentially a large percentage of the population we'd anticipated being fully or partially vaccinated by early July that now might not be.

That's not to say I expect the next phase to be delayed, I don't know the actual number of vaccine deliveries or if any other manufacturers have stepped in with increased supply.

I don't think the UK delays will impact here as they're largely connected to the Delta variant which we've largely avoided so far.

Boggles · 14-06-2021 09:51AM

JRant wrote: »

We are still a long way from the current level of restrictions present in England. Even when we move to the next phase of reopening in July we will only be where they were in May.

Secondary closed 2 weeks ago, Primary will close here in 2 weeks.

In England they won't close until late July.

Dropping the requirement for masks on the 17th was another telegraphed WTF are ye at moment.

puzl · 14-06-2021 09:54AM

TomSweeney wrote: »

Cases cases cases - meaningless now, it's been used as an excuse as sociopaths in charge want this to continue.

Just wait till you see, full level 5 lockdown by December.

We didn't even have a full level 5 lockdown last December when we were *clearly* in the middle of a third wave. How paranoid do you have to be to imagine a lockdown next December when 70% of the population is vaccinated?

the kelt · 14-06-2021 09:55AM

Vicxas wrote: »

Have a feeling with the stalling in some of the J&J vaccines and the UK pushing back their reopening for 4 weeks that we're going to be pushing back on indoor dining.

Why?

Even with our plan for the 5th of July we would still be behind the uk's opening up as it currently stands!

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings