Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

gozunda

niallo27 wrote: »

I'll put that on the list of what nobody said, what requirements do you think they are using compared to us, I asked Graham and he hadn't a clue what was going on.

Thats a question btw - as indicated by the question mark at the end. I'm asking because it seems a logical outcome of what you stated viz.

niallo27 wrote:

Other countries across Europe with same vaccination levels are miles ahead of us in terms of crowds...

So I'm asking - are you saying/ suggesting we should do exactly what everyone else is doing regardless?

Or as we're miles ahead compared to our nearest European neighbours in terms of low infection and death rates - do you think they should copy us?

niallo27

gozunda wrote: »

Thats a question btw - as indicated by the question mark at the end. I'm asking because it seems a logical outcome of what you stated viz.



So I'm asking - are you saying/ suggesting we should do exactly what everyone else is doing regardless?

Or as we're miles ahead compared to our nearest European neighbours in terms of low infection and death rates - do you think they should copy us?

That's the thing with you, everything is binary for you, you have no scope to think for yourself.

charlie14

Klonker wrote: »

Lets compare us to France and Germany so. Both eased restrictions early in the year, had to reverse for short period, now have eased further and are well ahead of Ireland in reopening.

Ireland just stayed in lockdown the whole time.

Yes I'd 100% rather be Germany and France. What is so wrong about being ambitious, needing to take a step back and them move forward again rather than hiding under a rock until its all over. I just can't understand this argument thats thrown out time and time again here and by the government. Like it would make sense if now France and Germany were behind us on their reopening because of their early easing and then reimposing of restrictions but they're not, they're still well ahead of us. It makes no sense and doesn't matter how many times it's repeated it still won't make sense.

Let`s look at Germany and France indeed.

They both exited lockdown to early and had to apply "emergency brakes" and bring in curfews.
If we had done the same, you and every other "open everything yesterday" poster here would have been throwing hissy fits.

There was only one country in Europe that had data on reopening at various stages based on vaccination levels and hospital and ICU numbers, the U.K. We followed, and are following, their reopening on that basis.
Even if some here would like us to believe there is uniformity all over the rest of Europe of countries reopening and dropping the same level of restrictions when doing so that is just not true. They are basically winging it and hoping for the best.

One of the main moans on here from anti-lockdown posters has been in relation to mental health, but when it comes to waiting a few weeks and following the data of a country that is ahead of us in vaccine levels, they would be quite happy to forget that approach and do like France and Germany did and perhaps have to go back into lockdown.
I cannot see that being a great boost to mental health, but then with much of the anti-lockdown arguement, it`s very much a moveable feast when it doesn`t suit the narrative at any given time.

normanoffside

charlie14 wrote: »

BTW. in Denmark you cannot get a burger inside unless you have a vaccine passport. You cannot enter any business without one. Even a hairdresser.

Yeah except it's not a vaccine passport.
Its Vaccine, test or recovery.
You can take a free rapid antigen test provided by the government (you know the ones NPHET thinks are snake oil) and that allows you to do everything for 72 hours, then you can take another self administered and free test to activate the pass again.

charlie14

niallo27 wrote: »

People do realise that most of germany requires no antigen tests and they are all planning their holidays right now.

"most of Germany requires no antigen tests" Germany are not even in agreement on a uniform approach within their country, yet you seem to believe there is some uniformed approach on reopening and restrictions being dropped practiced in Europe that we should be following.

Strange.

Klonker

charlie14 wrote: »

Let`s look at Germany and France indeed.

They both exited lockdown to early and had to apply "emergency brakes" and bring in curfews.
If we had done the same, you and every other "open everything yesterday" poster here would have been throwing hissy fits.

There was only one country in Europe that had data on reopening at various stages based on vaccination levels and hospital and ICU numbers, the U.K. We followed, and are following, their reopening on that basis.
Even if some here would like us to believe there is uniformity all over the rest of Europe of countries reopening and dropping the same level of restrictions when doing so that is just not true. They are basically winging it and hoping for the best.

One of the main moans on here from anti-lockdown posters has been in relation to mental health, but when it comes to waiting a few weeks and following the data of a country that is ahead of us in vaccine levels, they would be quite happy to forget that approach and do like France and Germany did and perhaps have to go back into lockdown.
I cannot see that being a great boost to mental health, but then with much of the anti-lockdown arguement, it`s very much a moveable feast when it doesn`t suit the narrative at any given time.

None of what you said there disputes what I said. France and Germany exited lockdown, had to go back into lockdown and exited again, all the while we stayed in lockdown for that complete time and more time after that. How is what Ireland did any better or easier for us. You'd have a point if we exited lockdown before them because they had to take the step backwards but we didn't so I actually don't know what point you're trying to make.

niallo27

charlie14 wrote: »

Let`s look at Germany and France indeed.

They both exited lockdown to early and had to apply "emergency brakes" and bring in curfews.
If we had done the same, you and every other "open everything yesterday" poster here would have been throwing hissy fits.

There was only one country in Europe that had data on reopening at various stages based on vaccination levels and hospital and ICU numbers, the U.K. We followed, and are following, their reopening on that basis.
Even if some here would like us to believe there is uniformity all over the rest of Europe of countries reopening and dropping the same level of restrictions when doing so that is just not true. They are basically winging it and hoping for the best.

One of the main moans on here from anti-lockdown posters has been in relation to mental health, but when it comes to waiting a few weeks and following the data of a country that is ahead of us in vaccine levels, they would be quite happy to forget that approach and do like France and Germany did and perhaps have to go back into lockdown.
I cannot see that being a great boost to mental health, but then with much of the anti-lockdown arguement, it`s very much a moveable feast when it doesn`t suit the narrative at any given time.

How can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you are saying some of the richest and most powerful countries in the world are winging it and hoping for the best.

niallo27

charlie14 wrote: »

"most of Germany requires no antigen tests" Germany are not even in agreement on a uniform approach within their country, yet you seem to believe there is some uniformed approach on reopening and restrictions being dropped practiced in Europe that we should be following.

Strange.

Can you quote where I said that please.

charlie14

normanoffside wrote: »

Yeah except it's not a vaccine passport.
Its Vaccine, test or recovery.
You can take a free rapid antigen test provided by the government (you know the ones NPHET thinks are snake oil) and that allows you to do everything for 72 hours, then you can take another self administered and free test to activate the pass again.

So you favour us doing the same ?
A vaccine digital passport required showing you have been fully vaccinated, have had your first shot 2 weeks prior, have a valid, (not self administered) antigen test within the previous 3 days or have recovered from Covid before you can enter any business, restaurants, bars, hairdressers, cinema`s museums etc.

If we had even proposed that you would be on here going ballistic.

gozunda

niallo27 wrote: »

That's the thing with you, everything is binary for you, you have no scope to think for yourself.

Lol. I could just as easily make the same statement that you have no apparent "scope to think for yourself" going by the lack of any answer to the question asked - but let's keep this discussion out of the sewer for the moment.

You've stated something and I asked about it. So back to the question asked.

In your own statement you detailed other countries being away ahead of us with crowds etc with the apparent suggestion we should follow them because of that or are you suggesting something else?

charlie14

niallo27 wrote: »

Can you quote where I said that please.

Do you even read your own posts ?
A few posts back. #6065

.

charlie14

niallo27 wrote: »

How can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you are saying some of the richest and most powerful countries in the world are winging it and hoping for the best.

They were every bit as rich 2 months ago as they are now and they winged it then and got it wrong were they not ?

charlie14

Klonker wrote: »

None of what you said there disputes what I said. France and Germany exited lockdown, had to go back into lockdown and exited again, all the while we stayed in lockdown for that complete time and more time after that. How is what Ireland did any better or easier for us. You'd have a point if we exited lockdown before them because they had to take the step backwards but we didn't so I actually don't know what point you're trying to make.

I believe you are very aware of the point as was making. It wasn`t complicated. Especially with your total avoidance of the point I was making on mental health and it being a movable feast for anti-lockdown posters when it doesn`t fit the narrative.

Klonker

charlie14 wrote: »

I believe you are very aware of the point as was making. It wasn`t complicated. Especially with your total avoidance of the point I was making on mental health and it being a movable feast for anti-lockdown posters when it doesn`t fit the narrative.

So constant lockdown is better for mental health than lockdown, then easing for a period, lockdown again and then easing again? OK, whatever you think but I know which one I'd rather and which I'd think is better for my mental health.

niallo27

gozunda wrote: »

Lol. I could just as easily make the same statement that you have no apparent "scope to think for yourself" going by the lack of any answer to the question asked - but let's keep this discussion out of the sewer for the moment.

You've stated something and I asked about it. So back to the question asked.

In your own statement you detailed other countries being away ahead of us with crowds etc with the apparent suggestion we should follow them because of that or are you suggesting something else?

They are all at different levels but for me all these levels are ahead of us and I have yet to see the criteria why this is. Yes I personally think we should be more relaxed than we are, I think it's perfectly fair to ask what criteria has us so restricted.

niallo27

charlie14 wrote: »

They were every bit as rich 2 months ago as they are now and they winged it then and got it wrong were they not ?

So everytime numbers go up its because of winging it. Did the government and nphet wing it everytime we locked down so far if that's the case.

Graham

Klonker wrote: »

So constant lockdown is better for mental health than lockdown, then easing for a period, lockdown again and then easing again?

You realise the lockdown ended right?

niallo27

Graham wrote: »

You realise the lockdown ended right?

In the period the poster was referring to we were under our strictest level 5 lockdown.

normanoffside

charlie14 wrote: »

So you favour us doing the same ?
A vaccine digital passport required showing you have been fully vaccinated, have had your first shot 2 weeks prior, have a valid, (not self administered) antigen test within the previous 3 days or have recovered from Covid before you can enter any business, restaurants, bars, hairdressers, cinema`s museums etc.

If we had even proposed that you would be on here going ballistic.

I'd rather have things open than not so yes..

A free and self administered antigen test is sufficient as is a previous infection or and a single vaccine shot.
Stop calling it a vaccine passport because it is not.

Graham

niallo27 wrote: »

That's the thing with you, everything is binary for you, you have no scope to think for yourself.

That has to be tongue in cheek considering your preferred approach is to blindly follow what some/any other country is doing?

paddyisreal

Some amount of nervous Nellie's in here afraid of their ****e the country might return to normal who I will hazard a guess are predominantly in long term public, semi state secure employment with a pension to back it up... There is no other valid, transparent reason to defend the indefensible rubbish our government/nphet have been dishing out for the last year.

Who can justify that farce in the iveagh gardens the other night, it proved you can have people outside ! So ****ing what !

Graham

paddyisreal wrote: »

Some amount of nervous Nellie's in here afraid of their ****e the country might return to normal who I will hazard a guess are predominantly in long term public, semi state secure employment with a pension to back it up... There is no other valid, transparent reason to defend the indefensible rubbish our government/nphet have been dishing out for the last

Childish name calling aside, perhaps there are just people that don't agree with you.

gozunda

paddyisreal wrote: »

Some amount of nervous Nellie's in here afraid of their ****e the country might return to normal who I will hazard a guess are predominantly in long term public, semi state secure employment with a pension to back it up... There is no other valid, transparent reason to defend the indefensible rubbish our government/nphet have been dishing out for the last year.

Who can justify that farce in the iveagh gardens the other night, it proved you can have people outside ! So ****ing what !

Except maybe keeping down the rate of infection and deaths while we roll out the largest vaccination programme in the history of the state?

Looks like we're not doing too bad there tbf.

Fairly hillarious that some are getting their knickers in a knot about the Iveagh gardens thing.

Looks like the crowd was fairly happy anyway

https://extra.ie/2021/06/11/entertainment/music/live-music-returns

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Btw not more of that ****e throwing at those you don't agree with Paddy? Its been done too death already. But no there's no hive mind put there despite all the hand wringing and gnashing of teeth ...

paddyisreal

Graham wrote: »

Childish name calling aside, perhaps there are just people that don't agree with you.

Public or semi state ?

paddyisreal

gozunda wrote: »

Except maybe keeping down the rate of infection and deaths while we roll out the largest vaccination programme in the history of the state?

Looks like we're not doing too bad there tbf.

Fairly hillarious that some are getting their knickers in a knot about the Iveagh gardens thing.

Looks like the crowd was fairly happy anyway

https://extra.ie/2021/06/11/entertainment/music/live-music-returns

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Btw not more of that ****e throwing at those you don't agree with Paddy? Its been done too death already. But no there's no hive mind put there despite all the hand wringing and gnashing of teeth ...

Hit a nerve obviously, public or private sector ? Just to clarify

Also a bunch of government lapdogs sitting in pods is not my idea of enjoyment

Graham

paddyisreal wrote: »

Public or semi state ?

Not the first thing you're wrong about, I'm sure it won't be the last.

paddyisreal

Graham wrote: »

Not the first thing you're wrong about, I'm sure it won't be the last.

Private sector I am just to clarify. I would imagine if you are private your re the exception that proves the rule.

niallo27

Graham wrote: »

That has to be tongue in cheek considering your preferred approach is to blindly follow what some/any other country is doing?

Isn't your preferred approach to blindly follow what this country is doing even though you have no idea what criteria that is.

Graham

paddyisreal wrote: »

Private sector I am just to clarify

I didn't ask.

I (like most) have much more to gain from seeing the country fully reopened, The last 15 months have not been particularly kind financially or otherwise.

I happen to believe that's a strong and sustainable reopening is best achieved from a strong base. A vaccinated population, consistently low covid hospitalisations and consistently low infections. I think reopening too soon only to flip-flop precariously would do more damage than good.

I think we currently have hospitalisations and case numbers under control and we've largely avoided any significant impact from the Delta variant so far (unlike our nearest neighbour and largest trading partner the UK). The missing piece now is vaccinations and that is a situation is improving rapidly.

It would be foolish to squander our current strong position for the sake of a marginally faster reopening.

Graham

niallo27 wrote: »

Isn't your preferred approach to blindly follow....

Nope