French Open 2021

Chivito550 · 11-06-2021 10:57PM

Girly Gal wrote: »

Extraordinary match, 2 extraordinary players, wasn't expecting a conversation about doping on here after that magnificent spectacle. There's a time and a place for that, not tonight, let people enjoy the match for what it was a magnificent match between 2 of the greatest players ever.

If Justin Gatlin wins a gold medal in Tokyo is that the time to talk about doping or should it be left to another time?

There's NEVER a good time to talk about doping, but it's a discussion that needs to be had, and one that doesn't happen even remotely enough in tennis.

Remember, a question is not an accusation.

josip · 11-06-2021 10:59PM

dominatinMC wrote: »

Yep, getting harder to argue against that now. He will inevitibly get #19 on Sunday, then will win Wimbledon to get to #20. Combined with his weeks at #1, H2H records, and M1000 records, there's not much left to be said.

Jimmy Connors 109

mzungu wrote: »

Tsitsipas is really going to need his A game on Sunday.

For his sake, in his first GS Final, I hope he makes a match of it.

I hope he doesn't

Girly Gal · 11-06-2021 11:00PM

Djokovic is the strong favourite for the final now, but, Tsitsipas is not without a chance, I'd give him a slightly better chance against Djokovic than if Nadal got through. He needs to play out of his skin and hope that Novak is slightly flat after tonight, cue a straight sets win for Novak!

Chivito550 · 11-06-2021 11:00PM

Slashermcguirk wrote: »

I would think all the players are drug tested regularly. To be honest regardless the top 3 would win anyway because they are quite simply better tennis players! In a sport like cycling or long distance running it’s pure stamina, in tennis a drug won’t make you a better tennis player. Sure you could build stamina but these guys are just unbelievably good tennis players. You could pump every other player up, they still won’t be as good

You have no understanding of doping if you believe what you have just posted.

TheRiverman · 11-06-2021 11:01PM

Thankfully the men's game still gives us magical matches from well known star players of the sport. The women's game is and has been a shambles for some time exemplified by tomorrow's final of who? v your one.

walshb · 11-06-2021 11:03PM

josip wrote: »

Jimmy Connors 109

I hope he doesn't

I don’t care if Jimmy has 1009 titles…the ugliest tennis ever!

HeidiHeidi · 11-06-2021 11:04PM

dominatinMC wrote: »

Whoah, calm down! It's just an opinion, but a somewhat informed one I'd like to think. And FWIW if you do go back through this thread, you will see I was one of the only ones who predicted a Djokovic win.

That was absolutely not directed at you (or anyone else for that matter)!!

Yours was just the post that finally prompted me to unload that festering frustration that has been building up over the last few days

Those utterly certain, unequivocal predictions, often before a match has even started or in the first couple of games, just drive me nuts!

Discuss the game and players by all means, but writing someone off before they've even got going (never mind that they might have a record of staging unbelievable comebacks from the jaws of defeat) is just rude!

yosser hughes · 11-06-2021 11:05PM

I'm disappointed Rafa lost. He's my favourite player.

However, they are ALL juicing. Including my favourite player. To think otherwise is incredibly naive.
Your local GAA player is juicing FFS!

11-06-2021 11:06PM

Djokovic after being 5-0 down in first set Vs Nadal.

walshb · 11-06-2021 11:07PM

Chivito550 wrote: »

You have no understanding of doping if you believe what you have just posted.

Why?

It’s tennis. Far more skill based than other sports that sees doping to increase endurance..

Sure, can give players extra energy/fitness…

We know this…

But are you real saying Federer, for example, probably was juicing? And if so, why?

What are the players doing that is so extraordinary?

How are you measuring it?

dominatinMC · 11-06-2021 11:07PM

Chivito550 wrote: »

If Justin Gatlin wins a gold medal in Tokyo is that the time to talk about doping or should it be left to another time?

There's NEVER a good time to talk about doping, but it's a discussion that needs to be had, and one that doesn't happen even remotely enough in tennis.

Remember, a question is not an accusation.

I've long had my suspicions about the Big 3, but Djokovic to me seems most likely. The stamina, recovery, lack of injuries, there is just something incredulous about it. Look, maybe he has pushed the boundaries, and gotten every last ounce out of himself but there is no denying it is questionable.

For instance, Djokovic is only a year younger than Nadal, yet he looked like (and played like) he could go for another 4 hours. Nadal looked (and played like) his age. And before anyone says it, Djokovics playstyle is every bit as gruelling as Nadals.

Girly Gal · 11-06-2021 11:09PM

Chivito550 wrote: »

If Justin Gatlin wins a gold medal in Tokyo is that the time to talk about doping or should it be left to another time?

There's NEVER a good time to talk about doping, but it's a discussion that needs to be had, and one that doesn't happen even remotely enough in tennis.

Remember, a question is not an accusation.

Justin Gatlin is a proven drugs cheat, Djokovic, Nadal or Federer haven't as yet been proven to dope, so throwing out these accusations every time they play is only trying to blacken their name and downgrade their achievements. Also 10 mins after an extraordinary match isn't the time to be talking about, let people enjoy the wonderful tennis that was played tonight, you can talk about doping in a few days time when the tournament is over and everyone has had time to take it all in.

MisterAnarchy · 11-06-2021 11:09PM

TheRiverman wrote: »

Thankfully the men's game still gives us magical matches from well known star players of the sport. The women's game is a has been a shambles for some time exemplified by tomorrow's final of who? v your one.

Some of the games in the match tonight could be longer than a set in tomorrows match.

I didnt mean to start a discussion on doping by mentioning it I really didnt.
Maybe there isnt as much running in the game as it looks, and players can get their wind back by bouncing the ball so much and calling for the towel between points.
Maybe its just Red Bull Novak has.

Slashermcguirk · 11-06-2021 11:10PM

Do explain how doping would give you better technique on serve, forehand, backhand, volley, return etc???

Of course it would give you more stamina etc but pick up a tennis racket and try and get the technique those top 3 players have. Good luck with that. I stand over that if every player did dope or didn’t, those top 3 would win regardless because they are simply much better tennis players

Chivito550 wrote: »

You have no understanding of doping if you believe what you have just posted.

walshb · 11-06-2021 11:11PM

Girly Gal wrote: »

Justin Gatlin is a proven drugs cheat, Djokovic, Nadal or Federer haven't as yet been proven to dope, so throwing out these accusations every time they play is only trying to blacken their name and downgrade their achievements. Also 10 mins after an extraordinary match isn't the time to be talking about, let people enjoy the wonderful tennis that was played tonight, you can talk about doping in a few days time when the tournament is over and everyone has had time to take it all in.

Chivito won’t include Roger in his suspicions.

dominatinMC · 11-06-2021 11:15PM

Slashermcguirk wrote: »

Do explain how doping would give you better technique on serve, forehand, backhand, volley, return etc???

Of course it would give you more stamina etc but pick up a tennis racket and try and get the technique those top 3 players have. Good luck with that. I stand over that if every player did dope or didn’t, those top 3 would win regardless because they are simply much better tennis players

Surely the answer to that is obvious? Doping allows you to recover faster, train harder for longer, allowing you to perfect your technique over many hours without suffering injuries.

But I do agree that the Big3 would rule regardless of doping or not.

Slashermcguirk · 11-06-2021 11:18PM

To an extent but so much of it with these guys is ridiculous talent

dominatinMC wrote: »

Surely the answer to that is obvious? Doping allows you to recover faster, train harder for longer, allowing you to perfect your technique over many hours without suffering injuries.

But I do agree that the Big3 would rule regardless of doping or not.

forumdedum · 11-06-2021 11:21PM

dominatinMC wrote: »

I've long had my suspicions about the Big 3, but Djokovic to me seems most likely. The stamina, recovery, lack of injuries, there is just something incredulous about it. Look, maybe he has pushed the boundaries, and gotten every last ounce out of himself but there is no denying it is questionable.

For instance, Djokovic is only a year younger than Nadal, yet he looked like (and played like) he could go for another 4 hours. Nadal looked (and played like) his age. And before anyone says it, Djokovics playstyle is every bit as gruelling as Nadals.

Quite a few years ago Nadal did much damage as he tried to match Federer. Just my opinion.

Rob2D · 11-06-2021 11:23PM

glasso wrote: »

trying to continue deny that that was a great match set is a bit of a joke at this stage.

Fixed that for you

dominatinMC wrote: »

Look, maybe he has pushed the boundaries, and gotten every last ounce out of himself but there is no denying it is questionable.

He may just be a physical freak. He's like stretch armstrong.

It'll be interesting to see what'll happen Sunday. Nobody has ever won RG after beating Nadal. Novak lost to Stan the last time he tried.....

dominatinMC · 11-06-2021 11:28PM

Rob2D wrote: »

Fixed that for you

He may just be a physical freak. He's like stretch armstrong.

Rob2D wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see what'll happen Sunday.

Ya I wouldn't rule Tsitispas out at all. I was kinda thinking all year that it would be ironic if the next gen finally broke through (USO last year doesn't count!) at RG - which has been a constant for so many years now.

Rob2D wrote: »

Nobody has ever won RG after beating Nadal. Novak lost to Stan the last time he tried.....

Small sample size in fairness!

redzerredzer · 11-06-2021 11:36PM

Slashermcguirk wrote: »

I would think all the players are drug tested regularly. To be honest regardless the top 3 would win anyway because they are quite simply better tennis players! In a sport like cycling or long distance running it’s pure stamina, in tennis a drug won’t make you a better tennis player. Sure you could build stamina but these guys are just unbelievably good tennis players. You could pump every other player up, they still won’t be as good

There is no doubt tennis has a massive drug problem. I can assure you drug taking will make you a better tennis player. You can training longer and harder and recover from injuries much quicker.
To win best of 5 set matches for two weeks on clay requires incredible stamina. I would say it’s impossible to win RG without doping (since everyone else is doing it).
Regarding drug testing. There are obviously ways around that. Doctor Eufemiano Fuentes who’s cyclists were caught was going to name everyone from other sports but was silenced as the euro and World Cup winning Spanish football team would have been outed.

Rob2D · 11-06-2021 11:40PM

dominatinMC wrote: »

Small sample size in fairness!

Could get bigger........

Lip Out · 11-06-2021 11:42PM

Come on here after watching one of the best matches I've seen in a very long time and the absolute tripe that is being posted. "Poor enough tennis" and mostly posts about doping. Christ on a bike :rolleyes:

Chivito550 · 11-06-2021 11:45PM

walshb wrote: »

Why?

It’s tennis. Far more skill based than other sports that sees doping to increase endurance..

Sure, can give players extra energy/fitness…

We know this…

But are you real saying Federer, for example, probably was juicing? And if so, why?

What are the players doing that is so extraordinary?

How are you measuring it?

I'm not making any accusations against any players. I'm calling out the nonsense that doping isn't that important in tennis. Without the fitness and stamina, your skill isn't worth jack sh1t deep in the 4th set, 3 or 4 hours in.

Chivito550 · 11-06-2021 11:48PM

Girly Gal wrote: »

Justin Gatlin is a proven drugs cheat, Djokovic, Nadal or Federer haven't as yet been proven to dope, so throwing out these accusations every time they play is only trying to blacken their name and downgrade their achievements. Also 10 mins after an extraordinary match isn't the time to be talking about, let people enjoy the wonderful tennis that was played tonight, you can talk about doping in a few days time when the tournament is over and everyone has had time to take it all in.

Sounds awfully like the whole "now is not the time to discus gun laws" in the aftermath of another mass shooting in USA. There is NEVER a good time to talk about doping, but the best time is when the sport is in the public eye. Why bother talk about it in 4 days when nobody is watching tennis bar the anoraks?

Many many athletes who have never tested positive have to deal with doping questions. Sifan Hassan for one right now. Why should tennis players be different? A question is not an accusation.

Chivito550 · 11-06-2021 11:53PM

Slashermcguirk wrote: »

Do explain how doping would give you better technique on serve, forehand, backhand, volley, return etc???

Of course it would give you more stamina etc but pick up a tennis racket and try and get the technique those top 3 players have. Good luck with that. I stand over that if every player did dope or didn’t, those top 3 would win regardless because they are simply much better tennis players

Of course they are the best, all things being equal.

But without stamina, your skill isn't worth sh1t. What use is your amazing sliced backhand when you can barely walk with exhaustion deep in a 5th set. Doping powers the engine that let's the natural skills thrive.

I'm not accusing any specific players by the way.

You could dope up a guy ranked 100 and he could jump into the top 30 within a year. You could dope a guy ranked 10 and he could be a grand slam contender, and challenge the big 3 more. Doping can close the gap significantly.

Chivito550 · 11-06-2021 11:54PM

walshb wrote: »

Chivito won’t include Roger in his suspicions.

I'm not mentioning any players. I'm simply arguing nonsense that doping isn't a big deal in tennis, a sport where players are involved in exhausting 30 shot rallies in 4 hour matches.

Chivito550 · 11-06-2021 11:59PM

Not my opinion, but I lived with a Spanish guy who played tennis at a high level as a junior in Spain, and coaches too. He's a big Nadal fan. I brought up the topic of doping, and he flippantly said to me that all the top guys are doping - Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and many more. He said it so matter of factly, and it didn't bother him in the slightest.

Not my opinion, just to make it clear.

12-06-2021 12:00AM

Lip Out wrote: »

Come on here after watching one of the best matches I've seen in a very long time and the absolute tripe that is being posted. "Poor enough tennis" and mostly posts about doping. Christ on a bike :rolleyes:

True, the Federer fans are really really really scraping the bottom of the barrel at this stage.

Sad stuff.

josip · 12-06-2021 12:29AM

So anti-vaxx, herbo fruit loop Djokovic is actually pumping himself full of EPO and Clenbuterol every time he closes his front door?
Okaaaay.

French Open 2021

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