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French Open 2021

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Comments



  • glasso wrote: »
    don't remember watching it at the time tbh but it was obviously a thriller from the score.

    however the very fact that Nadal was in effect "dethroned" here will make the one this year more significant.

    it's the first time that he was playing well (although older - both were) when beaten.

    added to the the fact that it affects the endgame of the GS total more so in that slams added now are harder to claim back in the race.

    Matches are remembered for their overall significance, not just the performances / quality
    I agree to an extent. It's why Wimbledon 2019 is considered a classic - the quality of tennis was substandard compared to some previous finals, but the drama more than offset it. And the legacy of the match in the GS race was hugely significant as you say.




  • walshb wrote: »
    Was that 9-7 in the 5th?

    Yes, meant to include that....

    2011-2014 for Rafa was his best ever years at RG for me....

    He was so so strong.....
    Yep, 9-7 in the 5th, 4.5 hours, I remember it well...epic!


    Hard to call Nadals best years in RG, I think the 05-08 era was pure clay court defensive mastery. Probably become more well rounded since then, and certainly more agressive since his comeback in 2017.


    This year he definitely showed his age I thought, looked a good deal slower in turning and reacting. Still think he has another FO or two in him though..




  • I agree to an extent. It's why Wimbledon 2019 is considered a classic - the quality of tennis was substandard compared to some previous finals, but the drama more than offset it. And the legacy of the match in the GS race was hugely significant as you say.

    the quality was better last week than in the 2019 Wimbledon final imo and it was the first time ever that a well and on-form Nadal was beaten at RG, not just the GS race

    buymeacoffee.com/glassopy





  • glasso wrote: »
    the quality was better last week than in the 2019 Wimbledon final imo and it was the first time ever that a well and on-form Nadal was beaten at RG, not just the GS race

    It's debatable if he really was on form, the fact is Nadal beats everyone bar Djokovic even when he's not playing well or not 100% fit, at RG. Djokovic and possibly an on form fully fit Thiem are the only players he needs to be fully fit and on form for at RG to win. Nadal did get off to a flying start, but, he tired visibly from about mid way through the second set. No doubt Djokovic deserved the win, but, it was far from Nadal's best performance




  • Girly Gal wrote: »
    It's debatable if he really was on form, the fact is Nadal beats everyone bar Djokovic even when he's not playing well or not 100% fit, at RG. Djokovic and possibly an on form fully fit Thiem are the only players he needs to be fully fit and on form for at RG to win. Nadal did get off to a flying start, but, he tired visibly from about mid way through the second set. No doubt Djokovic deserved the win, but, it was far from Nadal's best performance

    obviously it wasn't his best performance if he lost

    but the quality was good on his part and the nature of the start would just have caused many players to lay down their racquet

    if you go back and look at the best ever matches earlier in his career it's not as if no mistakes were made - some short sets will have a low number yes

    the third set here was absolutely fantastic

    also the fact that Djokovic came back from the unreal Nadal start only adds to it more

    not surprising that Nadal tired after the 3rd set given that it was an hour and a half long and with his OCD point-by-point style that totally drained him on the day

    Djokovic "broke" Nadal effectively which I'm not sure that I've seen before on clay over 5 - also adding to it (of course some of that is due to age no doubt but still remains a point)

    buymeacoffee.com/glassopy



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  • glasso wrote: »
    obviously it wasn't his best performance if he lost

    but the quality was good on his part and the nature of the start would just have caused many players to lay down their racquet

    if you go back and look at the best ever matches earlier in his career it's not as if no mistakes were made - some short sets will have a low number yes

    the third set here was absolutely fantastic

    also the fact that Djokovic came back from the unreal Nadal start only adds to it more

    not surprising that Nadal tired after the 3rd set given that it was an hour and a half long and with his OCD point-by-point style that totally drained him on the day

    Djokovic "broke" Nadal effectively which I'm not sure that I've seen before on clay over 5 - also adding to it (of course some of that is due to age no doubt but still remains a point)
    I think you are reading waaay too much into it, especially with these kind of statements. If someone is a Djokovic fan, they will look to add more credence to this win, which is understandable but actually in some ways is a testament to Nadals stature on clay. However, looking at it objectively, one cannot claim that both played to their potential - similar to last years FO final, which was in no way a fair reflection of Djokovic. This year, Nadals serve was quite poor (numerous DFs, some at crucial moments) and his BH was weak. As mentioned earlier, his movement seemed off too - whether this is down to an off day or just age is debatable.


    I'm not trying to undermine Djokovics achievement, Nadal this year would have beaten anyone else in that semi bar Djokovic, but I just think the recency bias and ensuing hyperbole needs to be tempered somewhat.




  • well it's going to go down as the most significant Nadal-Djokovic clash at RG for sure,

    the 2013 semi will be an interesting score in the history books

    it's in no way similar to the final last year as there was absolutely no battle there at all so can't be brought in as a comparison in any context - this match swung one to another with an epic set in-between

    most commentators say that both players were playing well and of course recency bias is a thing but I think that that's true

    buymeacoffee.com/glassopy





  • I'm not saying he is taking something but how many times have we seen him get fresher as matches go on.
    I've never seen anything like it in any sport.

    Is he still on the gluten free diet ?

    Let's look at the facts about gluten free Diets and athletic performance

    Djokovic was renowned for having stamina issues for losing big matches up until 2011 when he was the age of 24 .He puts down his transformation to a Serbian doctor watching him play tennis on tv and suggesting gluten to be the reason for his "stamina issues".

    Dr Igor performed a simple but unscientific test on Novak Djokovic. He asked him to hold a slice of bread against his stomach and raise his other arm. The arm felt weaker, so that is the reason he ditched gluten. He was never tested for celiac disease

    Djokovic says he learned he had a "celiac allergy" which means absolutely nothing. You either have celiac disease or you don't

    https://theceliacmd.com/my-doctor-told-me-i-have-mild-celiac-disease-what-does-that-mean/

    In 2011, some months after he first met Dr Igor Cetojevic, Djokovic was virtually unbeatable. Leaner, faster and fresher, he won three majors..

    Novak Djokovic attributes his 2011 tennis season where when he won “ten titles, three Grand Slams, and forty-three consecutive matches” to a recent change in diet

    There is no evidence in Science for gluten to affect athletic performance in non diagnosed celiacs

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25970665/

    Djokovic has never been diagnosed with celiac disease. There are very simple tests to determine this. He never took them




  • Djokovic had already won a slam years before in 2008 that and had been to other finals.

    He just got better at beating Federer who couldn't handle him anymore.

    He didn't get faster.

    He just got more consistent at tennis and mentally stronger.

    Which no drugs do.

    so what type of drugs was he taking then?

    EPO has been easily caught in tests since the early 2000's and he didn't bulk up on steroids.

    rubbish.

    trying to hang his supposed "guilt" on him not taking a test for celiac disease, which he never claimed to have, is pretty pathetic.

    the butthurt from the fed-tards is getting out of hand as his GS total approaches being surpassed along with any other records that he might have left.

    buymeacoffee.com/glassopy





  • Why didn't you include a link to the article you copied your post from?

    https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/trends/a-decade-of-novak-a-decade-of-gluten-free-and-a-bizarre-test-7033801.html

    sxt wrote: »
    Let's look at the facts about gluten free Diets and athletic performance

    Djokovic was renowned for having stamina issues for losing big matches up until 2011 when he was the age of 24 .He puts down his transformation to a Serbian doctor watching him play tennis on tv and suggesting gluten to be the reason for his "stamina issues".

    Dr Igor performed a simple but unscientific test on Novak Djokovic. He asked him to hold a slice of bread against his stomach and raise his other arm. The arm felt weaker, so that is the reason he ditched gluten. He was never tested for celiac disease

    Djokovic says he learned he had a "celiac allergy" which means absolutely nothing. You either have celiac disease or you don't

    https://theceliacmd.com/my-doctor-told-me-i-have-mild-celiac-disease-what-does-that-mean/

    In 2011, some months after he first met Dr Igor Cetojevic, Djokovic was virtually unbeatable. Leaner, faster and fresher, he won three majors..

    Novak Djokovic attributes his 2011 tennis season where when he won “ten titles, three Grand Slams, and forty-three consecutive matches” to a recent change in diet

    There is no evidence in Science for gluten to affect athletic performance in non diagnosed celiacs

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25970665/

    Djokovic has never been diagnosed with celiac disease. There are very simple tests to determine this. He never took them


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  • glasso wrote: »
    Djokovic had already won a slam years before in 2008 that and had been to other finals.

    He just got better at beating Federer who couldn't handle him anymore.

    He didn't get faster.

    He just got more consistent at tennis and mentally stronger.

    Which no drugs do.

    so what type of drugs was he taking then?

    EPO has been easily caught in tests since the early 2000's and he didn't bulk up on steroids.

    rubbish.

    trying to hang his supposed "guilt" on him not taking a test for celiac disease, which he never claimed to have, is pretty pathetic.

    the butthurt from the fed-tards is getting out of hand as his GS total approaches being surpassed along with any other records that he might have left.

    I agree about the whole doping allegations, you can't really accuse Djokovic of doping without implicating Federer, Nadal, Murray, Wawrinka or any players who were consistently in the top 10. You have to go on the assumption that they were all drug free, otherwise it's pointless.




  • glasso wrote: »
    Djokovic had already won a slam years before in 2008 that and had been to other finals.

    He just got better at beating Federer who couldn't handle him anymore.

    He didn't get faster.

    He just got more consistent at tennis and mentally stronger.

    Which no drugs do.

    so what type of drugs was he taking then?

    EPO has been easily caught in tests since the early 2000's and he didn't bulk up on steroids.

    rubbish.

    trying to hang his supposed "guilt" on him not taking a test for celiac disease, which he never claimed to have, is pretty pathetic.

    the butthurt from the fed-tards is getting out of hand as his GS total approaches being surpassed along with any other records that he might have left.

    Adderall is frequently used by football players to help with focus. Seems like it would do the same job here (this is more a point that performance enhancing drugs can help with nearly anything).

    On diet, the main reason lot of vegetarians are healthier is because more of them are focused on health. He may have been trying to get rid of gluten but he likely ate more fruit and veg as a consequence. The key point doesn't need to be gluten. It is about the changes he made overall, not just the headline reason. If he doesn't have an allergy then you could likely build a diet with gluten that would have worked for him. He just found a good diet that worked for him.

    There may have also been a mental thing. If he felt like he should be stronger he may have tried to been encouraged to train more etc.

    I would go further than the top 3/4/5. If you accuse Novak then there were likely others following trying to keep up because it is literally their paychecks on the line. If everyone takes drugs someone still has to come last.




  • Adderall isn't going to turn anybody into a Djokovic or make a Djokovic way better

    in fact the "deadening" effect of such drugs may work against people in tennis match - tennis is a game where you want to feel the competition and energy

    besides it would be not that hard I imagine to get a TUE for it if required - just get a ADHD diagnosis

    coming back on the gluten thing again - I know personally at least a couple of people who have opted to cut it out and say that it helps them with energy levels even though they are not even gluten intolerant diagnosed

    as said by another poster - maybe it just does work for him or it's some sort of placebo effect mental thing - who knows.

    buymeacoffee.com/glassopy





  • Girly Gal wrote: »
    I agree about the whole doping allegations, you can't really accuse Djokovic of doping without implicating Federer, Nadal, Murray, Wawrinka or any players who were consistently in the top 10. You have to go on the assumption that they were all drug free, otherwise it's pointless.

    Id say its safer to assume all these guys are on drugs rather than clean, doping tests aren't worth the paper they're written on so just because someone has a clean test doesn't mean anything too me.

    As I said drug use, PED's and other banned substances are rife in every other sport, why would tennis be any different?




  • Id say its safer to assume all these guys are on drugs rather than clean, doping tests aren't worth the paper they're written on so just because someone has a clean test doesn't mean anything too me.

    As I said drug use, PED's and other banned substances are rife in every other sport, why would tennis be any different?

    so no actual view on anything to do with Tennis - just PEDs

    thanks - we know where you stand on that after making the same point 5 or 6 times in a row.

    buymeacoffee.com/glassopy





  • glasso wrote: »
    so no actual view on anything to do with Tennis - just PEDs

    thanks - we know where you stand on that after making the same point 5 or 6 times in a row.

    Nah not just Ped's, I think Novak is on his way to being the GOAT, personally I find Federer the best to look at, he made the game so effortless and graceful, but Novak is a machine.

    With Nadal now out of Wimbeldon it's hard to see anyone stopping him.




  • Id say its safer to assume all these guys are on drugs rather than clean, doping tests aren't worth the paper they're written on so just because someone has a clean test doesn't mean anything too me.

    As I said drug use, PED's and other banned substances are rife in every other sport, why would tennis be any different?

    But surely you can't think ALL people here are cheats

    There are morals to consider and ethics and character...

    They way you paint it is that they are all cheaters, lacking honesty and integrity

    That is absurd...

    And you would say the same for all the great cyclists and track runners and swimmers etc? All them use PEDs, and all cheat and lie?




  • walshb wrote: »
    But surely you can't think ALL people here are cheats

    There are morals to consider and ethics and character...

    They way you paint it is that they are all cheaters, lacking honesty and integrity

    That is absurd...

    And you would say the same for all the great cyclists and track runners and swimmers etc? All them use PEDs, and all cheat and lie?

    I don't think using necessarily makes you a cheat, it's so prevalent in all sports that I think most would be doing it, especially at the élite level, I mean I'm sure you may get some who don't but I would think they are in the minority, you mention cycling and runners...I mean look how many of them that got caught out!

    I've seen too many people come out or get caught using them for me to believe anyone that says they are clean, and I'm talking about people at the elite level of sports, where there is so much as stake.

    It's like hollywood actors preaching clean when we no the physiques they have are unattainable natural, sports people are no different.




  • I don't think using necessarily makes you a cheat, it's so prevalent in all sports that I think most would be doing it, especially at the élite level, I mean I'm sure you may get some who don't but I would think they are in the minority, you mention cycling and runners...I mean look how many of them that got caught out!

    I've seen too many people come out or get caught using them for me to believe anyone that says they are clean, and I'm talking about people at the elite level of sports, where there is so much as stake.

    It's like hollywood actors preaching clean when we no the physiques they have are unattainable natural, sports people are no different.

    In fairness a personal trainer who only works with you and a few others. Lots of free time, highly paid dieticians can work absolute wonders.

    I am not saying that they are not dosing to shortcut it a little but many of those physiques are possible. Not possible if you have to work 9-5 etc. but definitely doable.


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