Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Options
1…188189191193194…308

Comments

  • Options
    #5702
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,273 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Prediction - publicans will continue to lobby for cuts in excise duty - well, this isn't much of a prediction, they are already doing this but will use Covid, claim they're all going broke etc. when trade doesn't return quickly enough to their expectation, whatever that was (year 2000 levels I expect)

    Thing is though with MUP, government can cut excise while not making off licence alcohol any cheaper, or actually making it dearer

    So win-win for the publicans, retailers and alcohol industry

    Lose-lose for the taxpayer, and drinkers (whether moderate or not)

    You couldn't make a crazy scenario like this up, but this is what ALL political parties are saying they support. Either they haven't analysed the issue beyond the most superficial AAI/LVA/VFI propaganda, they don't care, they are in the pocket of the publicans (many politicians or their families are publicans), or they are far thicker even than we've been led to expect :mad:

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Options
    #5703
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,273 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    you are allowed an unlimited amount. The quantities stated cannot be enforced under EU law and you can bring back as much as you like for personal consumption without any issue.

    Customs & Excise can seize what they like and it's up to you to prove that it's for your personal consumption rather than resale. Customs & Excise can also search your car and vehicle without warrant, the Gardai can't! Most people have no idea at all about the powers that customs have.
    My father in law brings home a full car load every time they go away on summer holidays, and has in the past shipped 3 pallets of wine back with zero issues or associated costs.

    You are not allowed to ship alcohol into the country without a licence. Any alcohol you import personally has to be accompanied by you. It's just luck that the whole lot wasn't seized and they don't have to let you pay the duty when caught, either.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Options
    #5704
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,954 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Real Donald Trump wrote: »
    How do you know what goes on in other A@E through out the globe?
    That's an argument for increased excise duty.

    Or to enforce the duty of care on pubs and clubs.

    Or providing alternatives to pubs and clubs.

    Supermarket alcohol already at home can be consumed at any time.
    Is there any correlation between A&E and busy times for pubs and clubs ??


  • Options
    #5705
    Himnydownunder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭Himnydownunder


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Prediction - publicans will continue to lobby for cuts in excise duty - well, this isn't much of a prediction, they are already doing this but will use Covid, claim they're all going broke etc. when trade doesn't return quickly enough to their expectation, whatever that was (year 2000 levels I expect)

    Thing is though with MUP, government can cut excise while not making off licence alcohol any cheaper, or actually making it dearer

    So win-win for the publicans, retailers and alcohol industry

    Lose-lose for the taxpayer, and drinkers (whether moderate or not)

    You couldn't make a crazy scenario like this up, but this is what ALL political parties are saying they support. Either they haven't analysed the issue beyond the most superficial AAI/LVA/VFI propaganda, they don't care, they are in the pocket of the publicans (many politicians or their families are publicans), or they are far thicker even than we've been led to expect :mad:

    It’s all optics, with the government pretending to do something useful. They have probably had less than feck all to do during the lockdown.


  • Options
    #5706
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,273 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Himnydownunder wrote: »
    They have probably had less than feck all to do during the lockdown.

    Daft comment.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #5707
    Himnydownunder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭Himnydownunder


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Daft comment.

    You’re right they had to shut everything down and impose fines on rule breakers.


  • Options
    #5708
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Alcohol consumption plummeted by almost 20% in first three months of 2021

    The amount of alcohol consumed in the first quarter of this year was down substantially on the same period in 2020.

    The consumption of all types of alcohol - beer, cider, wine and spirits - fell between January and March 2021, according to the latest Revenue figures.

    The 19.7% decline in the consumption of alcohol has been attributed to the closure of the hospitality sector due to Covid-19.

    Despite commentary to the contrary, the Director of Drinks Ireland, Patricia Callan, said alcohol consumption continues to decline as a direct result of the pandemic.

    "While this decline was accelerated by Covid, it should be noted that it is in line with the trend of consumption falling generally in Ireland over the past 30 years," said Ms Callan.

    Average alcohol consumption in 2020 declined by 6.6% to its lowest level in 30 years and almost 30% lower than the peak of 2001.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40299482.html

    Yet our government is still going to bring in MUP in January and make alcohol much much dearer for everyone


  • Options
    #5709
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    They don't care. The real reason MUP is being introduced is for the pubs. Facts and figures showing consumption lowering on its own doesn't make any difference :rolleyes:.


    It will be interesting to see if binge drinking rises though.
    People that will go up North and abroad will surely by in bulk. Then will have that sitting at home.


  • Options
    #5710
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Yup MUP was always about the pubs

    I'll bet RTE etc won't give much time to the fall in consumption though

    Imagine people not availing of all that cheap strong alcohol when the pubs and restaurants were closed

    Apparently alcohol is cheaper than water in this country


  • Options
    #5711
    -=al=-
    Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭-=al=-


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    Alcohol consumption plummeted by almost 20% in first three months of 2021

    The amount of alcohol consumed in the first quarter of this year was down substantially on the same period in 2020.

    The consumption of all types of alcohol - beer, cider, wine and spirits - fell between January and March 2021, according to the latest Revenue figures.

    The 19.7% decline in the consumption of alcohol has been attributed to the closure of the hospitality sector due to Covid-19.

    Despite commentary to the contrary, the Director of Drinks Ireland, Patricia Callan, said alcohol consumption continues to decline as a direct result of the pandemic.

    "While this decline was accelerated by Covid, it should be noted that it is in line with the trend of consumption falling generally in Ireland over the past 30 years," said Ms Callan.

    Average alcohol consumption in 2020 declined by 6.6% to its lowest level in 30 years and almost 30% lower than the peak of 2001.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40299482.html

    Yet our government is still going to bring in MUP in January and make alcohol much much dearer for everyone

    So when the pubs were open alcohol consumption was decreasing, and since the pubs have been closed, alcohol consumption (at home) is still decreasing

    Solid argument from the Gov to charge more just for alcohol consumption at home.


    Surely opening pubs will increase alcohol consumption? Maybe make that more expensive since it will add to the alcohol health issues they concerned about. We're already doing our best to go for gold in the most expensive alcohol prices in Europe while not getting much back in return.

    Maybe an even percentage increase for both pub/home consumption to make the argument have some logic? Having the extra cash made not even go back to the Gov is just blatant swizzary

    Drinking at home is still decreasing even in a pandemic when you are stuck a home and can't really go anywhere, yet while it's decreasing it's been made more expensive?

    If you were forced to be stuck in a pub for over a year and no one was drinking anymore, the bar owners would decrease the prices, which is essentially what they are doing by making drinking at home more expensive.

    It's a good old fashioned swizz and everyone's been taking for yet another ride they never asked for


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #5712
    FileNotFound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    -=al=- wrote: »
    So when the pubs were open alcohol consumption was decreasing, and since the pubs have been closed, alcohol consumption (at home) is still decreasing

    Solid argument from the Gov to charge more just for alcohol consumption at home.


    Surely opening pubs will increase alcohol consumption? Maybe make that more expensive since it will add to the alcohol health issues they concerned about. We're already doing our best to go for gold in the most expensive alcohol prices in Europe while not getting much back in return.

    Maybe an even percentage increase for both pub/home consumption to make the argument have some logic? Having the extra cash made not even go back to the Gov is just blatant swizzary

    Drinking at home is still decreasing even in a pandemic when you are stuck a home and can't really go anywhere, yet while it's decreasing it's been made more expensive?

    If you were forced to be stuck in a pub for over a year and no one was drinking anymore, the bar owners would decrease the prices, which is essentially what they are doing by making drinking at home more expensive.

    It's a good old fashioned swizz and everyone's been taking for yet another ride they never asked for

    Fully agree. If its in the interest of health then no sector selling alcohol should be exempt especially the one that leads to the most binge drinking.

    But what makes the MUP even worse is that this i not even tax, it is a legal minimum price so any gains (profits made) on this go to the retailer and drinks industry and not the Government purse.

    This is a semi scam to support the vintners, screw the average person and appease a few anti drink nuts in Alcohol Action Ireland.

    All it will do is remove the odd deal we used to enjoy and kill any competition in the low end drinks sector (will kill many brands and own brand drink off entirely)


  • Options
    #5713
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,095 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Report in The Lancet (highly respected medical journal) suggesting MUP has had the desired effects in Scotland.

    Make of it what you will.

    [URL="BBC News - Minimum unit alcohol price has 'lasting impact'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57293223"]BBC News - Minimum unit alcohol price has 'lasting impact'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57293223[/URL]

    Edit : Can't link properly on phone


  • Options
    #5714
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,855 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    He said the quiet bit loud.


  • Options
    #5715
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Report in The Lancet (highly respected medical journal) suggesting MUP has had the desired effects in Scotland.

    Make of it what you will.

    BBC News - Minimum unit alcohol price has 'lasting impact'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57293223

    Edit : Can't link properly on phone
    I don't disagree that it helps the few. It's the method that I question.
    I have seen teenagers acting badly in the media in the past month or so, and it resulted in some Senators and Councillors among others suggesting a curfew for all teenagers.

    It's ridiculous. Some people are effected by alcohol, so everyone else has to (literally in this case) pay the price. I understand that there are people with alcohol issues both for health and abuse of it etc. and if I sound callous, so be it. The truth is that alcohol is enjoyed by many, that is the reason why the negative numbers seem so high. If we were to take it in group percentages, do we make all drivers pay for the few that are reckless? The cyclists for the few that are killed whilst cycling?
    Meat eaters, jockeys etc.. before the numbers get to high?

    If it was a tax that went into health or alcohol abuse it would be more palatable, but it's not. It is just treating the general public like toddlers - making it harder to get, while the providers of said product make even more money out of it. In the meantime our taxes are also going to 'charities' like Alcohol Action Ireland to fund these stupid uncontested decisions, and we are still paying them. Now that they have got their way, can we relax on their funding, or will it be increased? Will we be paying twice after January?

    /alcohol induced rant.


  • Options
    #5716
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,954 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Report in The Lancet (highly respected medical journal) suggesting MUP has had the desired effects in Scotland.

    Make of it what you will.

    [URL="BBC News - Minimum unit alcohol price has 'lasting impact'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57293223"]BBC News - Minimum unit alcohol price has 'lasting impact'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57293223[/URL]

    Edit : Can't link properly on phone
    MUP is being touted as a way to make alcohol too expensive for low income groups by making cheap un-branded alcohol more expensive.

    And that is complete hogwash as
    However, the exception to this was those in high-purchasing, low-income homes, who did not seem to change their habits.

    The focus on MUP rather than excise smacks of "It's for their own good." say people in high income groups won't be affected by any changes as they are more likely to use products priced near or above the proposed MUP.


  • Options
    #5717
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Report in The Lancet (highly respected medical journal) suggesting MUP has had the desired effects in Scotland.

    Make of it what you will.

    BBC News - Minimum unit alcohol price has 'lasting impact'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57293223

    Edit : Can't link properly on phone


    What were the trending consumption rates of scotland over the past years?



    What if the downtrend of alcohol consumption we have seen over the last 20 years continues? I would bet 100 euro that will be without question attributed to MUP.


  • Options
    #5718
    FileNotFound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    VinLieger wrote: »
    What were the trending consumption rates of scotland over the past years?

    What if the downtrend of alcohol consumption we have seen over the last 20 years continues? I would bet 100 euro that will be without question attributed to MUP.

    I think thats one of my main gripes, not only does this not feed money back into the exchequer. it will claim credit for the already happening fall in consumption.

    Why has nobody raised the fact that as a nation we are drinking less anyway and the education and positive health routes are effective and working

    All in all definitely not a fan of this system.


  • Options
    #5719
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,528 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    It's a heist and an unusual one at that.

    The Government with the full support of the Dail is forcing drinks companies and retailers to raid our pockets and keep our money.

    It doesn't matter whether you drink a lot or a little or even don't drink at all ie. if you are a teetotaler purchasing drink for guests.

    Everyone is a potential victim of the heist.


  • Options
    #5720
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    Is there even a word for what it is? It seems to be the opposite of Predatory Pricing or a weird form of Price Discrimination by effectively overpricing an entire produce section for the less wealthy and claiming it is for their benefit.
    It's crazy to think that it is even allowed.


  • Options
    #5721
    FileNotFound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    Suckit wrote: »
    Is there even a word for what it is? It seems to be the opposite of Predatory Pricing or a weird form of Price Discrimination by effectively overpricing an entire produce section for the less wealthy and claiming it is for their benefit.
    It's crazy to think that it is even allowed.

    I remember it went to the EU courts when scotland tried to bring it in initially, they just sent it back to the national courts.

    I was always of the impression that killing brands through political choice when impacting the free market concept. Guess you can do a lot under the guise of public health....


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #5722
    ShamNNspace
    Registered Users Posts: 4,684 ✭✭✭ShamNNspace


    They're at it again over on NT pushing lies ie that Ireland and the Uk were exceptional in allowing alcohol to be sold during lockdown... we have a serious alcohol culture problem sez he then praises the governments new measures re mup and even wants them to go further in making it illegal to sell alcohol to under 20s and God knows what else he has in mind ... Some Murray fella a surgeon or other Mup won't bother him no doubt


  • Options
    #5723
    NoLuckLarry
    Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭NoLuckLarry


    ShamNNspace wrote: »
    They're at it again over on NT pushing lies ie that Ireland and the Uk were exceptional in allowing alcohol to be sold during lockdown... we have a serious alcohol culture problem sez he then praises the governments new measures re mup and even wants them to go further in making it illegal to sell alcohol to under 20s and God knows what else he has in mind ... Some Murray fella a surgeon or other Mup won't bother him no doubt

    He’s a perfect example of the fact that we have too many self appointed moral guardians in this country. The whole lot of them can **** right off.


  • Options
    #5724
    ShamNNspace
    Registered Users Posts: 4,684 ✭✭✭ShamNNspace


    ^^^expect more of them over the next few days, some report or other has been released showing that we've used alcohol more than other countries to get us through lockdown


  • Options
    #5725
    NoLuckLarry
    Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭NoLuckLarry


    ShamNNspace wrote: »
    ^^^expect more of them over the next few days, some report or other has been released showing that we've used alcohol more than other countries to get us through lockdown

    Not an unexpected consequence of a country being led through Covid by a pack of complete dithering useless gob****es who got stuck like a broken record with the mantra "2 more weeks".


  • Options
    #5726
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,528 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    That's Professor Frank Murray, the high priest of MUP.

    He has plans for us.


  • Options
    #5727
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,928 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    There's nothing we can do to stop it, MUP is living rent free in all our heads, we just have to accept it, and whatever measures keep coming because MUP wont be the last of it


  • Options
    #5728
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Its just so incredibly infuriating they are constantly allowed speak with zero corrections or opposing narratives.


  • Options
    #5729
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,928 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Its just so incredibly infuriating they are constantly allowed speak with zero corrections or opposing narratives.

    Every politician and broadcaster is in favour of it, it's very odd how this is challenged at all, when polls show 85% of the public (what do they matter) are against the measures.
    Unless some mass demonstration is arranged, and no one is going to arrange this, we just have to suck it up.


  • Options
    #5730
    the beer revolu
    Registered Users Posts: 16,833 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Its just so incredibly infuriating they are constantly allowed speak with zero corrections or opposing narratives.

    To be fair Kieran Cuddihy did challenge him somewhat.
    However, he was allowed claim that our rates didn't drop when they did, in fact, drop slightly.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #5731
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Jesus Christ, Newstalk did a piece this morning where someone was complaining about non alcoholic beers and wines alcohol being placed outside the specific alcohol areas...... Then of course they had the NIMBY CEO from AAI on as usual unopposed spouting more scaremongering.


Advertisement