Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Thelonious Monk

VinLieger wrote: »

Its just so incredibly infuriating they are constantly allowed speak with zero corrections or opposing narratives.

Every politician and broadcaster is in favour of it, it's very odd how this is challenged at all, when polls show 85% of the public (what do they matter) are against the measures.
Unless some mass demonstration is arranged, and no one is going to arrange this, we just have to suck it up.

the beer revolu

VinLieger wrote: »

Its just so incredibly infuriating they are constantly allowed speak with zero corrections or opposing narratives.

To be fair Kieran Cuddihy did challenge him somewhat.
However, he was allowed claim that our rates didn't drop when they did, in fact, drop slightly.

VinLieger

Jesus Christ, Newstalk did a piece this morning where someone was complaining about non alcoholic beers and wines alcohol being placed outside the specific alcohol areas...... Then of course they had the NIMBY CEO from AAI on as usual unopposed spouting more scaremongering.

hatrickpatrick

Just brewed a new Mexican Cerveza kit (probably a little inappropriate to clone Corona during these times but I digress ) the other night, currently listening to it bubbling away. Anyone seriously annoyed by MUP, get yourselves a brewing kit and start saving 500ml bottles whenever you drink from them.

It really cannot be overstated just how cheap it is to make beer which is far, far superior to the sh!te you can currently get for below minimum price. Not obviously that this excuses authoritarian legislation, of course it doesn't, but in terms of finding a way around it and ensuring the sesh can carry on, the more people who start doing this the better

Prices on ingredients have gone up slightly because of Brexit and increased demand during quarantine (apparently there aren't many companies which actually make malt extract kits here - perhaps this will change once MUP comes in and the cheaper breweries realise this is a potential new revenue stream?) but given that you're making beer which is 5% ABV minimum, €15-€20 for a 20 litre batch is still an absolute steal.

Capt'n Midnight

Scottish alcohol sales drop to lowest level in 26 years

Deprivation was linked to drinking-related illness, with the rates for both alcohol-related hospital stays and deaths eight times higher in the most deprived parts of Scotland compared to the least deprived areas.

So the less money people have they more likely they are to have drinking related illnesses. And how exactly will minimum pricing will fix this ?

Ger Roe

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Just brewed a new Mexican Cerveza kit (probably a little inappropriate to clone Corona during these times but I digress ) the other night, currently listening to it bubbling away. Anyone seriously annoyed by MUP, get yourselves a brewing kit and start saving 500ml bottles whenever you drink from them.

It really cannot be overstated just how cheap it is to make beer which is far, far superior to the sh!te you can currently get for below minimum price. Not obviously that this excuses authoritarian legislation, of course it doesn't, but in terms of finding a way around it and ensuring the sesh can carry on, the more people who start doing this the better

Prices on ingredients have gone up slightly because of Brexit and increased demand during quarantine (apparently there aren't many companies which actually make malt extract kits here - perhaps this will change once MUP comes in and the cheaper breweries realise this is a potential new revenue stream?) but given that you're making beer which is 5% ABV minimum, €15-€20 for a 20 litre batch is still an absolute steal.

Sushhhhh, .... you are letting people in on our little secret. I am quite fond of the home brew cider kits myself. I have 40 pints of strawberry and lime on the go at the moment - will be bottling on Saturday. I reckon this age old hobby will see a re-surge soon as it will be next to impossible to increase tax on the raw ingredients that have so many other food related uses.

It's a good hobby anyway... teaches patience and skills.

patrickbrophy18

elperello wrote: »

That's Professor Frank Murray, the high priest of MUP.

He has plans for us.

He and his cohort of sanctimonious puritanical virtue signallers probably won't quit their bellyaching until alcohol has been completely banned.

I realize that AII is predominantly composed of members whos lives were directly or indirectly affected by alcohol abuse. Then, the formation of the aforementioned NGO is a way for its members to take it out on the general public.

ShamNNspace

Mup mentioned there on Moncrief, the wine expert then said wine over €8 in value won't be affected, to which Moncreif replied in that smarmy way of his "anyone who buys an €8 bottle of wine needs to immediately see a doctor"..... Complete disconnect there

elperello

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

He and his cohort of sanctimonious puritanical virtue signallers probably won't quit their bellyaching until alcohol has been completely banned.

I realize that AII is predominantly composed of members whos lives were directly or indirectly affected by alcohol abuse. Then, the formation of the aforementioned NGO is a way for its members to take it out on the general public.

I know nothing about their private lives and have no interest in them but I do know that they are promoting a neo-prohibitionist agenda which is gaining ground all the time.

ShamNNspace wrote: »

Mup mentioned there on Moncrief, the wine expert then said wine over €8 in value won't be affected, to which Moncreif replied in that smarmy way of his "anyone who buys an €8 bottle of wine needs to immediately see a doctor"..... Complete disconnect there

Anyone who knows anything about wine will recognise that for the tired old fashioned wine snobbery that it is.

Reputable Rog

elperello wrote: »

I know nothing about their private lives and have no interest in them but I do know that they are promoting a neo-prohibitionist agenda which is gaining ground all the time.



Anyone who knows anything about wine will recognise that for the tired old fashioned wine snobbery that it is.

You can do very well for under €7 if you look hard enough.
Some of the wines priced between €15 and €20 cost about €4 in other countries.

odyssey06

ShamNNspace wrote: »

Mup mentioned there on Moncrief, the wine expert then said wine over €8 in value won't be affected, to which Moncreif replied in that smarmy way of his "anyone who buys an €8 bottle of wine needs to immediately see a doctor"..... Complete disconnect there

Translation ... I know nothing about wine and can only rely on price as a proxy to quality.

ohnonotgmail

Reputable Rog wrote: »

You can do very well for under €7 if you look hard enough.
Some of the wines priced between €15 and €20 cost about €4 in other countries.

the first 4.87 on any bottle of wine is duty and vat. if you buy a €7 bottle of wine only 2.13 goes to the retailer.

Thelonious Monk

I've bought nice bottles of wine for 1.50 in Spain, I remember just a few years ago the local Lidl in France had really nice sparkling French wine for 1.20!

Capt'n Midnight

Reputable Rog wrote: »

You can do very well for under €7 if you look hard enough.
Some of the wines priced between €15 and €20 cost about €4 in other countries.

Cheap n' cheerful wines cost €1 a litre in other countries.

Spanish Eyes

I remember being in a place called Limoux near Carcassonne France. Stopped for lunch as you do, and the wine was sold straight from the barrel, it is wine country around there and this place had a little winery attached. A litre carafe (amongst four hic...) was a fiver and we could taste from as many different barrels as we wanted before choosing, we were a bit tipsy, and the plat du jour, four courses for a tenner meant a great lunchtime treat.

The point I should have made is that the locals came in with their own containers and bought it to take away. So civilised!

Drink if you want, don't if you don't, but the impingement on our freedoms to drink is becoming puritanical here now.

global23214124

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

My understanding that this is aimed at the binge drinkers that are drinking the likes of Linden village and Tesco lager. I can see how it might deter those that are not addicted but it seems like they might try and get drink elsewhere. Let's see how it plays out.

odyssey06

global23214124 wrote: »

My understanding that this is aimed at the binge drinkers that are drinking the likes of Linden village and Tesco lager. I can see how it might deter those that are not addicted but it seems like they might try and get drink elsewhere. Let's see how it plays out.

It isnt. Thats just the lies you have fallen for.
Major brands of wine and beer wiil be affected by this.
It is targeted at anyone who drinks at hone to get them to drink in pubs.

Reputable Rog

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Cheap n' cheerful wines cost €1 a litre in other countries.

A rather terrible Alentejo for a Tenner in Lidl last summer cost me 75c in Lidl Portugal the year before.

machiavellianme

Reputable Rog wrote: »

A rather terrible Alentejo for a Tenner in Lidl last summer cost me 75c in Lidl Portugal the year before.

Whyd you buy it twice if you knew it was terrible?
Expect it to cost 15 after MUP when you buy it the next time!

Reputable Rog

machiavellianme wrote: »

Whyd you buy it twice if you knew it was terrible?
Expect it to cost 15 after MUP when you buy it the next time!

I didn’t buy it twice. I knew from the first time.

senordingdong

odyssey06 wrote: »

It isnt. Thats just the lies you have fallen for.
Major brands of wine and beer wiil be affected by this.
It is targeted at anyone who drinks at hone to get them to drink in pubs.

Well with any luck, it will have the effect that the authorities claim they're after...less consumption. The pubs will continue to kill themselves and when revenue collection falls, they'll reconsider this nonsense.

Suckit

I heard something on the radio today, but I didn't catch it properly. I am only home about 30 minutes and heard it again when I was walking in the door.
'Garda say that drinking in the street beside the pub - 100m is illegal'
or something to that effect.
Then I read this.
Gardaí told not to penalise pubs serving alcohol outdoors

Ms Humphreys has now encouraged garda discretion regarding the policing of drinking alcohol on newly erected streetside tables.
Garda Commissioner Drew Harris also instructed regional Assistant Commissioners that gardaí should use discretion in relation to licensed premises while also continuing to respond to any public complaints received on matters such as public order, parking, and noise, An Garda Síochána said.

So.. It is illegal to serve alcohol outside a pub, but for now, they can ignore it. I don't mind that, in fact I like it. But they are either worried about our health, or they aren't.

I wonder what they will do next to discourage alcohol abuse in this country. Bring back happy hour?

Leroy42

odyssey06 wrote: »

It isnt. Thats just the lies you have fallen for.
Major brands of wine and beer wiil be affected by this.
It is targeted at anyone who drinks at hone to get them to drink in pubs.

Of course not. It is aimed squarely at the lower priced sellers. If the price is the same across all brands then people will always go for the brand they know.

Do you think LIdl would have got a hand in the market is they came in with the same products and the same price? No, people, except for convenience, would have stuck to the old reliables.

To move people off a brand, and Ireland was very brand loyal, you need something to offer. Be that price, quality of something else.

Take the ability to compete on price away, which is what this does, and the sales of NoName Brand will drop.

It is also aimed at driving people back towards the pubs, but the double benefit for the likes of Diageo is that they win either way.

odyssey06

Leroy42 wrote: »

Of course not. It is aimed squarely at the lower priced sellers. If the price is the same across all brands then people will always go for the brand they know.

Do you think LIdl would have got a hand in the market is they came in with the same products and the same price? No, people, except for convenience, would have stuck to the old reliables.

To move people off a brand, and Ireland was very brand loyal, you need something to offer. Be that price, quality of something else.

Take the ability to compete on price away, which is what this does, and the sales of NoName Brand will drop.

It is also aimed at driving people back towards the pubs, but the double benefit for the likes of Diageo is that they win either way.

Well I meant the pricing of branded products in terms of consumer impact but yes for the Diageos you are right it is a win either way.

Also most no name branded wines are more expensive than branded wines... ie OBriens Wines are more expensive than Yellow Tail.

Geuze

Eurostat data on 2020 price levels:





We have the most expensive alcohol and tobacco in the EU.

Geuze

Leroy42 wrote: »

Of course not. It is aimed squarely at the lower priced sellers. If the price is the same across all brands then people will always go for the brand they know.
.

MUP will affect the price of 50cl cans of Guinness stout.

If sold at 2 euro, then no, MUP won't kick in.

But MUP will stop it being sold at 1 euro per can, which happens fairly often.



So it is false to say that MUP will only affect "lower priced" brands.

Leroy42

Geuze wrote: »

MUP will affect the price of 50cl cans of Guinness stout.

If sold at 2 euro, then no, MUP won't kick in.

But MUP will stop it being sold at 1 euro per can, which happens fairly often.



So it is false to say that MUP will only affect "lower priced" brands.

Do you think Diageo prefer to sell Guinness at €2 or €1? The only reason they drop the price is competition. Remove that competitions ability to compete on price and Diageo will be pretty confident that their marketing and brand loyalty will get them the vast majority of sales in that particular area.

And at a higher price point. So even if overall sales drop, their share will increase along with a higher price per unit.

And if it does result in people moving away from off licence sales and back to pubs (it won't) then Diageo win anyway as they are in every pub in the country.

FileNotFound

MUP will impact all drink brands with the exception of premium brands (Belgian beers etc.)
Its not that the day to day price increases, its that the deals we buy week in week out will be gone forever


While we all sit and say that a can of say Heineken or Guinness is already X or Y so it won't change. We will never again see the 24 for 28 euro etc.
And lets be honest most of us buy the deals not individual cans at top price.


Also this is not just MUP - it's also no using vouchers, no getting clubcard points and during Covid we added more physical barriers that have to be opened by hand.

And it's all been justified using a simple term "public Health" while totally ignoring the year on year decrease in consumption we have had for over 10 yrs. Naturally this continued decline will now be attributed to these idiotic measures (which also give no extra cash to the exchequer)


Have to say the lack of opposition to this both in Gov and opposition was a surprise.

Leroy42

FileNotFound wrote: »

Have to say the lack of opposition to this both in Gov and opposition was a surprise.

Why are you surprised? From a headline this looks like a 'good thing' to do. Sure people will not like it, but like the smoking ban it is in everyones bests interest.

Of course anyone that pays even the smallest attention to it, which I wager is actually a very small amount of people, will see that it is complete nonsense and even if one accepts the need to reduce consumption then this is a terrible way to go about it and doesn't even earn the country any additional revenue (save for some minor additional VAT on sales and Tax on profits).

But TD's want to to be seen to take the tough decisions, to do the right thing. And this is a pretty easy way to make it look that way to a large amount of people.

And many people will never really notice. Certainly not enough to actually get annoyed, and certainly not annoyed enough to change their vote.

FileNotFound

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why are you surprised? From a headline this looks like a 'good thing' to do. Sure people will not like it, but like the smoking ban it is in everyones bests interest.

Of course anyone that pays even the smallest attention to it, which I wager is actually a very small amount of people, will see that it is complete nonsense and even if one accepts the need to reduce consumption then this is a terrible way to go about it and doesn't even earn the country any additional revenue (save for some minor additional VAT on sales and Tax on profits).

But TD's want to to be seen to take the tough decisions, to do the right thing. And this is a pretty easy way to make it look that way to a large amount of people.

And many people will never really notice. Certainly not enough to actually get annoyed, and certainly not annoyed enough to change their vote.

The smoking ban was something I actually supported. I really don't see this as anywhere near comparable. The smoking ban had a clear public health function - remove smoke from indoors so staff and non smoking patrons do not pay the price for others choices.

Here we just increase shop profits and remove a few little deals, no impact on pubs that result in more alcohol related issues than anywhere, no money back to the exchequer to promote non drinking or pay for drink related services.

Its not really MUP that gets me, but this version where we pay and even the Gov get nothing back from it. And if the impacts so little that nobody notices in my mind thats a failure to start with!!.

It's sad to see that vintners still have sway enough to decide stuff for us, and then those poor scrotes in Alcohol Action.

Since the entire Dail failed to question it, not sure there is even anyone to switch a vote to. Maybe we have voted in cowards.