Galway traffic

Cheshire Cat · 06-06-2021 3:45pm

obi604 wrote: »

Bump. Need to head out that direction and wondering should I avoid.

I think they are. We went out to Oughterard yesterday and there were several signs warning of roadworks further along.

Laviski · 06-06-2021 4:12pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If it's a small road with no central marker then middle of the road typically is middle of the lane.

If there's a cycle lane and cyclists aren't using it it's worth asking why, it might not be as suitable as it looks (Doughiska for example).

Where there are proper segregated cycle lanes they should be used and I think they generally are used. But you'll always have the odd car-hating hero with multiple cameras mounted out looking for confrontation.

Yup and galway has it's fair share of those types some more well known than others along with few on this thread. Guess the cycle mantra won't be diluted, decades long of government support ( mainly FF) for car ownership and piss poor PT infra imo should be a driving conversation here for reduction of the mpv's as it would have the best realistic chance of success.

Laviski · 06-06-2021 4:21pm

obi604 wrote: »

Bump. Need to head out that direction and wondering should I avoid.

Was out there last weekend, I headed out via spiddal/ rossaveal and came out at mamm cross, no delays.

On return journey wasn't in any rush, road works are just shortly after mamm cross heading to moycullen. It was about 20/25 minute delay. This was on a Sunday so I'd imagine it would be alot worse other days, if concerned about time take the scenic route, it's bendy but you go at a steady pace and be careful of the speedvans as a fair few spots of reduced speed limit.

Laviski · 06-06-2021 4:32pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

You've just realised I see.

Chief, I understand, being stuck in traffic in a car every day is hard and it's easy to blame other road users, but you now know that cyclists aren't the problem.
You now know cycling doesn't make children sick.
You now know that kids get colds from germs.
You now know that green schools actively encourage kids to cycle to school.

Every day is a school day.

Love my car, not hard at all with the tech inside. (And no not using mobile while driving), just plan journeys with appropriate time. Post covid make it even easier.
Cyclist are not a problem, yes but they are not the solution either.
Not wearing appropriate clothes for the weather can contribute to getting sick (note video it was admitted they got drownded)
Germ yes they are everywhere
Schools don't want incidents published in the paper.

And yes if your not learning your wasting your time.

06-06-2021 6:58pm

Laviski wrote: »

Guess the cycle mantra won't be diluted, decades long of government support ( mainly FF) for car ownership and piss poor PT infra imo should be a driving conversation here for reduction of the mpv's as it would have the best realistic chance of success.

I think a lot of the bike talk is because it's a sustainable option and an immediate resolution of the traffic problem for those it suits. The frustration is with the lack of implementation of the councils own published plans and policies to make it safer, better connected and open to less confident or assertive cyclists. That's despite funding and staff being available but not being drawn down.

Public transport is the key to travel within the city for most, but the current offering is very poor and no sign of any urgency or much ambition in sorting it. Any improvement is painfully slow. It feels like there's little we can do to make it happen?

zell12 · 06-06-2021 7:20pm

Council need to be directed by Ministers to act; that it's how you move people around efficiently, not private cars. Factor in climate change, carbon emissions etc..

It is mid-2021 and we're still talking about ring roads and traffic jams. It was the same in the 1960s

John_Rambo · 06-06-2021 8:28pm

Laviski wrote: »

Love my car, not hard at all with the tech inside. (And no not using mobile while driving), just plan journeys with appropriate time. Post covid make it even easier.

Don't get me wrong, love my cars too, we do motorised holidays! I'm not even a cycle commuter any more since I became self employed, I'm more reliant on the car now. I just like cyclists, I think they're a good addition to the road, more cyclists - less traffic. I have absolutely no problem driving behind a cyclist or cyclists taking the lane, there's usually good reason for it.

Laviski wrote: »

Cyclist are not a problem

Glad you've changed your mind because you're earlier posts about cyclists taking the lane sounded like you thought they were.

Laviski wrote: »

Good., yes but they are not the solution either.

No, they're part of the solution, as VanWildcard's right Public transport is a huge part of it, but people have to use it.

Laviski wrote: »

Not wearing appropriate clothes for the weather can contribute to getting sick (note video it was admitted they got drownded)

That's why cyclists wear appropriate clothing and getting wet is ok. My kids get soaked to the skin all the time, they swim in the sea, they get cold, they get too hot and they're never sick.

Laviski wrote: »

And yes if your not learning your wasting your time.

We're in agreement on this one at least!

Sorry for sounding a bit preachy earlier on.

06-06-2021 10:34pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

Sorry for sounding a bit preachy earlier on.

Careful now, don't let SeaSlacker see this - remember we're meant to address each other as scum and want to punch each other in the face!

Laviski · 06-06-2021 10:54pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

Glad you've changed your mind because you're earlier posts about cyclists taking the lane sounded like you thought they were.

it's just mentioning as an irritation as the incidents i come across there is absolute no reason for it. When cycling and going as a group or side by side and you know there is traffic behind, decent thing to do is to go single file for the 10 seconds to let the MPV's through. everyone gets along etc.

John_Rambo wrote: »

No, they're part of the solution, as VanWildcard's right Public transport is a huge part of it, but people have to use it.

to be honest i just don't see how that will make it attractive for people to give up their car, if your sitting in traffic and see cyclist in crap weather, you will have your heat/ac on and listen to radio or audiobooks or whatever, just nice and comfortable. However if you see busses whizzing by your every couple of minutes (and know bus would get you there 20+minutes sooner than car) you will be thinking to either get a taxi plate or leave car at home.

also no worries about being preachy, i'm just trying to diversify the conversation away from cycling stuff. they can pull z y z reports of how cycling is better yadda yadda ya. Its not going to change the mentality of car ownership due to successive governments planning in just incentivising car ownership. With awful planning, ripping up tram/train lines (granted country was broke), crap bus network with mainly at FF at the helm (surprised people still vote for them, wonder if the pro cycle lobby still do?)

07-06-2021 11:12am

I was in Maam Cross recently, works are still there but the new alignment is taking shape. Will be an interesting run when it finishes.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Careful now, don't let SeaSlacker see this - remember we're meant to address each other as scum and want to punch each other in the face!

It’s like the racists who say “I’m not a racist but” and then proceed to write exceptionally racist takes. It’s a subconscious thing.

07-06-2021 11:40am

Well at least you're becoming conscious of it.

07-06-2021 8:56pm

VanWildcard wrote: »

Well at least you're becoming conscious of it.

Of you & your crew’s “I don’t think of car drivers as scum, but....” takes? Yeah. Been aware for decades mate.

what_traffic · 08-06-2021 8:16am

The divide and conquer stuff is so old, childish and tiresome.
A lot of adults who walk,cycle or use public transport are also car drivers. Have a car sitting out in the driveway, its moves on average about once a week.

08-06-2021 9:38am

what_traffic wrote: »

The divide and conquer stuff is so old, childish and tiresome.
A lot of adults who walk,cycle or use public transport are also car drivers. Have a car sitting out in the driveway, its moves on average about once a week.

“The BLM taking the knee stuff is so old, childish and tiresome.
A lot of adults who go to football games are also black people. I have a black friend, I check in with him a few times a year.”

This is not to equate in any way the experience of black people with car drivers, only the similarity in anti car advocate language trying to avoid outing themselves as partisans and racists doing the same. It’s disingenuous, maybe even to themselves.

If you can put “I’m not a (thing), but…” before what you write, you’re masking partisanship.

what_traffic · 08-06-2021 10:10am

Deleted User wrote: »

“The BLM taking the knee stuff is so old, childish and tiresome.
A lot of adults who go to football games are also black people. I have a black friend, I check in with him a few times a year.”

This is not to equate in any way the experience of black people with car drivers, only the similarity in anti car advocate language trying to avoid outing themselves as partisans and racists doing the same. It’s disingenuous, maybe even to themselves.

If you can put “I’m not a (thing), but…” before what you write, you’re masking partisanship.

ok

You certainly are going down a rabbit hole here mate.

xckjoo · 08-06-2021 10:12am

Deleted User wrote: »

“The BLM taking the knee stuff is so old, childish and tiresome.
A lot of adults who go to football games are also black people. I have a black friend, I check in with him a few times a year.”

This is not to equate in any way the experience of black people with car drivers, only the similarity in anti car advocate language trying to avoid outing themselves as partisans and racists doing the same. It’s disingenuous, maybe even to themselves.

If you can put “I’m not a (thing), but…” before what you write, you’re masking partisanship.

Interesting. So if someone was to say they aren't equating the experience of black people with car drivers, but then go on to equate the language usage of both, would that disingenuous or just masking patisanship?

08-06-2021 11:55am

Personally I'm not anti anything. I've a drivers licence and have driven for nearly 2 decades.

However I recognise that the dominance of the car has made a mess of Galway city. I also recognise that if the city is to grow by a further 50% in population over the next 20 years then we need to look at other ways of moving people around.

It's widely acknowledged that the roads in Galway have reached capacity. So if you want to allow for 50% more people going to school, work, shopping then the private car has to suffer in terms of access and priority.

Nobody has said cars can't access the city, they still will be able to, just they will likely have to take a detour to allow for buses, bikes and pedestrians.

Cars will still be able to park, just not on the streets as that space will be given over to buses, bikes and pedestrians.

Cars will still be able to go from one side of the city to the other, but they will have to take a longer, roundabout route to allow space for buses, bikes and pedestrians.

Cars will still be able to go through junctions but the sequence of lights will allow buses and bikes to proceed first.

And so on

There is no one trying to stop you sitting in traffic, you want to, go right ahead.

Everyone else will be focused on getting from A to B in the quicker, cheaper and more environmentally friendly way

08-06-2021 12:25pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you can put “I’m not a (thing), but…” before what you write, you’re masking partisanship.

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."

- F. Scott Fitzgerald

08-06-2021 2:40pm

Someone's famous

https://twitter.com/kevigi/status/1402188269450842116?s=20

?Cee?view · 08-06-2021 2:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Someone's famous

https://twitter.com/kevigi/status/1402188269450842116?s=20

Just the attention he craves.

John_Rambo · 08-06-2021 6:34pm

Jaysus Mrs OBumble, scarlet for you!!

Mrs OBumble · 08-06-2021 7:29pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

Jaysus Mrs OBumble, scarlet for you!!

Not even slightly.

Cycling or walking in rain that heavy is dumb.

Forcing your kids to do it is crappy parenting, to put it politely.

If you are cycling or walking and a torrential downpour starts, stop and take shelter.

It ain't rocket science.

08-06-2021 7:46pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Not even slightly.

Cycling or walking in rain that heavy is dumb.

Forcing your kids to do it is crappy parenting, to put it politely.

If you are cycling or walking and a torrential downpour starts, stop and take shelter.

It ain't rocket science.

Thankfully we're not made of sugar

ben.schlomo · 08-06-2021 7:51pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Not even slightly.

Cycling or walking in rain that heavy is dumb.

Forcing your kids to do it is crappy parenting, to put it politely.

If you are cycling or walking and a torrential downpour starts, stop and take shelter.

It ain't rocket science.

Why? What will the rain do to you? Far more harm done on a walk on a fine day breathing in who knows what from the passing or stalled traffic.

what_traffic · 09-06-2021 9:12am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Forcing your kids to do it is crappy parenting, to put it politely.

That is the very opposite of polite.

John_Rambo · 09-06-2021 9:13am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Not even slightly.

Cycling or walking in rain that heavy is dumb.

Forcing your kids to do it is crappy parenting, to put it politely.

If you are cycling or walking and a torrential downpour starts, stop and take shelter.

It ain't rocket science.

Germs spread the cold & flu, not summer showers!!

Even if you weren't aware of this two years ago, you should certainly be aware by now! Wash your hands.

14-06-2021 9:43pm

The City Council has been awarded €735,000 and County Council €501,000 for "Additional Outdoor Infrastructure".

"The Additional Outdoor Infrastructure Fund enables measures such as cycling and walking infrastructure, the re-allocation of road and street space and traffic management arrangements."

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/b37ff-234-projects-to-receive-funding-under-additional-outdoor-infrastructure-fund/

https://twitter.com/Dept_Transport/status/1404415730167304201?s=19

21-06-2021 3:54pm

Great to see more safe streets being rolled out. 170 schools around the country, of which 11 in the city & county of Galway

https://twitter.com/GalwayCycling/status/1406940448866848774?s=20

24-06-2021 7:59am

The decision on the ring road has been pushed back again at the last minute. Was due in the next week, pushed to end of August now.

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/decision-on-galway-ring-road-proposal-encounters-further-delay/

zell12 · 24-06-2021 9:48am

VanWildcard wrote: »

The decision on the ring road has been pushed back again at the last minute. Was due in the next week, pushed to end of August now.https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/decision-on-galway-ring-road-proposal-encounters-further-delay/

August 2031?? :pac:

McGiver · 24-06-2021 12:19pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You might want to rethink that. Taking London as an example, the London Underground network carries 1.35 billion passengers every year, according to TfL, while about 2.1 billion bus journeys are taken in the capital. In fact look at any major city in Europe and you will find the same.

London is not an example for a city like Galway, it's rather silly to give examples of megacities when talking about Galway traffic. You must know that it's a red herring. London is a Global Alpha++ city, the only one in Europe. Dublin is Alpha- city and Belfast Gamma+ city just for comparison.

Furthermore, UK as a whole has historically centred its PT strategy around buses (despite its extensive light-rail network up to pre-WW2), which is rather different case than continental Europe. And this is one of the reasons that it largely ended up quite car dependent as a result. UK is the exception to the rule, so not a good role model overall.

But nonetheless, in the European cities, where you claim bus networks are extensive, if you look closely at them, then you can clearly see they are not the core of the PT strategy - generally the underground, tram and/or urban rail are the core part of the strategy and buses are ancillary legacy technology. Without the core rail/tram/underground the cities would choke with pollution & PT would come to a halt. Buses are simply not a solution after a certain point, the throughput is just too low, they are too slow and also they're polluting unless electric. I'd argue buses are good for a provincial town of max 50k people, but once the town becomes a city it needs a better solution as an addition to the buses. This is the reason why several cities in the UK have been trying to catch up to Europe and building light-rail systems.

Have you been to Vienna, Prague, Copenhagen?

Much smaller cities than London and of course in all of them buses are only ancillary. The core/skeleton of the PT is tram, underground and train (Prague & Vienna) or underground and train (Copenhagen).

Now, let's have a look at a more reasonable case worth as a case study applicable for Galway - Linz, Austria, population 200k, the PT map is below. 1, 2, 3, 4, 50 are tram lines, the rest buses.

Firstly, I call a bluff on the Corrib argument as it was an insurmountable river Amazon cutting through Galway City! Linz is split into three parts by two rivers, one of which is rather large (Danube) and despite that the PT including trams serves and integrates all the three zones.

Secondly, you can clearly see that the light-rail is the core of the network doing the long distance high volume North-South and West-East long routes. While buses are doing either radial routes or short "local" routes to server single or neighbouring districts. Also, notice the rather large number of interchanges where several tram & bus routes intersect.

This is how you design PT in a modern city, livable, European city.

There are dozens and dozens case studies from 100-200k cities on the continent where GCC/NTA could be looking at and literally pick and chose and design something similar for here. Sadly, instead they only look at England 30 years ago before they started looking into light-rail and on top copy the old-school English approach badly as well.

The problem in Galway is not lack of funding but lack of vision, ambition and poor governance (in that order).

McGiver · 24-06-2021 2:38pm

Another example of a very solid light-rail project is from Sweden, and certainly a good case study for Galway.

http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/se/lund/lund.htm
https://old-sparvaglund.lund.se/om-projektet/summary-in-english/
https://www.railway-technology.com/projects/lund-tramway-scania/

Location: Lund, Skåne, Sweden
Population: 92k (120k municipal)
Lines: 1 (1 more planned)
Length: 5.5 km
Completed: Dec 2020
Costs: ~150m EUR

Rationale - using a sustainable solution increase the PT througput into an area which is being redeveloped, regenerated and expanded = future planning. They basically build a tram route from the city centre to a new area which they plan to expand to 50k people in next years.

https://youtu.be/5uEYhTfSHO8

Worth noting that Lund is a university town and hosts quite a few hi-tech companies & industries. And it positions itself similarly as Galway.

Mrs OBumble · 24-06-2021 2:54pm

McGiver wrote: »

Another example of a very solid light-rail project is from Sweden, and certainly a good case study for Galway.

...

They basically build a tram route from the city centre to a new area which they plan to expand to 50k people in next years.

https://youtu.be/5uEYhTfSHO8

Worth noting that Lund is a university town and hosts quite a few hi-tech companies & industries. And it positions itself similarly as Galway.

Ok, so if you were building a tram route from Ardaun to Galway city centre, where would you route it past? Parkmore / Ballybrit / Liosbaun (where residents are likely to work)? Or Roscam / GMIT (where they may study) / the Bons / Wellpark?

McGiver · 24-06-2021 5:08pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ok, so if you were building a tram route from Ardaun to Galway city centre, where would you route it past? Parkmore / Ballybrit / Liosbaun (where residents are likely to work)? Or Roscam / GMIT (where they may study) / the Bons / Wellpark?

These are all details, minutae and red herrings. First, we need to agree what's needed - shortermism & patches of patches or real strategic sustainable planning.

If you look at light-rail systems in Europe - there are several dozens of them - they generally involve future city expansion & planning in the design.

The issue here is that NTA/GCC react only ex-post. They don't consider PT as a stragetic matter to be assessed jointly with the city growth/expansion strategy.

The often repeated mantra "you build it and they will come" actually applies double for light-rail/urban rail/undeground infrastructure - but more in a sense that you bring the infra to areas where you are building, plan or expect significant development yourself and upfront.

It's not a rocket scicence, it's just acknoledgement of the fact that PT is an essential infra in the same bracket as water pipes, gas pipes, electricity or broadband. It MUST be at the core of any city planning and expansion, and it indeed was/is in most cities on the continent.

Hope it makes sense:cool:

McGiver · 24-06-2021 6:09pm

what_traffic wrote: »

I'd say NTA have finally shaken down the IDA to contribute a good bit towards transport infrastructure in Parkmore.
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Parkmore-Area-Strategic-Transport-Framework.pdf

Not too bad, do we know how many of the "08 PROPOSED PROJECTS - Phase 1" have been completed? These are the short term solutions for 2020/2021.

Overall, largely cosmetic patching as opposed to strategic development in my opinion, but at least they try consolidating the patches into one framework.

27-06-2021 11:04pm

McGiver wrote: »

These are all details, minutae and red herrings. First, we need to agree to…(Insert -ism here).

It’s this attitude, in itself, that is the reason *nothing* gets built. It may be minutia to you, but to someone else it’s their home either a place to live or CPOed out of existence.

Mrs OBumble · 27-06-2021 11:13pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s this attitude, in itself, that is the reason *nothing* gets built. It may be minutia to you, but to someone else it’s their home either a place to live or CPOed out of existence.

My question was about fundamental understanding of the city: of the two options, one connects homes with jobs, the other connects them with schools and hospitals. Which does the poster pick?

IMHO, ilt's the homes/jobs connection that gets more people using public transport (students will use it anyway, or will walk/cycle). But some campaigners just don't get that point.

McGiver · 28-06-2021 3:54pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

My question was about fundamental understanding of the city: of the two options, one connects homes with jobs, the other connects them with schools and hospitals. Which does the poster pick?

IMHO, ilt's the homes/jobs connection that gets more people using public transport (students will use it anyway, or will walk/cycle). But some campaigners just don't get that point.

The poster has a name, just FYI. This way of reference is borderline condenscending and/or passive-aggressive in my opinion.

Back to the topic - first, there is vision and ambition. Then there are details to be sorted. Whereas you first come with details before vision and ambition and bog down/kill any ideas before they are born or get traction. Not a smart strategy...

McGiver · 28-06-2021 3:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s this attitude, in itself, that is the reason *nothing* gets built. It may be minutia to you, but to someone else it’s their home either a place to live or CPOed out of existence.

Right, if you think so. I don't agree at all.

All what I see a very many arguments for "why not" whenever anything progressive/different is suggested. "Let's do it" and "if there's a will there's a way" attitude is missing. Instead, discussions are bogged down in details discussing "why not", right at the start. Any serious vision or ambition can't arise from this sort of climate.

I see a lot of, what to me looks like insularism, going on, to be honest. I'd say outside view is badly needed in Galway to broaden horizons, but I can see that it's not really welcome. And this is demonstrated even in this, let's say, moderately more open forum here.

Can only repeat myself that, and it's not only my opinion but an observation of outsiders from several different European nationalities, the issue in this town is - lack of vision, ambition and poor governance. It generally extends to most of Ireland, but it's very deep in Galway (for some reason), and some towns can do better indeed.

Mrs OBumble · 28-06-2021 4:45pm

McGiver wrote: »

Right, if you think so. I don't agree at all.

All what I see a very many arguments for "why not" whenever anything progressive/different is suggested. "Let's do it" and "if there's a will there's a way" attitude is missing. Instead, discussions are bogged down in details discussing "why not", right at the start. Any serious vision or ambition can't arise from this sort of climate.

I see a lot of, what to me looks like insularism, going on, to be honest. I'd say outside view is badly needed in Galway to broaden horizons, but I can see that it's not really welcome. And this is demonstrated even in this, let's say, moderately more open forum here.

Can only repeat myself that, and it's not only my opinion but an observation of outsiders from several different European nationalities, the issue in this town is - lack of vision, ambition and poor governance. It generally extends to most of Ireland, but it's very deep in Galway (for some reason), and some towns can do better indeed.

Where do you think I come from?

McGiver · 30-06-2021 1:49pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Where do you think I come from?

Not that I'm not interested, but is this a quizz or should we better discuss the topic (traffic in Galway) or better the specific points I made about PT, light-rail etc? :rolleyes:

Redkite200 · 03-07-2021 5:56pm

I was part of traffic today unfortunately as I had to give someone a lift into town but my god the traffic around the Headford Rd / Terryland etc was absolutely desperate. That McDonalds drive thru seemed to be causing a huge amount of it as far as I could see with the queues coming in and out of the retail park.

zell12 · 03-07-2021 7:07pm

Redkite200 wrote: »

That McDonalds drive thru seemed to be causing a huge amount of it as far as I could see with the queues coming in and out of the retail park.

Wasn't that great on d'other side either, someone plonked their car on the footpath and cycle lane on Seamus Quirke whilst running into McD's :rolleyes:

04-07-2021 9:58pm

Redkite200 wrote: »

That McDonalds drive thru seemed to be causing a huge amount of it as far as I could see with the queues coming in and out of the retail park.

Same again today - drive thru queue stretching out to the main road.

05-07-2021 1:26am

McGiver wrote: »

Can only repeat myself that, and it's not only my opinion but an observation of outsiders from several different European nationalities, the issue in this town is - lack of vision, ambition and poor governance. It generally extends to most of Ireland, but it's very deep in Galway (for some reason), and some towns can do better indeed.

Well, when you’ve a neighbour country that made your decisions for you for 700 of the last 800 years, you’d be cagey too about outsiders looking at cookie cutter solutions & throwing their weight behind an -ism to make decisions instead of looking at what people actually want.

McGiver · 05-07-2021 5:39pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, when you’ve a neighbour country that made your decisions for you for 700 of the last 800 years, you’d be cagey too about outsiders looking at cookie cutter solutions & throwing their weight behind an -ism to make decisions instead of looking at what people actually want.

That's probaly the poorest argument I've heard in ages...Who's making a decision on your behalf in the context we're discussing here????

The "outsiders" have a) experience with solutions that work (they're not making stuff up) and b) equal right to contribute (or at least I thought). Why would you be cagey at all? I don't understand at all...

You really need to be more open-minded and encourage discussion. Be more ambitous and find ways how to do things, not killing ideas right at the start trying to find millions reasons for "why it can't work". Aim very high and then settle for good. If you aim low then you settle for crap...

If a German or an American with an expertise, experience and good ideas came to my town and honestly suggested a solution to a local problem, I'd listen him carefully and happily agreed to him and supported him if his proposition was sound.

McGiver · 05-07-2021 5:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

... instead of looking at what people actually want.

Are you saying the people of Galway:
1. Don't want effective non-polluting modern European style light-rail system.
2. But rather want a second class polluting (hello diesel), slow and ineffective bus system instead.

#2 is what you'll likely get in the end with the "Bus Connects" if you're lucky...

donvito99 · 05-07-2021 6:15pm

McGiver wrote: »

Are you saying the people of Galway:
1. Don't want effective non-polluting modern European style light-rail system.
2. But rather want a second class polluting (hello diesel), slow and ineffective bus system instead.

#2 is what you'll likely get in the end with the "Bus Connects" if you're lucky...

A proper bus system could well be faster than a tram system, given the same priority and stopping pattern.

A proper bus system can be all electric, with zero tail pipe emissions and as silent as a tram.

A proper bus system can be more effective than a tram system in that it can branch out, covering far more of the city for a tiny fraction of the cost.

Squeeonline · 05-07-2021 9:18pm

donvito99 wrote: »

A proper bus system could well be faster than a tram system, given the same priority and stopping pattern.

A proper bus system can be all electric, with zero tail pipe emissions and as silent as a tram.

A proper bus system can be more effective than a tram system in that it can branch out, covering far more of the city for a tiny fraction of the cost.

I love trams, but electric buses do not require tracks. Overhead lines are infrastructure that can be used too. The city I'm living in now has natural gas buses which are also clean running (vs diesel).

I believe that there is a capacity difference too with Trams having a greater capacity than buses and greater priority in traffic. (Electric) busses should be only be considered temporary while funds are gathered for a proper light rail or metro system.

Mrs OBumble · 05-07-2021 9:31pm

McGiver wrote: »

If a German or an American with an expertise, experience and good ideas came to my town and honestly suggested a solution to a local problem, I'd listen him carefully and happily agreed to him and supported him if his proposition was sound.

But part of assessing whether his proposition is sound involves assessing its fit with the local culture.

My observation is that very, very many Irish people do not want to live in the type of density that makes fixed line services viable. They aspire to move away from built up areas, to more private ones. Some grudgingly accept that environmental concerns mean that everyone cannot have the rural paradise which Dev dreamed of - but that doesn't mean they want to turn into Continental Europeans either! People from outside Dublin go up, and catch the Luas red-line, and in one journey see that the videos of lads getting on board with a horse might not be that far-fetched. They DO NOT want that for Galway.

Foreign blow-ins like myself can look at things and say "life could be different" - and even model how: I've been living a minimal private transport inner-city lifestyle for ten years. I regularly use public transport. But I'm now child-free and I know that what I do isn't possible for many.

But we don't get to be prescriptive that particular solutions that work well overseas being a good fit for this city. If Irish people want their culture to change - that's up to Irish people to decide and do, not for outsiders to impose.

Galway traffic

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