Transport Aircraft

Dohvolle · 23-03-2021 3:45pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

For sure. Remember that once the King Airs went, we had no aerial coverage of our EEZ, which is huge. The Casas gave the ability to reach out, right out to the ends of the zones and see what was out there. In pure terms of hours flown, the AC has probably got the highest houred Casas going. This follows the pattern set by the Hs 125 (highest hours per year of type), Gulfstreams (same again), King Airs (routinely exceeded annual hours of worldwide King Air fleet)and the Casas easily exceeded the global fleet average. A Casa would routinely do a 6 hr patrol and it might do that three times a week (or more,depending on what and who was available),so each one could be doing 700 hrs a year, which is way ahead of the average Casa,not including training, ferry flights to overhaul, flights such as para drops, aeromedical and so on. So,in terms of pure utility,definitely worth the money.

I always thought it was a pity 250 was handed back. It would have spread the training and transport workload that the 2 blue ones had to do instead.

Dohvolle · 23-03-2021 3:49pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

There are political reasons both Portugal and Hungary are taking on Embraers.

I can't see Ireland acquiring anything outside of the EU defence stable for years to come.

I still think the best option for our needs is an A320/1 with modular interior fit-out, wet leased in these bargain times, is most suitable for our needs for the foreseeable future.

Although an A400M would be a great asset.

Wet leasing was ruled out by a panel of experts in the industry during a recent webinar.
If we had wet-leased something like a A320 12 months ago it would have ended up sitting on the ramp as when some countries closed their airspace, only military registered flights could operate, and the underwriters would say that while the aircraft was only leased, it remained on the civil register, and large fines could follow for operating it outside its lease.

Stovepipe · 23-03-2021 5:26pm

if it was a govt flight, then it wouldnt have been grounded. In a lot of cases, business jets continued to fly as normal. Somebody making a case to avoid wet leasing?

Larbre34 · 23-03-2021 5:54pm

Yeah, we've had to send PC12s and the Learjet off on pond hops to central Africa and still charter planes to rotate UN battalions, many of them badly delayed. Thats before we mention the Aer Lingus flights to the far east to collect PPE cargo and returning with the cartons strapped to passengers seats.

A webinar of self appointment experts can say whatever they like, I will not have my opinion changed on the desirability of a multirole modular state aircraft for military, government and civil aid use.

jonnybigwallet · 23-03-2021 6:01pm

Emm. I used to be supportive about buying or leasing a redundant civil airliner as a troop transport with the front of the cabin fitted out as a government / state flight for the cabinet / president etc....but I've changed me mind because these planes can't carry vehicles such as APC'S ,artillery,etc. Nor are they really suitable for parachuting or disaster relief etc. The Embraer ticks all the boxes above. Bring it on! It could also take pressure off the new CASA'S when they arrive, so that they don't get flogged to death like the present ones.

Dohvolle · 23-03-2021 7:10pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

Yeah, we've had to send PC12s and the Learjet off on pond hops to central Africa and still charter planes to rotate UN battalions, many of them badly delayed. Thats before we mention the Aer Lingus flights to the far east to collect PPE cargo and returning with the cartons strapped to passengers seats.

A webinar of self appointment experts can say whatever they like, I will not have my opinion changed on the desirability of a multirole modular state aircraft for military, government and civil aid use.

Yeah, experts in the trade, what would they know compared to some anon on boardsie. You don't work for the DoD by any chance?

Larbre34 · 23-03-2021 7:54pm

Dohvolle wrote: »

Yeah, experts in the trade, what would they know compared to some anon on boardsie. You don't work for the DoD by any chance?

Obviously not. They'd be the last people to advocate for a plane. In fact they kiboshed the last time the AC went looking for one

Psychlops · 23-03-2021 9:38pm

Air Corps goes from weakness to weakness..

https://flyinginireland.com/2021/03/cae-to-train-irish-air-corps-pilots-in-the-usa/

sparky42 · 23-03-2021 10:25pm

Psychlops wrote: »

Air Corps goes from weakness to weakness..

https://flyinginireland.com/2021/03/cae-to-train-irish-air-corps-pilots-in-the-usa/

If it means getting pilot numbers back up then it has to be done. At the rate the NS is hemorrhaging for new personnel I wouldn't be hugely surprised if they end up having to use the RN like they used to.

roadmaster · 23-03-2021 10:29pm

sparky42 wrote: »

If it means getting pilot numbers back up then it has to be done. At the rate the NS is hemorrhaging for new personnel I wouldn't be hugely surprised if they end up having to use the RN like they used to.

Or maybe Australia!

Psychlops · 23-03-2021 10:36pm

sparky42 wrote: »

If it means getting pilot numbers back up then it has to be done. At the rate the NS is hemorrhaging for new personnel I wouldn't be hugely surprised if they end up having to use the RN like they used to.

But its not, the article says they dont have enough to train in house in Bal on the PC9, this is including engineers, thats as close as your going to get to grounding airframes!

Stovepipe · 23-03-2021 11:51pm

They tried to get former mechs back but only a few took up the offer. The terms were less than sparkling,to say the least, to immerse yourself in Military bull**** all over again, so people stayed away in droves. If they offered jobs as civvy B1/B2 mechs, they'd fill the place in the morning.

roadmaster · 24-03-2021 12:32am

Stovepipe wrote: »

They tried to get former mechs back but only a few took up the offer. The terms were less than sparkling,to say the least, to immerse yourself in Military bull**** all over again, so people stayed away in droves. If they offered jobs as civvy B1/B2 mechs, they'd fill the place in the morning.

Considering the current aviation problems why will penot go back. Is it the money or the way other ranks treat them?

Stovepipe · 24-03-2021 10:31am

A Type Rated B1 or B2 engineer can make EU 70 k outside. Why would he bother taking military grief for less money and a rigid hierarchy to deal with, when he has all the autonomy he needs?

jonnybigwallet · 11-05-2021 7:18am

I wonder if the AC bought a couple of them Basler T67 aircraft would they be useful for parachute training and resupply of overseas contingents? Tis a jolly robust machine and even incuse by a branch of the US military today. Might be a le to source the donor DC3 in Ireland?

Stovepipe · 11-05-2021 9:41am

the tailwheel is old hat and the lack of a ramp is not acceptable. Not a hope.

Larbre34 · 11-05-2021 1:11pm

Yeah ideal, a couple of Dakotas, perfect.

We can even specify them in 1940s colour scheme and the old bi-colour roundel. Might even get some lad to dress up as a cranky Airborne Colonel and threaten to take St Mere Eglise from the Nazis.

Stovepipe · 11-05-2021 2:13pm

The Basler T67 is actually a very good and capable aircraft but its very much a niche aircraft; light cargo,parachuting, rough field operations. The Air Corps wouldnt touch it with a bargepole.

jonnybigwallet · 11-05-2021 3:30pm

You are correct Stovepipe. First class machine. 5 foot fuselage stretch, new pointy nose housing brand new avionics kit and mods to the wing tips to improve efficiency. And brand new turbo prop engines. Jolly good all round refit and comes with an approved zero hours airframe warranty.

sparky42 · 03-06-2021 9:50pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

There are political reasons both Portugal and Hungary are taking on Embraers.

I can't see Ireland acquiring anything outside of the EU defence stable for years to come.

I still think the best option for our needs is an A320/1 with modular interior fit-out, wet leased in these bargain times, is most suitable for our needs for the foreseeable future.

Although an A400M would be a great asset.

Speaking of the Embraers, Brazil is cutting their order putting more pressure on the company.

Larbre34 · 04-06-2021 1:37am

sparky42 wrote: »

Speaking of the Embraers, Brazil is cutting their order putting more pressure on the company.

While at the same time expressing desire to double its Saab Gripen order, to 70. A clear symbol of the Bolsonaro mentality.

Dohvolle · 04-06-2021 11:57am

Larbre34 wrote: »

While at the same time expressing desire to double its Saab Gripen order, to 70. A clear symbol of the Bolsonaro mentality.

Not so much.
Boeing pulled out of a deal that saw them doing some assembly for the export market. The aircraft isn't getting the international orders, and as a result costs will be higher for what is in effect an untested aircraft.
The Decision was made by the head of the FAB.

jonnybigwallet · 04-06-2021 12:30pm

Great opportunity for the AC to place an order for a couple of them KC390'S and not have to get to the back of a long queue for delivery...probably cop a good deal as well to get some production ramped up to previous expected levels.

Larbre34 · 04-06-2021 1:38pm

Ever tried a career in second hand car sales Jonny?

These airframes won't be idle seeking buyers, they're built to order. And they still cost as much per unit as one P60 OPV, so no, the AC won't be going around kicking tyres anytime soon.

Dohvolle · 04-06-2021 8:42pm

Better chance of buying a new De Lorean.

Psychlops · 04-06-2021 9:14pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Great opportunity for the AC to place an order for a couple of them KC390'S and not have to get to the back of a long queue for delivery...probably cop a good deal as well to get some production ramped up to previous expected levels.

And with what pilots to fly them?

Topgear on Dave · 04-06-2021 10:07pm

Spotted this in Ken Foxe tweets today. A minor story about installation of some kind of defensive system and the debate over whether we need it.

https://www.thestory.ie/2021/06/03/department-of-defence-sensitivities-over-installation-of-defensive-aid-suites-in-order-for-two-new-e110-million-aircraft/

However, the Department were at pains to say this was not confirmation that the two maritime patrol aircraft might be used in “possible future deployments to conflict zones”.

Yes they are expensive aircraft but they are only buying two and they will have a very very long lifespan so surely cover all the bases when you are buying them.

sparky42 · 04-06-2021 10:14pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Spotted this in Ken Foxe tweets today. A minor story about installation of some kind of defensive system and the debate over whether we need it.

https://www.thestory.ie/2021/06/03/department-of-defence-sensitivities-over-installation-of-defensive-aid-suites-in-order-for-two-new-e110-million-aircraft/

Yes they are expensive aircraft but they are only buying two and they will have a very very long lifespan so surely cover all the bases when you are buying them.

Not just the debate about needing them, but the fact DOD felt the need to tell the DF that this shouldn’t mean they will be used in areas where they might need defensive suits... :rolleyes:
First the minister has made it clear he’d like to see the AC operate outside of the EEZ and second these planes are going to be around for 20+ years, did it occurs to them that maybe in that period we might start being a bit more grown up in defence?

Topgear on Dave · 04-06-2021 10:31pm

Now, now, maybe the folks in the department are worried they will come back to the office after a bank holiday to find out the DF have invaded Russia in their absence over the long weekend. The DF is like that.

Grown up? Why? Our magical shield of neutrality will protect us.

sparky42 · 04-06-2021 10:38pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Now, now, maybe the folks in the department are worried they will come back to the office after a bank holiday to find out the DC have invaded Russia in their absence over the long weekend. The DF is like that.

Grown up? Why? Our magical shield of neutrality will protect us.

Hey, the DF will leave a note before hand...
And of course the magic neutrality will continue, now excuse us while we spend another week with the HSE IT systems fecked and hope other major systems like the ESB are in better shape...

Transport Aircraft

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