Transport Aircraft

sparky42 · 24-11-2020 11:24pm

roadmaster wrote: »

Thats easily solved with Air Station Shannon or if the healy raes had there way Air Station Kerry!

Put them in Kerry and that shower will want them in the National Park cutting Rhodo's all day long.

25-11-2020 2:58am

Its cool, Healy-Rae plant hire will take a chunk out of the hill for you.

roadmaster · 25-11-2020 12:09pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Its cool, Healy-Rae plant hire will take a chunk out of the hill for you.

An upgrade the runway

roadmaster · 22-03-2021 10:12pm

If the British where saleing the Hercs and Pumas cheep that they are retiring would it be worth the government putting a bid in or would they be ready for the scrap yard?

Stovepipe · 22-03-2021 11:14pm

Dohvolle wrote: »

You get a lot of aircraft for €175m. The two casa C295 are costing us €221.6m!

considering that a Casa costs about 30 million a pop, thats a hell of a contract. I'd imagine the salesman who wangled that one is picking out a new Veyron as we speak. That's 160 mills left for spares and overhauls and you can be sure that there's a healthy chunk of profit in there.

Stovepipe · 22-03-2021 11:17pm

lease a few 390s. Embraer would bite your hand off for the business. Ireland is the world leader in aircraft leasing so we have people who know how to do it properly. Lease in 3 or 4 390s and you'd have a fast, efficient modern airlifter with excellent spares support.

jonnybigwallet · 23-03-2021 12:36am

I agree with that 100 per cent. No point in buying UK cast offs.
Get some decent kit that's fit for purpose and reliable. Embraer make damned good planes. Could probably manage with two of them just fine and they are keenly priced.

jonnybigwallet · 23-03-2021 12:02pm

Hungary and Portugal have been given delivery dates 2022 23 for their Embraer purchases. The AC could wait that long. Similar timescale to recent deliveries from Pilatus. I see the RAF are disposing of their early model Typhoons...could come in handy if the price is right? Pretty new kit inlike the Hercs so might be worth getting.

Stovepipe · 23-03-2021 12:54pm

Dohvolle wrote: »

Source?
I assume you mean a C295 in standard configuration costs €30m. I know 20 years ago Poland paid $212m for 8, in standard configuration. (Adjusting for inflation, The equivalent of $314 today=$40m each.
We aren't getting standard config, we are getting MPA config, with search radar and flir, and a host of other MPA specific fitouts, plus parts and maintenance support. A similar deal for the CN235 has seen them give us almost 30 years of trouble free heavy use.

Certainly not trouble free. They were new and essentially untested in real world maritime operations. Casa were not good at spares support and were a bit rubbish and took offence when we complained. Because they were unique, there was often only one or two of critical things like radar scanners and the relevant computer so they cost a fortune. They were basically a regional airliner with bits added and the real miracle is that they lasted as long as they have done. These aircraft have been pounded around the Atlantic and its no wonder they got wing boxes replaced.

roadmaster · 23-03-2021 1:32pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

Certainly not trouble free. They were new and essentially untested in real world maritime operations. Casa were not good at spares support and were a bit rubbish and took offence when we complained. Because they were unique, there was often only one or two of critical things like radar scanners and the relevant computer so they cost a fortune. They were basically a regional airliner with bits added and the real miracle is that they lasted as long as they have done. These aircraft have been pounded around the Atlantic and its no wonder they got wing boxes replaced.

What are the cases hours like compared to other nations. Have we got got value out of them over the last 27 years for a maritime aircraft?

Stovepipe · 23-03-2021 3:23pm

For sure. Remember that once the King Airs went, we had no aerial coverage of our EEZ, which is huge. The Casas gave the ability to reach out, right out to the ends of the zones and see what was out there. In pure terms of hours flown, the AC has probably got the highest houred Casas going. This follows the pattern set by the Hs 125 (highest hours per year of type), Gulfstreams (same again), King Airs (routinely exceeded annual hours of worldwide King Air fleet)and the Casas easily exceeded the global fleet average. A Casa would routinely do a 6 hr patrol and it might do that three times a week (or more,depending on what and who was available),so each one could be doing 700 hrs a year, which is way ahead of the average Casa,not including training, ferry flights to overhaul, flights such as para drops, aeromedical and so on. So,in terms of pure utility,definitely worth the money.

Larbre34 · 23-03-2021 3:42pm

There are political reasons both Portugal and Hungary are taking on Embraers.

I can't see Ireland acquiring anything outside of the EU defence stable for years to come.

I still think the best option for our needs is an A320/1 with modular interior fit-out, wet leased in these bargain times, is most suitable for our needs for the foreseeable future.

Although an A400M would be a great asset.

Stovepipe · 23-03-2021 5:26pm

if it was a govt flight, then it wouldnt have been grounded. In a lot of cases, business jets continued to fly as normal. Somebody making a case to avoid wet leasing?

Larbre34 · 23-03-2021 5:54pm

Yeah, we've had to send PC12s and the Learjet off on pond hops to central Africa and still charter planes to rotate UN battalions, many of them badly delayed. Thats before we mention the Aer Lingus flights to the far east to collect PPE cargo and returning with the cartons strapped to passengers seats.

A webinar of self appointment experts can say whatever they like, I will not have my opinion changed on the desirability of a multirole modular state aircraft for military, government and civil aid use.

jonnybigwallet · 23-03-2021 6:01pm

Emm. I used to be supportive about buying or leasing a redundant civil airliner as a troop transport with the front of the cabin fitted out as a government / state flight for the cabinet / president etc....but I've changed me mind because these planes can't carry vehicles such as APC'S ,artillery,etc. Nor are they really suitable for parachuting or disaster relief etc. The Embraer ticks all the boxes above. Bring it on! It could also take pressure off the new CASA'S when they arrive, so that they don't get flogged to death like the present ones.

Larbre34 · 23-03-2021 7:54pm

Dohvolle wrote: »

Yeah, experts in the trade, what would they know compared to some anon on boardsie. You don't work for the DoD by any chance?

Obviously not. They'd be the last people to advocate for a plane. In fact they kiboshed the last time the AC went looking for one

Psychlops · 23-03-2021 9:38pm

Air Corps goes from weakness to weakness..

https://flyinginireland.com/2021/03/cae-to-train-irish-air-corps-pilots-in-the-usa/

sparky42 · 23-03-2021 10:25pm

Psychlops wrote: »

Air Corps goes from weakness to weakness..

https://flyinginireland.com/2021/03/cae-to-train-irish-air-corps-pilots-in-the-usa/

If it means getting pilot numbers back up then it has to be done. At the rate the NS is hemorrhaging for new personnel I wouldn't be hugely surprised if they end up having to use the RN like they used to.

roadmaster · 23-03-2021 10:29pm

sparky42 wrote: »

If it means getting pilot numbers back up then it has to be done. At the rate the NS is hemorrhaging for new personnel I wouldn't be hugely surprised if they end up having to use the RN like they used to.

Or maybe Australia!

Psychlops · 23-03-2021 10:36pm

sparky42 wrote: »

If it means getting pilot numbers back up then it has to be done. At the rate the NS is hemorrhaging for new personnel I wouldn't be hugely surprised if they end up having to use the RN like they used to.

But its not, the article says they dont have enough to train in house in Bal on the PC9, this is including engineers, thats as close as your going to get to grounding airframes!

Stovepipe · 23-03-2021 11:51pm

They tried to get former mechs back but only a few took up the offer. The terms were less than sparkling,to say the least, to immerse yourself in Military bull**** all over again, so people stayed away in droves. If they offered jobs as civvy B1/B2 mechs, they'd fill the place in the morning.

roadmaster · 24-03-2021 12:32am

Stovepipe wrote: »

They tried to get former mechs back but only a few took up the offer. The terms were less than sparkling,to say the least, to immerse yourself in Military bull**** all over again, so people stayed away in droves. If they offered jobs as civvy B1/B2 mechs, they'd fill the place in the morning.

Considering the current aviation problems why will penot go back. Is it the money or the way other ranks treat them?

Stovepipe · 24-03-2021 10:31am

A Type Rated B1 or B2 engineer can make EU 70 k outside. Why would he bother taking military grief for less money and a rigid hierarchy to deal with, when he has all the autonomy he needs?

jonnybigwallet · 11-05-2021 7:18am

I wonder if the AC bought a couple of them Basler T67 aircraft would they be useful for parachute training and resupply of overseas contingents? Tis a jolly robust machine and even incuse by a branch of the US military today. Might be a le to source the donor DC3 in Ireland?

Stovepipe · 11-05-2021 9:41am

the tailwheel is old hat and the lack of a ramp is not acceptable. Not a hope.

Larbre34 · 11-05-2021 1:11pm

Yeah ideal, a couple of Dakotas, perfect.

We can even specify them in 1940s colour scheme and the old bi-colour roundel. Might even get some lad to dress up as a cranky Airborne Colonel and threaten to take St Mere Eglise from the Nazis.

Stovepipe · 11-05-2021 2:13pm

The Basler T67 is actually a very good and capable aircraft but its very much a niche aircraft; light cargo,parachuting, rough field operations. The Air Corps wouldnt touch it with a bargepole.

jonnybigwallet · 11-05-2021 3:30pm

You are correct Stovepipe. First class machine. 5 foot fuselage stretch, new pointy nose housing brand new avionics kit and mods to the wing tips to improve efficiency. And brand new turbo prop engines. Jolly good all round refit and comes with an approved zero hours airframe warranty.

sparky42 · 03-06-2021 9:50pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

There are political reasons both Portugal and Hungary are taking on Embraers.

I can't see Ireland acquiring anything outside of the EU defence stable for years to come.

I still think the best option for our needs is an A320/1 with modular interior fit-out, wet leased in these bargain times, is most suitable for our needs for the foreseeable future.

Although an A400M would be a great asset.

Speaking of the Embraers, Brazil is cutting their order putting more pressure on the company.

Larbre34 · 04-06-2021 1:37am

sparky42 wrote: »

Speaking of the Embraers, Brazil is cutting their order putting more pressure on the company.

While at the same time expressing desire to double its Saab Gripen order, to 70. A clear symbol of the Bolsonaro mentality.

jonnybigwallet · 04-06-2021 12:30pm

Great opportunity for the AC to place an order for a couple of them KC390'S and not have to get to the back of a long queue for delivery...probably cop a good deal as well to get some production ramped up to previous expected levels.

Larbre34 · 04-06-2021 1:38pm

Ever tried a career in second hand car sales Jonny?

These airframes won't be idle seeking buyers, they're built to order. And they still cost as much per unit as one P60 OPV, so no, the AC won't be going around kicking tyres anytime soon.

Psychlops · 04-06-2021 9:14pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Great opportunity for the AC to place an order for a couple of them KC390'S and not have to get to the back of a long queue for delivery...probably cop a good deal as well to get some production ramped up to previous expected levels.

And with what pilots to fly them?

04-06-2021 10:07pm

Spotted this in Ken Foxe tweets today. A minor story about installation of some kind of defensive system and the debate over whether we need it.

https://www.thestory.ie/2021/06/03/department-of-defence-sensitivities-over-installation-of-defensive-aid-suites-in-order-for-two-new-e110-million-aircraft/

However, the Department were at pains to say this was not confirmation that the two maritime patrol aircraft might be used in “possible future deployments to conflict zones”.

Yes they are expensive aircraft but they are only buying two and they will have a very very long lifespan so surely cover all the bases when you are buying them.

sparky42 · 04-06-2021 10:14pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Spotted this in Ken Foxe tweets today. A minor story about installation of some kind of defensive system and the debate over whether we need it.

https://www.thestory.ie/2021/06/03/department-of-defence-sensitivities-over-installation-of-defensive-aid-suites-in-order-for-two-new-e110-million-aircraft/

Yes they are expensive aircraft but they are only buying two and they will have a very very long lifespan so surely cover all the bases when you are buying them.

Not just the debate about needing them, but the fact DOD felt the need to tell the DF that this shouldn’t mean they will be used in areas where they might need defensive suits... :rolleyes:
First the minister has made it clear he’d like to see the AC operate outside of the EEZ and second these planes are going to be around for 20+ years, did it occurs to them that maybe in that period we might start being a bit more grown up in defence?

04-06-2021 10:31pm

Now, now, maybe the folks in the department are worried they will come back to the office after a bank holiday to find out the DF have invaded Russia in their absence over the long weekend. The DF is like that.

Grown up? Why? Our magical shield of neutrality will protect us.

sparky42 · 04-06-2021 10:38pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Now, now, maybe the folks in the department are worried they will come back to the office after a bank holiday to find out the DC have invaded Russia in their absence over the long weekend. The DF is like that.

Grown up? Why? Our magical shield of neutrality will protect us.

Hey, the DF will leave a note before hand...
And of course the magic neutrality will continue, now excuse us while we spend another week with the HSE IT systems fecked and hope other major systems like the ESB are in better shape...

roadmaster · 05-06-2021 9:34am

They should have told the DOD they need the defence aids because since brexit the British fishermen in the Irish Sea have become very hostile and starring throwing fish at them when they do low passes!

Larbre34 · 05-06-2021 6:57pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Hey, the DF will leave a note before hand...
And of course the magic neutrality will continue, now excuse us while we spend another week with the HSE IT systems fecked and hope other major systems like the ESB are in better shape...

You're not wrong, but to my mind the greatest chaos would be caused if the social welfare system was brought down.

murf · 08-06-2021 12:56pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

You're not wrong, but to my mind the greatest chaos would be caused if the social welfare system was brought down.

Nothing causes panic more than "In that case, we can't run payroll".

Stovepipe · 16-06-2021 4:50am

Psychlops wrote: »

And with what pilots to fly them?

No shortage of pilots anywhere and the KC 390 is no harder than any Embraer to fly or operate. It's built by a very experienced company and existing pilots could convert onto type in a matter of weeks. If the AC wanted pilots to fly any transport type, you could do it in very short order. When it suits them, the DoD and the AC can pull out all the stops.

sparky42 · 16-06-2021 11:52am

Stovepipe wrote: »

No shortage of pilots anywhere and the KC 390 is no harder than any Embraer to fly or operate. It's built by a very experienced company and existing pilots could convert onto type in a matter of weeks. If the AC wanted pilots to fly any transport type, you could do it in very short order. When it suits them, the DoD and the AC can pull out all the stops.

Have you seen the take up for trying to get AC staff back or the new direct entry program?

roadmaster · 16-06-2021 2:45pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Have you seen the take up for trying to get AC staff back or the new direct entry program?

In fairness i think thats to do more with the T&Cs. If they dangled a big enoght carrot they would get them. We are going to be out of this covid nightmare soon and you will have aer lingus a330s doing bucket and spade runs and airline staff all over the world will be in high demand again, so most personal are just waiting for normallity to return rather than join the air corps at the bottom

Stovepipe · 16-06-2021 4:23pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Have you seen the take up for trying to get AC staff back or the new direct entry program?

I saw it and it's a disgrace. They want industry professionals (Cat A/B1/Degree) to join at the lowest possible pay scale and rank and then spend 16 weeks on infantry training to become 3 stars??!! After all the effort it takes to pass all the exams and build experience,work hard in an airline, keep learning,keep grafting and then be expected to join at the very bottom,when they should be brought in as civvy contractors and paid appropriately? Clearly not thought through.

ohnonotgmail · 17-06-2021 10:47am

Stovepipe wrote: »

I saw it and it's a disgrace. They want industry professionals (Cat A/B1/Degree) to join at the lowest possible pay scale and rank and then spend 16 weeks on infantry training to become 3 stars??!! After all the effort it takes to pass all the exams and build experience,work hard in an airline, keep learning,keep grafting and then be expected to join at the very bottom,when they should be brought in as civvy contractors and paid appropriately? Clearly not thought through.

They should create a Warrant Officer rank and bring them in at that.

Stovepipe · 17-06-2021 4:08pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

They should create a Warrant Officer rank and bring them in at that.

Just bring them in as civilian contractors. Every arm of the Civil Service does it, why should the AC be different? The Army has done it for decades.

Flinty997 · 17-06-2021 9:35pm

Air America maybe...

roadmaster · 16-08-2021 10:14am

I wonder is Mr coveney on the phone this morning to Airbus asking if the two spare transport casas parked up in seville still for sale?

Larbre34 · 16-08-2021 12:01pm

Even one would do.

But yeah, Minister for Foreign Affairs bemoans Irish citizens being stuck in Saigon, sorry Kabul, amid a fast moving Western policy catastrophe. If only he had the ear of the Minister for Defence to ask why the State doesn't have even one long range transport aircraft for just such eventualities!

Farce. As always.

ohnonotgmail · 16-08-2021 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117761329#Comment_117761329

would it not be easier to get them on a plane belonging to another EU member?

Transport Aircraft

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