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Transport Aircraft

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2456750

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Hope they don't buy a 737 max. Kiss of death that one.!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    banie01 wrote: »
    Just as an illustration of the volume of aircraft that will be hitting the 2nd hand and scrappage(unfortunately) markets in the coming months.

    EasyJet alone will be disposing of 41 twinjets as part of their restructuring.
    Lufthansa, Brussels Air, Air France all taking similar action.
    The Air Corps will never be able to buy a suitable twinjet this cheaply again IMO, and the choice is available for whatever they'd like from late model Boeing and Airbus.
    The state this country will be in after this I don't we wii even be able to opperate a twin never mind buy one and if the "Greens" have their way it will be a glider or hot air balloon the Air Corps will be getting.:mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,893 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The Country will be fine. Or at least a lot finer than many others and it'll be a buyers market for many things.

    If this new Govt is serious about solidifying counter-cyclical economics then they should spend the next two years using our excellent borrowing power and that of the EU Commission and EIB and stimulate, stimulate, stimulate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    They could start by creating some employment by building up the DF and getting the Air Corps a decent amount of fast jets as well as this mooted transport aircraft.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,893 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    They could start by creating some employment by building up the DF and getting the Air Corps a decent amount of fast jets as well as this mooted transport aircraft.

    No. As usual, no.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Heraldoffreeent


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    No. As usual, no.

    With Covid 19, you wouldn't feel the month ban go by.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,893 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    With Covid 19, you wouldn't feel the month ban go by.

    Was thinking that alright. A month short but sweet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    No need to gloat lads. There is such a thing as free speech and my motives are extremely progressive and patriotic. God bless and keep well!


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,893 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    No need to gloat lads. There is such a thing as free speech and my motives are extremely progressive and patriotic. God bless and keep well!

    Free speech and shyte talk are very different animals. Your motives are to talk shyte.

    God bless.


  • Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Leonidas BL




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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭punchdrunk



    Almost our entire defence budget for the year


  • Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Leonidas BL


    punchdrunk wrote: »
    Almost our entire defence budget for the year

    Unreal isn't it!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Interesting post Leo. Thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Savage93


    Interesting post Leo. Thanks

    that was quick!!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,893 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    NZs annual defence budget equates to about €2.6 billion. The 5 Herc Js deal is about €860 million.

    I don't imagine for a second that as a 'Five Eyes' nation and an active ally of NATO that this purchase isn't being subsidised or offset in some way. They're responsible for a rather large corner of world real estate, if you include their oceanic region and Antarctic presence.

    I guess if Ireland were militarily aligned then we'd have a bigger defence budget in the first place, so its apples and oranges.

    I still think we're better off strategically with an airliner conversion with modular fit-out, but wouldn't a second hand C-130 or even a used 235 tactical lifter, as well, be a complete solution...


  • Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭NewSigGuy


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    NZs annual defence budget equates to about €2.6 billion. The 5 Herc Js deal is about €860 million.I don't imagine for a second that as a 'Five Eyes' nation and an active ally of NATO that this purchase isn't being subsidised or offset in some way. They're responsible for a rather large corner of world real estate, if you include their oceanic region and Antarctic presence.
    I guess if Ireland were militarily aligned then we'd have a bigger defence budget in the first place, so its apples and oranges.
    I still think we're better off strategically with an airliner conversion with modular fit-out, but wouldn't a second hand C-130 or even a used 235 tactical lifter, as well, be a complete solution...

    C-130 and CN-235 are in completely different class's, one gets us Embryonic capability the other gives a real world capability.

    We can have an Airliner or a freighter conversion but there is currently no modern QC type aircraft available on the commercial market.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    NewSigGuy wrote: »
    C-130 and CN-235 are in completely different class's, one gets us Embryonic capability the other gives a real world capability.

    We can have an Airliner or a freighter conversion but there is currently no modern QC type aircraft available on the commercial market.

    There are companies who modify 737s/767s certified for carrying passengers or cargo. Not sure if they are certified for dual (combi) flying.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,893 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The following is a quote from a 2008 article covering the conversion of the 757-200s for the RNZAF by MAE of Singapore.


    "To meet the RNZAF requirement, MAE has reconfigured the cabin and installed a cargo door, crew access ladder as well as a military avionics suite.

    MAE president Joseph Ng says the RNZAF will be able to operate the aircraft in an all-passenger configuration with 142 economy and 18 business class seats or in an all-cargo configuration with 11 pallet positions. The interior picture here shows the business class seats.

    Ng says the 757 can also now be operated in a variety of mixed configurations, including a 138 seat and 2 pallet combination. The aircraft is also now equipped to handle aeromedical evacuations."


  • Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭NewSigGuy


    donvito99 wrote: »
    There are companies who modify 737s/767s certified for carrying passengers or cargo. Not sure if they are certified for dual (combi) flying.

    Any chance you can let us know the companys, the NZ 757's are old machines now and are due for replacement.

    A similar version of the 737NG os A321 would be ideal, but as it is they do not currently exist and AFAIK there is little or no desire in the commercial market for such an aircraft.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    NewSigGuy wrote: »
    Any chance you can let us know the companys, the NZ 757's are old machines now and are due for replacement.

    A similar version of the 737NG os A321 would be ideal, but as it is they do not currently exist and AFAIK there is little or no desire in the commercial market for such an aircraft.

    PEMCO is a US firm and IAI is an Israeli firm:

    https://cargofacts.com/allposts/equipment/aircraft/pemco-shows-off-new-737-flexcombi/

    https://www.flightglobal.com/iai-details-767-tanker-conversion-plans/116670.article


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,588 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Some of the 767s out there being retired already being snapped up for conversion.

    Sooner our Govt makes a call on this the better IMO.

    https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/dhl-orders-freighter-conversion-of-767s/138935.article


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,527 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    banie01 wrote: »

    Sooner our Govt makes a call on this the better IMO.


    When has our or any government made a hasty decision that helps anybody but themselves?

    What will happen is someone will think this is a good idea. Then it will go to various meetings and then by the time the global aircraft sales have recovered THEN they will order something and pay top dollar for it! :eek::eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,893 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    We have no earthly need for a 767-300ER, converted or otherwise.

    I'm becoming more convinced that a simple approach should be made to Aer Lingus, or even thrown open for expressions of interest to other EU based carriers and lessors, to wet lease a medium size twinjet with partial conversion for freight hard points, to be painted in a 'Republic of Ireland' scheme. A320/321, 737-800, 757, could be based at Cork or Shannon where hangar capacity exists.

    Something like 8 VIP seats, 120 standard economy and the rest of the cabin in tether points would be more than sufficient.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,588 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    We have no earthly need for a 767-300ER, converted or otherwise.

    I'm becoming more convinced that a simple approach should be made to Aer Lingus, or even thrown open for expressions of interest to other EU based carriers and lessors, to wet lease a medium size twinjet with partial conversion for freight hard points, to be painted in a 'Republic of Ireland' scheme. A320/321, 737-800, 757, could be based at Cork or Shannon where hangar capacity exists.

    Something like 8 VIP seats, 120 standard economy and the rest of the cabin in tether points would be more than sufficient.

    I'd hazars a guess(repeat one actually) that we will end up with a late series 737 converted for Combi work and that will perfectly meet our needs.

    My post was more intended to illustrate that if we (Ireland) want to add this capability we need to be moving on securing the airframe soon as most of the Airframes worth converting are already being looked at by freigh operators.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    We have no earthly need for a 767-300ER, converted or otherwise.

    I'm becoming more convinced that a simple approach should be made to Aer Lingus, or even thrown open for expressions of interest to other EU based carriers and lessors, to wet lease a medium size twinjet with partial conversion for freight hard points, to be painted in a 'Republic of Ireland' scheme. A320/321, 737-800, 757, could be based at Cork or Shannon where hangar capacity exists.

    Something like 8 VIP seats, 120 standard economy and the rest of the cabin in tether points would be more than sufficient.

    There's unlikely to be a great deal of a difference in the overall cost between a 767 and 737. A 767 would seem to be more useful to us than a 737 in terms of range and payload. Is 120 seats sufficient/efficient when it comes to rotating Inf Groups in and out of Beirut? That's something the aircraft is certain to do 4 times a year at least.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,893 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I'd suggest that scheduled troop rotations for full battalions would still be done by charters by open procurement, such are the numbers and gear. A government plane could carry out unscheduled retrieval in circumstances like those we have seen lately, but I would see its routine passenger carrying roles as being more around VIP and government delegation travel, diplomatic requirements, citizen support overseas, air ambulance, cultural and international relations work, humanitarian transport etc

    And there is a significant cost difference between acquisition and maintenace of a 76 and a 73 of any age.

    PS I see the German Govt have taken delivery of the first of 2 ACJ 350-900s, the absolute backstards, but of more relevance they also repurposed a couple of ex-Lufthansa A321s last year, to do exactly the sort of work we need...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,527 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    We can only hope that with Ireland becoming members of the UN security council a transport aircraft for secure travel is procured.

    Then again we will have the usual Boyd-Barrett whingers saying how much that money could cure homelessness!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,660 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    if ever there was a need for proper transport aircraft in the air corps, the photos they posted of a casa doing runs to beruit with pallets stuffed in against the surveillance equipment proved it . Such a waste of an aircraft needed on home shores. If we had a proper transport aircraft this would not happen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,895 ✭✭✭sparky42


    roadmaster wrote: »
    if ever there was a need for proper transport aircraft in the air corps, the photos they posted of a casa doing runs to beruit with pallets stuffed in against the surveillance equipment proved it . Such a waste of an aircraft needed on home shores. If we had a proper transport aircraft this would not happen.


    Indeed, however Don Lavery is tweeting today that the DOD has told him that no such aircraft is to be purchased.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Leonidas BL


    sparky42 wrote: »
    Indeed, however Don Lavery is tweeting today that the DOD has told him that no such aircraft is to be purchased.

    Thats very sad.

    I think the best thing now might be to re-purpose the 235's as light transports when the 295's arrive. With the surveillance equipment removed as roadmaster pointed out, it might work better.


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