Cars to avoid

joe40 · 02-06-2021 10:37am #1

Hi folks I'm currently in the market for a car change this year (possibly next year)

I currently have a 2012 volvo v60, D3. The car is in good condition with a good strong engine. No mechanical issues the reason for changing is just age of the car

Mileage is low for it's age - 141,000 KM.

I have found SUV type cars just too expensive overall so I'm on the lookout for a family car in estate form. (I have got to enjoy the estate especially for transporting pet dog)

I just wonder are there any particular brands that I should avoid due to reliability issues. I appreciate to a large extent it can be just down to luck but are there any particular red flags.

I won't be buying new but hopefully budget will stretch to 3 - 4 year old car. I would consider 2017 model with low miles.

Thanks for any help/advice

secman · 02-06-2021 10:43am

I too have a volvo s60 D3, that 5 cylinder engine is probably the best engine ever produced by Volvo. Mine is 2011 with 225,000km on it. Could get a 2017 car that wouldn't be as reliable or as comfy. Worth more to me to hold on to it, reg plates don't bother me once car is comfy, reliable and it has a bit of poke, economy too. Just an alternative viewpoint

ba_barabus · 02-06-2021 10:44am

You're casting the net very wide without giving an indication of what you're looking for.

Petrol/Diesel/Hybrid/Electric?

Any particular brand or model?

Any must have features?

Any cars specifically you don't want?

Budget?

Littlehorny · 02-06-2021 10:47am

Opel, that's all the advice I have for you

Worst cars on the road imo.

JustAThought · 02-06-2021 10:51am

I know three totally different people who had to entirely replace the engine of their ford focus. One was an uncle, one a friend and one a colleague in work - where it caused HAVOC. All relatively new but out of warrantee. I had the use of one for a few weeks and loved it but as I drove it back to the dealership the ‘total engine failure’ light flashed on - I nearly needed CPR. Beautiful spacious family car with huge booth - but wouldn’t touch one.

I’ve had a hatchback Nissan Almrea for far too long. Great size booth, great mpg, always reliable, spacious. Maybe not flash but a workhorse that goes fast, fits in normal parking spaces & can fit a lot of junk in the booth & still accommodate the full 5 family. Hopefully that win’t jinx it!

What did people do in the 80’s when they had 7 & 10 children - go by bus????

colm_mcm · 02-06-2021 10:53am

Ones I’d avoid due to mechanical doubts

Mazda 2.0 or 2.2 diesel
Kia/Hyundai 1.7 diesel
Ford/PSA/Volvo/Mazda 1.6 diesel

joe40 · 02-06-2021 10:53am

secman wrote: »

I too have a volvo s60 D3, that 5 cylinder engine is probably the best engine ever produced by Volvo. Mine is 2011 with 225,000km on it. Could get a 2017 car that wouldn't be as reliable or as comfy. Worth more to me to hold on to it, reg plates don't bother me once car is comfy, reliable and it has a bit of poke, economy too. Just an alternative viewpoint

That is a very valid viewpoint, and one I might end up sharing depending on how test drives go.
I drove a 182 tiguan and 182 peugeot 3008 just to see if I was missing something in relation to SUV but in both cases I would prefer my Volvo.

I intend to look at Mondeos, passat, superb etc for over the next while to see if any can impress.

Budget would be around low 20,000 s

corsav6 · 02-06-2021 10:54am

Littlehorny wrote: »

Opel, that's all the advice I have for you Worst cars on the road imo.

I've had Opel/Vauxhall all my life and I can tell you there's a lot worse cars on the road.

Atlantic Dawn · 02-06-2021 10:54am

Good general guide here...
https://www.whatcar.com/news/2020-what-car-reliability-survey/n20042

You have to also factor in a super reliable car that has had 1 oil change in 4 years is unlikely to be as reliable as those which followed the correct service interval.

neris · 02-06-2021 10:55am

Audi Q7, nothing but a heartache and cash drain

joe40 · 02-06-2021 11:00am

ba_barabus wrote: »

You're casting the net very wide without giving an indication of what you're looking for.

Petrol/Diesel/Hybrid/Electric?

Any particular brand or model?

Any must have features?

Any cars specifically you don't want?

Budget?

My net is quite wide but you're right i missed a few specifics.
Looking for diesel estate but not underpowered. I would have concerns about low engine size superb for example but would be willing to give them a try.

No particular brand. High cost of repairs are putting me off premium brands such as Audi, BMW, Merc but maybe that is a misconception on my part.

My main question was to do with cars that have potential reliability issues.

My current car is pushing on in terms of age but at the same time I don't want to take a backwards step in terms of performance and functionality to get a newer car.

By the way I'm not a speed merchant or reckless driver by any stretch but overtaking on country roads does need a bit of power at times.

rco2000 · 02-06-2021 8:06pm

Littlehorny wrote: »

Opel, that's all the advice I have for you Worst cars on the road imo.

From personal experience, you couldn’t be more wrong. Put up 340k km on a then new 141 2.0 insignia without any problems.

Service car and change oil regularly

Rrrrrr2 · 02-06-2021 8:26pm

Littlehorny wrote: »

Opel, that's all the advice I have for you Worst cars on the road imo.

I loved my insignia- 150k km from new in three years. One of the best cars I owned, looked well in nice SRI spec too. Never missed a beat. The boot lock was replaced under warranty. Engine was 160bhp too so it could move. Always felt very planted and safe on the road. There’s a lot worse out there in my experience. Was a great car really

Rrrrrr2 · 02-06-2021 8:28pm

rco2000 wrote: »

From personal experience, you couldn’t be more wrong. Put up 340k km on a then new 141 2.0 insignia without any problems.

Service car and change oil regularly

So many of the insignias I see have big mileage put up in them-they can’t be all bad.

Dr_Colossus · 02-06-2021 8:38pm

joe40 wrote: »

Looking for diesel estate but not underpowered.

My current car is pushing on in terms of age but at the same time I don't want to take a backwards step in terms of performance and functionality to get a newer car.

I've a 2007 Volvo S60 petrol with 270k KM, great car and is very reliable over 6 years of ownership.
Was half thinking of changing mainly due to insurance being a pain but in my case I want to stick with petrol and there's very slim pickings of anything decent 2nd hand. The Merc C350e estate caught my eye, 2.0 petrol PHEV with good pep. Saloon a bit small with compromised boot space with the inclusion of a battery so estate a good looking option. Gets good reviews and appears to be reliable. If you've done so little mileage on your existing diesel the hybrid could be an option but they also come in diesel.

appledrop · 02-06-2021 8:52pm

Littlehorny wrote: »

Opel, that's all the advice I have for you Worst cars on the road imo.

I 100% agree with this, their head gassets are a heap of junk.

joe40 · 02-06-2021 8:54pm

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

I've a 2007 Volvo S60 petrol with 270k KM, great car and is very reliable over 6 years of ownership.
Was half thinking of changing mainly due to insurance being a pain but in my case I want to stick with petrol and there's very slim pickings of anything decent 2nd hand. The Merc C350e estate caught my eye, 2.0 petrol PHEV with good pep. Saloon a bit small with compromised boot space with the inclusion of a battery so estate a good looking option. Gets good reviews and appears to be reliable. If you've done so little mileage on your existing diesel the hybrid could be an option but they also come in diesel.

Thanks for that. Interesting ideas.
My mileage would be about 27,000 km per year. My current car has low mileage because I bought it at 5 years old with only 50,000 km on the clock.

I hadn't really considered hybrid. I would not do much urban driving, mostly rural roads.

I actually had a 2019 2.0 litre Mondeo for a test drive today and I was quite impressed. The hatchback boot lid would meet my requirements.
Any views on Mondeos anyone. Would there be any well established issues?

The 2019 is a bit over budget but a 2018/2017 model at the right price might be ok.

02-06-2021 9:10pm

joe40 wrote: »

My net is quite wide but you're right i missed a few specifics.
Looking for diesel estate but not underpowered. I would have concerns about low engine size superb for example but would be willing to give them a try.

No particular brand. High cost of repairs are putting me off premium brands such as Audi, BMW, Merc but maybe that is a misconception on my part.

My main question was to do with cars that have potential reliability issues.

My current car is pushing on in terms of age but at the same time I don't want to take a backwards step in terms of performance and functionality to get a newer car.

By the way I'm not a speed merchant or reckless driver by any stretch but overtaking on country roads does need a bit of power at times.

Dunno what the diesel Superbs are like, but I have a 1.5 TSi petrol and it's not short of poke.

I owned an Audi A6 (petrol) in the mid-2000s. I didn't have too many repairs, but holy crap the cost of repairs and spares was pretty bad.

02-06-2021 9:12pm

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

I loved my insignia- 150k km from new in three years. One of the best cars I owned, looked well in nice SRI spec too. Never missed a beat. The boot lock was replaced under warranty. Engine was 160bhp too so it could move. Always felt very planted and safe on the road. There’s a lot worse out there in my experience. Was a great car really

Never owned an Insignia, but two of my neighbours do and rate them very highly.

Feria40 · 02-06-2021 9:20pm

Some love here for insignia's which is the opposite of what I expected.

Seem to be plenty on the market, many with mega miles.

What models in particular do people recommend? I am on the lookout for something with good fuel economy but with some extras if possible like leather seats and Android connect..

Sorry if I am hijacking the thread!

Marhay70 · 02-06-2021 9:34pm

JustAThought wrote: »

I know three totally different people who had to entirely replace the engine of their ford focus. One was an uncle, one a friend and one a colleague in work - where it caused HAVOC. All relatively new but out of warrantee. I had the use of one for a few weeks and loved it but as I drove it back to the dealership the ‘total engine failure’ light flashed on - I nearly needed CPR. Beautiful spacious family car with huge booth - but wouldn’t touch one.

I’ve had a hatchback Nissan Almrea for far too long. Great size booth, great mpg, always reliable, spacious. Maybe not flash but a workhorse that goes fast, fits in normal parking spaces & can fit a lot of junk in the booth & still accommodate the full 5 family. Hopefully that win’t jinx it!

What did people do in the 80’s when they had 7 & 10 children - go by bus????

I can do better, I have a friend who replaced the engine in his diesel Focus three times, luckily the second and third times were in warranty. This car was regularly serviced by a Ford Main dealer and the engines were replaced by the same dealer. Makes you wonder which was worse, the car or the people working on it.

SCOOP 64 · 02-06-2021 9:42pm

i thought the insignia's had engine problems with oil seal problems causing oil starvation to engine without warning or was this early models?

Andrewf20 · 02-06-2021 9:43pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Good general guide here...
https://www.whatcar.com/news/2020-what-car-reliability-survey/n20042

You have to also factor in a super reliable car that has had 1 oil change in 4 years is unlikely to be as reliable as those which followed the correct service interval.

Strange to see Mazda 6 and BMW 5 series doing very well despite the n47 timing chain issues and the Mazda 2.2 diesel nightmares that people seem to be having.

Car99 · 02-06-2021 9:46pm

rco2000 wrote: »

From personal experience, you couldn’t be more wrong. Put up 340k km on a then new 141 2.0 insignia without any problems.

Service car and change oil regularly

Goes to show cars that are driven given less problems especially modern diesels than low mileage diesel town cars

Tzardine · 02-06-2021 9:51pm

I have never owned or driven an Insignia so I can't speak on how their are to drive or own. Clearly those that own them are rating them highly.

But I swear that the majority of cars I see broken down at the side of the road are an Insignia. Even my wife, who has no interest in cars, mentioned it to me out of the blue one day, having seen one broken down on the motorway. She said she sees loads of them too.

SCOOP 64 · 02-06-2021 9:56pm

The insignia always seem cheap to buy second hand.

SCOOP 64 · 02-06-2021 9:59pm

As for Opels i have a 98 Astra 230 000miles, Opel Zafira 08 130,000 miles, nothing mayor repair wish , but both were regularly serviced

Tippman24 · 02-06-2021 10:02pm

Ford announced recently that production of Mondeo is ceasing this year.

dockysher · 02-06-2021 10:52pm

Jaguars. Specifically x-types

chicorytip · 03-06-2021 12:02am

Feria40 wrote: »

Some love here for insignia's which is the opposite of what I expected.

Seem to be plenty on the market, many with mega miles.

What models in particular do people recommend? I am on the lookout for something with good fuel economy but with some extras if possible like leather seats and Android connect..

Sorry if I am hijacking the thread!

The post 2014 version with the 1.6 litre (136 bhp) diesel engine is rated much better than the older 2.0 litre model which had reported engine and gearbox issues. The interior design and layout is much better in the newer iteration.

chicorytip · 03-06-2021 12:12am

joe40 wrote: »

Hi folks I'm currently in the market for a car change this year (possibly next year)

I currently have a 2012 volvo v60, D3. The car is in good condition with a good strong engine. No mechanical issues the reason for changing is just age of the car

Mileage is low for it's age - 141,000 KM.

I have found SUV type cars just too expensive overall so I'm on the lookout for a family car in estate form. (I have got to enjoy the estate especially for transporting pet dog)

I just wonder are there any particular brands that I should avoid due to reliability issues. I appreciate to a large extent it can be just down to luck but are there any particular red flags.

I won't be buying new but hopefully budget will stretch to 3 - 4 year old car. I would consider 2017 model with low miles.

Thanks for any help/advice

Estate cars are so uncommon now. Most of the major manufacturers no longer make them apart from Ford. The Mondeo would be the right choice for you given your requirements. They are expensive though. You should expect to pay at least 16000€ for a 2017 model

passatman86 · 03-06-2021 12:18am

JustAThought wrote: »

I know three totally different people who had to entirely replace the engine of their ford focus. One was an uncle, one a friend and one a colleague in work - where it caused HAVOC. All relatively new but out of warrantee. I had the use of one for a few weeks and loved it but as I drove it back to the dealership the ‘total engine failure’ light flashed on - I nearly needed CPR. Beautiful spacious family car with huge booth - but wouldn’t touch one.

I’ve had a hatchback Nissan Almrea for far too long. Great size booth, great mpg, always reliable, spacious. Maybe not flash but a workhorse that goes fast, fits in normal parking spaces & can fit a lot of junk in the booth & still accommodate the full 5 family. Hopefully that win’t jinx it!

What did people do in the 80’s when they had 7 & 10 children - go by bus????

Had an almera hatchback petrol years ago myself and i would agree with everything except being FAST..
i would need half a mile of clear road before attempting to overtake anything lol

Ash.J.Williams · 03-06-2021 12:24am

Littlehorny wrote: »

Opel, that's all the advice I have for you Worst cars on the road imo.

I can’t kill my insignia it’s a beast

brian_gall85 · 03-06-2021 8:41am

chicorytip wrote: »

Estate cars are so uncommon now. Most of the major manufacturers no longer make them apart from Ford. The Mondeo would be the right choice for you given your requirements. They are expensive though. You should expect to pay at least 16000€ for a 2017 model

They're uncommon but new sales were actually increasing year on year I believe since the second half of the last decade.

Just checked the stats for 2020 to 2021. I know sales are well up after Covid but as an example saloon car sales are up 1.63% year on year while estate sales are up 61.4%.

spyderski · 03-06-2021 9:02am

chicorytip wrote: »

Estate cars are so uncommon now. Most of the major manufacturers no longer make them apart from Ford. The Mondeo would be the right choice for you given your requirements. They are expensive though. You should expect to pay at least 16000€ for a 2017 model

Most major manufacturers? Are you serious?

Off the top of my head:
Audi
BMW
Volvo
Volkswagen
Mercedes
Ford
Porsche
Seat
MINI
Skoda
Peugeot

…all make estates. So basically the polar opposite of your statement.

biko · 03-06-2021 9:22am

Don't get a VW bug 1973, terribly drafty.

Ash.J.Williams · 03-06-2021 9:43am

spyderski wrote: »

Most major manufacturers? Are you serious?

Off the top of my head:
Audi
BMW
Volvo
Volkswagen
Mercedes
Ford
Porsche
Seat
MINI
Skoda
Peugeot

…all make estates. So basically the polar opposite of your statement.

similar waffle and blank statements across boards these days , worse than ever

Green farmer · 03-06-2021 11:24am

colm_mcm wrote: »

Ones I’d avoid due to mechanical doubts

Ford/PSA/Volvo/Mazda 1.6 diesel

Any reports of how the newer 1.5 PSA diesal engine is performing that replaced the old 1.6 dieseal ? Would it be more reliable, like the renault 1.5 diesal engines ?

SouthWesterly · 03-06-2021 11:29am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Dunno what the diesel Superbs are like, but I have a 1.5 TSi petrol and it's not short of poke.

I owned an Audi A6 (petrol) in the mid-2000s. I didn't have too many repairs, but holy crap the cost of repairs and spares was pretty bad.

Have a 1.6 diesel superb. Can't fault it

Outkast_IRE · 03-06-2021 11:38am

An uncle of mine worked in the service department for a dealer that had Opel & Honda but sourced all makes for Leases they managed.

The Opels had a huge amount of issues compared to the Hondas, lots of gearbox , clutch and engine issues.
They leased a tonne of Hyundai and they generally ran fine, but had odd issues which are probably down to supplier quality, stuff like roof rails rusts on a 2 year old car etc.

The Hondas were rarely back for anything except a service.

03-06-2021 11:41am

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

An uncle of mine worked in the service department for a dealer that had Opel & Honda but sourced all makes for Leases they managed.

The Opels had a huge amount of issues compared to the Hondas, lots of gearbox , clutch and engine issues.
They leased a tonne of Hyundai and they generally ran fine, but had odd issues which are probably down to supplier quality, stuff like roof rails rusts on a 2 year old car etc.

The Hondas were rarely back for anything except a service.

Had a 2015 i40. Cracking car massive spec on a comfort plus model really comfortable but the paint was garbage. So thin and so prone to rust.

03-06-2021 11:44am

joe40 wrote: »

............

I intend to look at Mondeos...........

I believe the auto can be a disaster.

Ash.J.Williams · 03-06-2021 11:48am

How’s the Mazda 2.2 diesel going these days ? (From 2015-now)

joe40 · 03-06-2021 12:12pm

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Have a 1.6 diesel superb. Can't fault it

How do you find it for power. I don't mean boyracer stuff, just for overtaking, hills etc. I haven't had a proper drive of one yet but will definitely consider them.

The 2.o litre is a good bit more expensive based on the examples I've seen.

Cyclepath · 03-06-2021 12:34pm

Avoid anything with BMW's 2.0 diesel engine from 2009-2016, so basically BMW/Mini.

These engines are notorious for timing chain and crankshaft sprocket issues and BMW have had class action lawsuits in some countries

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2020/bmw-timing-chain-lawsuit-settlement-reached.shtml#:~:text=December%2012%2C%202020%20%E2%80%94%20A%20BMW,and%20secondary%20timing%20chain%20assemblies.

ambro25 · 03-06-2021 12:51pm

dockysher wrote: »

Jaguars. Specifically x-types

Do you mean the Mondeos-in-gladrags of old, or newer XE / XF / XJ?

Appreciate the sentiment of the thread, but unless you luck out on a lemon (they do exist, and I’ve had Fiat, Volvo & Subaru ones over the years), most if not all modern cars hardly give a day’s trouble if they’re maintained well and driven sensibly, until very large/late mileages.

We’re still running my Mrs’ Merc C220 CDI (late W203, ‘07) at 200kkms, bought 9 years ago at 50kkms. Never had to do anything other than std servicing (at manufacturer interval) and tyres until 180kkms (large-ish €2k spent on driving train, with new shocks, etc.)

Still going and driving perfectly well, but with how strict the local NCT is, and tyre fitter comments when we recently refitted summer tyres, she might finally not make it through this year, too much rust.

03-06-2021 12:58pm

ambro25 wrote: »

.........

We’re still running my Mrs’ Merc C220 CDI (late W203, ‘07) at 200kkms, ..........

To be fair that's small mileage.......... in the UK and Europe loads of folk rack up several hundred k kms without issue or major expense.

ambro25 · 03-06-2021 1:10pm

Augeo wrote: »

To be fair that's small mileage.......... in the UK and Europe loads of folk rack up several hundred k kms without issue or major expense.

It certainly is, for a 14 year-old car.

But it puts paid to the myth that diesels don’t lack short runs (even if only anecdotally). That car has done little else, beside the odd 1000-miler trip once or twice a year pre-Brexit.

I wouldn’t be going back to diesel if we were to change it, that said.

Can’t help the OP much, as we never did “estate” after the Volvo lemon (V50 2.0d ‘06, 2nd owner at 60kmiles in ‘09, brilliant car in all respects, except for the container-load of gremlins...must have been a late-shift Friday car).

03-06-2021 1:15pm

ambro25 wrote: »

...........

But it puts paid to the myth that diesels don’t lack short runs (even if only anecdotally). That car has done little else, beside the odd 1000-miler trip once or twice a year pre-Brexit.......................

That's generally wrt DPFs, which your car doesn't have

ambro25 · 03-06-2021 2:08pm

Augeo wrote: »

That's generally wrt DPFs, which your car doesn't have

Correct, and it was one of my top criteria when shortlisting and buying it

chicorytip · 03-06-2021 4:58pm

spyderski wrote: »

Most major manufacturers? Are you serious?

Off the top of my head:
Audi
BMW
Volvo
Volkswagen
Mercedes
Ford
Porsche
Seat
MINI
Skoda
Peugeot

…all make estates. So basically the polar opposite of your statement.

Your definition of an estate car seems to differ from my own. I would not include the likes of a Mini Countryman, Peugeot 5008 or Seat Arona in that category. A Skoda Fabia can be had in estate form but used models are as rare as hens teeth. Ditto the Octavia. Given the requirements listed by the OP the Mondeo would suit her ideally by virtue alone of it's enormous boot space. They are not cheap to purchase.

Cars to avoid

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