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President condemns brutal old IRA execution of elderly woman

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    #62
    Scoundrel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭Scoundrel


    guy2231 wrote: »
    Do you think the same thing about Jean Mcconville? Shot dead by the provisional IRA in 1971 for the exact same reason?

    People have this romantic fanciful view of the Old IRA because all their bad deeds have been swept under the carpet and no one ever hears about them.

    The old IRA only managed to kill 250 British soldiers, the Provisional IRA managed to kill more than that amount just in the north of Ireland from 72-74, the old IRA were not these marvel superheroes that could do no wrong like FF\FG would have you believe.

    Absolutely the IRA was as justified in shooting Lindsay in the 20s as they were shooting Mcconville in the 70s both were informers despite the nonsense made up story of Jean comforting a british soldier as being the reason that never happened ultimately both knew the penalty for what they had done.

    Danny Morrison wrote a short book the good old ira which makes the point very well about their being no moral difference between tough actions carried out by so called old IRA and PIRA the myth of a saintly old IRA is a free state invention used to demonize IRA after 1921. The IRA of 1919-1921 disappeared far more than PIRA.


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    #63
    Shebean
    Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    Hangdogroad wrote: »
    FF and FG didnt exist in 1921. How do they have the blood of this woman on their hands?

    They idolise the terrorist Michael Collins for one.


    I don't see the need for an apology. Informing often leads to the deaths of others. Awful things happen in conflict.


    If they can look to celebrate, (that's what the proposed event was regardless of the label) the IRC and the black and tans but condemn the IRA up north, I wouldn't hold your breath on any equal condemnation.


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    #64
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    The idea that informers would have been treated with kid gloves in a war situation is infantile delusion.

    It seems that for some the point of the centenary is lacerating how dreadful everything associated with Irish nationalism is.

    You don't see the Brits engaging in self-flagellation over the bombing of Dresden.


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    #65
    indioblack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,936 ✭✭✭indioblack


    monseiur wrote: »
    - hence the phrase 'the empire on which the sun never sets'
    A phrase previously used to describe the Spanish Empire.


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    #66
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,219 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    It was a war. An unfortunately dirty and callous war - forced upon us because the Brits refused to accept our Democratic will for independence. She contributed to the ultimate execution of 6 IRA volunteers after choosing to aid local British forces. As a consequence she made herself a target.

    I would think it’s uncontroversial to suggest that in a war zone deciding to provide intelligence to one side or another leaves you open to suffering consequences up to an including death.

    Anyway, the uniformity of the reaction in this thread informs you of what most people think.


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    #67
    guy2231
    Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    Hhh


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    #68
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    droidman123 wrote: »
    And no other army in the world shot informers

    I wonder are the French Resistance made to answer for every collaborator or informer or spy they shot, somehow I doubt it


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    #69
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    guy2231 wrote: »
    In an all Ireland campaign the old IRA only managed to kill 250 British soldiers during the war of independence over 3 years, the provos killed even more than that in a 6 county campaign during 72-74.

    This is the kind of romantic fanciful nonsense I'm talking about "we had the Brits on their knees" what a load of rubbish.

    they also killed over 400 police, who were pretty much the same as soldiers at the time. Anyway, wars are not won and lost on bodycounts, ultimately their victory was in making British rule impossible and gaining the support of the people, simply killing X number of enemy soldiers doesn't mean you win


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    #70
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Her national duty? The people had voted, independence had been declared, she was not fulfilling her national duty. Her colonial/imperial duty maybe. Shooting anyone is wrong, but a lot of the responsibility for that lies on the British for putting everyone in that situation

    She was a British loyalist. Just because some Irish people had voted and declared Independence, didn't mean that all Irish people agreed and were willing to give up their own connections to the British Empire.

    My fathers family is from the west of Ireland, and members of my family fought with the IRA.. however my mothers family is of English background, from near Carlow, and many of her family members fought on the British side of things.

    The people had voted? hardly. The declaration of Independence wasn't some kind of referendum like nowadays, where everyone got to influence the outcome. Nobody asked my grandfathers whether they wanted independence. They were forced to decide which side to fight on, after the fact.

    There is too much romantic nonsense when it comes to the War of Independence and the IRA. It wasn't as clean as many here want to pretend, nor was it universally welcomed.

    Mrs Lindsay held true to her beliefs. I wouldn't consider her to be a traitor, since she was never a Republican, nor ever seemed to professed a desire for Independence.

    "Educated and well-to-do through her marriage, she was a member of the Presbyterian Church. Her observance of the principles of the Union with Great Britain gave her rigid loyalist views and contempt for the men of the IRA"


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    #71
    guy2231
    Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    She was a British loyalist. Just because some Irish people had voted and declared Independence, didn't mean that all Irish people agreed and were willing to give up their own connections to the British Empire.

    My fathers family is from the west of Ireland, and members of my family fought with the IRA.. however my mothers family is of English background, from near Carlow, and many of her family members fought on the British side of things.

    The people had voted? hardly. The declaration of Independence wasn't some kind of referendum like nowadays, where everyone got to influence the outcome. Nobody asked my grandfathers whether they wanted independence. They were forced to decide which side to fight on, after the fact.

    There is too much romantic nonsense when it comes to the War of Independence and the IRA. It wasn't as clean as many here want to pretend, nor was it universally welcomed.

    Mrs Lindsay held true to her beliefs. I wouldn't consider her to be a traitor, since she was never a Republican, nor ever seemed to professed a desire for Independence.

    "Educated and well-to-do through her marriage, she was a member of the Presbyterian Church. Her observance of the principles of the Union with Great Britain gave her rigid loyalist views and contempt for the men of the IRA"

    Not to mention all the innocents the IRA brutally murdered which would have also been a reason to report crime on them.


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    #72
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,897 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    That's enough Shinner baiting for this thread.


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    #73
    Montage of Feck
    Registered Users Posts: 3,544 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    guy2231 wrote: »
    I don't expect you to feel guilty I expect you to feel shame.

    Why should I? The only shame should be from the subsequent conservative CnaG (FG) and FF governments who betrayed the revolutionary ideals those men fought and died for.

    🙈🙉🙊



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    #74
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    I think the biggest failure of Martin as Taoiseach is that people still think Varadkar is in charge.


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    #75
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Thread needs more Wolfe Tones




    I get all my historical references from them.


    It was either this or the rubberbandits


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    #76
    guy2231
    Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Thread needs more Wolfe Tones




    I get all my historical references from them.


    It was either this or the rubberbandits

    Terrorist sympathisers, they also suppoted the provisonal IRA but at least they are not hypocrites like most people condemning one and not the other because most people do not even realise the old IRA was behind countless sectarian murders and murders of innocents.

    Despite what most people think the old IRA were not these marvel superheroes who could do no wrong the upper and middle classes for the most part hated them just like they hated the provisonal IRA.


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    #77
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    guy2231 wrote: »
    Terrorist sympathisers, they also suppoted the provisonal IRA but at least they are not hypocrites like most people condemning one and not the other because most people do not even realise the old IRA was behind countless sectarian murders and murders of innocents.

    Marty Whelan! He's in the 'Ra!
    Colin Farrell! He's in the 'Ra!
    George Lucas! He's in the 'Ra!
    Tony Cascarino! He's in the 'Ra!
    Mick Jagger! He's in the 'Ra!
    Robert De Niro! He's in the 'Ra!
    Quentin Tarantino! He's in the 'Ra!
    Terry Phelan! He's in the 'Ra!
    Dr. Dre! He's in the 'Ra!
    Your man in the Da Vinci Code! He's in the 'Ra!
    Winona Ryder! He's in the 'Ra!
    Kofi Annan! He's in the 'Ra!
    Michelle Pfeiffer! He's in the 'Ra!


    Allegedly





    (Before anyone gets offended. The lyrics of that song are a satire of armchair republicanism)


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    #78
    guy2231
    Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Marty Whelan! He's in the 'Ra!
    Colin Farrell! He's in the 'Ra!
    George Lucas! He's in the 'Ra!
    Tony Cascarino! He's in the 'Ra!
    Mick Jagger! He's in the 'Ra!
    Robert De Niro! He's in the 'Ra!
    Quentin Tarantino! He's in the 'Ra!
    Terry Phelan! He's in the 'Ra!
    Dr. Dre! He's in the 'Ra!
    Your man in the Da Vinci Code! He's in the 'Ra!
    Winona Ryder! He's in the 'Ra!
    Kofi Annan! He's in the 'Ra!
    Michelle Pfeiffer! He's in the 'Ra!


    Allegedly





    (Before anyone gets offended. The lyrics of that song are a satire of armchair republicanism)

    Very offensive to all the innocent victims of both the old and provisional IRA.


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    #79
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,169 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    guy2231 wrote: »
    Very offensive to all the innocent victims of both the old and provisional IRA.

    You won't enjoy this at all so



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    #80
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    guy2231 wrote: »
    Very offensive to all the innocent victims of both the old and provisional IRA.




    I put the footnote in at the bottom as I anticipated some might not get the reference.



    Poster above posted the video/song. It is actually a satire of armchair Republicans who don't have a clue about the history they talk about....................which is kinda what you were going on about.


    Unreliable narrator.


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    #81
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MadYaker wrote: »
    You won't enjoy this at all so


    Jesus H Christ, that's brutal.
    What is it, comedy? Satire?


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    #82
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,597 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    guy2231 wrote: »
    Terrorist sympathisers, they also suppoted the provisonal IRA but at least they are not hypocrites like most people condemning one and not the other because most people do not even realise the old IRA was behind countless sectarian murders and murders of innocents.

    Despite what most people think the old IRA were not these marvel superheroes who could do no wrong the upper and middle classes for the most part hated them just like they hated the provisonal IRA.

    It's hard not to read your posts in Ian Paisley voice.

    Fully expecting a 'NEVER! NEVER! NEVER!' at any moment.


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    #83
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,381 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    She was an informer passing on information to those who supported the British occupation of Ireland, she got what she deserved.


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    #84
    micosoft
    Registered Users Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭micosoft


    guy2231 wrote: »
    Do I really have to answer this?

    Yes


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    #85
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,849 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Can anyone explain to me the motivation behind southern unionists. Even before internet forums I knew the odd few.

    Are they just trying to be confrontational and edgy or is it something to do with the upsetting of the old class system that they are still bitter about ?


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    #86
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,381 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    guy2231 wrote: »
    Not to mention all the innocents the IRA brutally murdered which would have also been a reason to report crime on them.

    What about the innocents watching a match who the Tans shot dead in Croke Park in 1920?


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    #87
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,381 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    I always had a feeling Higgins was a little west Brit, guess this proves it.


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    #88
    guy2231
    Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    She was an informer passing on information to those who supported the British occupation of Ireland, she got what she deserved.

    Just like Jean Mcconville got what she deserved for passing on information to the "occupying forces" according to the illegal territorial claim to the 6 counties by our state at the time?

    Or do the vast majority of people actually agree with this behaviour and only bring up these atrocities to try and hurt Sinn Fein?

    How do you justify the killing of innocent people?


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    #89
    guy2231
    Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    What about the innocents watching a match who the Tans shot dead in Croke Park in 1920?

    Whataboutery again, anytime anyone brings up IRA atrocities there is always whataboutery.


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    #90
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,381 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    guy2231 wrote: »
    Just like Jean Mcconville got what she deserved for passing on information to the "occupying forces" according to the illegal territorial claim to the 6 counties by the our state at the time?

    Or do the vast majority of people actually agree with this behaviour and only bring up these atrocities to try and hurt Sinn Fein?

    How do you justify the killing of innocent people?

    I don't know for sure if J McConville was an informer or not but this one was so yeah I have no propblem justifying it.

    So now maybe you can answer my question you seem to have missed a few post up and give us your opinion on the Tans shooting innocent people dead in Croke Park.


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    #91
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,381 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    guy2231 wrote: »
    Whataboutery again, anytime anyone brings up IRA atrocities there is always whataboutery.

    Ah ok so when the British commit cold blooded murder its whataboutery.


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