Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

President condemns brutal old IRA execution of elderly woman

Options
2456789

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    Normal One
    Registered Users Posts: 357 ✭✭Normal One


    Snitches get stitches


  • Options
    #33
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Surely the OP is on the wind up. Nobody can be that clueless about the War of Independence.......can they?

    You'd never know , sure didn't fine Gael wanna have a commeneration for the occupying British forces two years ago


  • Options
    #34
    Jimbob1977
    Registered Users Posts: 2,239 ✭✭✭Jimbob1977


    This wasn't the Provisional IRA of The Troubles.

    This was the Old IRA..... of which many of our grandfathers were proud members.

    The founders of the State were Old IRA.

    Dreadful things happen in every war - perpetrated by both sides. Harsh sentences, cruel executions.

    In some people's eyes, the lady was a traitor. In other people's eyes, she was performing her civic duty.


  • Options
    #35
    guy2231
    Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    Munsterlad102 wrote: »
    It does matter which one, and you clearly haven't a clue what you're talking about. Tell me, if you're so concerned about deaths in a war 100 years ago, then why aren't you condemning the actions of Unionists? Or even better, why aren't you condemning Maggie Thatcher for arming Unionist death squads during the Troubles? It's almost as if you have a bias against Irish Nationalists.
    You still refuse to answer me, what do you expect the men to have done when they found out about collaboraters giving away their positions etc? Do us all a favour, shut up about things you know nothing about and go back to whatever Unionist board you came from.

    Do you think the same thing about Jean Mcconville? Shot dead by the provisional IRA in 1971 for the exact same reason?

    People have this romantic fanciful view of the Old IRA because all their bad deeds have been swept under the carpet and no one ever hears about them.

    The old IRA only managed to kill 250 British soldiers, the Provisional IRA managed to kill more than that amount just in the north of Ireland from 72-74, the old IRA were not these marvel superheroes that could do no wrong like FF\FG would have you believe.


  • Options
    #36
    Munsterlad102
    Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    guy2231 wrote: »
    Do you think the same thing about Jean Mcconville? Shot dead by the provisional IRA in 1971 for the exact same reason?

    People have this romantic fanciful view of the Old IRA because all their bad deeds have been swept under the carpet and no one ever hears about them.

    The old IRA only managed to kill 250 British soldiers, the Provisional IRA managed to kill more than that amount just in the north of Ireland from 72-74, the old IRA were not these marvel superheroes that could do no wrong like FF\FG would have you believe.

    Are you going to answer me or not? What do you expect them to have done? How about we take an example from your precious British army, they could have pitch capped them. Or how about from the RUC, where they gave Michael Stone free reign to kill during the Miltown Cemetery attack. It's almost as if you're being very selective in who you condemn.

    Why do FF and FG have to apologize for the actions of an army 100 years ago and the actions of an army that didn't have any connections to them? How about you stop being a hypocrite and apologize here and now for the actions of all things British.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,328 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Tchaikovsky wrote: »
    He might be thinking of, perhaps, in the next few weeks, maybe making a decision on whether to condemn it.

    He has a sub committee looking into it I hear


  • Options
    #38
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I don't care whether you believe me or not.

    I do believe you.


  • Options
    #39
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    Better luck next time OP, might have gone done better on boards.co.uk.


  • Options
    #40
    0lddog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭0lddog


    endacl wrote: »
    Míchael's a bit bland. ...


    You have a gift for understatement :P


  • Options
    #41
    Baggly
    Registered Users Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Op send me a PM substantiating this story and lets have a chat about it. In the meantime, its closed.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    Baggly
    Registered Users Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Thread reopened. Please discuss this topic in good faith and civilly or cards and/or bans will follow.


  • Options
    #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Surely the OP is on the wind up. Nobody can be that clueless about the War of Independence.......can they?

    Any time there are findings on British army and loyalist murders in the north the site has a few people trying to make comparisons like this. Clueless no, but transparent, yes very much so.


  • Options
    #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Some facts:

    Mary Lindsay and her chauffeur were convicted by the IRA as being spies/traitors. Their activities had led to the arrest of a number of IRA volunteers.

    6 IRA men were under arrest and sentenced to death. The IRA said that if these prisoners were executed, they would in turn execute the two prisoners they held. The British subsequently executed these men, and the IRA followed through on their threat.

    There is no doubt that she was an informer, the British paid tribute to her as such, and her actions led to not only her own and her chauffeurs deaths, but that of the IRA men who were captured because of what she did.
    Lt. Col. F.H. Dorling, DSO, Officer Commanding 1 Battalion, Manchester Regiment, explaining how fast she delivered the information to the Crown forces:

    ‘Her only object in doing so was to prevent Crown Forces from running into the ambush: “I came at once in the hope of saving some poor fellows’ lives …” The courage required was of a very high order and Mrs Lindsay knew the risk she ran … Mrs Lindsay showed devotion to duty of a very high standard and we have every reason therefore to pay respect to the memory of a very devoted and self-sacrificing lady more especially as she gave information which undoubtedly saved some of our own regiment and the local police force from running into this very ambush.’

    That said, the burying of them in unmarked graves was not nice. Nor, of course, was the practice of the British in disposing and destroying of the remains of Irish heroes with quicklime.


  • Options
    #45
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    " ...when civilians are seen approaching shout: 'Hands up!' Should the order be not obeyed, shoot, and shoot with effect. If the persons approaching carry their hands in their pockets or are in any way suspicious looking, shoot them down. You may make mistakes occasionally and innocent persons may be shot, but that cannot be helped and you are bound to get the right persons sometimes. The more you shoot the better I will like you; and I assure you that no policeman will get into trouble for shooting any man and I will guarantee that your names will not be given at the inquest."

    Lieutenant-Colonel Gerald Bryce Ferguson Smyth.

    Thank God for the Old IRA.


  • Options
    #46
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,790 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Has Poots signed up an account today. A continuation of his media blitz today stoking up fires.

    Arggghh so angers


  • Options
    #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    guy2231 wrote: »
    Do you think the same thing about Jean Mcconville? Shot dead by the provisional IRA in 1971 for the exact same reason?

    People have this romantic fanciful view of the Old IRA because all their bad deeds have been swept under the carpet and no one ever hears about them.

    The old IRA only managed to kill 250 British soldiers, the Provisional IRA managed to kill more than that amount just in the north of Ireland from 72-74, the old IRA were not these marvel superheroes that could do no wrong like FF\FG would have you believe.
    For the sake of discussion, let us take it as granted that the PIRA and old IRA are equivalent, and acted with the same legitimacy. Even if you draw an equivalence between the PIRA and the old IRA the comparison of the situation with Lindsay and McConville does not work, because the facts are totally different.

    Firstly, the claim that Jean McConville was an informer is vigorously disputed by her family (Her son was in jail at the time as he was a member of the IRA) and also by the British. There is no such dispute or doubt when it comes to Mary Lindsay.

    Secondly, the actions of Mary Lindsay led to the capture of 5 IRA men who, along with a sixth, were sentenced to death by the British. In retaliation, and to try and prevent the executions, the IRA captured Lindsay and her driver and threatened to execute her if the men, who were captured because of her actions, were executed. She was held a number of weeks and was executed after the British executed the 6 IRA men. The circumstances surrounding Jean McConville are totally different. She was not captured and held as a sort of hostage to try and save the lives of the men who she had caused to be captured. As I said, it is much disputed that she was an informer at all, and even those who make that claim do not say that her actions led to the capture or deaths of anyone.

    The only equivalence between these two unfortunate women and their situation is their use as a tool by anti-Irish, colonial-cringe infected, forlock-tugging soup-taking Irishmen or by unionists and loyalists (don't agree with their position but at least it is somewhat respectable considering their background. As disagreeable as it is, at least it is not cringe-worthy like the west-Bs are), who could not give a damn about these women. They just want to bash the Irish, and by extension Irish nationalism, republicanism, and sure if you can get at Mary-Lou McDonald as well somehow, that's a job well done.


  • Options
    #48
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,903 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Exceptional cruelty.

    War is cruel, there I was thinking it was a bit of a laugh.


  • Options
    #49
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,302 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    guy2231 wrote: »
    Do you think the same thing about Jean Mcconville? Shot dead by the provisional IRA in 1971 for the exact same reason?

    People have this romantic fanciful view of the Old IRA because all their bad deeds have been swept under the carpet and no one ever hears about them.

    The old IRA only managed to kill 250 British soldiers, the Provisional IRA managed to kill more than that amount just in the north of Ireland from 72-74, the old IRA were not these marvel superheroes that could do no wrong like FF\FG would have you believe.

    Cultural context is important in considering historical events and comparing them to more recent events.

    Brian Boru raped and pillaged, yet he is held in even higher esteem by some.


  • Options
    #50
    monseiur
    Registered Users Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭monseiur


    Once upon a time there was an evil empire whose ill gotten territories were so vast that at least one part was always in daylight - hence the phrase 'the empire on which the sun never sets'
    Ireland was a small part of this empire.
    It took the bravery, courage and self sacrifice of unselfish men and women over centuries to bring this evil empire to it's knees. So many gave their life for freedom, something so many people, sadly, take for granted today.
    Of course this evil empire could not exist without local collaborators, spy networks etc. etc. and they, like the empire they so blindly served came to a bad end.
    Unfortunately there is, to this day, a small but vocal group who decry the loss of this empire and who regard those who ensured it's demise as terrorists.
    To the OP I say 'There's none so blind as those who do no wish to see'


  • Options
    #51
    guy2231
    Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    monseiur wrote: »
    Once upon a time there was an evil empire whose ill gotten territories were so vast that at least one part was always in daylight - hence the phrase 'the empire on which the sun never sets'
    Ireland was a small part of this empire.
    It took the bravery, courage and self sacrifice of unselfish men and women over centuries to bring this evil empire to it's knees. So many gave their life for freedom, something so many people, sadly, take for granted today.
    Of course this evil empire could not exist without local collaborators, spy networks etc. etc. and they, like the empire they so blindly served came to a bad end.
    Unfortunately there is, to this day, a small but vocal group who decry the loss of this empire and who regard those who ensured it's demise as terrorists.
    To the OP I say 'There's none so blind as those who do no wish to see'

    So you are justifying the murders of elderly women for reporting crime?

    This justifies the murders of innocent protestants, children and elderly women by the IRA?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    guy2231 wrote: »
    She was not an informer, she was an elderly woman doing her national duty of reporting crime to the police.

    Her national duty? The people had voted, independence had been declared, she was not fulfilling her national duty. Her colonial/imperial duty maybe. Shooting anyone is wrong, but a lot of the responsibility for that lies on the British for putting everyone in that situation


  • Options
    #53
    guy2231
    Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Her national duty? The people had voted, independence had been declared, she was not fulfilling her national duty. Her colonial/imperial duty maybe. Shooting anyone is wrong, but a lot of the responsibility for that lies on the British for putting everyone in that situation

    Absolute rubbish hypocrisy on here, the same things people are saying to defend the old IRA are the exact same things that could be used to defend the provisonal IRA, the only difference is that atrocious murders and sectarian massacres by the old IRA aren't shoved down our throats and are brushed under the carpet with romantic fanciful nonsense.


  • Options
    #54
    donspeekinglesh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,863 ✭✭✭donspeekinglesh


    60 years old is elderly now? ****, old age is a lot closer than i thought...


  • Options
    #55
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,614 ✭✭✭Feisar


    monseiur wrote: »
    Once upon a time there was an evil empire whose ill gotten territories were so vast that at least one part was always in daylight - hence the phrase 'the empire on which the sun never sets'
    Ireland was a small part of this empire.
    It took the bravery, courage and self sacrifice of unselfish men and women over centuries to bring this evil empire to it's knees. So many gave their life for freedom, something so many people, sadly, take for granted today.
    Of course this evil empire could not exist without local collaborators, spy networks etc. etc. and they, like the empire they so blindly served came to a bad end.
    Unfortunately there is, to this day, a small but vocal group who decry the loss of this empire and who regard those who ensured it's demise as terrorists.
    To the OP I say 'There's none so blind as those who do no wish to see'

    Can we wind back with the "on it's knees" narrative. What amounts to a few successful ambushes/skirmishes does not amount to "on it's knees".

    Edit - I agree with everything else you are saying though.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Options
    #56
    Scoundrel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭Scoundrel


    She informed and caused the deaths of volunteers she got what she deserved.


  • Options
    #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    guy2231 wrote: »
    Their only crime was reporting to the police of criminal activity being commited in their area.

    The British executed some of those captured criminals she had informed on, leading to their capture.

    She herself was taken hostage so those captured would not be executed.

    Brits shot them, leaving the IRA no choice.
    The Brits are as culpable for her death as the IRA.


  • Options
    #58
    guy2231
    Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    Feisar wrote: »
    Can we wind back with the "on it's knees" narrative. What amounts to a few successful ambushes/skirmishes does not amount to "on it's knees".

    Edit - I agree with everything else you are saying though.

    In an all Ireland campaign the old IRA only managed to kill 250 British soldiers during the war of independence over 3 years, the provos killed even more than that in a 6 county campaign during 72-74.

    This is the kind of romantic fanciful nonsense I'm talking about "we had the Brits on their knees" what a load of rubbish.


  • Options
    #59
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Does anyone know what the drivers situation was?

    Its fairly well established that the woman Mary Lindsey was complicit in the deaths of 6 IRA personnel.

    A loyal British man would call that complicity an act of heroism while many on the other political side would call it enemy action in war time and treason to the Irish state.

    I don't want to get into that debate. I'm curious about the driver. Did the driver inform on IRA actions or was he an innocent bystander.


  • Options
    #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    guy2231 wrote: »
    In an all Ireland campaign the old IRA only managed to kill 250 British soldiers during the war of independence over 3 years, the provos killed even more than that in a 6 county campaign during 72-74.

    This is the kind of romantic fanciful nonsense I'm talking about "we had the Brits on their knees" what a load of rubbish.

    Have another look at the British crown forces' casualties there chief


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Does anyone know what the drivers situation was?

    Its fairly well established that the woman Mary Lindsey was complicit in the deaths of 6 IRA personnel.

    A loyal British man would call that complicity an act of heroism while many on the other political side would call it enemy action in war time and treason to the Irish state.

    I don't want to get into that debate. I'm curious about the driver. Did the driver inform on IRA actions or was he an innocent bystander.

    They were both taken hostage to prevent the execution of captured IRA.

    He was arguably innocent in the whole thing.


Advertisement