What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

drunkmonkey · 28-05-2021 09:26AM

Flying Fox wrote: »

You don't just decide not to give someone a second dose because they might have had covid. There are plenty of frontline workers who haven't had it. You can't base vaccine policy on assumptions.

No you need evidence and we don't have the tests in Ireland available yet so you can only assume he doesn't have it that's not to say he didn't though.
Most of our policy is built on assumptions.

drunkmonkey · 28-05-2021 09:31AM

fly_agaric wrote: »

Interesting link, but none of that changes anything (as regards you not knowing whether a person got Covid or not).
I haven't listened to the podcast you mention so don't know if you are distorting it or not.
Just don't think it is right to effectively make medical suggestions to people about whether they should get a 2nd dose of vaccine or not, and to be frank I'd take anything you post on any subject (let alone something so serious) with a mine of salt.

What did I distort, are you saying he didn't say it? Nice to get an auld dig there just to prove your an expert eh, can't debate on the topic so you get personal, childish behavior tbf.
I'm not advising anyone to do anything just mentioning what the latest thinking is, it's up to everyone to do their own due diligence with any information they read or hear.

28-05-2021 09:33AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

He was suggesting going from some study that a previous infection and one dose gives better protection than two doses and an infection.
Risk vs reward is wholly dependent on age and sex when it comes to AZ especially in women, we've had two high profile deaths in the UK in the last week or so both making headline news in the manistream media.

30 million plus doses of Astra in the UK
Pandemic kills 152,000 plus in the UK
You're having a laugh

drunkmonkey · 28-05-2021 09:41AM

Marine Layer wrote: »

30 million plus doses of Astra in the UK
Pandemic kills 152,000 plus in the UK
You're having a laugh

You don't understand the numbers, how many healthy young women with no underlying conditions did it kill in the UK out of the 152,000? What's the odds of a 39yr healthy woman dying from it, do you even know?

fly_agaric · 28-05-2021 09:45AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What did I distort, are you saying he didn't say it?

I said I do not know if you distorted it or not because I have not listened to it yet (I probably will later as am curious).
I don't trust you based on your posting history/past experience.

drunkmonkey wrote:

Nice to get an auld dig there just to prove your an expert eh, can't debate on the topic so you get personal, childish behavior tbf.

drunkmonkey wrote:

I'm not advising anyone to do anything just mentioning what the latest thinking is, it's up to everyone to do their own due diligence with any information they read or hear.

I don't want a debate on it.
I'm not trying to prove anything and do not claim "expertise" about vaccinations + whether particular people should take 2nd dose of vaccine or not and cetainly don't offer my own advice/suggestions on it.
People should look first to general recommendations of HSE/experts running our vaccination programme for that, and if worried or have special circumstances, ask their doctor.

Yeah I admit it is a bit childish but you do deserve the odd dig, again based on material you have posted in past + it rubbed me up the wrong way somewhat seeing you in particular offer out some free medical advice about vaccines.
If you are taking that back now that's progress so maybe it wasn't a total waste of time even if it was childish!

drunkmonkey · 28-05-2021 09:57AM

fly_agaric wrote: »

I said I do not know if you distorted it or not because I have not listened to it yet (I probably will later as am curious).
I don't trust you based on your posting history/past experience.

So you didn't listen to it but suggested I distorted it anyway, grow up and think before you post.

robinph · 28-05-2021 10:06AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You don't understand the numbers, how many healthy young women with no underlying conditions did it kill in the UK out of the 152,000? What's the odds of a 39yr healthy woman dying from it, do you even know?

200 deaths of people under 40 just during January 2021 in the UK, and another 500 between 40 and 50 for the same month.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-reported-sars-cov-2-deaths-in-england/covid-19-confirmed-deaths-in-england-report

That against 40 deaths across all age groups potentially from the vaccine.

28-05-2021 10:44AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You don't understand the numbers, how many healthy young women with no underlying conditions did it kill in the UK out of the 152,000? What's the odds of a 39yr healthy woman dying from it, do you even know?

You advised a front line worker not to take a 2nd shot in a country way behind the UK with vaccinations but that will have caught up in a few months
We will be doing this next year again
I follow the science,you can follow your anti vax agenda to your hearts content
It will get you nowhere

drunkmonkey · 28-05-2021 10:46AM

robinph wrote: »

200 deaths of people under 40 just during January 2021 in the UK, and another 500 between 40 and 50 for the same month.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-reported-sars-cov-2-deaths-in-england/covid-19-confirmed-deaths-in-england-report

That against 40 deaths across all age groups potentially from the vaccine.

It's topline data I can't see where it says if they had underlying conditions, were taking about 2 healthy female celebrities, there seems to be increased concerns about this particular vaccine in females of a certain age, not convinced burying the news in stats is the correct strategy. It's headline news in the UK they wouldn't be running those stories without concern.

Our health care workers are up for their second dose next week and the alarm bells are ringing https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0528/1224368-coronavirus-ireland/

drunkmonkey · 28-05-2021 10:54AM

Marine Layer wrote: »

You advised a front line worker not to take a 2nd shot in a country way behind the UK with vaccinations but that will have caught up in a few months
We will be doing this next year again
I follow the science,you can follow your anti vax agenda to your hearts content
It will get you nowhere

No I said we don't know if they were infected and it turns out it was a fireman not a nurse, you've had your Pfizer vax that's fantastic but your posting has been completely misleading, you thought a vaccine with 90% efficiency means you still have a 10% chance of getting it, you have very little understanding of the "science" from my observations of your posts.

Now we're discussing the risk of deaths in females of a certain age from AZ and rather than come up with some research you've decided to go with the ahh they must be anti vaxx, there's concerns even if you can't see them.

28-05-2021 10:58AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Our health care workers are up for their second dose next week and the alarm bells are ringing https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0528/1224368-coronavirus-ireland/

They've a bigger risk if on the pill AND a bigger risk giving birth of blood clots
Thats right,you put your Mammy at bigger risk by being born than if she took Astrazenica
Just goes to show how trivial this is and how common sense prevails

https://www.healthline.com/health/birth-control/pulmonary-embolism-birth-control

The bigger issue with Astra is not getting that 2nd dose fast enough

drunkmonkey · 28-05-2021 11:01AM

Oh Lord!

fly_agaric · 28-05-2021 11:08AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

So you didn't listen to it but suggested I distorted it anyway, grow up and think before you post.

Coming from you...! Physician heal thyself.
Probably not best metaphor to be throwing out there though given what started all this.

.

Wolf359f · 28-05-2021 11:12AM

Marine Layer wrote: »

They've a bigger risk if on the pill AND a bigger risk giving birth of blood clots
Thats right,you put your Mammy at bigger risk by being born than if she took Astrazenica
Just goes to show how trivial this is and how common sense prevails

https://www.healthline.com/health/birth-control/pulmonary-embolism-birth-control

The bigger issue with Astra is not getting that 2nd dose fast enough

Completely different and much more serious and fatal clot. This nonsence of comparing to regular clots has got to stop.

drunkmonkey · 28-05-2021 11:26AM

fly_agaric wrote: »

Coming from you...! Physician heal thyself.
Probably not best metaphor to be throwing out there though given what started all this. .

Have you anything to add besides trolling.

28-05-2021 11:49AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Completely different and much more serious and fatal clot. This nonsence of comparing to regular clots has got to stop.

Methinks low grade anti vax postings needs to be tackled too
Theres a much higher death rate from giving birth or from being on the pill for women than a 2nd dose of Astrazenica and no one is going on about it because both are just one of those things that 99 point zillion nines percent of us wont have to worry about

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-05-2021 12:17PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

No you need evidence and we don't have the tests in Ireland available yet so you can only assume he doesn't have it that's not to say he didn't though.
Most of our policy is built on assumptions.

You assume you don't have heart disease, or do you get a weekly test for it?

drunkmonkey · 28-05-2021 12:24PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

Methinks low grade anti vax postings needs to be tackled too

Do something about it, Make sure to tell them about the antivaxx agenda being run in the UK and Global media about AZ and that Lisa Shaw and Stephanie Dubois would have died in childbirth or from taking the pill anyway.
Independent press standard organisation: https://www.ipso.co.uk/complain/

We're not taking about Viz here this is coming from the BBC, Times, Sky News, The Telegraph, Financial Times etc.

Let's see what happens with the HCW all coming up to their second jab of mainly AZ, you should tell Phil Ni Sheaghdha what you told us that should keep her members happy.

You do realize your in the AZ thread and there's no such talk about the Vaccine you had, If anything I'd expect you to be promoting Pfizer not AZ.

drunkmonkey · 28-05-2021 12:28PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You assume you don't have heart disease, or do you get a weekly test for it?

You assume your always correct or do you get a weekly test for it?
You were completely wrong yesterday, now it's back to the off topic switcheroo trick.

28-05-2021 12:30PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Do something about it, Make sure to tell them about the antivaxx agenda being run in the UK and Global media about AZ and that Lisa Shaw and Stephanie Dubois would have died in childbirth or from taking the pill anyway.
Independent press standard organisation: https://www.ipso.co.uk/complain/

We're not taking about Viz here this is coming from the BBC, Times, Sky News, The Telegraph, Financial Times etc.

Let's see what happens with the HCW all coming up to their second jab of mainly AZ, you should tell Phil Ni Sheaghdha what you told us that should keep her members happy.

You do realize your in the AZ thread and there's no such talk about the Vaccine you had, If anything I'd expect you to be promoting Pfizer not AZ.

You are bigging up a tiny spec of dust to anti vax post
Earrlier in the vaccination campaign,it was your hope that younger people wouldn't be eager you were bigging
Most people see through this and ignore it thankfully

fly_agaric · 28-05-2021 12:35PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Have you anything to add besides trolling.

I did listen to it (Newstalk podcast you linked) now.
I don't think he (Luke O'Neill) said people should just act themselves now in the way you were and avoid a second dose. He said evidence was growing it is not needed (if you alread had Covid-19) & the guidelines may be changed as a result with the goal of saving quantity of vaccine used (the vaccines are still in very short supply globally). He said the EMA were "examining it".

You'd want to be quite certain that you actually had Covid.
At the moment that would mean having been swab tested positive for it yourself at some point over last year/14 months wouldn't it?

Not some suspicion you might have had it because many people in your job get it due to exposure, or some of your contacts got it, or you felt ill with some Covid-like symptoms in the last year.

If you never had Covid, you would be damaging the protection from the vaccine by not taking both the doses, which would be quite dangerous/risky wouldn't it?
If you take both doses and you actually did have Covid already + didn't know all that has happened is more vaccine than you needed to be protected was used on you (if what Luke O'Neill was citing is bourne out).

Baggly · 28-05-2021 12:35PM

Mod

Drunkmonkey, dont post in this thread again.

robinph · 28-05-2021 01:06PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Do something about it, Make sure to tell them about the antivaxx agenda being run in the UK and Global media about AZ and that Lisa Shaw and Stephanie Dubois would have died in childbirth or from taking the pill anyway.
Independent press standard organisation: https://www.ipso.co.uk/complain/

We're not taking about Viz here this is coming from the BBC, Times, Sky News, The Telegraph, Financial Times etc.

Let's see what happens with the HCW all coming up to their second jab of mainly AZ, you should tell Phil Ni Sheaghdha what you told us that should keep her members happy.

You do realize your in the AZ thread and there's no such talk about the Vaccine you had, If anything I'd expect you to be promoting Pfizer not AZ.

A celebrity death getting more news coverage than a non celebrity death isn't news. That's how the celebrity system works, but doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know.

There are now over 10 million people in the UK who have had both Astra Zeneca jabs, and plenty of people from all age ranges and professions in that group.

deeperlearning · 28-05-2021 01:30PM

robinph wrote: »

200 deaths of people under 40 just during January 2021 in the UK, and another 500 between 40 and 50 for the same month.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-reported-sars-cov-2-deaths-in-england/covid-19-confirmed-deaths-in-england-report

That against 40 deaths across all age groups potentially from the vaccine.

The risk of covid is much smaller in healthy young people.

The vast majority of young people who died with covid in the UK had underlying conditions. Many of these had very serious conditions and were in hospital when they were unfortunate enough to catch covid. Many died with covid rather than from covid.

However, the AstraZeneca vaccine causes blood clots in perfectly healthy young people and this risk outweights the risk of covid in a perfectly healthy young person.

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-05-2021 01:35PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Do something about it, Make sure to tell them about the antivaxx agenda being run in the UK and Global media about AZ and that Lisa Shaw and Stephanie Dubois would have died in childbirth or from taking the pill anyway.
Independent press standard organisation: https://www.ipso.co.uk/complain/

We're not taking about Viz here this is coming from the BBC, Times, Sky News, The Telegraph, Financial Times etc.

Let's see what happens with the HCW all coming up to their second jab of mainly AZ, you should tell Phil Ni Sheaghdha what you told us that should keep her members happy.

You do realize your in the AZ thread and there's no such talk about the Vaccine you had, If anything I'd expect you to be promoting Pfizer not AZ.

You mean the main stream media? The MSM that you have often told us couldnt/shouldn't be believed? That main stream media?? :rolleyes:

Edit: posted before I seen mod note.

brendanwalsh · 28-05-2021 04:53PM

Very annoying seeing people continually compare a DVT or a PE clot from the pill to a cerebral sinus thrombosis in the brain.

They are completely different.

Dyr · 28-05-2021 05:11PM

fly_agaric wrote: »

Ha, speak of one of the devils!
Yes, we'll just have to wait and see.
As per tweet Brickster posted you can always say it was a kangaroo court (not like a Real British One??) if the EU somehow ended up winning.

That is unknowable (by you) + also don't think it is great to be dishing out unsolicited medical advice on vaccination here.

I think you're having difficutly being civil, all seems very personal to you, bit odd.

EU would have a better chance in a British court actually.

28-05-2021 05:47PM

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Very annoying seeing people continually compare a DVT or a PE clot from the pill to a cerebral sinus thrombosis in the brain.

They are completely different.

Death however is generally the same
Your heart stops,your body will be buried,cremated or donated to medical science
Its an outcome prospect no huge fuss should be made of in any extremely rare circumstance it happens,like driving your car it can or your plane crashes

deeperlearning · 28-05-2021 07:00PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

Methinks low grade anti vax postings needs to be tackled too
Theres a much higher death rate from giving birth or from being on the pill for women than a 2nd dose of Astrazenica and no one is going on about it because both are just one of those things that 99 point zillion nines percent of us wont have to worry about

You simply don't know that.

Too few second doses have been administered to younger women to state this with any certainty.

29-05-2021 12:59PM

Fom Today's Irish Independent
Fewer than 5 cases here and no deaths

THE risk of a rare blood clot after receiving a dose of AstraZeneca vaccine remains one in 100,000, but the fatality rate has fallen since last month, the European drugs watchdog said yesterday.

Officials said 17 million people received a dose by mid-April, and that figure has now risen to 19 million.

As of yesterday, the watchdog had recorded 316 cases of blood clots with low platelets - including fewer than five in Ireland - among people who received the jab in EU countries.

While there is no change in the frequency of the unusual blood clots, the fatality rate has fallen as patients and doctors have become more alert to potential symptoms, taskforce chair Marco Cavaleri told the European Medicines Agency (EMA) press conference.

Fewer than five cases have been reported here and no deaths.

So far, 2.1 million doses of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine have been administered in Europe and only one possible case of rare blood clot has been reported, the EMA said.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

Comments