Vaccine Megathread No 2 - Read OP before posting

Teothican · 23-05-2021 7:19pm

so i am 40 and i am wondering will i get just the 1 dose or will i be brought back 12 weeks later for a second one?

km79 · 23-05-2021 7:19pm

Teothican wrote: »

so i am 40 and i am wondering will i get just the 1 dose or will i be brought back 12 weeks later for a second one?

Depends on what vaccine you get !

salmocab · 23-05-2021 7:21pm

Teothican wrote: »

so i am 40 and i am wondering will i get just the 1 dose or will i be brought back 12 weeks later for a second one?

Almost certainly 2 doses 4 weeks apart

angeldelight · 23-05-2021 7:21pm

Teothican wrote: »

so i am 40 and i am wondering will i get just the 1 dose or will i be brought back 12 weeks later for a second one?

It’s looking likely that you’ll be offered Pfizer or Moderna with the second dose 4 weeks later

Micky 32 · 23-05-2021 8:02pm

hmmm wrote: »

This sounds like incredibly good news - is it?

I really hope so, i’m losing faith by the day that vaccines will bring us out of this awful horrible situation

hmmm · 23-05-2021 8:14pm

Micky 32 wrote: »

I really hope so, i’m losing faith by the day that vaccines will bring us out of this awful horrible situation

There isn't a single variant the vaccines can't cope with, we're in a great place. The only concern appears to be that we let our guard down before enough people are vaccinated, and there is a big surge in infection in unvaccinated groups.

Goldengirl · 23-05-2021 8:19pm

Micky 32 wrote: »

I really hope so, i’m losing faith by the day that vaccines will bring us out of this awful horrible situation

It is good news , M
Just saying on the other thread about the effect of T Cells being ignored in these studies.
Even with some with just one dose so far healthcare workers infections have gone through the floor so T Cell immunity must be playing a part there .

Sleeper12 · 23-05-2021 8:38pm

hmmm wrote:

There isn't a single variant the vaccines can't cope with, we're in a great place. The only concern appears to be that we let our guard down before enough people are vaccinated, and there is a big surge in infection in unvaccinated groups.

Id love to see stats for J&J. I wonder will a 2nd dose be required for the India strain

Goldengirl · 23-05-2021 8:45pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Id love to see stats for J&J. I wonder will a 2nd dose be required for the India strain

Or a Pfizer booster ?

23-05-2021 8:49pm

I think t cells are very important for short/long term immunity.

Antibodies are merely a by product of t-cell immunity.

I'd imagine one dose of any vaccine will avoid majority of serious illnesses for average Joe & Mary.

The reason this virus is dangerous to our species is that its novel.

Vaccination means its no longer novel to your body.

Once your vaccinated and a month has passed the chance of you going to hospital is probably miniscule unless your very vulnerable (vulnerable people die of the flu each year).

I dont't always agree with Philip Nolan, but he kind of said the above with comparing vaccines this week.

All vaccines do what we want them to do, avoid serious illness. I agree with him.

All currently approved vaccines will likely stop you going to hospital (one dose or two).

All offer good individual protection in the first instance.

Variants and transmission is a work in progress for all available vaccines.

You also wonder at the quality of this data re: indian variant in UK first dose/second dose debate.

Someone could have been infected two weeks after first pfzier or astra.

Your obviously going to be more protected after two doses of a vaccine than up to say a few weeks after first vaccine.

Your immunity is more mature.

Are they excluding people infected who were only vaxxed a few weeks with their first dose in the data?

Israel data said these lads (people post first vax 0 to 3 weeks) were twice as likely to be infected because they naturally let their guard down ever so slightly.

Everyone knows these guys have next to no immunity.

hmmm · 23-05-2021 8:49pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Id love to see stats for J&J. I wonder will a 2nd dose be required for the India strain

The recent findings out of the UK suggest that the Indian strain isn't as bad as the South African variant for vaccine effectiveness, and the J&J vaccine showed good results in the South African arm of the trial. So that's hopeful.

ShineOn7 · 23-05-2021 8:52pm

Are there any real differences between the mRNA vaccines Pfizer and Moderna?

I've had a read on the HSE website and can't see any major ones

All info from here https://www2.hse.ie/screening-and-vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/

Efficiency:

Pfizer - 95%
Moderna - 94%

Side effects:

Both appear to be practically the same too with negligible side effects. Although for both the HSE website mentions "More than 1 in 10,000 people may develop Bell’s palsy"

BP is usually temporary as far as I know

Other:

Both have a 4 week gap for the second shot

With Pfizer you're good to go a week after this and Moderna is two weeks after

Happy days

Indian variant:

The Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna coronavirus vaccines appear to protect against COVID variants B.1.617 and B.1.618 first identified in India, researchers have reported in a new pre-print paper, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, CNN reported

https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/pfizer-moderna-vaccines-effective-against-covid-variants-from-india-study-121051800070_1.html

More good news there

Miscellaneous:

New evidence

New evidence from Israel shows the risk of severe COVID-19 was reduced by 92%, 7 days after 2 doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine.

https://www2.hse.ie/screening-and-vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/pfizer-biontech/immunity/

It's looking like almost all (if not all) 40-49 year olds in Ireland will get one of these two vaccines so I thought it'd be good to jump into the data

TLDR: On reading the information I've found, they seem to be pretty much the same Vaccine

mikeorange · 23-05-2021 9:43pm

hmmm wrote: »

This sounds like incredibly good news - is it?

Doesn't that just confirm natural infection and T Cell memory trumps everything else?

Its been 18 months now and I haven't heard of anyone dieing from Covid re-infection out of 8,000,000 people, it must be incredibly rare, our immune systems are smarter than our scientists will ever be.

Makes sense as Sars survivors from 2003 are thought to have immunity to Sars-Cov-2, 18 years later

Honestly to me what makes sense is people after getting 2 doses and full protection should expose themselves regularly to Covid in the wild and get that T Cell response.

Its a pity when we get those 500 pcr cases a day we are not checking blood markers while pcr testing them and figuring out why they are getting infected and why some have no symptoms.

We have learned very little about our immune systems these last 18 months

Challenge trials could have answered alot

Micky 32 · 23-05-2021 10:18pm

Interesting twitter thread:

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1396531230808625159?s=21

snotboogie · 23-05-2021 10:43pm

Chinese vaccines are performing terribly in terms of reducing infection. Lots of focus on the Seychelles but the UAE overtook Israel as the most vaccinated country in the world (with a population over 1 million) today and its case numbers have been increasing all week. After dropping towards 100 cases per million per day they are now surging back towards 200 cases per million, Israel have 3 cases per million. Bahrain, the third most vaccinated country in the world over 1 million population, is now over 1,300 cases per million per day. Their neighbours Qatar, with significantly less vaccinated but who are only using Pfizer are now down to 100 cases per million.

nocoverart · 23-05-2021 11:05pm

I’m 40 in Oct (how the fook did that happen LOL) does anybody know if I’ll be part of the Forties cohort because I’ll be 40 this year or will I be included with the Thirties? Cheers!

deeperlearning · 23-05-2021 11:10pm

Chile also had problems and used CoronaVac/Sinovac.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-56731801

nocoverart · 23-05-2021 11:16pm

snotboogie wrote: »

Chinese vaccines are performing terribly in terms of reducing infection. Lots of focus on the Seychelles but the UAE overtook Israel as the most vaccinated country in the world (with a population over 1 million) today and its case numbers have been increasing all week. After dropping towards 100 cases per million per day they are now surging back towards 200 cases per million, Israel have 3 cases per million. Bahrain, the third most vaccinated country in the world over 1 million population, is now over 1,300 cases per million per day. Their neighbours Qatar, with significantly less vaccinated but who are only using Pfizer are now down to 100 cases per million.

You can always rely on good auld China...

Wolf359f · 23-05-2021 11:22pm

mikeorange wrote: »

Doesn't that just confirm natural infection and T Cell memory trumps everything else?

Its been 18 months now and I haven't heard of anyone dieing from Covid re-infection out of 8,000,000 people, it must be incredibly rare, our immune systems are smarter than our scientists will ever be.

Makes sense as Sars survivors from 2003 are thought to have immunity to Sars-Cov-2, 18 years later

Honestly to me what makes sense is people after getting 2 doses and full protection should expose themselves regularly to Covid in the wild and get that T Cell response.

Its a pity when we get those 500 pcr cases a day we are not checking blood markers while pcr testing them and figuring out why they are getting infected and why some have no symptoms.

We have learned very little about our immune systems these last 18 months

Challenge trials could have answered alot

Expose yourself on purpose to Covid.... why would you want to be doing that ffs?

For 500 cases a day, you would want to be testing the bloods of those who got tested.... so over 20k a day. You don't want someone who tested positive to pop into the local hospital or GP to get bloods done. Any what markers would you be testing?

Challenge trials are an ethical nightmare, but the information obtained would be extremely useful. There was an Irish company about to start challenge trials in the UK, haven't heard anything since. Challenge trials with vaccinated people vs new strains would provide a wealth of information though, and possibly a little safer for participants.

mikeorange · 23-05-2021 11:35pm

snotboogie wrote: »

Chinese vaccines are performing terribly in terms of reducing infection. Lots of focus on the Seychelles but the UAE overtook Israel as the most vaccinated country in the world (with a population over 1 million) today and its case numbers have been increasing all week. After dropping towards 100 cases per million per day they are now surging back towards 200 cases per million, Israel have 3 cases per million. Bahrain, the third most vaccinated country in the world over 1 million population, is now over 1,300 cases per million per day. Their neighbours Qatar, with significantly less vaccinated but who are only using Pfizer are now down to 100 cases per million.

Not defending Chinese but Seychelles have also used alot of AZ, nearly as much as Sinovac.
Wouldn't go blaming it entirely on Chinese vaccine.

mikeorange · 23-05-2021 11:54pm

Wolf359f wrote: »

Expose yourself on purpose to Covid.... why would you want to be doing that ffs?

For 500 cases a day, you would want to be testing the bloods of those who got tested.... so over 20k a day. You don't want someone who tested positive to pop into the local hospital or GP to get bloods done. Any what markers would you be testing?

Challenge trials are an ethical nightmare, but the information obtained would be extremely useful. There was an Irish company about to start challenge trials in the UK, haven't heard anything since. Challenge trials with vaccinated people vs new strains would provide a wealth of information though, and possibly a little safer for participants.

Your protected from serious disease by the vaccine and being exposed to Covid guarantees a t cell immune response for long term protection to all variants. Vaccine teaches you to swim, now you have to swim. Its why I agree that masks should come off after being fully vaccinated, your body needs to be exposed to Covid. Its why I think Covid ward staff shouldn't wear PPE after full vaccination, they need robust immune systems.

Bloods, weight, height, smoker, diabetic etc all that info should be gathered when your pcr tested, like it would be if you were admitted to a hospital with a disease, we need as much data as possible

Full blood panel done same moment as pcr test, biochemistry, endocrinology, v tests, haematology

This is of course based on low cases like present, as when everyone is vaccinated we need to monitor breakthrough cases.

We won't ever have human challenge trials for covid so this would be an alternative.

Maryanne40 · 24-05-2021 12:02am

nocoverart wrote: »

I’m 40 in Oct (how the fook did that happen LOL) does anybody know if I’ll be part of the Forties cohort because I’ll be 40 this year or will I be included with the Thirties? Cheers!

I'm 59 but was able to register as a 60 year old as I was born in 1961.....so you should be able to register as 40.

You wonder how you got to 40 so fast...believe me from 40 to 60 races by even faster!!! So have your vaccine and then enjoy every minute

nocoverart · 24-05-2021 12:12am

Oh God, really? time really does fly. Thanks for the info though and yes, we all should enjoy every minute on this weird blue spaceship called Earth.

snotboogie · 24-05-2021 12:46am

mikeorange wrote: »

Not defending Chinese but Seychelles have also used alot of AZ, nearly as much as Sinovac.
Wouldn't go blaming it entirely on Chinese vaccine.

The UK have primarily used Astra Zeneka and have only 35 cases per million per day. That actually makes Sinovac look worse than if it was the only vaccine used.

Wolf359f · 24-05-2021 12:59am

snotboogie wrote: »

The UK have primarily used Astra Zeneka and have only 35 cases per million per day. That actually makes Sinovac look worse than if it was the only vaccine used.

Mikeorange believes vaccinated people should purposely expose themselves to Covid, maybe that's what Seychelles is doing?

Am I right in saying a vaccine that's 90% effective against say, symptoms, that's just based on a time frame. So over that time frame only 10% of vaccinated people developed symptoms. Over a longer time and a longer exposure, that 10% can increase?

24-05-2021 1:09am

Wolf359f wrote: »

Mikeorange believes vaccinated people should purposely expose themselves to Covid, maybe that's what Seychelles is doing?

Am I right in saying a vaccine that's 90% effective against say, symptoms, that's just based on a time frame. So over that time frame only 10% of vaccinated people developed symptoms. Over a longer time and a longer exposure, that 10% can increase?

No. It’s says over the same time period, 90% fewer cases were found in those with vaccine than without. For example 100000 people. 50000 vaccinated. 1000 unvaccinated get Covid, only 100 vaccinated.

Wolf359f · 24-05-2021 1:21am

Deleted User wrote: »

No. It’s says over the same time period, 90% fewer cases were found in those with vaccine than without. For example 100000 people. 50000 vaccinated. 1000 unvaccinated get Covid, only 100 vaccinated.

So 6 months later (assuming covid was just as prevalent) the 49900 vaccinated people, 99 would get covid? What I'm getting at is, the 99% vaccinated people after the initial trial are not strictly immune, they just (A) haven't been exposed to covid and (B) haven't been exposed to covid over and over again.

I just think a poster saying people vaccinated should willing fully expose themselves to covid is reckless. And also have vaccinated HCW's not wear a mask..... madness.

drunkmonkey · 24-05-2021 1:30am

mikeorange wrote: »

Your protected from serious disease by the vaccine and being exposed to Covid guarantees a t cell immune response for long term protection to all variants.

There's no proof to make that claim, the FDA has recently approved a t-cell test but it can't tell if you will have protection only that you had it previously and have t-cell, it can go way back further than a pcr test.
It'll be good for making new treatments, people with long Covid in the states that didn't have a positive PCR tests will be able to prove if they had it now as insurance isn't paying out without a positive test.

ClosedAccountFuzzy · 24-05-2021 3:47am

If you look at the technology behind the vaccines, it’s fairly clear that more likely ones to be successful are those using novel or modern techniques to create an expression of the spike proteins on cells to build immunity.

RNA viruses of this type have been notoriously difficult to develop vaccines for. That’s why I would suspect the initial Chinese vaccines aren’t performing well. They’re based, as far as I am aware, on similar technology to most flu vaccines - using attenuated viruses / killed virus particles.

If those had worked, then we would be using them for vaccination against similar RNA viruses as it’s straight forward technology. However, they haven’t worked in the past with this and it seems to me like the results they’re achieving are patchy.

The direct mRNA vaccines take a totally new approach and the viral vector ones like Janssen and AstraZeneca achieve a similar expression of spike proteins, just with a different methodology.

They both rely heavily on extremely advanced biotechnology that’s only recently available and the mRNA vaccines are making use of a very advanced delivery system involving engineered balls of fat molecules that act nearly like an artificially built virus to carry mRNA into cells - essentially a nanotechnology of a sort.

The viral vector vaccines achieve the same spike protein expression, but do it using a modified natural virus to carry the instructions. So you’ve an extra step involving a live, basically harmless, virus. This I suspect is probably why you’re getting some of the obscure side effects showing up with these more than with the mRNA approach.

The brief and limited expression of the spike protein on some of your cells, allows your immune system to develop an extremely focused response to the spike, which acts like a key for the virus to enter a very specific ACE2 receptor in your cells.

That’s like Achilles’ heal for the virus as it’s an extremely complicated bit of evolution that is like a key that fits into a lock. If the spike changes significantly, it’s very hard for the virus to come up with an alternative solution to access the ACE2 receptors. So it in theory should find it quite hard to get past that.

It could come up with better ways of evading the immune system, but it’s still a very awkward thing for it to achieve.

With vaccines that use broken up or attenuated viruses, your immune system is likely to just become responsive to any number of random aspects of the proteins, not just the spike.

So the virus has lots of opportunities to escape immunity and RNA viruses aren’t that stable so evolve quickly.

That’s why I would suspect the Chinese vaccines aren’t very effective.

The mRNA vaccines are just extremely impressive technology and a huge breakthrough that I think will potentially change medicine in a very positive way in a lot of areas - they may lead to vaccinations for hugely problematic viruses like HIV and also areas of cancer treatment.

The viral vector platforms also show huge potential.

I just can’t really see how a traditional vaccine approach like the Chinese one could really be successful though. It doesn’t make sense that it wouldn’t already have been useful for SARS etc if it were. The tech was tried - it’s the very first thing anyone would try as that’s how many vaccines are made.

We didn’t end up with this very new approach just for the craic. It was used because the traditional approaches haven’t every worked very well with this kind of virus.

M_Murphy57 · 24-05-2021 7:15am

nocoverart wrote: »

I’m 40 in Oct (how the fook did that happen LOL) does anybody know if I’ll be part of the Forties cohort because I’ll be 40 this year or will I be included with the Thirties? Cheers!

Similar question but vaccine is open for 45+ today.

Can people aged 44 register tomorrow or do we need to wait for a govt "announcement" inviting us to register (whenever that may be)

M_Murphy57 · 24-05-2021 7:16am

nocoverart wrote: »

I’m 40 in Oct (how the fook did that happen LOL) does anybody know if I’ll be part of the Forties cohort because I’ll be 40 this year or will I be included with the Thirties? Cheers!

Similar question but vaccine is open for 45+ today.

Can people aged 44 register tomorrow or do we need to wait for a govt "announcement" inviting us to register (whenever that may be)

Polar101 · 24-05-2021 7:31am

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

Similar question but vaccine is open for 45+ today.

Can people aged 44 register tomorrow or do we need to wait for a govt "announcement" inviting us to register (whenever that may be)

45's opened on Sunday, so it's "stuck" on 45+ now. They haven't said when it's going to move down yet.

is_that_so · 24-05-2021 7:36am

A modelling study looking to identify blood markers suggests that there is protection even with low levels of antibodies. It also mentions the possibility of such analysis being an alternative to the very time consuming Phase III trials.

The research showed that the presence of even small quantities of these potent ‘neutralizing antibodies’ indicates that a vaccine is effective at protecting against COVID-19.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01372-6

Zipppy · 24-05-2021 8:32am

OH got her J&J in Croke Park yesterday...she was only about 35 mins in total..very orderly.

Tiredness and a slightly raised temperature last night and today she's fine...
I get my second Pfizer this day week so happy days...

Lots of people being told different stories regards when after J&J you are considered fully vaccinated.
Some are told 2 weeks, some a month and my OH was told 12 days ..

mikeorange · 24-05-2021 8:55am

snotboogie wrote: »

The UK have primarily used Astra Zeneka and have only 35 cases per million per day. That actually makes Sinovac look worse than if it was the only vaccine used.

Your presuming all the infected used Sinovac in Seychelles for your comparison to UK?

When its closer to 50/50 split Sinovac/AZ used in Seychelles

1st dose of AZ is very poor against variants and Seychelles have only given most 1st dose there. Seychelles I believe has alot SA variant there.

mikeorange · 24-05-2021 8:58am

Wolf359f wrote: »

Mikeorange believes vaccinated people should purposely expose themselves to Covid, maybe that's what Seychelles is doing?

How do you think the human race has survived this long?

By exposing ourselves to viruses everyday or hiding away ay home? Once we get vaccinated we need to be exposed in everyday life, makes sense?

mikeorange · 24-05-2021 9:01am

is_that_so wrote: »

A modelling study looking to identify blood markers suggests that there is protection even with low levels of antibodies. It also mentions the possibility of such analysis being an alternative to the very time consuming Phase III trials.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01372-6

That's the key for sure, the answers are inside us.

Lumen · 24-05-2021 9:05am

mikeorange wrote: »

How do you think the human race has survived this long?

The human race has survived this long by evolving an immune system that ensure a high rate of survival until offspring are able to fend for themselves, up to about age 50-60.

We haven't evolved protection against pathogens which kill old people because that's not how evolution works.

Human evolution through survival of the fittest largely stopped with modern medicine. We are now reliant on science to advance our health and longevity. This is what we call civilisation. It is wonderful.

Russman · 24-05-2021 9:09am

mikeorange wrote: »

Once we get vaccinated we need to be exposed in everyday life, makes sense?

Why would this make sense ?

mikeorange · 24-05-2021 9:26am

Russman wrote: »

Why would this make sense ?

Because its how we always lived our lives, we didn't actively avoid flu example after vaccination.If we keep up restrictions after vaccinations its against how we always lived.

xboxdad · 24-05-2021 9:26am

Did they actually start vaccinating the 49 year olds yet?
When do we think they complete vaccinating the 45-49 age group (with 1st dose)?

mossie · 24-05-2021 9:29am

xboxdad wrote: »

Did they actually start vaccinating the 49 year olds yet?
When do we think they complete vaccinating the 45-49 age group (with 1st dose)?

2 of my colleagues, both 49, due to be vaccinated tomorrow.

Lumen · 24-05-2021 9:43am

xboxdad wrote: »

When do we think they complete vaccinating the 45-49 age group (with 1st dose)?

I reckon it'll be around the end of next week, with some regional variation.

snotboogie · 24-05-2021 9:46am

mikeorange wrote: »

Your presuming all the infected used Sinovac in Seychelles for your comparison to UK?

When its closer to 50/50 split Sinovac/AZ used in Seychelles

1st dose of AZ is very poor against variants and Seychelles have only given most 1st dose there. Seychelles I believe has alot SA variant there.

No I didn't. In fact I said the Seychelles is poor example which the media have latched to. Bahrain is a better case study because it has a far larger population and its easy to contrast with its neighbour Qatar using only Pfizer.

mikeorange · 24-05-2021 9:58am

snotboogie wrote: »

No I didn't. In fact I said the Seychelles is poor example which the media have latched to. Bahrain is a better case study because it has a far larger population and its easy to contrast with its neighbour Qatar using only Pfizer.

Fair enough but you can only compare apples to apples.Seychelles needs to be studied on its own, to figure it out, which has been overblown anyway, with very little of the vaccinated getting sick and ending up in hospital.

Huge mistake locking down again there when 80% adults have been vaccinated and they are not being hospitalised, should just let.people grt exposed and let virus run its course and get t cell protection from.exposure. We better not do the same this winter as cases inevitably rise, we cant piss ourselves and got back to lockdown like Seychelles

FrankN1 · 24-05-2021 10:07am

For those with a BMI that is over 35 that will receive the vaccine via a GP, which vaccine is most likely?

24-05-2021 10:57am

FrankN1 wrote: »

For those with a BMI that is over 35 that will receive the vaccine via a GP, which vaccine is most likely?

Pfizer

Vic987 · 24-05-2021 11:11am

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

If you look at the technology behind the vaccines, it’s fairly clear that more likely ones to be successful are those using novel or modern techniques to create an expression of the spike proteins on cells to build immunity.

RNA viruses of this type have been notoriously difficult to develop vaccines for. That’s why I would suspect the initial Chinese vaccines aren’t performing well. They’re based, as far as I am aware, on similar technology to most flu vaccines - using attenuated viruses / killed virus particles.

If those had worked, then we would be using them for vaccination against similar RNA viruses as it’s straight forward technology. However, they haven’t worked in the past with this and it seems to me like the results they’re achieving are patchy.

The direct mRNA vaccines take a totally new approach and the viral vector ones like Janssen and AstraZeneca achieve a similar expression of spike proteins, just with a different methodology.

They both rely heavily on extremely advanced biotechnology that’s only recently available and the mRNA vaccines are making use of a very advanced delivery system involving engineered balls of fat molecules that act nearly like an artificially built virus to carry mRNA into cells - essentially a nanotechnology of a sort.

The viral vector vaccines achieve the same spike protein expression, but do it using a modified natural virus to carry the instructions. So you’ve an extra step involving a live, basically harmless, virus. This I suspect is probably why you’re getting some of the obscure side effects showing up with these more than with the mRNA approach.

The brief and limited expression of the spike protein on some of your cells, allows your immune system to develop an extremely focused response to the spike, which acts like a key for the virus to enter a very specific ACE2 receptor in your cells.

That’s like Achilles’ heal for the virus as it’s an extremely complicated bit of evolution that is like a key that fits into a lock. If the spike changes significantly, it’s very hard for the virus to come up with an alternative solution to access the ACE2 receptors. So it in theory should find it quite hard to get past that.

It could come up with better ways of evading the immune system, but it’s still a very awkward thing for it to achieve.

With vaccines that use broken up or attenuated viruses, your immune system is likely to just become responsive to any number of random aspects of the proteins, not just the spike.

So the virus has lots of opportunities to escape immunity and RNA viruses aren’t that stable so evolve quickly.

That’s why I would suspect the Chinese vaccines aren’t very effective.

The mRNA vaccines are just extremely impressive technology and a huge breakthrough that I think will potentially change medicine in a very positive way in a lot of areas - they may lead to vaccinations for hugely problematic viruses like HIV and also areas of cancer treatment.

The viral vector platforms also show huge potential.

I just can’t really see how a traditional vaccine approach like the Chinese one could really be successful though. It doesn’t make sense that it wouldn’t already have been useful for SARS etc if it were. The tech was tried - it’s the very first thing anyone would try as that’s how many vaccines are made.

We didn’t end up with this very new approach just for the craic. It was used because the traditional approaches haven’t every worked very well with this kind of virus.

Really good post.

Are you speculating that tradition vaccine technology could never have worked against Coronavirus or is that a theory taking hold?

With vaccines that use broken up or attenuated viruses, your immune system is likely to just become responsive to any number of random aspects of the proteins, not just the spike.

Why would this not mean the vaccine is more likely to be effective against variants?
As things stand, if there is a choice I am leaning towards a traditional choice such as the Valneva vaccine partially because I hope to avoid annual boosters for the new variants.

We didn’t end up with this very new approach just for the craic. It was used because the traditional approaches haven’t every worked very well with this kind of virus.

Do you not think it was because these techniques were being developed anyway and they took the opportunity to test the theory?
I agree that the possibilities in treating cancer etc are very exciting.

drunkmonkey · 24-05-2021 11:25am

Vic987 wrote: »

As things stand, if there is a choice I am leaning towards a traditional choice such as the Valneva vaccine partially because I hope to avoid annual boosters for the new variants.

I like the sound of that one, I see the UK has booked 100 million doses if the next trial is as successful. Not having to have constant boosters or worry about variants is the idea scenario hopefully it can deliver.
I assume our guys have gone all in on Pfizer so we'd have to travel somewhere to get it privately.

Micky 32 · 24-05-2021 11:26am

Do they ever give up FFS

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40296953.html

Vaccine Megathread No 2 - Read OP before posting

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