Query re primary curriculum

political analyst · 23-05-2021 02:22PM #1

https://gript.ie/why-are-teachers-being-told-to-introduce-transgenderism-to-four-year-olds/

Teachers are being advised to introduce transgenderism to children in Junior Infants in new guidelines from the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment (NCCA) and the Irish National Teachers Organisation (INTO).

The NCCA have also told teachers of Junior and Senior Infants (where children are typically between 4 and 6 years old) to tell schoolkids that “there’s no such thing as boys’ (or girls’) clothes (or haircuts, toys, colours.)”

Teachers union, the INTO has drawn up a list of reading materials on the topic saying the books and accompanying exercises for Junior and Senior Infants seek to encourage school children “to challenge their own concepts and ideas” around gender identity – whether they feel they are actually a boy or a girl.

Is this true? If it is, how could the INTO accept this? It cannot be ethical for a teacher to encourage pupils to question their own gender identities, regardless of what the NCCA says.

shtpEdthePlum · 23-05-2021 02:26PM

Like, there is no such thing as boys and girls toys anymore. Except to people who want to enforce antiquated gender constructs.

NSAman · 23-05-2021 02:28PM

Wait till CRT starts being taught!

Aleppo_rex · 23-05-2021 02:37PM

Seems like a good idea if you ask me. Early exposure feeds tolerance and acceptance.

Very young children are sponges and they don't see things in black and white they way a lot of adults to. This seems very healthy.

I'm not sure what "teaching transgenderism" means. I don't think the class teacher will be encouraging the children to swap clothes or something.

drunkmonkey · 23-05-2021 02:39PM

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

Like, there is no such thing as boys and girls toys anymore. Except to people who want to enforce antiquated gender constructs.

When you let the boys and girls decide for themselves in the toy shop you'll observe they have different tastes without trying to influence their decisions.
Girls want cuddles boys want to ninja kick you in the back of head, they're different creatures.

shtpEdthePlum · 23-05-2021 03:15PM

That's actually completely false. As somebody who has worked with children of all ages and demographics, they have all sorts of different tastes and preferences which are not necessarily delineated along gender lines.

I've seen as many boys loving kitchen toys and dolls as I have girls wanting farm machinery and football.

I've also seen adults in their lives frantically trying to correct these behaviours.

am_zarathustra · 23-05-2021 03:39PM

There's a wealth of Neuroscience research on the topic. There are essentially very few actual difference in the male and female brain when it comes down to it, culture plays a massive role. Telling kids what they should and shouldn't play with is damaging behaviour. I've seen boys play with Barbies and kitchen sets and be very affectionate and grow up without questioning their gender identity.

It's serves neither boys nor girls to have strict boundaries on what's acceptable at such a young age, they are just small people exploring their world. The broader their experience at this age the better.

Nozebleed · 23-05-2021 03:47PM

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

That's actually completely false. As somebody who has worked with children of all ages and demographics, they have all sorts of different tastes and preferences which are not necessarily delineated along gender lines.

I've seen as many boys loving kitchen toys and dolls as I have girls wanting farm machinery and football.

I've also seen adults in their lives frantically trying to correct these behaviours.

sounds like unconcious bias on your part. sorry..but boys and girls are 2 completely different animals. there'll always be some cross over. but it doesnt need to be influenced by some lunatic in a classroom..who thinks they know what kids like.

Cyrus · 23-05-2021 03:48PM

Kids are influenced at that age,

Take this for example, either it's the world's most incredible coincidence or its not

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.heart.co.uk/lifestyle/britains-first-transgender-family/

23-05-2021 03:50PM

Developing kids' critical thinking skills.

I stand aghast.

Gatling · 23-05-2021 04:25PM

Cyrus wrote: »

Kids are influenced at that age,

Take this for example, either it's the world's most incredible coincidence or its not

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.heart.co.uk/lifestyle/britains-first-transgender-family/

Brainwashing nothing more

Beechwoodspark · 23-05-2021 04:28PM

I would advise people to get involved on the parents council or school board whatever forum you can (like myself and my better half have). I’d wholeheartedly recommend it for many reasons.

Networking, socialising, keeping an eye on what’s going on, getting to know the teachers, just in general I’d recommend.

Just specifically on this thread, one of the benefits is that you have clear knowledge and oversight of what is being proposed for the curriculum.

And can make a difference (along with others) if need be.

punisher5112 · 23-05-2021 04:31PM

Kids need to be left as kids.... Innocent.... Non judgemental and have fun.....

This rubbish should in no way be getting any traction at all.

Leave the kids to worry about what you they'll play with next ...

Smee_Again · 23-05-2021 04:35PM

punisher5112 wrote: »

Leave the kids to worry about what you they'll play with next ...

Kids shouldn’t worry about what toys they play with, breaking down gender stereotypes will help with that.

punisher5112 · 23-05-2021 04:36PM

Smee_Again wrote: »

Kids shouldn’t worry about what toys they play with, breaking down gender stereotypes will help with that.

No what I meant was that's not a issue as in that's all they think about, food of course too....

jimmycrackcorm · 23-05-2021 04:55PM

This bit:

to challenge their own concepts and ideasâ€ around gender identity â€“ whether they feel they are actually a boy or a girl.

Seems so be a bad idea to me as it just seems to introduce self confusion instead of focusing acceptance of others.

anais · 23-05-2021 05:02PM

I always challenge gender stereotypes in my class. Get them to draw a nurse/Teacher /doctor/chef and even after twenty years of doing this little activity it's astounding how theybwill draw along the stereotype line. Scary really. Even when buying shoes girls face a basic challenge when running on yard. The'girls'shoe often has a hole on the front, whereas the boys ones are gripped, fully closed and usually named 'valiant' or some other crap. I buy my girls boys sketchers instead
Studies have shown that the skirts girls are required to wear (pp) actively work against them cycling to school.

Gatling · 23-05-2021 05:33PM

Is one of the leaving novels this year is about a trans teen ??

am_zarathustra · 23-05-2021 05:58PM

Gatling wrote: »

Is one of the leaving novels this year is about a trans teen ??

There are many books on the LC, staff choose which ones to do from a very long list. What's your point here?

Gatling · 23-05-2021 06:26PM

am_zarathustra wrote: »

What's your point here?

It's a question

French Toast · 23-05-2021 06:30PM

If parents want to read off that hymn sheet at home then more power to them. Crack on.

Doesn't belong in the classroom, imo.

punisher5112 · 23-05-2021 06:30PM

anais wrote: »

I always challenge gender stereotypes in my class. Get them to draw a nurse/Teacher /doctor/chef and even after twenty years of doing this little activity it's astounding how theybwill draw along the stereotype line. Scary really. Even when buying shoes girls face a basic challenge when running on yard. The'girls'shoe often has a hole on the front, whereas the boys ones are gripped, fully closed and usually named 'valiant' or some other crap. I buy my girls boys sketchers instead
Studies have shown that the skirts girls are required to wear (pp) actively work against them cycling to school.

Why is it scary though....

Children say and do silly things, any teacher thinks they will change that with this rubbish shouldn't be teaching.....

Trans and any other agenda isn't a thing to be bringing young kids into, that's the scary part.

spurious · 23-05-2021 06:35PM

gript.ie as a source?? Seriously?

Clickbait thread title changed.

LittleBrick · 23-05-2021 06:43PM

As a primary school teacher, this is not "teaching trangenderism" or anything of the sort. It is guidelines to start deconstructing the societal structures around gender which as very prevalent in primary schools throughout Ireland. Even in my first class, boys have quit gymnastics because it's a "girls sport". I personally welcome this movement by the NCCA. Sooner we get the Catholic Church out of primary schools the better.

If you want to take issue with anything to complain about, complain about the CPSMA new RSE guidelines, which state that children should be taught that "marriage is between a man an a woman", as they are stuck in an antiquated ideals.

anais · 23-05-2021 06:44PM

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why is it scary though....

Children say and do silly things, any teacher thinks they will change that with this rubbish shouldn't be teaching.....

Trans and any other agenda isn't a thing to be bringing young kids into, that's the scary part.

Scary, in that if children don't see themselves as equals,they won't go into certain professions as they perceive it as a male\female job. It is very important to challenge these perspectives in order to give both genders the opportunity to fulfil their potential, in a job\profession of their choice. I regularly get challenged by the sporty girls in my class as to why they don't see more 'girls on tv'. In my class we agree that sports teams shouldn't be gender specific until secondary school. Ie you get on the team because you're good enough. Full stop.
Should it be talked about in primary school?? A child approached me, 9 years old to say she didn't want to put down her gender on form as she is gender fluid. It is here, it's real, and , in context in terms of being age appropriate, yes, it should be talked about. As for a formal programme 'to be taught', I'm not so sure, but current SPHE programmes mention bisexual and homosexual.
We do have an issue in Catholic schools, but that's a whole other days discussion

punisher5112 · 23-05-2021 06:55PM

anais wrote: »

Scary, in that if children don't see themselves as equals,they won't go into certain professions as they perceive it as a male\female job. It is very important to challenge these perspectives in order to give both genders the opportunity to fulfil their potential, in a job\profession of their choice. I regularly get challenged by the sporty girls in my class as to why they don't see more 'girls on tv'. In my class we agree that sports teams shouldn't be gender specific until secondary school. Ie you get on the team because you're good enough. Full stop.
Should it be talked about in primary school?? A child approached me, 9 years old to say she didn't want to put down her gender on form as she is gender fluid. It is here, it's real, and , in context in terms of being age appropriate, yes, it should be talked about. As for a formal programme 'to be taught', I'm not so sure, but current SPHE programmes mention bisexual and homosexual.
We do have an issue in Catholic schools, but that's a whole other days discussion

But we aren't equal in that sense.... Don't mistake that for men are better by the way....

I'm 110% behind us all been treated the same and fairly but men and women are different it's just a fact.

anais · 23-05-2021 07:22PM

punisher5112 wrote: »

But we aren't equal in that sense.... Don't mistake that for men are better by the way....

I'm 110% behind us all been treated the same and fairly but men and women are different it's just a fact.

Listen, 3 kids and a full time job later I totally get the difference between men and women.
For the children in my care, my ultimate aim is for them to realise their potential, girls and boys-we teach the same Curriculum to both and I think their aspirations should be acknowledged, not damaged through some antiquated stereotype. The change in the media and in reporting of women in sport/media/equal pay is very welcome.
As for Post Primary, those guys are in a different world, a place I choose not to teach in and have no knowledge of.
Ultimately, equality and choice is my preference, whatever guise you put that under, framed as 'a programme' done or not, it is an issue of our time.

RealJohn · 23-05-2021 07:25PM

spurious wrote: »

gript.ie as a source?? Seriously?

gript have a clear agenda and we all know it, but this isn’t negative in and of itself. This sort of issue is being swept under the carpet and introduced to schools by stealth because the mainstream media refuses to cover it.

Rather than looking down your nose at the likes of gript, you should be asking why nobody else is reporting it. Parents don’t tend to know what’s being taught. Many of them would not be comfortable with this, but only the likes of gript are informing them. It’s all well and good to say that it’s freely available online (and it is) but how many parents read through the syllabus for what their children are being taught? Not many, would be my guess.

LittleBrick · 23-05-2021 08:24PM

RealJohn wrote: »

gript have a clear agenda and we all know it, but this isn’t negative in and of itself. This sort of issue is being swept under the carpet and introduced to schools by stealth because the mainstream media refuses to cover it.

Rather than looking down your nose at the likes of gript, you should be asking why nobody else is reporting it. Parents don’t tend to know what’s being taught. Many of them would not be comfortable with this, but only the likes of gript are informing them. It’s all well and good to say that it’s freely available online (and it is) but how many parents read through the syllabus for what their children are being taught? Not many, would be my guess.

1. That's the parents responsibility. Not the teachers' or medias'.
2. Disapprove of what exactly? Their child learning that a girl can play with trucks? That a boy can do dancing? That a boy can wear pink if he wants? Are you sure that there is a huge amount of parents that would complain their child was being taught that they don't have to conform to centuries old stereotypes?

afkasurfjunkie · 23-05-2021 09:17PM

RealJohn wrote: »

gript have a clear agenda and we all know it, but this isn’t negative in and of itself. This sort of issue is being swept under the carpet and introduced to schools by stealth because the mainstream media refuses to cover it.

Rather than looking down your nose at the likes of gript, you should be asking why nobody else is reporting it. Parents don’t tend to know what’s being taught. Many of them would not be comfortable with this, but only the likes of gript are informing them. It’s all well and good to say that it’s freely available online (and it is) but how many parents read through the syllabus for what their children are being taught? Not many, would be my guess.

Nothing new or groundbreaking at all I would think. When I did training for Aistear (a play based methodology for the infant classes) back in 2010/11 our facilitator who was based in an all boys infant school told us all about her play kitchen area and the doll that the boys loved to play with.
Gript is a cesspit. We are well passed the days where the girls did knitting on a Friday afternoon while the boys went out for PE.

am_zarathustra · 23-05-2021 09:51PM

I was in a school they did that. I can't knit and I kicked up such a fuss I was allowed out to play soccer, I was much better than all the lads too. Better at maths than them too. I liked Lego and my dad raised me while my mam went to work. The only noticable effect this had on any of my siblings is we all have very equal relationships with regards childcare and caring. Oh and my Dad was shocking at hair so I had one sketchy pigtail hairstyle for about a decade......scarred

Challenging gender roles is a no brainer. It disenfranchises women, damages men so they can't articulate when they feel vunerable, creates unhealthy relationship dynamics etc. It's a good thing

Query re primary curriculum

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