Query re primary curriculum

political analyst

https://gript.ie/why-are-teachers-being-told-to-introduce-transgenderism-to-four-year-olds/

Teachers are being advised to introduce transgenderism to children in Junior Infants in new guidelines from the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment (NCCA) and the Irish National Teachers Organisation (INTO).

The NCCA have also told teachers of Junior and Senior Infants (where children are typically between 4 and 6 years old) to tell schoolkids that “there’s no such thing as boys’ (or girls’) clothes (or haircuts, toys, colours.)”

Teachers union, the INTO has drawn up a list of reading materials on the topic saying the books and accompanying exercises for Junior and Senior Infants seek to encourage school children “to challenge their own concepts and ideas” around gender identity – whether they feel they are actually a boy or a girl.

Is this true? If it is, how could the INTO accept this? It cannot be ethical for a teacher to encourage pupils to question their own gender identities, regardless of what the NCCA says.

shtpEdthePlum

Like, there is no such thing as boys and girls toys anymore. Except to people who want to enforce antiquated gender constructs.

NSAman

Wait till CRT starts being taught!

Aleppo_rex

Seems like a good idea if you ask me. Early exposure feeds tolerance and acceptance.

Very young children are sponges and they don't see things in black and white they way a lot of adults to. This seems very healthy.

I'm not sure what "teaching transgenderism" means. I don't think the class teacher will be encouraging the children to swap clothes or something.

drunkmonkey

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

Like, there is no such thing as boys and girls toys anymore. Except to people who want to enforce antiquated gender constructs.

When you let the boys and girls decide for themselves in the toy shop you'll observe they have different tastes without trying to influence their decisions.
Girls want cuddles boys want to ninja kick you in the back of head, they're different creatures.

shtpEdthePlum

That's actually completely false. As somebody who has worked with children of all ages and demographics, they have all sorts of different tastes and preferences which are not necessarily delineated along gender lines.

I've seen as many boys loving kitchen toys and dolls as I have girls wanting farm machinery and football.

I've also seen adults in their lives frantically trying to correct these behaviours.

am_zarathustra

There's a wealth of Neuroscience research on the topic. There are essentially very few actual difference in the male and female brain when it comes down to it, culture plays a massive role. Telling kids what they should and shouldn't play with is damaging behaviour. I've seen boys play with Barbies and kitchen sets and be very affectionate and grow up without questioning their gender identity.

It's serves neither boys nor girls to have strict boundaries on what's acceptable at such a young age, they are just small people exploring their world. The broader their experience at this age the better.

Nozebleed

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

That's actually completely false. As somebody who has worked with children of all ages and demographics, they have all sorts of different tastes and preferences which are not necessarily delineated along gender lines.

I've seen as many boys loving kitchen toys and dolls as I have girls wanting farm machinery and football.

I've also seen adults in their lives frantically trying to correct these behaviours.

sounds like unconcious bias on your part. sorry..but boys and girls are 2 completely different animals. there'll always be some cross over. but it doesnt need to be influenced by some lunatic in a classroom..who thinks they know what kids like.

Cyrus

Kids are influenced at that age,

Take this for example, either it's the world's most incredible coincidence or its not

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.heart.co.uk/lifestyle/britains-first-transgender-family/

Developing kids' critical thinking skills.


I stand aghast.

Gatling

Cyrus wrote: »

Kids are influenced at that age,

Take this for example, either it's the world's most incredible coincidence or its not

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.heart.co.uk/lifestyle/britains-first-transgender-family/

Brainwashing nothing more

Beechwoodspark

I would advise people to get involved on the parents council or school board whatever forum you can (like myself and my better half have). I’d wholeheartedly recommend it for many reasons.

Networking, socialising, keeping an eye on what’s going on, getting to know the teachers, just in general I’d recommend.

Just specifically on this thread, one of the benefits is that you have clear knowledge and oversight of what is being proposed for the curriculum.

And can make a difference (along with others) if need be.

punisher5112

Kids need to be left as kids.... Innocent.... Non judgemental and have fun.....

This rubbish should in no way be getting any traction at all.

Leave the kids to worry about what you they'll play with next ...

Smee_Again

punisher5112 wrote: »

Leave the kids to worry about what you they'll play with next ...

Kids shouldn’t worry about what toys they play with, breaking down gender stereotypes will help with that.

punisher5112

Smee_Again wrote: »

Kids shouldn’t worry about what toys they play with, breaking down gender stereotypes will help with that.

No what I meant was that's not a issue as in that's all they think about, food of course too....

jimmycrackcorm

This bit:

to challenge their own concepts and ideas†around gender identity – whether they feel they are actually a boy or a girl.

Seems so be a bad idea to me as it just seems to introduce self confusion instead of focusing acceptance of others.

anais

I always challenge gender stereotypes in my class. Get them to draw a nurse/Teacher /doctor/chef and even after twenty years of doing this little activity it's astounding how theybwill draw along the stereotype line. Scary really. Even when buying shoes girls face a basic challenge when running on yard. The'girls'shoe often has a hole on the front, whereas the boys ones are gripped, fully closed and usually named 'valiant' or some other crap. I buy my girls boys sketchers instead
Studies have shown that the skirts girls are required to wear (pp) actively work against them cycling to school.

Gatling

Is one of the leaving novels this year is about a trans teen ??

am_zarathustra

Gatling wrote: »

Is one of the leaving novels this year is about a trans teen ??

There are many books on the LC, staff choose which ones to do from a very long list. What's your point here?

Gatling

am_zarathustra wrote: »

What's your point here?

It's a question

French Toast

If parents want to read off that hymn sheet at home then more power to them. Crack on.

Doesn't belong in the classroom, imo.

punisher5112

anais wrote: »

I always challenge gender stereotypes in my class. Get them to draw a nurse/Teacher /doctor/chef and even after twenty years of doing this little activity it's astounding how theybwill draw along the stereotype line. Scary really. Even when buying shoes girls face a basic challenge when running on yard. The'girls'shoe often has a hole on the front, whereas the boys ones are gripped, fully closed and usually named 'valiant' or some other crap. I buy my girls boys sketchers instead
Studies have shown that the skirts girls are required to wear (pp) actively work against them cycling to school.

Why is it scary though....

Children say and do silly things, any teacher thinks they will change that with this rubbish shouldn't be teaching.....


Trans and any other agenda isn't a thing to be bringing young kids into, that's the scary part.

spurious

gript.ie as a source?? Seriously?


Clickbait thread title changed.

LittleBrick

As a primary school teacher, this is not "teaching trangenderism" or anything of the sort. It is guidelines to start deconstructing the societal structures around gender which as very prevalent in primary schools throughout Ireland. Even in my first class, boys have quit gymnastics because it's a "girls sport". I personally welcome this movement by the NCCA. Sooner we get the Catholic Church out of primary schools the better.

If you want to take issue with anything to complain about, complain about the CPSMA new RSE guidelines, which state that children should be taught that "marriage is between a man an a woman", as they are stuck in an antiquated ideals.

anais

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why is it scary though....

Children say and do silly things, any teacher thinks they will change that with this rubbish shouldn't be teaching.....


Trans and any other agenda isn't a thing to be bringing young kids into, that's the scary part.

Scary, in that if children don't see themselves as equals,they won't go into certain professions as they perceive it as a male\female job. It is very important to challenge these perspectives in order to give both genders the opportunity to fulfil their potential, in a job\profession of their choice. I regularly get challenged by the sporty girls in my class as to why they don't see more 'girls on tv'. In my class we agree that sports teams shouldn't be gender specific until secondary school. Ie you get on the team because you're good enough. Full stop.
Should it be talked about in primary school?? A child approached me, 9 years old to say she didn't want to put down her gender on form as she is gender fluid. It is here, it's real, and , in context in terms of being age appropriate, yes, it should be talked about. As for a formal programme 'to be taught', I'm not so sure, but current SPHE programmes mention bisexual and homosexual.
We do have an issue in Catholic schools, but that's a whole other days discussion

punisher5112

anais wrote: »

Scary, in that if children don't see themselves as equals,they won't go into certain professions as they perceive it as a male\female job. It is very important to challenge these perspectives in order to give both genders the opportunity to fulfil their potential, in a job\profession of their choice. I regularly get challenged by the sporty girls in my class as to why they don't see more 'girls on tv'. In my class we agree that sports teams shouldn't be gender specific until secondary school. Ie you get on the team because you're good enough. Full stop.
Should it be talked about in primary school?? A child approached me, 9 years old to say she didn't want to put down her gender on form as she is gender fluid. It is here, it's real, and , in context in terms of being age appropriate, yes, it should be talked about. As for a formal programme 'to be taught', I'm not so sure, but current SPHE programmes mention bisexual and homosexual.
We do have an issue in Catholic schools, but that's a whole other days discussion

But we aren't equal in that sense.... Don't mistake that for men are better by the way....

I'm 110% behind us all been treated the same and fairly but men and women are different it's just a fact.

anais

punisher5112 wrote: »

But we aren't equal in that sense.... Don't mistake that for men are better by the way....

I'm 110% behind us all been treated the same and fairly but men and women are different it's just a fact.

Listen, 3 kids and a full time job later I totally get the difference between men and women.
For the children in my care, my ultimate aim is for them to realise their potential, girls and boys-we teach the same Curriculum to both and I think their aspirations should be acknowledged, not damaged through some antiquated stereotype. The change in the media and in reporting of women in sport/media/equal pay is very welcome.
As for Post Primary, those guys are in a different world, a place I choose not to teach in and have no knowledge of.
Ultimately, equality and choice is my preference, whatever guise you put that under, framed as 'a programme' done or not, it is an issue of our time.

RealJohn

spurious wrote: »

gript.ie as a source?? Seriously?

gript have a clear agenda and we all know it, but this isn’t negative in and of itself. This sort of issue is being swept under the carpet and introduced to schools by stealth because the mainstream media refuses to cover it.

Rather than looking down your nose at the likes of gript, you should be asking why nobody else is reporting it. Parents don’t tend to know what’s being taught. Many of them would not be comfortable with this, but only the likes of gript are informing them. It’s all well and good to say that it’s freely available online (and it is) but how many parents read through the syllabus for what their children are being taught? Not many, would be my guess.

LittleBrick

RealJohn wrote: »

gript have a clear agenda and we all know it, but this isn’t negative in and of itself. This sort of issue is being swept under the carpet and introduced to schools by stealth because the mainstream media refuses to cover it.

Rather than looking down your nose at the likes of gript, you should be asking why nobody else is reporting it. Parents don’t tend to know what’s being taught. Many of them would not be comfortable with this, but only the likes of gript are informing them. It’s all well and good to say that it’s freely available online (and it is) but how many parents read through the syllabus for what their children are being taught? Not many, would be my guess.

1. That's the parents responsibility. Not the teachers' or medias'.
2. Disapprove of what exactly? Their child learning that a girl can play with trucks? That a boy can do dancing? That a boy can wear pink if he wants? Are you sure that there is a huge amount of parents that would complain their child was being taught that they don't have to conform to centuries old stereotypes?

afkasurfjunkie

RealJohn wrote: »

gript have a clear agenda and we all know it, but this isn’t negative in and of itself. This sort of issue is being swept under the carpet and introduced to schools by stealth because the mainstream media refuses to cover it.

Rather than looking down your nose at the likes of gript, you should be asking why nobody else is reporting it. Parents don’t tend to know what’s being taught. Many of them would not be comfortable with this, but only the likes of gript are informing them. It’s all well and good to say that it’s freely available online (and it is) but how many parents read through the syllabus for what their children are being taught? Not many, would be my guess.

Nothing new or groundbreaking at all I would think. When I did training for Aistear (a play based methodology for the infant classes) back in 2010/11 our facilitator who was based in an all boys infant school told us all about her play kitchen area and the doll that the boys loved to play with.
Gript is a cesspit. We are well passed the days where the girls did knitting on a Friday afternoon while the boys went out for PE.

am_zarathustra

I was in a school they did that. I can't knit and I kicked up such a fuss I was allowed out to play soccer, I was much better than all the lads too. Better at maths than them too. I liked Lego and my dad raised me while my mam went to work. The only noticable effect this had on any of my siblings is we all have very equal relationships with regards childcare and caring. Oh and my Dad was shocking at hair so I had one sketchy pigtail hairstyle for about a decade......scarred

Challenging gender roles is a no brainer. It disenfranchises women, damages men so they can't articulate when they feel vunerable, creates unhealthy relationship dynamics etc. It's a good thing

punisher5112

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I was in a school they did that. I can't knit and I kicked up such a fuss I was allowed out to play soccer, I was much better than all the lads too. Better at maths than them too. I liked Lego and my dad raised me while my mam went to work. The only noticable effect this had on any of my siblings is we all have very equal relationships with regards childcare and caring. Oh and my Dad was shocking at hair so I had one sketchy pigtail hairstyle for about a decade......scarred

Challenging gender roles is a no brainer. It disenfranchises women, damages men so they can't articulate when they feel vunerable, creates unhealthy relationship dynamics etc. It's a good thing

I have no hair and sure as hell can't do the daughters but I did try....

Sure hell I will never live it down that I dressed her in PJ's and brought her to crèche.....

Cyrus

Challenging traditional gender roles is fine. Introducing infants to the concept of transgenderism is something else entirely.

Smee_Again

Cyrus wrote: »

Challenging traditional gender roles is fine. Introducing infants to the concept of transgenderism is something else entirely.

Why? Some kids might have transgender parents and these resources will help other classmates understand what that means. Surely that’s a good thing.

killbillvol2

Cyrus wrote: »

Challenging traditional gender roles is fine. Introducing infants to the concept of transgenderism is something else entirely.

I've read the guidelines and I can't find the bit about introducing infants to transgenderism. Could you point it out to me?

And while you're at it could you explain the best method of introducing 4 year olds to the concept? Thanks.

RealJohn

Cyrus wrote: »

Challenging traditional gender roles is fine. Introducing infants to the concept of transgenderism is something else entirely.

Exactly, but you’ll note the hostility to bringing that up. They don’t want to hear any dissent. Some of the stuff in the primary school RSE plan is at least worth reporting on, but that doesn’t happen in mainstream media.

RealJohn

LittleBrick wrote: »

1. That's the parents responsibility. Not the teachers' or medias'.

Wrong. Objectively wrong, in fact. That is exactly the role of the media: to inform the public of things that might/should concern them. The fact that nobody has called you on that shows exactly where people’s priorities on this topic lie. What do you think the media’s responsibility is? The Kardashians?

I agree that it’s not necessarily the teachers’ responsibility, and I agree that parents should, in an ideal world, know what their children are being taught, but that simply isn’t the case. That’s actually why we have teachers: because parents can’t be expected to know everything their kids are taught in schools. If they did, they wouldn’t need teachers, other than as babysitters.

Smee_Again

killbillvol2 wrote: »

I've read the guidelines and I can't find the bit about introducing infants to transgenderism. Could you point it out to me?

And while you're at it could you explain the best method of introducing 4 year olds to the concept? Thanks.

Seems to be less about transgenderism and more about gender stereotypes.

My princess boy is the picture book suggested for Junior and Senior Infants.

I don’t know the book but it seems to be about a boy who likes wear tiaras and girly dresses.

Students are then asked questions about what makes the boy special and what makes the student special.

killbillvol2

Smee_Again wrote: »

Seems to be less about transgenderism and more about gender stereotypes.

My princess boy is the picture book suggested for Junior and Senior Infants.

I don’t know the book but it seems to be about a boy who likes wear tiaras and girly dresses.

Students are then asked questions about what makes the boy special and what makes the student special.

Whoosh

Cyrus

killbillvol2 wrote: »

I've read the guidelines and I can't find the bit about introducing infants to transgenderism. Could you point it out to me?

And while you're at it could you explain the best method of introducing 4 year olds to the concept? Thanks.

A 4 year old is an infant and I wouldn't introduce them to the concept.

am_zarathustra

Cyrus wrote: »

A 4 year old is an infant and I wouldn't introduce them to the concept.

Are you a primary teacher, child psychologist or education specialist? Like the people who wrote these plans in line with our understanding of developmental stages.

It's interesting when this topic comes up in schools it's often the teachers who have a hard time with it not the students, nice to see our open and inclusive education system beginning to pay off and producing more empathetic people.

killbillvol2

Cyrus wrote: »

A 4 year old is an infant and I wouldn't introduce them to the concept.

Where does it say they should be introduced to the concept?

Cyrus

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Where does it say they should be introduced to the concept?

You asked how I would be introduce them to it. I said I wouldn't.

Blush_01

RealJohn wrote: »

gript have a clear agenda and we all know it, but this isn’t negative in and of itself. This sort of issue is being swept under the carpet and introduced to schools by stealth because the mainstream media refuses to cover it.

Rather than looking down your nose at the likes of gript, you should be asking why nobody else is reporting it. Parents don’t tend to know what’s being taught. Many of them would not be comfortable with this, but only the likes of gript are informing them. It’s all well and good to say that it’s freely available online (and it is) but how many parents read through the syllabus for what their children are being taught? Not many, would be my guess.

Still waiting for Gript to be aghast at the CPMSA recommendations that children be told that puberty is a gift from God, and that they're perfectly created to procreate with him. Some of the most disturbing and tone-deaf phrasing I've ever read.

People being trans won't knock a beat out of a child, nor will it persuade them that that's their reality, funnily enough it's the prejudiced adults who can't cope with it. How interesting.

amacca

Blush_01 wrote: »

People being trans won't knock a beat out of a child, nor will it persuade them that that's their reality, funnily enough it's the prejudiced adults who can't cope with it.

Depends on the group of adults they grow up in and around in their community........it could take quite a bit of time to start changing some attitudes imo.

They definitely have strong opinions on both sides by the time they get to secondary (boys at least although how much of that is because of what the group think and pressure the group of lads they hang around with puts on them would have to be factored in) .....interestingly to me girls seem to have much less strong opinions at that age

drunkmonkey

Blush_01 wrote: »

People being trans won't knock a beat out of a child, nor will it persuade them that that's their reality, funnily enough it's the prejudiced adults who can't cope with it. How interesting.

We're all prejudice, you say adults can't cope with it, we don't want to cope with it, we want the best possible future for our children, translife is a difficult and dangerous road, if there's even a remote chance early introduction can influence or confuse them Teachers should keep well out of it.
Teach them tolerance of all people, you don't need to single out any particular group to achieve that.

Cyrus

Blush_01 wrote: »

People being trans won't knock a beat out of a child, nor will it persuade them that that's their reality, funnily enough it's the prejudiced adults who can't cope with it. How interesting.

You say that but this would suggest otherwise no?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.heart.co.uk/lifestyle/britains-first-transgender-family/

Blush_01

Cyrus wrote: »

You say that but this would suggest otherwise no?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.heart.co.uk/lifestyle/britains-first-transgender-family/

I see your agenda. If you want to look at the curriculum it's available online for anyone to see. Come back to me when you have actual evidence about what children are being taught.

Considering there's a trio of you actively campaigning against trans awareness on this thread, I'm going to assume it's orchestrated and leave you to your bigotry.

Cyrus

Blush_01 wrote: »

I see your agenda. If you want to look at the curriculum it's available online for anyone to see. Come back to me when you have actual evidence about what children are being taught.

Considering there's a trio of you actively campaigning against trans awareness on this thread, I'm going to assume it's orchestrated and leave you to your bigotry.

Not at all I just don't want my 4 or 5 year old taught about it. If you are telling me that won't be happening then happy days.

Calling me a bigot because I disagree with you isn't on. Kids are more impressionable than you think and that family in England is a cautionary tale don't you think?

drunkmonkey

Well Cyrus if you won't date a trans woman your a Bigot, you may just own up to it.

gameoverdude

drunkmonkey wrote:

Well Cyrus if you won't date a trans woman your a Bigot, you may just own up to it.

Ridiculous