Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

faceman · 19-05-2021 02:03PM

gozunda wrote: »

Disproportionate to what exactly?

You're not special in anyway. The absolute majority of people have spent the last 18 months sticking to the rules

The 2000 euro fine is there atm to discourage all non essential travel whilst Ireland gets its vaccination rate to its designated target with the objective of herd immunity.

"But me holidays whaaaa ..."

Is it really such a big bloody ask in the midst of a pandemic?

Eitherway from what I'm reading about the idea of a Belfast bolthole - is not going to be that simple. But no matter...

The pandemic, as a crisis, is very much over for Ireland and the EU.

Foxtrol · 19-05-2021 02:13PM

Deleted User wrote: »

This is just you trying to justify the breaking of the rules because you see fit. You're no better than the minsters who attended golfgate or the travellers with the marquee last week. You can dress it up as the government being unreasonable all you want, but it's just plain old selfishness, really. Rules for thee, not for me. I mean, that's fine and all, but lets not try to dress it up as some sort of mass revolt at 'draconian' laws......it's really just selfish individuals trying to circumnavigate the laws for their own personal gain. The irony is, the more that goes on then the longer the restrictions will be in place.

Here are multiple posters in this thread alone talking about flouting the rules (some of them don't even understand the rules), many of whom are trying to frame it as a "the people have had enough....fight da powah!!" struggle against a fascist state. In reality, they are flouting laws meant to protect themselves and others. Like listening to a load of drink drivers claiming a couple of pints is grand.

Your argument would make sense if the science now wasn't completely against you regarding many of the actions you support. For example, once people are vaccinated the level of risk of carrying and transmission falls drastically, meaning there is now no legitimate case to stop vaccinated people from travelling without quarantine from areas of low COVID cases. That activity is far less 'dangerous' than many of the reopening efforts already underway.

Your comparison with drink drivers is extremely weak because there is no science that supports that, an earlier comparison with speeding is much better. What the government is currently doing is saying that no car on any road can go above 10 km/h because of the blanket statement that it is safer if anyone gets hit by one at that speed. It completely ignores risk and impact the decision has on the lives of people.

gozunda · 19-05-2021 02:15PM

Valhallapt wrote: »

It’s disproportionate to every other state in the EU. My right to travel to my second home is prevented because I am in Ireland. If I was in Any other state in the EU I would be allowed to travel to my second home.

All EU countries have travel restrictions. They're all different. Ireland has a fine to Discourage non essential travel. You do NOT have to pay it if you chose to abide by the travel restrictions.

"Your right" to travel for essential reasons is not prohibited here.

If you genuinely have a "second home" - then that would be considered essential travel.

Sorry if you are still confused by this - it was already explained when you brought it up previously.

As stated - The 2000 euro fine is there atm to discourage all non essential travel whilst Ireland gets its vaccination rate to its designated target with the objective of herd immunity

The Nal · 19-05-2021 02:17PM

Tazz T wrote: »

https://www.thelocal.de/20210519/eu-agrees-to-open-borders-to-vaccinated-tourists-from-outside-bloc-2/

No date for when it comes into effect. So what is Leo on about when he talks about extending the ban on travel?

From the Times - The new rules could be formally approved later this week and can be implemented soon thereafter.

So if you're vaxxed up and can prove it you can travel to some EU countries from next week probably. Getting back in is the issue.

19-05-2021 02:17PM

Valhallapt wrote: »

It’s disproportionate to every other state in the EU. My right to travel to my second home is prevented because I am in Ireland. If I was in Any other state in the EU I would be allowed to travel to my second home.

That's depends on your reason for travel, if it's for a holiday, then everybody is restricted from holidays.
Nothing stopping you from moving to your second home.

gozunda · 19-05-2021 02:18PM

faceman wrote: »

The pandemic, as a crisis, is very much over for Ireland and the EU.

And thats according to which experts?

Until EU countries including Ireland have the majority of their population vaccinated- then that's no according to current advice - the pandemic is not over for Ireland and the EU.

Klonker · 19-05-2021 02:18PM

gozunda wrote: »

Disproportionate to what exactly?

You're not special in anyway. The absolute majority of people have spent the last 18 months sticking to the rules

The 2000 euro fine is there atm to discourage all non essential travel whilst Ireland gets its vaccination rate to its designated target with the objective of herd immunity.

"But me holidays whaaaa ..."

Is it really such a big bloody ask in the midst of a pandemic?

Eitherway from what I'm reading about the idea of a Belfast bolthole - is not going to be that simple. But no matter...

Go tell these people "But my holidays whaaaa...".

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0518/1222442-travel-restrictions-covid/

The Nal · 19-05-2021 02:20PM

Klonker wrote: »

Go tell these people "But my holidays whaaaa...".

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0518/1222442-travel-restrictions-covid/

Jesus how bad must Zimbabwe be if that nurse moved from there to Portlaoise?!

Swaine · 19-05-2021 02:24PM

Londonders aghast at the fact the Irish cannot have a drink outside, cannot enter the country without a PCR test - even from the so called “common travel”.

Let’s not forget 40% of our population have got 1 dose and around 15% of our most vulnerable vaccinated.

I’m currently sitting inside an Irish pub in London
having a drink and a meal.

Absolutely mental what the Irish put up with.

gozunda · 19-05-2021 02:25PM

Klonker wrote: »

Go tell these people "But my holidays whaaaa...".

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0518/1222442-travel-restrictions-covid/

Ah goalpost moving - good stuff. Well done.

Are those people looking to fuq off via Belfast or similar for two weeks in Playa del Tonto or similar?

Big difference in having essential family reasons for travel and advocating for same as compared to telling us that you're special because of 18 months abiding to the rules and feq the rest of ye (or wtte)

19-05-2021 02:26PM

Sad that having a pint inside a pub is the most important thing for people!

Tazz T · 19-05-2021 02:31PM

The Nal wrote: »

From the Times - The new rules could be formally approved later this week and can be implemented soon thereafter.

So if you're vaxxed up and can prove it you can travel to some EU countries from next week probably. Getting back in is the issue.

The issue is the 2k fine for leaving.

Regardless of the fact that Americans could be allowed in while we're still subject to a fine for leaving, the EC isn't going to stand by idly as Ireland signs up to this and still has the fine in place.

gozunda · 19-05-2021 02:32PM

Swaine wrote: »

Londonders aghast at the fact the Irish cannot have a drink outside, cannot enter the country without a PCR test - even from the so called “common travel”.

Let’s not forget 40% of our population have got 1 dose and around 15% of our most vulnerable vaccinated.

I’m currently sitting inside an Irish pub in London
having a drink and a meal.

Absolutely mental what the Irish put up with.

What all Londoners? You conducted a full survey of all 11 million people in the greater London area in less than 2 days? Well done.

Though I reckon they wouldn't be surprised at all if you explained that when we get to the same level of vaccinations as when they opened pubs - we will be having pints too.

But nooooo Ireland is the Worstest ever!

Just a heads up - there's no reason for anyone here to "put up" with anything btw. . Emigration is restriction free afaik.

Dr. Em · 19-05-2021 02:33PM

Swaine wrote: »

Londonders aghast at the fact the Irish cannot have a drink outside, cannot enter the country without a PCR test - even from the so called “common travel”.

Let’s not forget 40% of our population have got 1 dose and around 15% of our most vulnerable vaccinated.

I’m currently sitting inside an Irish pub in London
having a drink and a meal.

Absolutely mental what the Irish put up with.

Wait until they hear what you have to do to get into the UK from a red-list country - or even one from the very restricted green-list.

Klonker · 19-05-2021 02:35PM

gozunda wrote: »

Ah goalpost moving - good stuff. Well done.

Are those people looking to fuq off via Belfast or similar for two weeks in Playa del Tonto or similar?

Big difference in having essential family reasons for travel and advocating for same as compared to telling us that you're special because of 18 months abiding to the rules and feq the rest of ye (or wtte)

Where's the goalpost moving? All of the people in that article either can't travel because their very valid reason for wanting to travel are not deemed as essential so would be fined 2k each or for those who's travel is deemed essential they can't travel due to MHQ. These are both policies you agree with and support aren't they? Or do you think those people should allowed to travel at the moment?

hynesie08 · 19-05-2021 02:40PM

Swaine wrote: »

Londonders aghast at the fact the Irish cannot have a drink outside, cannot enter the country without a PCR test - even from the so called “common travel”.

Let’s not forget 40% of our population have got 1 dose and around 15% of our most vulnerable vaccinated.

I’m currently sitting inside an Irish pub in London
having a drink and a meal.

Absolutely mental what the Irish put up with.

They should visit a doctor or quit drinking If they can't remember they were in the same position 3 weeks ago.

faceman · 19-05-2021 02:40PM

gozunda wrote: »

And thats according to which experts?

Until EU countries including Ireland have the majority of their population vaccinated- then that's no according to current advice - the pandemic is not over for Ireland and the EU.

Look around you and read the room. People in Ireland are living in a vacuum listening to people like McConkey and McLysaght.

The HSE stood down from crisis measures months ago. Discreetly with no mention to the media, they told staff that crisis childcare measures for staff were no longer in place. They don’t even test everyone going to hospital anymore.

Look at the hospital rates for covid. Dropping repeatedly despite the “high” levels of daily cases. Case numbers are rapidly becoming meaningless.

That’s just Ireland. Look at the rest of Europe.

Foxtrol · 19-05-2021 02:42PM

gozunda wrote: »

And thats according to which experts?

Until EU countries including Ireland have the majority of their population vaccinated- then that's no according to current advice - the pandemic is not over for Ireland and the EU.

By that logic everyone should be on maximum lockdown until the majority of their population is vaccinated.

It is taking the '10 km/h everywhere' logic and it is out of step with most international scientists at this point.

gozunda · 19-05-2021 02:44PM

Klonker wrote: »

Where's the goalpost moving? All of the people in that article either can't travel because their very valid reason for wanting to travel are not deemed as essential so would be fined 2k each or for those who's travel is deemed essential they can't travel due to MHQ. These are both policies you agree with and support aren't they? Or do you think those people should allowed to travel at the moment?

Not only were the goalposts moved- they've disappeared over the horizon.

Where are any of those people looking to get out of Ireland for a holiday? Or claiming they don't give a monkies about restrictions here or wtte? As has been discussed in the comments to which I had replied earlier.

The fine is to discourage non essential travel from here.

Most of the people in your link are looking to be given exemptions to allow for essential travell from redlist countries or travelling home and back to one.

Afaik exemptions are available on a person by person basis and specific circumstances.

But hey if you want to discuss that go ahead. No one is stopping you

kilns · 19-05-2021 02:49PM

If someone is fully vaccinated how can Ireland logically bar them from entering or leaving the country?

It defies logic

gozunda · 19-05-2021 02:50PM

faceman wrote: »

Look around you and read the room. People in Ireland are living in a vacuum listening to people like McConkey and McLysaght. The HSE stood down from crisis measures months ago. Discreetly with no mention to the media, they told staff that crisis childcare measures for staff were no longer in place. They don’t even test everyone going to hospital anymore. Look at the hospital rates for covid. Dropping repeatedly despite the “high” levels of daily cases. Case numbers are rapidly becoming meaningless. That’s just Ireland. Look at the rest of Europe.

LOl. I have. And no one here can be accurately called an expert or make a claim the pandemic is over just because they want to go on their holliers.

All EU countries are maintaining restrictions regardless. All EU countries are working towards achieving herd immunity through vaccination. We really don't need to encourage people to do what they like because they're think worth it or stte

And no one I know listens to McConkey - and he's got feq all to do with anything as it stands.

dublin_paul · 19-05-2021 02:56PM

bubblypop wrote: »

Sad that having a pint inside a pub is the most important thing for people!

Not at all sad actually.

faceman · 19-05-2021 02:59PM

gozunda wrote: »

LOl. I have. And no one here can be accurately called an expert or make a claim the pandemic is over just because they want to go on their holliers.

Given the airtime “experts” like McConkey and McLysaght get, there are plenty of people here in this thread with expert status, yourself and myself included :pac: :pac:

Joking aside, I don’t think anyone is claiming the pandemic is over because they want their holibobs. With testing in place and the Travel Cert on the cusp of being introduced, there’s no justifiable reason that Ireland has for delaying non essential travel. The excuse of variants just doesn’t cut it given the vaccines work against all variants.

wrote:

All EU countries are maintaining restrictions regardless.

What do you mean by this? It’s very much a misrepresentation of reality. EU countries are continuing on their paths of deescalation with some not required testing from tourists.

wrote:

All EU countries are working towards achieving herd immunity through vaccination. We really don't need to encourage people to do what they like because they're think worth it or stte

That sounds great in theory but as I’ve already pointed out, the stats show us that herd immunity isn’t necessary to reduce the dangers of covid. Hospital cases have dropped dramatically. Covid clearly only had a serious impact on the elderly and vulnerable risk groups, and the vast majority of those have been vaccinated. If Tony Hulahoop is telling grandparents that they can go out and “hug their grandchildren”, then what does it matter if their grandchildren are in Glasnevin or Rome. The vaccine doesn’t stop working when you get on an airplane.

Swaine · 19-05-2021 03:05PM

bubblypop wrote: »

Sad that having a pint inside a pub is the most important thing for people!

I bet it’s important to the business owners, their suppliers, ohh and the small matter of tens of thousands of hospitality workers.

Such small and narrow minded nonsense comment.

19-05-2021 03:07PM

Always the same on here, soon and gloom, Ireland is the worst place in the world, no-one has any rules except Ireland blah blah blah.....

There are restrictions on non essential travel all over Europe. There are different restrictions in different countries at different times.
Posters on here moaning about the laws and yet it seems plenty of them don't even actually know what the laws are!

19-05-2021 03:09PM

Swaine wrote: »

I bet it’s important to the business owners, their suppliers, ohh and the small matter of tens of thousands of hospitality workers.

Such small and narrow minded nonsense comment.

Ah but that is not what you meant in your post. You seem to think that because the Brits can drink inside a pub for the last few.days that they are somehow way better off then Ireland. You didn't pass a thought on landlords or their suppliers.

patscott27 · 19-05-2021 03:12PM

In my experience they don't serve lager anywhere near cool enough over there in the UK. So they can keep their warm Heineken so they can.

19-05-2021 03:15PM

patscott27 wrote: »

In my experience they don't serve lager anywhere near cool enough over there in the UK. So they can keep their warm Heineken so they can.

Anyone drinking lager in the UK, given the vast range of ales, bitters and ciders available, needs their head checked.

Valhallapt · 19-05-2021 03:21PM

gozunda wrote: »

All EU countries have travel restrictions.

Yes and they are proportionate. I am not aware of any country preventing its citizens from leaving. Irelands restrictions are disproportionate.

gozunda wrote: »

"Your right" to travel for essential reasons is not prohibited here.

Yes but "My Right" under the Irish constitution and various EU treaties including Maastricht is being disproportionality restricted, under exceptional powers Dáil Eireann restricted my movements at various times during the pandemic for health concerns, I'm ok with them doing that. 2Km, 5Km, 20Km inter county are all ok with me as they treat every EU citizen equally. Under those restrictions it is justifiable to not allow intra EU travel. But all those restrictions are gone, now we're left with an arbitrary policy which discriminates against different parts of the EU. whilst I am free to get on a bus to donegal and sit in a bookies all day, I am not allowed from travelling to my home with my wife and kids.

By you logic if we start to fine children for going into a classroom, we are not denying their right to an education.

gozunda wrote: »

If you genuinely have a "second home" - then that would be considered essential travel.

air quotes...., what if the member of "gardai" has the same mentality as you, the SI is ambiguous and open to interpretation, there for I am open to being unjustly sent a FPN because the "gardai" don't take my word that I have a "home" in Portugal or that my travels there are essential.

19-05-2021 03:28PM

Valhallapt wrote: »

Yes and they are proportionate. I am not aware of any country preventing its citizens from leaving. Irelands restrictions are disproportionate.

Yes but "My Right" under the Irish constitution and various EU treaties including Maastricht is being disproportionality restricted, under exceptional powers Dáil Eireann restricted my movements at various times during the pandemic for health concerns, I'm ok with them doing that. 2Km, 5Km, 20Km inter county are all ok with me as they treat every EU citizen equally. Under those restrictions it is justifiable to not allow intra EU travel. But all those restrictions are gone, now we're left with an arbitrary policy which discriminates against different parts of the EU. whilst I am free to get on a bus to donegal and sit in a bookies all day, I am not allowed from travelling to my home with my wife and kids.

All European countries have different laws, but you know that.
If you are moving to your home, then there is nothing stopping you. If you are going on your holidays, then there are restrictions.
Every European country have restrictions on non essential travel.

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

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