Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

17-05-2021 05:43PM

Lumen wrote: »

The source of your concerns is some uncited Twitter post by a loon. .

Incorrect. I went to the source reports of an official European body and looked at them quite closely for some time.
That may be inconvenient for your bias, but there you go.

revelman · 17-05-2021 05:52PM

I think contrarianism is important and I would see myself has having contrarian positions on some issues. Without contrarians, we would not have made significant progress in science and we’d still probably be living in primitive societies. But I’m certainly not a permanent contrarian.

The permanent contrarian’s fallacy is that the contrary position is always the truth, that the majority view is always the wrong one. That is patently absurd. More often than such contrarians care to admit, the majority might be correct and the contrarian might be wrong. Very often the majority can see the wool that the contrarian says has been pulled over their eyes. The majority has simply pushed that wool to one side because it is not very important.

Lumen · 17-05-2021 05:52PM

isha wrote: »

Incorrect. I went to the source reports of an official European body and looked at them quite closely for some time.
That may be inconvenient for your bias, but there you go.

These are your exact words:

isha wrote: »

I saw it mentioned on Twitter and the photo in the tweet had EudraVigilance - which to be frank sounds weird and like a made-up name.

Therefore, the source of your concens was a Tweet. Please provide the link to that Tweet.

Spreading anti-vax nonsense is dangerous. The last major wave of anti-vax that I'm aware of was triggered by Andrew Wakefield's fraudulent and since-debunked "research" on links to autism, the local impact of which is described here:

https://www.medicalindependent.ie/the-great-fraud-of-andrew-wakefield/

Measles vaccine uptake had fallen in the area to 70 per cent as a result of Wakefield’s proclamations. Some 335 children attended the hospital with proven measles, 111 were admitted to hospital, 13 required intensive care, and three sadly died. Avoidable measles, misery and mortality.

That's what anti-vax does. Spare your arbitrary contrarianism for topics where your ill-informed and unqualified misrepresentations won't result in people dying.

plodder · 17-05-2021 05:54PM

paw patrol wrote: »

My opinion - I never really bothered much with this thread before before today.

It's chock a block with people absolute mad for the vaccine - as is their right tbf but it's a fairly unbalanced thread. You are wasting your time posting that stuff here. Nobody wants to know - you are talking to the wall or preaching to the converted - take your pick.

More than one poster today said words to the effect "stick it in me, whatever it is" . All they want is the vaccine and they want it NOW . The hysteria in the media and the restrictions has people desperate for the jab unless I stumbled into a thread exclusively for sick people.

you're better served relaxing and owning your own decision.
Flake out in the sun.

"stick it in me, whatever it is" - so long as "it" is an EMA approved vaccine. Bit of a difference there.

In fairness too, the poster asked the question and even though it's been asked loads of times before, they got a reasoned answer. Hundreds of millions of people have got these vaccines already. Some percentage of people will trip and fall when leaving the vaccine centre. That's not the vaccine's fault , just like some percentage will get sick after getting the vaccine, and that's not the vaccine's fault either except for this rare blot clotting business which is actually caused by the vaccine.

JRant · 17-05-2021 05:59PM

Skygord wrote: »

From the Guardian's Coronavirus blog at 17:23

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/may/17/coronavirus-live-news-parts-of-uk-ease-lockdown-despite-india-variant-fears-4-out-of-5-in-japan-oppose-olympics?page=with:block-60a297f38f08e757a7357a1e#block-60a297f38f08e757a7357a1e

50 million doses in a little over a month. Considering how unreliable they have been to date, I'd say that's pie in the sky stuff. Starting to look like J&J will be about as much use as Moderna here, which is to say, not a lot.

17-05-2021 06:08PM

revelman wrote: »

I think contrarianism is important and I would see myself has having contrarian positions on some issues. Without contrarians, we would not have made significant progress in science and we’d still probably be living in primitive societies. But I’m certainly not a permanent contrarian.

The permanent contrarian’s fallacy is that the contrary position is always the truth, that the majority view is always the wrong one. That is patently absurd. More often than such contrarians care to admit, the majority might be correct and the contrarian might be wrong. Very often the majority can see the wool that the contrarian says has been pulled over their eyes. The majority has simply pushed that wool to one side because it is not very important.

True true. But contrarians do not all insist they are infallible. Keeling over at the first line of attack on a contrarian position, or indeed the second, third or fourth, etc, would hardly be very brave or useful though, would it. Contrary positions are as you say important. And therefore one's brain must be trained to entertain them, for however long they exist.
I am very open to the vaccines being manna from Heaven, albeit from a personal point of view after sufficient time has passed for accurate and longer term data to be scientifically assessed.

In the meantime I feel free to observe other data that may not be palatable to the majority.

IRISHSPORTSGUY · 17-05-2021 06:08PM

JRant wrote: »

50 million doses in a little over a month. Considering how unreliable they have been to date, I'd say that's pie in the sky stuff. Starting to look like J&J will be about as much use as Moderna here, which is to say, not a lot.

There is supposed to be a lot of vaccine stockpiled at Emergent Biosolutions. When the FDA give the factory the green light again is anybody's guess though.

Gile_na_gile · 17-05-2021 06:17PM

Of more relevance than the immortality-gate distraction is that Germany is going straight to available to all over 16 years on June 7th (in Guardian live blog). If we were to do the same around then, all this prioritisation debate would recede.

Germany will scrap its Covid vaccine priority list and start offering jabs to all adults from June 7, the country’s health minister Jens Spahn said.
The move means anyone aged 16 and up will be eligible for a vaccine in Germany, scrapping the existing priority criteria based on age, jobs and pre-existing medical conditions, AFP reports. “We have agreed to lift the priority system on June 7... in doctor’s practices, among company doctors and in vaccination centres,” Spahn said after talks with Germany’s 16 regional health ministers.

SJFly · 17-05-2021 06:18PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In the meantime I feel free to observe other data that may not be palatable to the majority.

I think you're still missing the point. The raw data is pretty much meaningless, without thorough analysis. Linking to the raw data and calling it unpalatable is just scaremongering.

JRant · 17-05-2021 06:24PM

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

There is supposed to be a lot of vaccine stockpiled at Emergent Biosolutions. When the FDA give the factory the green light again is anybody's guess though.

They've been looking at that for nearly a month now already. Easy to know it doesn't affect the US judging by the speed of their response.

greenfarm · 17-05-2021 06:30PM

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

Of more relevance than the immortality-gate distraction is that Germany is going straight to available to all over 16 years on June 7th (in Guardian live blog). If we were to do the same around then, all this prioritisation debate would recede.

I think it's going to happen very soon here, my father 57 got his jab last week and the nurse said thanks for coming, alot of no shows today, good you came.

Demand is dropping hence the mad media campaign going on.

Wouldn't be suprised to see incentives being offered in July to get stragglers, supervalu vouchers etc

17-05-2021 06:37PM

SJFly wrote: »

I think you're still missing the point. The raw data is pretty much meaningless, without thorough analysis. Linking to the raw data and calling it unpalatable is just scaremongering.

Ignoring it completely may prove unwise.
Time will tell.

17-05-2021 06:43PM

Greystones appointments tomorrow have got a text changing their vaccine from pfizer to Astrazenica

Has that happened before?

Lucas Hood · 17-05-2021 06:46PM

Germany to open up vaccinations to all on June 7

https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-india-coronavirus-pandemic-race-and-ethnicity-business-12cdfacd98e57eea03a52a78c87b9e6b

Jim_Hodge · 17-05-2021 06:50PM

greenfarm wrote: »

I think it's going to happen very soon here, my father 57 got his jab last week and the nurse said thanks for coming, alot of no shows today, good you came.

Demand is dropping hence the mad media campaign going on.

Wouldn't be suprised to see incentives being offered in July to get stragglers, supervalu vouchers etc

Funny if demand is dropping that many are waiting almost three weeks for an appointment.

Why register and not cancel when texted an appointment if you don't want it?

Godot. · 17-05-2021 06:59PM

JRant wrote: »

They've been looking at that for nearly a month now already. Easy to know it doesn't affect the US judging by the speed of their response.

This is promising news. Those doses the US are giving to the world won't concern Europe because America will probably give them to India etc, but it suggests clearance is due soon for vaccines from the Emergent site. Europe will hopefully get its contracted doses.

https://twitter.com/ZacharyBrennan/status/1394328115422367744

stephenjmcd · 17-05-2021 07:02PM

Godot. wrote: »

This is promising news. Those doses the US are giving to the world won't concern Europe because America will probably give them to India etc, but it suggests clearance is due soon for vaccines from the Emergent site. Europe will hopefully get its contracted doses.

https://twitter.com/ZacharyBrennan/status/1394328115422367744

If its from Emergent it is big news for us. Will hopefully fulfill the J&J delviery in Q2 as you'd assume they'll be released quickly after

Cork Lass · 17-05-2021 07:08PM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Funny if demand is dropping that many are waiting almost three weeks for an appointment.

Why register and not cancel when texted an appointment if you don't want it?

I was vaccinated at one of the MVC's in Cork this morning. Whilst walking through the car park I heard them over the walkie talkie saying to check anyone waiting in cars (I assume those that had arrived too early) and to send them in as there was absolutely no queue in the centre. My appointment was for 11.15 am and i was seen a few minutes early and out the door at 11.25. Definitely some people must not be turning up.

IRISHSPORTSGUY · 17-05-2021 07:10PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

If its from Emergent it is big news for us. Will hopefully fulfill the J&J delviery in Q2 as you'd assume they'll be released quickly after

Wouldn't be surprised if it's a shipment of 500k in the final week of June, like a college kid submitting an assignment at the last minute

17-05-2021 07:15PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

True true. But contrarians do not all insist they are infallible. Keeling over at the first line of attack on a contrarian position, or indeed the second, third or fourth, etc, would hardly be very brave or useful though, would it. Contrary positions are as you say important. And therefore one's brain must be trained to entertain them, for however long they exist.
I am very open to the vaccines being manna from Heaven, albeit from a personal point of view after sufficient time has passed for accurate and longer term data to be scientifically assessed.

In the meantime I feel free to observe other data that may not be palatable to the majority.

And reap the benefit of everyone else getting vaccinated while you convince yourself you are one of the enlightened few

17-05-2021 07:25PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ignoring it completely may prove unwise.
Time will tell.

It’s not ignored. It’s examined thoroughly and if something is off it’s reported. It is so thorough that within weeks of the AZ vaccine program starting the CVST issue was detected even though its a 1 in 100,000 event.

What you are continually and convenient ignoring is that everything post vaccine is reportable through the system. Sore arm, headache, unrelated migraine, hayfever, allergic reaction due to other medications, and yes every death that cannot be immediately ruled out as not been vaccine related which is most. The raw data is what you referenced with all in. The continued daily grind of weeding out the minor acceptable sore arms and mild temperatures is ongoing in regulatory bodies daily, looking for the rare events that may be concerning and then comparing to the rates of those same conditions in general.

One example is occurrence of myocarditis in people who have received the Pfizer vaccine. Yes there have been many cases, probably triggered by the immune response to the vaccine, but at numbers you would expect in the background and a far lower levels that those seen in people who get Covid.

17-05-2021 07:27PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And reap the Brno of everyone else getting vaccinated while you convince yourself you are one of the enlightened few

If you are happy to take the vaccine or any medications for that matter, then do so, and be content. I am happy for you to be contented. While it is not a sterilising vaccine, meaning you may still to some degree catch, incubate and transmit Covid 19, you will nonetheless be largely protected from serious illness, according to the manufacturers. Beyond your own personal choices in this matter, which I fully support, do not belabour me or others with emotional blackmail.

Jellybaby_1 · 17-05-2021 07:30PM

I'm just curious to know if my relatives are the only ones still waiting after a month registered to get their first appointment for vaccine. My family members are 68/69 with health issues and have not been called yet. They have called HSE about it and told a pack of lies, i.e. "you'll get an appointment within three days". Hasn't happened! Are you or someone you know still waiting? Everyone else we know in their 60's has had their first vaccine and now they're giving appointments to the 50's, one we know has no health issues! My relatives have been isolating since the first lockdown and are pretty stressed now and feeling this just can't be right.

P.S. I was advised by a Mod to post this in the Vaccine Megathread. In reply to Astrofool who responded to my original post, my relatives registered by phone, they are mobile and able to travel to a vaccination centre.

17-05-2021 07:32PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s not ignored. It’s examined thoroughly and if something is off it’s reported. It is so thorough that within weeks of the AZ vaccine program starting the CVST issue was detected even though its a 1 in 100,000 event.

What you are continually and convenient ignoring is that everything post vaccine is reportable through the system. Sore arm, headache, unrelated migraine, hayfever, allergic reaction due to other medications, and yes every death that cannot be immediately ruled out as not been vaccine related which is most. The raw data is what you referenced with all in. The continued daily grind of weeding out the minor acceptable sore arms and mild temperatures is ongoing in regulatory bodies daily, looking for the rare events that may be concerning and then comparing to the rates of those same conditions in general.

One example is occurrence of myocarditis in people who have received the Pfizer vaccine. Yes there have been many cases, probably triggered by the immune response to the vaccine, but at numbers you would expect in the background and a far lower levels that those seen in people who get Covid.

Regarding presently available covid vaccines the facts remain that the very vaccinations that millions have already been given have since been discontinued in several countries, including Norway and Denmark, and the EU will discontinue the purchase of them from June. These changes have taken place in a short time. Other changes may also take place, as yet unforeseen. This cannot be denied.

Lumen · 17-05-2021 07:34PM

isha wrote: »

Regarding presently available covid vaccines the facts remain that the very vaccinations that millions have already been given have since been discontinued in several countries, including Norway and Denmark, and the EU will discontinue the purchase of them from June. These changes have taken place in a short time. Other changes may also take place, as yet unforeseen. This cannot be denied.

Neither can your freeloading on the immunity of others

17-05-2021 07:35PM

Jellybaby_1 wrote: »

I'm just curious to know if my relatives are the only ones still waiting after a month registered to get their first appointment for vaccine. My family members are 68/69 with health issues and have not been called yet. They have called HSE about it and told a pack of lies, i.e. "you'll get an appointment within three days". Hasn't happened! Are you or someone you know still waiting? Everyone else we know in their 60's has had their first vaccine and now they're giving appointments to the 50's, one we know has no health issues! My relatives have been isolating since the first lockdown and are pretty stressed now and feeling this just can't be right.

P.S. I was advised by a Mod to post this in the Vaccine Megathread. In reply to Astrofool who responded to my original post, my relatives registered by phone, they are mobile and able to travel to a vaccination centre.

Jellybaby that's not acceptable at all - especially when you read about all the people in their 50s getting appts.
I'd continue to phone the GP and HSE several times a day and let them know that you'll be continuing to phone until they're vaccinated.

JRant · 17-05-2021 07:43PM

Godot. wrote: »

This is promising news. Those doses the US are giving to the world won't concern Europe because America will probably give them to India etc, but it suggests clearance is due soon for vaccines from the Emergent site. Europe will hopefully get its contracted doses.

https://twitter.com/ZacharyBrennan/status/1394328115422367744

80 million doses is pathetic really.

iamwhoiam · 17-05-2021 07:43PM

Jellybaby_1 wrote: »

I'm just curious to know if my relatives are the only ones still waiting after a month registered to get their first appointment for vaccine. My family members are 68/69 with health issues and have not been called yet. They have called HSE about it and told a pack of lies, i.e. "you'll get an appointment within three days". Hasn't happened! Are you or someone you know still waiting? Everyone else we know in their 60's has had their first vaccine and now they're giving appointments to the 50's, one we know has no health issues! My relatives have been isolating since the first lockdown and are pretty stressed now and feeling this just can't be right.

P.S. I was advised by a Mod to post this in the Vaccine Megathread. In reply to Astrofool who responded to my original post, my relatives registered by phone, they are mobile and able to travel to a vaccination centre.

They could try to register online on the portal maybe ? I have heard of someone who had registered by phone getting lost in thr system . No harm in registering online now as you had no satisfaction by phone

I am in 65-70 age group as are all my friends and we are all done 3 weeks now
Its not good enough for your relatives

Panrich · 17-05-2021 07:43PM

Jellybaby_1 wrote: »

I'm just curious to know if my relatives are the only ones still waiting after a month registered to get their first appointment for vaccine. My family members are 68/69 with health issues and have not been called yet. They have called HSE about it and told a pack of lies, i.e. "you'll get an appointment within three days". Hasn't happened! Are you or someone you know still waiting? Everyone else we know in their 60's has had their first vaccine and now they're giving appointments to the 50's, one we know has no health issues! My relatives have been isolating since the first lockdown and are pretty stressed now and feeling this just can't be right.

P.S. I was advised by a Mod to post this in the Vaccine Megathread. In reply to Astrofool who responded to my original post, my relatives registered by phone, they are mobile and able to travel to a vaccination centre.

I agree with the other poster. I'd be ringing your GP morning noon and night for an update.

Call me Al · 17-05-2021 07:44PM

Jellybaby_1 wrote: »

I'm just curious to know if my relatives are the only ones still waiting after a month registered to get their first appointment for vaccine. My family members are 68/69 with health issues and have not been called yet. They have called HSE about it and told a pack of lies, i.e. "you'll get an appointment within three days". Hasn't happened! Are you or someone you know still waiting? Everyone else we know in their 60's has had their first vaccine and now they're giving appointments to the 50's, one we know has no health issues! My relatives have been isolating since the first lockdown and are pretty stressed now and feeling this just can't be right.

P.S. I was advised by a Mod to post this in the Vaccine Megathread. In reply to Astrofool who responded to my original post, my relatives registered by phone, they are mobile and able to travel to a vaccination centre.

Are they the only ones in their age range amongst their friends who are left like this?

There was a problem in Meath wrt registration of postcodes and it meant that people of a similar age weren't receiving appointments. It took some local councillors to intervene, kick up a bit of fuss, and get to the bottom of the problem over the weekend to get it resolved last night.
Maybe there's an update on their portal booking?
But you're right this isn't OK.

Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

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