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Is Gerry Adams the greatest leader in all of Irish history

  • 13-05-2021 10:54pm
    #1
    Barry904
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 59 ✭✭


    Gerry Adams led SF for decades, brought a party from nothing to the most popular party in the Republic of Ireland and the second most popular party in the north with SF being the only all Ireland party.

    To me and I'd say a good half the country would consider Gerry Adams matched only with the likes of Nelson Mandela or Gandhi.


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Comments

  • #2
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    One of the greatest leaders in Irish history? Certainly, a brilliant statesman? I would say so. The greatest? Not so sure really.

    Himself and McGuiness were a great team.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • #3
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,326 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    What has he actually accomplished?
    * 30 years of bloodshed with over 3000 dead - tick
    * No unified Ireland - tick
    * popularity because he gave up the above bloodshed - tick
    * a significant party in NI because... DUP - tick


  • #4
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,017 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Well, he has signally failed to acheive his and his party's principal objective, which is a united and independent Irish republic.

    And the policies which he and his movement pursued for decades (at a time some boardies may be too young to recall) were conspicuously the opposite of policies that might have united the Irish people. It's telling that the DUP have done, by ineptitude, more in three years to advance the cause of a united Ireland unity than Sinn Fein managed to do by policy in thirty.

    So, he has some impressive achievements. He - eventually - led his party away from the bullet and to the ballot, which is welcome, and that has paid electoral dividends (though, NB, SF have yet to win a majority in a general election, either north or south). His party has never been in government in the south, and its achievements in government in the north are, um, limited. Greatest leader in all of Irish history? Nope.


  • #5
    Robert McGrath
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭Robert McGrath


    Not fit to lace John Hume’s boots


  • #6
    Penfailed
    Registered Users Posts: 7,462 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Barry904 wrote: »
    Is Gerry Adams the greatest leader in all of Irish history?

    To me and I'd say a good half the country would consider Gerry Adams matched only with the likes of Nelson Mandela or Gandhi.

    No.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



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  • #7
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,853 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Barry904 wrote: »
    Gerry Adams led SF for decades, brought a party from nothing to the most popular party in the Republic of Ireland and the second most popular party in the north with SF being the only all Ireland party.

    To me and I'd say a good half the country would consider Gerry Adams matched only with the likes of Nelson Mandela or Gandhi.

    I don't think that Gandhi would be happy being compared to Adams or Mandela, both led terrorist groups.

    As for Gerry's achievements. The last election down here was a protest vote against FF/FG not a vote for SF, if SF had thought that they stood a chance they would have ran more candidates. The North is still a highly divided country.. And there will never be a united Republic of Ireland, the Island will eventually be united because of demographics but it won't be what SF promised it's supporters.


  • #8
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 596 ✭[Deleted User]


    No, he is a terrorist, led a terrorist organisation for years.


  • #9
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,017 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Del2005 wrote: »
    I don't think that Gandhi would be happy being compared to Adams or Mandela, both led terrorist groups.
    Factcheck: The claim that Mandela ever led a terrorist group would be, ahem, strongly contested. You'd need to adopt a very expansive definition of terrorism to make it stand up. (As, indeed, the South African government of the time did. But you don't necessarily want to be togging out with them.)


  • #10
    Marco23d
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 146 ✭✭Marco23d


    Barry904 wrote: »
    Gerry Adams led SF for decades, brought a party from nothing to the most popular party in the Republic of Ireland and the second most popular party in the north with SF being the only all Ireland party.

    To me and I'd say a good half the country would consider Gerry Adams matched only with the likes of Nelson Mandela or Gandhi.

    I would have to agree, there aren't many politicians who have done quite as much for this country (at least in the last hundred years or so) as Gerry Adams I would certainly put him on the top 3 at the least.


  • #11
    Dempo1
    Registered Users Posts: 26,916 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Clearly a slow news day and no, he certainly was not, Quite extraordinary his name and Nelson Mandela mentioned in the same sentence. Adams was by all accounts Cunning and Devious, two excellent qualities for any political leader, does this equate to greatness, I think not.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • #12
    Marco23d
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 146 ✭✭Marco23d


    Dempo1 wrote: »
    Clearly a slow news day and no, he certainly was not, Quite extraordinary his name and Nelson Mandela mentioned in the same sentence. Adams was by all accounts Cunning and Devious, two excellent qualities for any political leader, does this equate to greatness, I think not.

    Nelson Mandela seemed to hold him in very high regard, he was chosen as the "guard of honor" for his funeral.


  • #13
    Barry904
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 59 ✭✭Barry904


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Factcheck: The claim that Mandela ever led a terrorist group would be, ahem, strongly contested. You'd need to adopt a very expansive definition of terrorism to make it stand up. (As, indeed, the South African government of the time did. But you don't necessarily want to be togging out with them.)

    It could also be strongly contested that Gerry Adams ever led a terrorist group also, some would say he led a team of feedom fighters against all odds in their fight against British imperialism.


  • #14
    touts
    Registered Users Posts: 6,430 ✭✭✭touts


    Barry904 wrote: »
    Gerry Adams led SF for decades, brought a party from nothing to the most popular party in the Republic of Ireland and the second most popular party in the north with SF being the only all Ireland party.

    To me and I'd say a good half the country would consider Gerry Adams matched only with the likes of Nelson Mandela or Gandhi.

    And allegedly as a member of the Sinn Fein IRA Army Council he also oversaw the murder of innocent men and women who were accused of talking to the police.

    I know he denies membership if the SF-IRA army council but if it quacks like a duck.....


  • #15
    Dempo1
    Registered Users Posts: 26,916 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Marco23d wrote: »
    Nelson Mandela seemed to hold him in very high regard, he was chosen as the "guard of honor" for his funeral.

    Not at all sure that equates to Adams being one of Irelands greatest political leaders.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • #16
    Barry904
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 59 ✭✭Barry904


    Dempo1 wrote: »
    Not at all sure that equates to Adams being one of Irelands greatest political leaders.

    You said you were surprised to see them in the "same sentence" when they were two great leaders who both held each other in very high regard.


  • #17
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    Murderer of innocents. That sort of negates any good points for me.


  • #18
    Barry904
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 59 ✭✭Barry904


    SmartinMartin wrote: »
    Murderer of innocents. That sort of negates any good points for me.

    Do you think the same of Mandela?


  • #19
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    Barry904 wrote: »
    Do you think the same of Mandela?

    What's he got to do with this thread? Whataboutery indeed.


  • #20
    MaccaTacca
    Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭MaccaTacca


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    What has he actually accomplished?
    * 30 years of bloodshed with over 3000 dead - tick
    * No unified Ireland - tick
    * popularity because he gave up the above bloodshed - tick
    * a significant party in NI because... DUP - tick

    And what exactly have FFG and the DUP achieved?


  • #21
    Barry904
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 59 ✭✭Barry904


    SmartinMartin wrote: »
    What's he got to do with this thread? Whataboutery indeed.

    The point is that most great political leaders who have fought against oppression all in one way or another have the blood of innocents on their hands.

    I was asking if you apply the same logic to other leaders or is it just Gerry due to all the propaganda against him that you have swallowed through the years.


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  • #22
    corks finest
    Registered Users Posts: 8,625 ✭✭✭corks finest


    Barry904 wrote: »
    Gerry Adams led SF for decades, brought a party from nothing to the most popular party in the Republic of Ireland and the second most popular party in the north with SF being the only all Ireland party.

    To me and I'd say a good half the country would consider Gerry Adams matched only with the likes of Nelson Mandela or Gandhi.
    FFS? He wouldn’t wipe Tom Barry’s ass


  • #23
    Marco23d
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 146 ✭✭Marco23d


    The disrepect on this thread by a miniority of posters to one of Irelands greatest men is shocking.


  • #24
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    Barry904 wrote: »
    The point is that most great political leaders who have fought against oppression all in one way or another have the blood of innocents on their hands.

    I was asking if you apply the same logic to other leaders or is it just Gerry due to all the propaganda against him that you have swallowed through the years.

    This thread is about Gerry though, not anyone else. Keep it on track.


  • #25
    touts
    Registered Users Posts: 6,430 ✭✭✭touts


    MaccaTacca wrote: »
    And what exactly have FFG and the DUP achieved?

    I love the way the sinnerbots like to use FFG but get all hot and bothered when someone uses SFIRA.


  • #26
    Dempo1
    Registered Users Posts: 26,916 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Barry904 wrote: »
    You said you were surprised to see them in the "same sentence" when they were two great leaders who both held each other in very high regard.

    Roosevelt once held Stalin in high regard, I'll say no more

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • #27
    Marco23d
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 146 ✭✭Marco23d


    Dempo1 wrote: »
    Roosevelt once held Stalin in high regard, I'll say no more

    Probably held him in high regard for doing most of the fighting during WW2.


  • #28
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    MaccaTacca wrote: »
    And what exactly have FFG and the DUP achieved?

    Wow, this takes whataboutery to a whole new level!!


  • #29
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,017 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Barry904 wrote: »
    It could also be strongly contested that Gerry Adams ever led a terrorist group also, some would say he led a team of feedom fighters against all odds in their fight against British imperialism.
    You could say that, but that would not rebut a claim that Adams led a terrorist group, since a group of freedom fighters struggling against imperialism could — obviously — employ terrorist tactics in that struggle.

    The point is that Mandela was never the leader of a movement which employed terrorist tactics unless, as I say, you have a very broad definition of "terrorist", whereas Adams certainly was.

    Mandela was in a leadership position before 1962 (at which time the movement engaged in sabotaging government and military targets but did not attack civilians) and after 1990 (at which time the ANC was in negotiation with the government) but not in between. You want to say that Mandela led a terrorist group; you have to point to a group that engaged in terrorism while Mandela led it. You can do that very easily for Gerry Adams; not so much for Mandela.


  • #30
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Gerry Adams, arguably the greatest leader in all of Irish history within his own tribe, a strong leader, unflinching and dedicated to the cause, totally driven in by his beliefs, while at the same time being an utterly detestable human being. Every time I saw him on the TV carrying a bombers coffin (draped in the Tricolour) I just wanted him to die. Will always be the greatest though, to his own tribe......


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  • #31
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,140 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    His only achievement was to talk the majority of the terrorists he lead into stopping a pointless campaign of violence. The only country his political party had any hand in running is a failed state, propped up by the financial contributions of the very same people that he lead that campaign of violence against. A good man? Probably. Ireland's Greatest Ever Leader? He's probably not even in the top 5.


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