Is Gerry Adams the greatest leader in all of Irish history

myfreespirit

Is Gerry Adams the greatest leader in all of Irish history?

Quite simply, No.

He trails behind a long list of extraordinary men and women throughout the history of this island.
Alone in the twentieth century, a large number of Irish people tower above him - people like T.K. Whitaker, Seán Lemass, W.T. Cosgrave, John Hume, patriots who served their people well, building and advancing the nation.



Mr. Adams was a victim of his circumstances and acted accordingly. His contribution to the Irish people throughout his life is debatable.

PeadarCo

MaccaTacca wrote: »

And what exactly have FFG and the DUP achieved?

FF and FG lead governments have turned a poor European back water into one of the most prosperous countries in the world.

The DUP as another poster has pointed out have actually done far more to bring about a united Ireland than any other political party in the history of Northern Ireland including Sinn Fein. Their actions over the last few years particularly in relation to Brexit have not been the actions of a unionist party in practice. Going into coalition with an English nationalitist backed government was always going to backfire.

Adams can't be held up as the greatest Irish person of all time as it lifelong goal has been to achieve a united Ireland. Its arguable through her actions Arlene Foster has done more for a united Ireland than Adams. As the UK governments showed over the centuries terrorising people into submission is not effective long term.

Victor

Barry904 wrote: »

SF being the only all Ireland party.

Ahem, so does the Green Party, People Before Profit and possibly others.

Patser

Victor wrote: »

Ahem, so does the Green Party, People Before Profit and possibly others.

Also don't PBP have an MLA?

Edit: your edit beat my reply

boardise

If we're talking support for terrorism, lying and hypocrisy -then Mr.Adams would indeed take top rank among the venerated pantheon referred to.

RandomViewer

MaccaTacca wrote: »

And what exactly have FFG and the DUP achieved?

Mountains of brown envelopes and the ability to find the ugliest ,stupidest and most ignorant people and put them into positions they are totally unfit for,

RandomViewer

myfreespirit wrote: »

Is Gerry Adams the greatest leader in all of Irish history?

Quite simply, No.

He trails behind a long list of extraordinary men and women throughout the history of this island.
Alone in the twentieth century, a large number of Irish people tower above him - people like T.K. Whitaker, Seán Lemass, W.T. Cosgrave, John Hume, patriots who served their people well, building and advancing the nation.



Mr. Adams was a victim of his circumstances and acted accordingly. His contribution to the Irish people throughout his life is debatable.

Cosgrave? Jesus wept,

RandomViewer

He was a so so party leader, dont think we've ever produced any truly great leaders, politics as a whole seems to attract people with poor traits so unlikely to get much in the line of quality,
When you see the likes of Eamon Ryan and Michael Noonan reaching the position of party leader the bar is obviously lying on the floor

astrofool

A war time leader whose ego kept him in the position for far longer than he should have been, the party he led still has a murky structure that hasn't been democratically elected. Never took ownership of his past deeds either.

RandomViewer

astrofool wrote: »

A war time leader whose ego kept him in the position for far longer than he should have been, the party he led still has a murky structure that hasn't been democratically elected. Never took ownership of his past deeds either.

Adams?, Haughey?, Ahern? All stayed too long, FG wandered about with befuddled Garrett for years only to replace him with a two legged donkey, Greens, from the irredeemably pathetic too the criminally insane, Labour, its like a guess the cowpat contest for leader, mediocrity rules in Irish politics

Barry904

He is without a doubt up there with the greats like Connolly, Wolfe tone and Bobby Sands.

RandomViewer

Barry904 wrote: »

He is without a doubt up there with the greats like Connolly, Wolfe tone and Bobby Sands.

Sands wasn't a leader, Connolly more akin to Brid Smith than Gerry, always wondered if Wolfe Tone had a blander name would he be as well remembered, Father Murphy and Henry Joy McCracken seem to get less notice

myfreespirit

Barry904 wrote: »

He is without a doubt up there with the greats like Connolly, Wolfe tone and Bobby Sands.

The sub-forum is named Political Theory, so one might expect claims to be substantiated by relevant facts, comparisons and contrasts between Adams and the pantheon of leaders throughout Irish history.

Any facts, theories or other information to back up your claim?

FileNotFound

Robert McGrath wrote: »

Not fit to lace John Hume’s boots

Prefect response.

Barry904

FileNotFound wrote: »

Prefect response.

What a joke Hume only had any credit because he was holstered up by the Brits and Irish establishment as the only aternative to the IRA.

Hume was a complete and utter joke I seen a video of him on youtube where he was going on about Catholic rights and the whole place was laughing and cracking jokes at him.

It was best for Hume to swing the old peace line as he made a ton of money doing what he did, the man was minted it was not to make a more controversial approach and just ramble on about peace all day, a large amount of the population clearly were not going to sit on their hands and wait for Hume to talk everyone around.

The only concessions Hume got in the early days were because the IRA during negotiations insisted they just spoke with Hume to sort out the civil rights matters as he was the only political party at the time.

There was nothing unique about Hume, he was an ordinary man anyone could have done what he did.

Penfailed

Barry904 wrote: »

What a joke Hume only had any credit because he was holstered up by the Brits and Irish establishment as the only aternative to the IRA.

Hume was a complete and utter joke I seen a video of him on youtube where he was going on about Catholic rights and the whole place was laughing and cracking jokes at him.

It was best for Hume to swing the old peace line as he made a ton of money doing what he did, the man was minted it was not to make a more controversial approach and just ramble on about peace all day, a large amount of the population clearly were not going to sit on their hands and wait for Hume to talk everyone around.

The only concessions Hume got in the early days were because the IRA during negotiations insisted they just spoke with Hume to sort out the civil rights matters as he was the only political party at the time.

There was nothing unique about Hume, he was an ordinary man anyone could have done what he did.

...and Adams isn't minted? Anyone could have done what Adams did too.

FileNotFound

Penfailed wrote: »

...and Adams isn't minted? Anyone could have done what Adams did too.

Many have done what Adams did, drive an ideal and fail to achieve it.

Few have done what Hume did.

Says it all really.

myfreespirit

Barry904 wrote: »

What a joke Hume only had any credit because he was holstered up by the Brits and Irish establishment as the only aternative to the IRA.

Hume was a complete and utter joke I seen a video of him on youtube where he was going on about Catholic rights and the whole place was laughing and cracking jokes at him.

It was best for Hume to swing the old peace line as he made a ton of money doing what he did, the man was minted it was not to make a more controversial approach and just ramble on about peace all day, a large amount of the population clearly were not going to sit on their hands and wait for Hume to talk everyone around.

The only concessions Hume got in the early days were because the IRA during negotiations insisted they just spoke with Hume to sort out the civil rights matters as he was the only political party at the time.

There was nothing unique about Hume, he was an ordinary man anyone could have done what he did.

What an ignorant and crass post. Have you any understanding of history at all?
John Hume was a democrat through and through, a man who spent his life working for peace in Ireland, a man whose perseverance in the face of IRA atrocities lead to the Good Friday Agreement.
Adams on the other hand was, for years promoting a policy of the "Armalite and the ballot box", a man whose commitment to democracy was, and is wafer thin.
Have you no shame?

RandomViewer

myfreespirit wrote: »

What an ignorant and crass post. Have you any understanding of history at all?
John Hume was a democrat through and through, a man who spent his life working for peace in Ireland, a man whose perseverance in the face of IRA atrocities lead to the Good Friday Agreement.
Adams on the other hand was, for years promoting a policy of the "Armalite and the ballot box", a man whose commitment to democracy was, and is wafer thin.
Have you no shame?

Hume falls somewhere between both posts , like most politicians he had a large ego, not helped by a short temper and a wandering eye, despite this he did more towards peace on this island than anyone else, Adams ,Ahern and Blair helped, Bruton hindered

Mongfinder General

He hasn’t gone away you know. If McDonald ends up as leader of the biggest party (seats wise) In Dáil Éireann after the next election, I have no doubt that Adams will be calling the shots and pulling the strings from West Belfast. I also think that a lot of the people who vote for them will be in for a shock as there will be scores to settle across the board going back decades. I won’t be voting for them but there’s a part of me that wants to see the mayhem.

If by brilliant you include sanctioning the killing of a widow and leaving her children orphans at Christmas. Yeah, he's Numero uno.

Top man for defending Garda killers too.

He's streets ahead of the rest when it comes to protecting your paedophile brother too.

In terms of delivering on promises? I'll give him 50% for at least delivering a reasonable peace in the north. He does deserve his credit for that.

SF however never had any desire to be in power. It's far easier to sit on the other side shouting.

tdf7187

Peregrinus wrote: »

Factcheck: The claim that Mandela ever led a terrorist group would be, ahem, strongly contested. You'd need to adopt a very expansive definition of terrorism to make it stand up. (As, indeed, the South African government of the time did. But you don't necessarily want to be togging out with them.)

Well, that's simply not the case. The ANC was widely regarded, including by most Western countries, as a terrorist organisation at least in the earlier decades of its existence. Similarly to Sinn Fein, basically. Of course, those who want to demonise northern Irish republicans, portraying them as vermin simply for defending their communities don't like to acknowledge this, but it happens to be the historical truth. It is also the historical truth that the Troubles started when violent Loyalist mobs attacked nationalist civilians in the apartheid statelet that was Northern Ireland.

In fact, the ANC committed and sanctioned not just violent acts against the apartheid era SA government, but also violent acts that killed civilians, just as did PIRA (*)

Thatcher was at least consistent, always regarding both the ANC and IRA/SF as terrorists. Modern Tories, including our own native Tories, the FG party and FF under its present leader, want to idolise Mandela and the ANC while demonising Gerry Adams and anyone who votes for SF. It would be so hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic.

* https://www.nytimes.com/1988/08/21/world/anc-acts-to-halt-civilian-attacks.html

Barry904

Barry904 wrote: »

Hume was a complete and utter joke I seen a video of him on youtube where he was going on about Catholic rights and the whole place was laughing and cracking jokes at him.

Ah well, if you "seen" a YouTube video then we stand corrected.


Stand down folks, lest this man butcher the English language any further.

The Golden Miller

He's good, but no. The answer is Padraig Pearse. An unwavering unyielding spirit. The father and symbolic leader of Ireland

tdf7187

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

If by brilliant you include sanctioning the killing of a widow and leaving her children orphans at Christmas. Yeah, he's Numero uno.

Top man for defending Garda killers too.

He's streets ahead of the rest when it comes to protecting your paedophile brother too.

In terms of delivering on promises? I'll give him 50% for at least delivering a reasonable peace in the north. He does deserve his credit for that.

SF however never had any desire to be in power. It's far easier to sit on the other side shouting.

In terms of deathcount, Gerry is in the halfpenny place compared to Zanu FF/FG. The financial collapse killed hundreds due to suicide.

As for child abuse, the FF/FG run institutions facilitated mass child abuse on a monstrous scale over decades, as testified to in numerous investigations and inquiries.

tdf7187

RandomViewer wrote: »

Hume falls somewhere between both posts , like most politicians he had a large ego, not helped by a short temper and a wandering eye, despite this he did more towards peace on this island than anyone else, Adams ,Ahern and Blair helped, Bruton hindered

A fair assessment. Bruton was indeed a disaster.

The Golden Miller

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

If by brilliant you include sanctioning the killing of a widow and leaving her children orphans at Christmas. Yeah, he's Numero uno.

Top man for defending Garda killers too.

He's streets ahead of the rest when it comes to protecting your paedophile brother too.

In terms of delivering on promises? I'll give him 50% for at least delivering a reasonable peace in the north. He does deserve his credit for that.

SF however never had any desire to be in power. It's far easier to sit on the other side shouting.

"Garda killers"? Who exactly were Garda killers? You see this thrown about alot

No fan of sf but leading them/ira from where they were to their current position, and the credit owed him for the GFA and all after, you simply have to acknowledge his contribution to an enormous achievement

tdf7187

tdf7187 wrote: »

In terms of deathcount, Gerry is in the halfpenny place compared to Zanu FF/FG. The financial collapse killed hundreds due to suicide.

As for child abuse, the FF/FG run institutions facilitated mass child abuse on a monstrous scale over decades, as testified to in numerous investigations and inquiries.

Equating citizens dying in a democracy to people actively killed by terrorism is one of the laziest and most easily dismissed tropes consistently pulled up

blanch152

Barry904 wrote: »

Gerry Adams led SF for decades, brought a party from nothing to the most popular party in the Republic of Ireland and the second most popular party in the north with SF being the only all Ireland party.

To me and I'd say a good half the country would consider Gerry Adams matched only with the likes of Nelson Mandela or Gandhi.

Mandela and Gandhi are the wrong comparisons.

Adams can compare with the likes of Pol Pot, Stalin, Kim Il Sung, Hugo Chavez, etc, who brought poverty, misery, violence, death and division to their countries. However, it is a pale comparison, yes, he managed to make West Belfast the most impoverished part of the British Isles, and he managed to oversee the killing, raping, mutilation of many thousands of people, but thankfully, the extent of it was contained somewhat. That should not be taken as downplaying the terrible impact he had on innocent victims of his political actions.

A man to be forever reviled. He is the coldest, strangest, scariest person I have ever met.