Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

Chuck Norris 2021 · 13-05-2021 11:03AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I agree. However, we will have the majority of adults vaccinated by the end of June, yet Leo Varadkar is talking about no normal travel until next year. Why?

I can see the point of limiting travel to parts of the developing world. It'll take a lot longer to roll out the vaccination there. In addition, we have seen so many other viruses in other parts of the world, so maybe there's a higher risk of a scariant?

Lumen · 13-05-2021 11:04AM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

Surely by mid to late June we should be there? Even with one dose administered to most adults, and the at risk groups fully vaccinated? I think the main concern here is keeping hospital cases down, and we can see the remarkable change there already. Given that many EU countries are behind us on vaccination, I wonder what parameters they are using in terms of vaccination targets?

It depends on what you mean by "there". At 350k/doses/week we should hit around 80 doses/100 people by the end of June, which is about where the UK is now. They haven't completely unlocked yet; Israel unlocked at around 100 doses/100 people.

Do you expect we'll be bolder in policy than the UK? I can't see it. At no point have the Irish government or health authorities run ahead of the evidence. Oh wait, there was one point, and that was Christmas. So I can't see it happening again.

More likely they'll wait until end of July, by which time we'll be well into persuading the remaining 20-somethings to get vaccinated.

Whether they can fend off the EU for that long is anyone's guess.

13-05-2021 11:09AM

I see the portugese government have rolled out fairly comprehensive travel insurance for foreign holiday makers
A lot of resorts and hotels also doing this in other countries

They dont want you not travelling because your country makes insurance invalid by red listing theirs or all in irelands case at the moment

Chuck Norris 2021 · 13-05-2021 11:11AM

Lumen wrote: »

It depends on what you mean by "there". At 350k/doses/week we should hit around 80 doses/100 people by the end of June, which is about where the UK is now. They haven't completely unlocked yet; Israel unlocked at around 100 doses/100 people.

Do you expect we'll be bolder in policy than the UK? I can't see it. At no point have the Irish government or health authorities run ahead of the evidence. Oh wait, there was one point, and that was Christmas. So I can't see it happening again.

More likely they'll wait until end of July, by which time we'll be well into persuading the remaining 20-somethings to get vaccinated.

Whether they can fend off the EU for that long is anyone's guess.

The UK are opening up to travel in 4 days time. Yes it is a cautious approach, but it is a sensible starting point. Even the most die hard travel fans will admit that case numbers are still a bit high in some EU countries, and a few more weeks of a wait would be no harm. The issue at the moment is there is no plan. The measures already in place will be diluted by the north reopening. A sensible aproach would be opening up outbound travel next month, and maintaining testing and home quarantine from amber countries at a minimum. Christmas was a vastly different animal. Most of the travel was people returning home, straight into family homes.

gozunda · 13-05-2021 11:12AM

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

Actually taking today's offering from the indo with this one from yesterday about Irish people trapped abroad for weeks and months at a personal cost of thousands because of a false positive in their PCR test says to me that the ****wits in government probably *are* pushing for the green cert to be for vaccinated people only.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/frantic-calls-from-irish-people-trapped-abroad-as-they-repeatedly-received-residual-positive-covid-tests-40418573.html

Well I guess a green cert for vaccinated people would potentially stop this kind of thing happening?

I'm sorry but I did have to laugh at some of the stories who headed off on holiday to Lanzarote, Dubai etc against the current advisory for non essential travel viz.

There is a Government Advisory in operation against all non-essential international travel. Travel restrictions are in place to protect public health and to mitigate the risk of new variants of COVID-19 entering the country.

Who go on to contact the virus during their holiers and now can't get back but want the goverment to lay out the red carpet :pac:

Highlights are

Citizens in locations including Dubai and Lanzarote ran up enormous bills for accommodation, flights and tests and had social welfare cut off

Another couple told of being trapped on the Canary Islands after one of them contracted Covid

Another said they could not afford to even pay for their Covid-19 test. “She does not have enough money to pay for the PCR test,” said an email.

Now don't get me wrong I do feel sorry for anyone still testing positive but

- heading off on holidays during a pandemic and being surprised or indignant either a) you contacted the virus or b) are refused access to flights because of a positive result is really a no brainer.

Question is what if any holiday insurance would cover such a scenario?

faceman · 13-05-2021 11:14AM

gozunda wrote: »

I'm sorry but I did have to laugh at some of the stories who headed off on holiday to Lanzarote, Dubai etc against the current advisory for non essential travel viz.

Who go on to contact the virus during their holiers and now can't get back but want the goverment to lay out the red carpet :pac:

Highlights are

Now don't get me wrong I do feel sorry for anyone still testing positive but

- heading off on holidays during a pandemic and being surprised or indignant either a) you contacted the virus or b) are refused access to flights because of a positive result is really a no brainer.

Question is what if any holiday insurance would cover such a scenario?

I was wondering that too but I think some of those examples are from months ago, prior to the fine

Chuck Norris 2021 · 13-05-2021 11:26AM

I'm curious as to why the government are so eagre to reopen the common travel area with the UK, ahead of everywhere else, when they have their own scariant (I know that it probably accounts for all cases here now) and the highest number of Indian variant cases outside of India?? Does that strike anyone else as odd? Especially when we are locking up europeans for fear of variants? Is it just about bring in the £s this summer? Where are NPHET on all this?

Chuck Norris 2021 · 13-05-2021 11:29AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It doesn't strike me as odd, but that's probably because I came to terms with the fact that there is no logic whatsoever to Ireland's attitude to travel a long time ago.

So do you think the MHQ darts and map have been redeployed as a reopening tool?

Lumen · 13-05-2021 11:35AM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

I'm curious as to why the government are so eagre to reopen the common travel area with the UK, ahead of everywhere else, when they have their own scariant (I know that it probably accounts for all cases here now) and the highest number of Indian variant cases outside of India?? Does that strike anyone else as odd? Especially when we are locking up europeans for fear of variants? Is it just about bring in the £s this summer? Where are NPHET on all this?

Partly because the CTA is practically and historically important, partly because the case rates in Ireland and the UK are about 50% and 20% of the EU average.

saabsaab · 13-05-2021 11:38AM

Lumen wrote: »

Partly because the CTA is practically and historically important, partly because the case rates in Ireland and the UK are about 50% and 20% of the EU average.

I guess it's because the vaccine roll out is well advanced there.

Chuck Norris 2021 · 13-05-2021 11:43AM

Lumen wrote: »

Partly because the CTA is practically and historically important, partly because the case rates in Ireland and the UK are about 50% and 20% of the EU average.

saabsaab wrote: »

I guess it's because the vaccine roll out is well advanced there.

Both valid points, but it doesn't fit NPHETs ongoing obsession with variants. It's not long ago that they were saying we could be living with them for years. They keep repeating that the measures are there to prevent varients. I understand the long association with the UK, and the CTA is important, but what message are we delivering to the EU? That we'd rather fly in the face of the excuses we've been using and allow travel from a non EU country before the EU?

The European Centre for Disease Control has advised that based
on information available, the risks associated with the introduction
and spread of variants of the disease means that escalated
measures should be considered, including quarantining of travellers
and testing during such quarantine.
Travel into the State by persons from certain areas with high incidence levels of
the disease, variants of the disease or without taking the appropriate test for the
disease is a significant concern

eltonyio · 13-05-2021 12:02PM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

Both valid points, but it doesn't fit NPHETs ongoing obsession with variants. It's not long ago that they were saying we could be living with them for years. They keep repeating that the measures are there to prevent varients.

Their approach makes little sense overall in general.

The UK has the Indian variant fairly widely spread now in Britain and yet people from there can travel to the Republic, restriction and test free via the North (in practical, if not legal terms). I have no evidence people are doing this, but would be astonished if they are not.
The actual countries subjected to hotel lockup in Ireland makes no sense either. Bermuda, for example, has c50% of the population vaccinated, no flights to Ireland, an average of 4 cases per day and is on the MHQ list. Poland on the other hand, has 4k cases per day, with only tests and home quarantine required to come in, and has regular flights here.
We are in a situation where you can be fined €2,000 for going to Dublin airport, but going to Belfast airport/ port is entirely legal as far as I can see. That's just bizarre really.
We are probably (depending on the North's opening up of international travel) rapidly approaching a situation where we have an open back door to many countries via Belfast (which is ironically, and kindly, facilitated for us by the anti-travel MHQ populists in Sinn Fein and the isolationist DUP)

As Michael McNamara said yesterday, the public health rules have to make practical sense.

Corholio · 13-05-2021 12:13PM

Will be interesting to see how the trials of this goes, even just to look from the outside and admire some innovation happening.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/business/british-airways-trials-game-changer-25-second-coronavirus-test-1126520.html

Chuck Norris 2021 · 13-05-2021 12:19PM

Corholio wrote: »

Will be interesting to see how the trials of this goes, even just to look from the outside and admire some innovation happening.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/business/british-airways-trials-game-changer-25-second-coronavirus-test-1126520.html

Has it been endorsed by Phillip Nolan? :pac:

gozunda · 13-05-2021 12:34PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Vaccine rollout is well advanced in the US yet Leo is talking about no normal travel to there until next year. It makes no sense.

Infection rates here are low and our vaccination programme is progressing well yet wwe remain on the US " Do not travel" to - list.

That said I dont think its anything particularly to do with Ireland. The US have placed approx 80% of the worlds countries on the same list...

dinjo99 · 13-05-2021 01:09PM

Hi folks,

Hoping some of you will offer an opinion, I realise that nobody has a definite answer.

I am due to travel to Chicago on August 15th and return on August 25.
The purpose is leisure, so not a necessary journey.

I expect to be fully vaccinated by then.

Do you think I will be allowed to travel by them dates, I would have no problem getting tested beforehand?

Do you think that i will have to quarantine (house arrest or hotel) when I return home and if so for how long?

Would really apprecite some opinions.

Valhallapt · 13-05-2021 01:11PM

dinjo99 wrote: »

Hi folks,

Hoping some of you will offer an opinion, I realise that nobody has a definite answer.

I am due to travel to Chicago on August 15th and return on August 25.
The purpose is leisure, so not a necessary journey.

I expect to be fully vaccinated by then.

Do you think I will be allowed to travel by them dates, I would have no problem getting tested beforehand?

Do you think that i will have to quarantine (house arrest or hotel) when I return home and if so for how long?

Would really apprecite some opinions.

My guess would be that all restrictions between the us and Ireland will be gone by then

Corholio · 13-05-2021 01:18PM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

Has it been endorsed by Phillip Nolan? :pac:

He said they shouldn't be used if they are serving a fried breakfast on board.

Micky 32 · 13-05-2021 01:18PM

saabsaab wrote: »

Ask India how they are working out. You need to get to a critical mass of vaccinated people for them to work overall.

You’re twisting it now, i’m talking about the vaccine and it doesn’t change the fact it works against the scariant.

M_Murphy57 · 13-05-2021 01:41PM

dinjo99 wrote: »

Hi folks,

Hoping some of you will offer an opinion, I realise that nobody has a definite answer.

I am due to travel to Chicago on August 15th and return on August 25.
The purpose is leisure, so not a necessary journey.

I expect to be fully vaccinated by then.

Do you think I will be allowed to travel by them dates, I would have no problem getting tested beforehand?

Do you think that i will have to quarantine (house arrest or hotel) when I return home and if so for how long?

Would really apprecite some opinions.

My guess is not travelling by then will be advisory rather than legally prohibited. 2k fine will be gone and the US will not be on the MHQ list. Airport will be busy by then so no hassle from gards either.

All in, whilst I suspect the govt will still be making noises in August to try to stop the Irish going there (Leo keeps repeating travel to the US is far off) they will equally desperately want american tourist dollars here, so wont have anything in place to stop flights.

I wouldnt rule out something stupid though like US tourists arriving here dont need to quarantine but Irish tourists coming back from the US do.

Theres always a layer of stupid on top. Always.

So I'd be leaning towards positive thoughts about going, but as we are dealing with som of the dumbest politicians in history so you never can say for sure.

Klonker · 13-05-2021 02:12PM

gozunda wrote: »

Now don't get me wrong I do feel sorry for anyone still testing positive but

- heading off on holidays during a pandemic and being surprised or indignant either a) you contacted the virus or b) are refused access to flights because of a positive result is really a no brainer.

Question is what if any holiday insurance would cover such a scenario?

You must have read the article if you quoted it. You'd know its not about testing positive on a PCR test because you have the virus, it's about testing positive on a PCR test from a virus that you had weeks and possibly months ago that you no longer have and are not infectious of. It's due to Ireland's strict testing rules that not all other countries have.

mmclo · 13-05-2021 02:39PM

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

Once again a "journalist" at the indo repeatedly calls the green cert a "vaccination passport" for "vaccinated people", which is a lie.

Expect several more layers of stupid on the plan too eg travel permitted to Latvia and Romania with no quarantine but Portugal and Greece added to MHQ list due to vague unquantifiable "concerns".

It's not the Green Cert anymore either 😀

Feria40 · 13-05-2021 02:49PM

Has anyone seen anything yet from the North today re travel and whether or not they will align with Boris? Nothing yet from the main media outlets that I can see

Corholio · 13-05-2021 02:53PM

From Belfast Live in last few minutes:

'In regards to travel, it is believed the Executive has agreed to lift the quarantine requirement for visits from GB and Ireland. The international travel list still to be decided, but at this stage it is hoped Northern Ireland will adopt a similar traffic light system to England.

A formal announcement is expected later this evening'

patscott27 · 13-05-2021 03:10PM

Great news for those of us with family in UK.

Feria40 · 13-05-2021 03:35PM

eltonyio wrote: »

Their approach makes little sense overall in general.

The UK has the Indian variant fairly widely spread now in Britain and yet people from there can travel to the Republic, restriction and test free via the North (in practical, if not legal terms). I have no evidence people are doing this, but would be astonished if they are not.

The actual countries subjected to hotel lockup in Ireland makes no sense either. Bermuda, for example, has c50% of the population vaccinated, no flights to Ireland, an average of 4 cases per day and is on the MHQ list. Poland on the other hand, has 4k cases per day, with only tests and home quarantine required to come in, and has regular flights here.

We are in a situation where you can be fined €2,000 for going to Dublin airport, but going to Belfast airport/ port is entirely legal as far as I can see. That's just bizarre really.

We are probably (depending on the North's opening up of international travel) rapidly approaching a situation where we have an open back door to many countries via Belfast (which is ironically, and kindly, facilitated for us by the anti-travel MHQ populists in Sinn Fein and the isolationist DUP)

As Michael McNamara said yesterday, the public health rules have to make practical sense.

Just for context though, the 4,000 daily cases in Poland..with a population of 39m. On a like for like basis with us that's about 500 daily cases

gozunda · 13-05-2021 03:39PM

Klonker wrote: »

You must have read the article if you quoted it. You'd know its not about testing positive on a PCR test because you have the virus, it's about testing positive on a PCR test from a virus that you had weeks and possibly months ago that you no longer have and are not infectious of. It's due to Ireland's strict testing rules that not all other countries have.

I didnt say it was tbf.

This is the relevant bit

a) you contacted the virus or b) are refused access to flights because of a positive result is really a no brainer.

And by contacted - that as in had contacted it at some point.

I believe it is known that generally there is an issue with a very small number of people exhibiting viral detection following an initial covid infection where they have recovered

That brings us to two points:

The first is that presuming the reported cases undertook testing to get to their holiday destination and based on being given the go ahead to travel - that they more likley became infected whilst on holiday.

The second is that the reported cases are anecdotal and require us to believe that they had been infected / continue to test positive due to continued viral detection.

But more importantly many many countries have a similar requirement for pre--testing for travelling/ flying into countries - like Spain (Lanzarote) and the UAE (Dubai) having nearly the exact same PCR test requirements as Ireland. And yet they did not test positive at the point of their first PCR test?

I think it boils down to the old adage of those deciding to go on holidays during a Pandemic and not thinking of what could possibly go wrong?

Micky 32 · 13-05-2021 03:54PM

Info on when we are classed as fully vaxxed and more info on travel:

“”What NIAC have concluded is that if you get a Johnson & Johnson dose you would be deemed fully vaccinated two weeks after that dose.

With AstraZeneca after your first dose they would view you to be fully vaccinated four weeks after your first dose, with Pfizer and Moderna it is one week and two weeks respectively after the second dose.

So essentially what that all means is that somewhere between two weeks and six weeks of your first dose of any of these you would be deemed to be fully vaccinated", he said.“”

Travel:

“”Minister Donnelly also said he is "very hopeful" about international travel this summer and reiterated that Ireland is fully signed up to it with the Digital Green Certificate, which he described as an exciting initiative.

You will have a QR code on your phone and it can be verified anywhere in the EU, assuming all the states sign up."

He said the European Commission has also contacted North America and Canada to try to create an expanded green zone.“”

Chuck Norris 2021 · 13-05-2021 03:59PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Not often I'll say something nice about Donnelly on this thread but that's quite optimistic sounding!

Long may it continue :pac:

That's an intersting development on the Astra Zenica.

eltonyio · 13-05-2021 04:02PM

Feria40 wrote: »

Just for context though, the 4,000 daily cases in Poland..with a population of 39m. On a like for like basis with us that's about 500 daily cases

For even more context, a month ago Poland had 20,000 cases per day (when we also still had 500 per day). They didn't put Poland on MHQ list then either.

There's very little logic behind their decision making on international travel.

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

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