Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

Joeface · 10-05-2021 8:32am

They had the team mate and they burned him. It was Riccardo , They seem to solely focus on Max . I am not even sure they want the Constructors championship . They have one goal and that's Max as a World Champion.

We are only 4 races in but it really does look Like Albon all over , Hit and miss in qualifying ,good in the race but never where the team needed him to be. Even at this stage last year Albon looked good. He had been taken out in one race that clearly looked like he had the win. Then we all lost faith and so did he .

jv2000 · 10-05-2021 8:52am

flazio wrote: »

What are we looking for in a team mate for Verstappen? Someone who will regularly beat Hamilton into 3rd and deliver consistent 1-2 finishes for Red Bull?
I don't think there's a single driver anywhere in motorsport capable of doing that. Not even Alonso.

Not quite sure that is true, RB are to blame here. Ricciardo and Sainz could have been those drivers but RB let them go. Also I agree that Alonso is not the man, he doesn't appear to have returned to F1 yet and is doing a similar job to Schumacher in the Merc. LeClerc is the other driver that could help RB to 1-2 finishes but can't ever see that happening.

Dont be at yourself · 10-05-2021 9:43am

flazio wrote: »

What are we looking for in a team mate for Verstappen? Someone who will regularly beat Hamilton into 3rd and deliver consistent 1-2 finishes for Red Bull?
I don't think there's a single driver anywhere in motorsport capable of doing that. Not even Alonso.

I don’t think that’s the expectation. What RB need at a minimum is somebody who can qualify 4th, and keep within 20ish seconds of Hamilton/Bottas during the first stint, to limit their pit strategies. That’s actually not a particularly big ask — I’d still think Perez can do it, but he’d want to be settling in soon.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-05-2021 9:52am

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

I don’t think that’s the expectation. What RB need at a minimum is somebody who can qualify 4th, and keep within 20ish seconds of Hamilton/Bottas during the first stint, to limit their pit strategies. That’s actually not a particularly big ask — I’d still think Perez can do it, but he’d want to be settling in soon.

How big an ask that is depends on how fast the Red Bull is. I've said that I think it's clearly the second fastest car. The Mercedes is the best car so asking the second red bull to qualify and stay within a pit window of the Mercedes has proven too much or Kvyat, Gasley, Albon and now Perez.

MadYaker · 10-05-2021 11:31am

Maybe RB need to stick with a second driver for more than one season even if Max consistently out performs them.

BrentMused · 10-05-2021 11:50am

MadYaker wrote: »

Maybe RB need to stick with a second driver for more than one season even if Max consistently out performs them.

I think that's the most sensible play for them too.

Perez is clearly a very good driver and has proven it time and time again over the years. At some point of changing their 2nd driver every 6 months they might realise that it may be worth giving someone more time.

Obviously Red Bull will want him to be qualifying and finishing 4th but surely you have to allow him a season's grace to get embedded in the team and used to the nuances of the car. There was also very little testing this offseason which makes a difficult situation for Perez even tougher.

It really is absolutely ridiculous that this is even a conversation 4 races into the season.

muckwarrior · 10-05-2021 11:59am

It must be bittersweet for Albon. On the one hand it shows that maybe he wasn't bad at all if a fairly respected driver like Perez does no better than him. On the other hand he's out of F1, maybe never to return.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-05-2021 12:30pm

muckwarrior wrote: »

It must be bittersweet for Albon. On the one hand it shows that maybe he wasn't bad at all if a fairly respected driver like Perez does no better than him. On the other hand he's out of F1, maybe never to return.

I always said there was very little to choose between Albon and Gasley. They played musical chairs which was determined by which one went to red bull first. Both looked good at TR and poor at RB. The only difference was that Gasley went to RB and failed first and got to back to TR and look good again while Albon was failing at RB.

If they went in the other order, I think Albon would be at AT and Gasley would be out of F1

Inquitus · 10-05-2021 12:47pm

BrentMused wrote: »

It really is absolutely ridiculous that this is even a conversation 4 races into the season.

Agreed it is silly talk, but the amount of damage Checho getting up to speed is doing to Red Bull's hopes of a WDC, let alone a WCC has been nothing short of devastating. Sergio can't be giving free pitstops to the Mercs week in week out, 2 v 2 strategy is a much harder game to play than 2 v 1 strategy!

McFly85 · 10-05-2021 12:49pm

Strange situation alright, and while I feel for Max I think RBs complete focus on him is ultimately to his detriment.

The Merc seems to be incredibly drivable. You could stick nearly any driver on the grid in it and it wouldn't take them long to get up to speed, and you'd be expecting them to be challenging for podiums. Russell last year showed just how much of a difference it makes. The RB, on the other hand, looks to be tailored to Max and his driving style - meaning there's going to be a steep learning curve when it comes to anyone else being able to get consistently good times out of it.

The way it is now Merc will always have an easier time getting a second driver that will be able to influence races. RB seemingly need a very specific type of driver to do the same.

Having said that, it's early days for Checo and he's a miles better driver than Gasly or Albon, so maybe with time he can come good. If he can start consistently qualifying in the top 5 it would be a massive help, as race pace for him is rarely an issue.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-05-2021 12:55pm

McFly85 wrote: »

...
Having said that, it's early days for Checo and he's a miles better driver than Gasly or Albon, so maybe with time he can come good. If he can start consistently qualifying in the top 5 it would be a massive help, as race pace for him is rarely an issue.

I'd challenge the assertion that the RB is tailored to what max wants. I get the impression that the tricky rear end on last year's car was more of a balls up than an intentional design feature.

I also think it will be much harder to make the case that Perez is way better than Albon and Gasley if he is unable to get closer to Max than those guys managed. I think Perez is OK (plus he's likeable so he's rated higher).

This notion I've seen that Perez is much better than Bottas, is bonkers.

This is it · 10-05-2021 1:13pm

Based on nothing but my opinion I think Max manages to wrestles the car around the track rather than the car being designed for him

Inquitus · 10-05-2021 1:16pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'd challenge the assertion that the RB is tailored to what max wants. I get the impression that the tricky rear end on last year's car was more of a balls up than an intentional design feature.

I also think it will be much harder to make the case that Perez is way better than Albon and Gasley if he is unable to get closer to Max than those guys managed. I think Perez is OK (plus he's likeable so he's rated higher).

This notion I've seen that Perez is much better than Bottas, is bonkers.

I think Max is benefiting greatly from getting in front of the Mercs off the line it seems to be a car that leads much better than it follows.

McFly85 · 10-05-2021 1:21pm

This is it wrote: »

Based on nothing but my opinion I think Max manages to wrestles the car around the track rather than the car being designed for him

Yeah, possibly, just from observation we've see 3 drivers show inconsistency with the car, whereas with the Merc last year we saw a young driver drop in and challenge immediately.

Might just be that Max is just far and away a more talented driver, might be that the car really struggles in dirty air, or a mix of everything!

El_Duderino 09 · 10-05-2021 1:48pm

This is it wrote: »

Based on nothing but my opinion I think Max manages to wrestles the car around the track rather than the car being designed for him

Yeah I'm surprised that Adrian Newey gets away without any scrutiny. People just seem to assume the car is purpose built for Max rather than it being difficult to drive as demonstrated by the last three drivers who failed to get it to work.

Joeface · 10-05-2021 2:07pm

Maybe we should put that since Max is there the longest it's his feed back that has taken priority so the car has evolved in his direction . He has show pace in the car year on year. That's where not having along term number 2 is killing them.
There input is not going to valid until they are use to the Car . kind of strange Catch 22 situation .

El_Duderino 09 · 10-05-2021 2:09pm

Joeface wrote: »

Maybe we should put that since Max is there the longest it's his feed back that has taken priority so the car has evolved in his direction . He has show pace in the car year on year. That's where not having along term number 2 is killing them.
There input is not going to valid until they are use to the Car . kind of strange Catch 22 situation .

Yeah but we're assuming that max is asking them to develop a car that nobody else has been able to drive. We don't know that max is getting the car he's asking for at all.

AMKC · 10-05-2021 2:24pm

When is the Sky exclusive deal with F1 up? Can't come soon enough. I see that RTE and Virgin One are doing a deal to keep the Rugby Six Nations free to air on Irish TV which is great but how about a deal like that for F1. Maybe Channel 4 and the BBC could get together and do it to get F1 back free to air.

Dont be at yourself · 10-05-2021 2:43pm

I think the Sky coverage is fantastic. Would hate to see it back on RTE, ITV or Channel 4, to have it ruined with constant ad breaks and shoe-string production.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-05-2021 2:57pm

OSI wrote: »

Deal runs to 2024. Sky pay something like $250 million a season, BBCs last deal was for £200 million for 5 seasons and even that proved too expensive as they had to do a deal with Sky to split the races. There's not a hope BBC would bid anywhere near an amount that would match Sky.

It would be hard to make the case that they should spend that kind of money on F1. Its a bit of a niche sport these days. It's not really a man-on-the-street sport anymore. Sky made sure of that when they took it off free to air. It's really not in the public interest anymore

markc91 · 10-05-2021 3:07pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It would be hard to make the case that they should spend that kind of money on F1. Its a bit of a niche sport these days. It's not really a man-on-the-street sport anymore. Sky made sure of that when they took it off free to air. It's really not in the public interest anymore

Especially with it not included in the sky sports package on virgin

flazio · 10-05-2021 3:43pm

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

I think the Sky coverage is fantastic. Would hate to see it back on RTE, ITV or Channel 4, to have it ruined with constant ad breaks and shoe-string production.

Sky's coverage is quite stale now. There's only so many times I want to watch someone derim a tyre while the Pitlane reporter tells me how the owner of the wheel did in the race(and that feature gets broken up by an ad break as well) Brundle has been lead pundit for 25 years now. That's much longer out of competition then when David Kennedy joined RTÉ. And then there's David "Crofty" Croft. BBC and Channel 4s ex commentator Ben Edwards stands in on radio for one race, with a brand new co commentator and already has a better rapport than Brundle and Crofty. Channel 4 didn't run ads in the middle of live competitive track action. I honestly can't think of a single thing that Sky introduced to F1 coverage that wasn't already there when the BBC lost the exclusive rights in 2012 or when Channel 4 lost the half rights in 2019.

eviltimeban · 10-05-2021 4:12pm

The thing about Sky that's good is that it's a dedicated channel. Now, most of the week they aren't showing much except reruns of old races (sometimes fun to watch), but it's good to have the whole weekend available should you want to watch it.

I find sometimes it's nice just to have it on in the background, it's like a comforting, friendly sound. I've never sat down to watch a whole practice session (I'd watch the very first test sessions of the year, just to see the new cars) but I've had them on as I've been drifting in and out.

If F1 went back to BBC, it'd be back to the old days of qualifying on Saturday and race on Sunday. I doubt they would show the FP sessions, Ted's notebook, or the F1 show, or any of the other bits and bobs.

I used to like getting absorbed in all the pre-race stuff, especially the features. Good content. I don't really have time to watch them all now.

/Sky promo rant over. Especially now that I can't watch it in HD anymore.

TCP/IP · 10-05-2021 4:19pm

flazio wrote: »

Sky's coverage is quite stale now. There's only so many times I want to watch someone derim a tyre while the Pitlane reporter tells me how the owner of the wheel did in the race(and that feature gets broken up by an ad break as well) Brundle has been lead pundit for 25 years now. That's much longer out of competition then when David Kennedy joined RTÉ. And then there's David "Crofty" Croft. BBC and Channel 4s ex commentator Ben Edwards stands in on radio for one race, with a brand new co commentator and already has a better rapport than Brundle and Crofty. Channel 4 didn't run ads in the middle of live competitive track action. I honestly can't think of a single thing that Sky introduced to F1 coverage that wasn't already there when the BBC lost the exclusive rights in 2012 or when Channel 4 lost the half rights in 2019.

4K and Dolby Atmos coverage there is two

Frank Bullitt · 10-05-2021 5:13pm

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-red-bull-bendy-wing/

Sir Lewis Hamilton claimed Red Bull’s qualifying pace at the Spanish Grand Prix had been enhanced by the addition of a “bendy wing”.

Not sure what to make of this one, if he could see something bending while he was following it then he has great eye-sight. Bit of gamesmanship?

El_Duderino 09 · 10-05-2021 5:28pm

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-red-bull-bendy-wing/

Not sure what to make of this one, if he could see something bending while he was following it then he has great eye-sight. Bit of gamesmanship?

I don't think the article says he saw it bend. I presume it's intelligence he got from the team. There's no suggestion in the article whether it would be illegal or not. What's the story with that? Would bendy wing be legal? Sounds like a nightmare in fast corners to have a rear wing with any flex.

Frank Bullitt · 10-05-2021 5:56pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I don't think the article says he saw it bend. I presume it's intelligence he got from the team. There's no suggestion in the article whether it would be illegal or not. What's the story with that? Would bendy wing be legal? Sounds like a nightmare in fast corners to have a rear wing with any flex.

Every wing gets tested and the FIA have stress numbers to allow a certain degree of bend. All teams try to use the max for it for the tests, some have been clever in the past with getting it to bend or flex on track though. RB did something similar in 2010 I believe.

Either way, seems like the mental warfare is already beginning to start, or kick into gear, rather.

As a note, the RB wings passed the tests this weekend.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-05-2021 6:04pm

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

Every wing gets tested and the FIA have stress numbers to allow a certain degree of bend. All teams try to use the max for it for the tests, some have been clever in the past with getting it to bend or flex on track though. RB did something similar in 2010 I believe.

Either way, seems like the mental warfare is already beginning to start, or kick into gear, rather.

As a note, the RB wings passed the tests this weekend.

Ah, then I'd say it's just the green eyed monster. Trying to get the FIA to be more through in inspecting the Red Bull next time out.

The Red Bull in 2010 had front wings that flexed under pressure. It was a bit of a disaster. Led directly to crashes

Frank Bullitt · 10-05-2021 7:24pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah, then I'd say it's just the green eyed monster. Trying to get the FIA to be more through in inspecting the Red Bull next time out.

The Red Bull in 2010 had front wings that flexed under pressure. It was a bit of a disaster. Led directly to crashes

Which ones?

El_Duderino 09 · 10-05-2021 7:43pm

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

Which ones?

There were a couple of instances and one in particular where Vettel just got out of shape on a straight when the wing started flexing on one side and then the other. Can't find footage of it now so there's a chance i imagined it.

Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

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