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The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

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    #5912
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I follow the Packers, not Rodgers. That does not mean the Packers are above criticism. But if Rodgers decides to go, so be it, my loyalty will stay with the Packers.

    Surely this concept can't surprise you that much...it's pretty much standard across support for all teams in all sports, players (even the greatest) come and go, life goes on.

    I do expect someone who is "sucking it up" at a rate of €33.5 million a year should show some discretion and loyalty. Even if he believes he is being wronged, it should be kept in house. Again, that's very standard and reasonable, take issues up with the employer paying the €33.5 million, don't start leaks to score points on social media or win the media war.

    Supporting players instead of teams is something that’s creeping in more and more with younger fans of sport.


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    #5913
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,101 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Oat23 wrote: »
    I'm sure it's just a coincidence that Schefter happened to work as a beat writer in Denver for 14 years before joining NFL Network and it's the Broncos who are rumoured to be making the biggest push for Rodgers.

    People were saying similar about Schefter and the Mac Jones story, that he'd have the inside scoop because he wrote a book with Kyle's dad. Others said Chris Simms would have to be right about it because he has a tattoo of Kyle's name.

    Rumours with some additional insight are still rumours and should be treated as such.


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    #5914
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,956 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Foxtrol wrote:
    People were saying similar about Schefter and the Mac Jones story, that he'd have the inside scoop because he wrote a book with Kyle's dad. Others said Chris Simms would have to be right about it because he has a tattoo of Kyle's name.
    He wasn't the only one with the Mac Jones, there were loads of them saying they were locked in on Jones. Most of the top reporters have sources and I don't think they were all wrong.
    This crap that it was a bluff by the 49ers makes no sense either because the first two picks were set in stone so they didn't need to bluff anybody as they had the third pick.
    It's suspected that Lynch and Shanahan were in disagreement but came around to Lynch's way of thinking shortly before the draft.


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    #5915
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,925 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    eagle eye wrote: »
    He wasn't the only one with the Mac Jones, there were loads of them saying they were locked in on Jones. Most of the top reporters have sources and I don't think they were all wrong.
    This crap that it was a bluff by the 49ers makes no sense either because the first two picks were set in stone so they didn't need to bluff anybody as they had the third pick.
    It's suspected that Lynch and Shanahan were in disagreement but came around to Lynch's way of thinking shortly before the draft.

    Who suspects that? Genuinely curious. I've not seen that anywhere.


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    #5916
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,931 ✭✭✭Christy42


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Who suspects that? Genuinely curious. I've not seen that anywhere.

    Anyone backtracking saying it was a sure thing before the draft. They don't have a good read on that room and don't want to admit it.


    It was such a strange one from the beginning because even a lot of the people pushing it didn't have Mac that high on their boards and everyone expected him to fall to at least 12. He wasn't even seen as being targeted by any other team from what we heard.


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    #5917
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,925 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Anyone backtracking saying it was a sure thing before the draft. They don't have a good read on that room and don't want to admit it.


    It was such a strange one from the beginning because even a lot of the people pushing it didn't have Mac that high on their boards and everyone expected him to fall to at least 12. He wasn't even seen as being targeted by any other team from what we heard.

    Outside of the 49ers being linked with him, only the Patriots were "high" on him from all that I read.

    I never truly bought that he would go to the Niners, but then I wouldn't have been surprised either. It makes little odds to me. My only concern was the Patriots getting a gem or two.


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    #5918
    cosatron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭cosatron


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Outside of the 49ers being linked with him, only the Patriots were "high" on him from all that I read.

    I never truly bought that he would go to the Niners, but then I wouldn't have been surprised either. It makes little odds to me. My only concern was the Patriots getting a gem or two.

    even the patriots weren't that high on him as they didn't move up for him, i think their mantra was if his there at 15 we will take him or bill felt either Jones or Fields will be there at 15 and we will take who ever is left.


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    #5919
    el Fenomeno
    Registered Users Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    There's been plenty of reports that the Saints had a deal in place to trade up to 16 had New England not taken him.


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    #5920
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,115 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    I don't think the 49ers were ever taking Jones, just didn't make any sense.

    1. Very similar to Garoppolo who they already have, maybe slightly more accurate and a better deep ball but is that worth mortgaging the future for?
    2. They gave up 2 firsts to move to 3. Why do that for a guy that will be available (at least) at 6. They could have got to 6 for the price of 1 first.
    3. Shanahan and Lynch never told anyone the draft pick in the run up so who were all the sources? Jed Yorke only found out on the Wednesday before the draft.

    The idea that there was an internal debate about it and went the way of Lynch over Shanahan is ridiculous. Shanahan runs that organization, has contractual right to select the QB and there is no way he is selecting anyone other than the QB he wants.

    I think there are certain media personalities spinning these stories as they can't face up to how wrong they were in all this.


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    #5921
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,956 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    BonnieSituation wrote:
    Who suspects that? Genuinely curious. I've not seen that anywhere.
    I've read it in more than one place. I read it before the draft about Shanahan wanting Jones and Lynch and the personnel department wanting Lance. I definitely seen that on NBC.


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    #5922
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,931 ✭✭✭Christy42


    el Fenomeno wrote: »
    There's been plenty of reports that the Saints had a deal in place to trade up to 16 had New England not taken him.

    Haven't seen it but it would have been a good move for them if NE hadn't taken him. However I don't think anyone thought the Saints were going top 11 to get him ahead of SF.


    My statement that he wasn't targeted is wrong. A lot of teams would have been interested in the 2nd half of the first round. However no one outside of SF was seen to be aggressively after him. Either using a top 10 pick or trading up into that region for him.

    It will never happen but I would love, absolutely love to see the teams various big boards. Especially on QB. I reckon they were crazy different from each other this year.

    Saw reports of at least 8 teams having Fields above Lawrence as no. 1. Obviously Jets and SF had Fields down the list a bit. Vikings were linked with moving up a big for Fields but didn't want him ahead of the Pats. As you say Saints and Pats were happy with Mac in the middle of the first round, granted neither seemed too worried if he was snapped up ahead of them. Vikings were moving back and Saints didn't move up to beat NE and NE had to know Vikes were looking at QBs but were happy Vikes weren't going near him or were ok with them taking him ahead of them if it came to that. Broncos seemed to not care for either Mac or Fields even though QB is their biggest gap.


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    #5923
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,115 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    This is good if you are interested in the way the media reported on the whole thing and how it eventually went down (Sub required):

    https://theathletic.com/2572165/2021/05/07/media-column-inside-the-mac-jones-to-the-49ers-reporting-and-where-everything-went-wrong/


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    #5924
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,101 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    eagle eye wrote: »
    He wasn't the only one with the Mac Jones, there were loads of them saying they were locked in on Jones. Most of the top reporters have sources and I don't think they were all wrong.

    My post you quoted specifically mentioned another member of the media who was also pushing the idea. Plenty of others in the media said it too but Schefter added major credibility, some members of media told 49ers fans stating that they trust Schefter rather than all the obvious clues that Jones wouldn't be the pick.

    It was a perfect example of a media echo chamber - the more they pushed the Jones narrative, the more front offices from other teams believed it, and then the front offices parroted it back to them and became more sources.

    Since the current regime took over, the 49ers side simply doesn't leak on big things, definitely not a month before a move.
    This crap that it was a bluff by the 49ers makes no sense either because the first two picks were set in stone so they didn't need to bluff anybody as they had the third pick.

    49ers weren't 'bluffing' but there was absolutely benefit for them to go out of the way to correct the media being wrong. Confusion could only benefit them and being open about who their preference was would spoil their internal discussions.
    It's suspected that Lynch and Shanahan were in disagreement but came around to Lynch's way of thinking shortly before the draft.
    eagle eye wrote: »
    I've read it in more than one place. I read it before the draft about Shanahan wanting Jones and Lynch and the personnel department wanting Lance. I definitely seen that on NBC.

    Even ignoring how Jones was nearly universally rated by evaluators as significantly below Lance, to believe your narrative you have to say Kyle has been lying over and over again the last few years when he has pushed back the Mac Jones skillset being his preference for a QB and that everyone in the 49ers organization is lying that only Kyle and Lynch knew the pick until the day of the draft (owners found out the week of). That is some conspiracy.

    What seems much more likely is this story is a case of reporters covering their blushes and deflection by saying 'we were right until a last minute change'.


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    #5925
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,956 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Foxtrol wrote:
    What seems much more likely is this story is a case of reporters covering their blushes and deflection by saying 'we were right until a last minute change'.

    The NBC thing was weeks before the draft so it wasn't anybody trying to do something in hindsight.

    Edit: Here's a link to it. https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/nfl-rumors-kyle-shanahan-john-lynch-disagree-qb-draft-no-3%3famp


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    #5926
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,750 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    So Adam schefter said he sat on the Aaron Rodgers news until the draft. I think at this stage we can take all the reports around the story as true. I say that because in the 21st century athletes are extending protective about their brand and image and if the media report something that is complete bull**** they aren’t slow to correct it. The fact he’s said nothing would suggest everything is true.


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    #5927
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,750 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »
    Yeah the rest of the division avoid this drama by never getting great quarterbacks in the first place. Playing the long game.

    The Detroit lions must be masters of this long game and lost the instructions on how to get out the game something around the Eisenhower administration.


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    #5928
    Barney92
    Registered Users Posts: 2,906 ✭✭✭Barney92


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    So Adam schefter said he sat on the Aaron Rodgers news until the draft. I think at this stage we can take all the reports around the story as true. I say that because in the 21st century athletes are extending protective about their brand and image and if the media report something that is complete bull**** they aren’t slow to correct it. The fact he’s said nothing would suggest everything is true.

    Or parts of it are true and he mightn't want to admit which parts. If he comes out and denies parts of it then he's almost admitting to the rest. If he waits it out and they come to an agreement then its best for all parties to have just ignored the media stuff as rumours.


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    #5929
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,101 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    eagle eye wrote: »
    The NBC thing was weeks before the draft so it wasn't anybody trying to do something in hindsight.

    Edit: Here's a link to it. https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/nfl-rumors-kyle-shanahan-john-lynch-disagree-qb-draft-no-3%3famp

    That article just quotes Michael Lombardi, who then went on to pound the table for a month that it was definitely going to Jones and laughing at 49ers fans who gave a list of reasons why a Jones pick made no sense. The guy was on radio 2 weeks after that article claiming that he knew for a fact that 98% of GMs thought it was going to be Jones (a number that doesn't even make sense) and then threw a tantrum afterwards when he ended up being completely wrong.

    Again, someone to take his word you have to believe he has a leak from a team that very rarely leaks, that this team with a leak has since then managed to perfectly pull off a vast conspiracy regarding when people within the organization were informed of the pick, and to top it off you have to ignore every piece of evidence and quotes from Kyle for years which all pointed to it not being Jones at 3.

    Aside from media noise there was nothing tangible that pointed to Kyle wanting Jones over Lance - it was all media manufactured. This internal rift is pure gossip column stuff, where you have to do Olympic level mental gymnastics to get it to even make sense.


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    #5930
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,956 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Foxtrol wrote:
    and to top it off you have to ignore every piece of evidence and quotes from Kyle for years which all pointed to it not being Jones at 3.
    He wanted Jimmy G and got him. Very similar type to Jones.
    How have you come to the conclusion that Shanahan wouldn't want Jones?


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    #5931
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,115 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    I think he did like Jones but the trade he made is not one you make for Mac Jones.

    He could have stayed at 12 and got Mac Jones. If you are going to do something like that you would need to be looking at someone with tremendous upside.

    I look at the quote from Shanahan after the 49ers got blown out by the bills last year:
    “I evaluate quarterbacks in terms of trying to find people who can have a chance to be one of those elite-type guys,” Shanahan told reporters. “And there’s lots of different ways to do it. You can see now there’s plenty of different ways, so I don’t think that’ll ever change. I don’t think you have one certain thing you’re looking for. You’re just trying to find a guy who is better than about 98 percent of the people on this planet or in this country and when you find that, you get him and you adjust to him.”

    That to me suggests his approach to looking for a quarterback had evolved from looking for a pocket passer like Ryan or Cousins to saying there are many ways to be elite, not just as a pocket passer.

    Overall I think that while he did like Jones that Lance was always the front runner in his mind. :I think a lot of the media reporting was due to a kind of echo chamber resulting from Chris Simms and Adam Schefter putting out the Mac Jones theory as what they thought would happen and the rest of the NFL media just ran with it.

    In fairness a lot of the local SF guys did question that narrative during that process but most of the national guys were on Jones the whole way.

    I think this from Tim Kawakami (beat reporter) with Jim Trotter of NFL network is pretty good on the subject,

    https://twitter.com/timkawakami/status/1390414932500369411


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    #5932
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,101 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    eagle eye wrote: »
    He wanted Jimmy G and got him. Very similar type to Jones.
    How have you come to the conclusion that Shanahan wouldn't want Jones?

    It isn't that Kyle wouldn't want Jones, it is that he wouldn't want him when there are other players available who can offer far more than Jones ever could due to his obvious limitations. Patriots made the call and offered Jimmy to the 49ers for a 2nd round pick, Kyle didn't trade multiple 1st round picks to take him 3rd in the draft - there is a huge difference.

    You appear to be confusing Kyle being comfortable with a QB and what an ideal QB is for him, what many talking heads in the media also did. Kyle feels he can win with the type like Jimmy, Cousins, Ryan, or Jones but because he feels he can doesn't mean he wants to when there is an alternative that can do much more.

    If you've listened to Kyle he has been very open about the type of QB he'd like, people just didn't believe him. Here are two soundbites from this offseason of him describing his ideal QB - who he is describing isn't the player Jones is or even the player who Jones could potentially become. There are plenty more similar soundbites out there from since he took over, as time passes you can tell how frustrated he was getting from being cast with Cousins being his 'type'.

    https://twitter.com/eric_crocker/status/1376628536207888390?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Marco_Mart1205/status/1387089759676243968?s=20


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    #5933
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,956 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    That's a load of waffle, he just talks about dream QB's there not about reality or any specifics.
    Like he's looking for a guy who throws like Brees and runs like Jackson, lol.


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    #5934
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,115 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    Well nothing he has said in the last year has indicated to me he would have traded up for a QB like Jones who would be a minimal upgrade on Garoppolo, if he would be an upgrade at all.

    If you want to believe that Shanahan got overruled by John Lynch, then I guess there's not much thats going to convince you otherwise.

    It seems pretty obvious what Kyle had in mind going back to last season, he made his move and selected the guy he wanted.


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    #5935
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,925 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I've read it in more than one place. I read it before the draft about Shanahan wanting Jones and Lynch and the personnel department wanting Lance. I definitely seen that on NBC.

    Fair enough. I certainly hadn't seen it and I've been glued to r/NFL and every Goddam NFL account the last month.


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    #5936
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,750 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    The eagles have signed RB kerryon Johnson off waivers from the lions.

    This whole broncos player Achilles injury and the fact the broncos don’t have to pay him now will bring the players wanting to have a virtual off season to a head and force them and the teams to make sure it’s safe to do so.


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    #5937
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,925 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    So Adam schefter said he sat on the Aaron Rodgers news until the draft. I think at this stage we can take all the reports around the story as true. I say that because in the 21st century athletes are extending protective about their brand and image and if the media report something that is complete bull**** they aren’t slow to correct it. The fact he’s said nothing would suggest everything is true.

    True or not, he should just come to Denver anyway.


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    #5938
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,956 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    adrian522 wrote:
    Well nothing he has said in the last year has indicated to me he would have traded up for a QB like Jones who would be a minimal upgrade on Garoppolo, if he would be an upgrade at all.
    Well nothing he has done in his career suggests he likes anything but a pocket passer. Even in those clips the way he talks about QB's who run a lot suggests he's not a huge fan of them.
    And I was thinking before the draft that a QB that can run would suit his offense with the amount of run plays they have.
    As for Jones, I'm delighted he fell to the Patriots and I like him a lot. I'm not sold on Lance, I think Jones is more likely to make it in the NFL.
    adrian522 wrote:
    If you want to believe that Shanahan got overruled by John Lynch, then I guess there's not much thats going to convince you otherwise.
    I'm not saying anything definitive, I'm just saying it was reported long before the draft that there was disagreement between them. And I don't think that the rumours were baseless.
    adrian522 wrote:
    It seems pretty obvious what Kyle had in mind going back to last season, he made his move and selected the guy he wanted.
    You can believe what you want. As much as I'm not sold on Lance I still think it's a smart move to listen to Lynch, he knows his stuff in fairness to him.


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    #5939
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,115 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Well nothing he has done in his career suggests he likes anything but a pocket passer. Even in those clips the way he talks about QB's who run a lot suggests he's not a huge fan of them.

    What suggests he's not a fan of them?

    Also Rg3 first season in Washington was pretty good from what I remember.
    eagle eye wrote: »
    And I was thinking before the draft that a QB that can run would suit his offense with the amount of run plays they have.
    As for Jones, I'm delighted he fell to the Patriots and I like him a lot. I'm not sold on Lance, I think Jones is more likely to make it in the NFL.

    I agree a QB that can run opens up the offense, also a QB that can throw outside the numbers and can also throw deep. These are all advantages. I also agree though that there is a chance that Lance doesn't work out, he has a high ceiling but he does have bust potential.

    Jones on the other hand I think at a minimum is a solid NFL starter, but probably doesn't have the same ceiling as the other QB's and will struggle without a good offensive line.


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'm not saying anything definitive, I'm just saying it was reported long before the draft that there was disagreement between them. And I don't think that the rumours were baseless.


    You can believe what you want. As much as I'm not sold on Lance I still think it's a smart move to listen to Lynch, he knows his stuff in fairness to him.

    There were a lot of rumours reported, it now turns out that a lot of these reports weren't really based on solid information and reporters are now trying to claim they were right all along, which obviously isn't the case.

    As smart as John Lynch is, it is obvious that he is not calling the shots, particularly when it comes to QB selection.


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    #5940
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,956 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    adrian522 wrote:
    As smart as John Lynch is, it is obvious that he is not calling the shots, particularly when it comes to QB selection.
    Well we'll never know the truth, no matter what happened they were always going to claim that the guy they picked was their guy all along and you have to do that.


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    #5941
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,860 ✭✭✭nerd69


    Obviously Kyle shanahan signed off on trey lance. What kind of idiot gm wild overrule a coach with shanahans offensive accumen.


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