Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

GhostyMcGhost · 06-05-2021 07:14AM

JPup wrote: »

May have already been covered here, but Sean Barrett Professor of Economics at Trinity made a good point in a letter to the Irish Times. If you are going to introduce minimum pricing, better to do it as a tax. For example, we have de facto minimum pricing on cigarettes and petrol but the majority of the sales price goes to the exchequer, not the retailer or manufacturer. As things stand, the benefit of the proposed minimum pricing for alcohol will go to the retailers and producers.

I’d say the retailers are already pissed off with MUP as it is. The small sweetener is that they can keep the new price difference because it’s not a tax

kingstevii · 06-05-2021 09:08AM

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-the-hidden-cost-of-new-price-rules-for-alcohol-40392053.html

So they used 440ml cans, of strength 4%! Does anywhere even sell 440ml cans?? Its not just a few extra cents, it's a lot of extra cents!

06-05-2021 09:13AM

Would it be possible to get all these bloody regulations reviewed every so often, and repealed if they are found not to be working or having unintended consequences.

L1011 · 06-05-2021 09:15AM

kingstevii wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-the-hidden-cost-of-new-price-rules-for-alcohol-40392053.html

So they used 440ml cans, of strength 4%! Does anywhere even sell 440ml cans?? Its not just a few extra cents, it's a lot of extra cents!

Plenty of 440ml cans sold in Ireland but absolutely none of them are low price - they're used by craft producers and you'd be hard pushed to find one under €2.

Just being used to fudge the numbers lower to try convince people it won't affect them.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

(And were there any establishments doing same which catered to males? :pac: )

Sams Barbers chain.

It was Molson though, last time I was in one, so maybe not worth the effort.

06-05-2021 09:15AM

kingstevii wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-the-hidden-cost-of-new-price-rules-for-alcohol-40392053.html

So they used 440ml cans, of strength 4%! Does anywhere even sell 440ml cans?? Its not just a few extra cents, it's a lot of extra cents!

A lot of brewers are switching to 440ml cans. Carling, Bulmers and lots of craft beers are increasingly using 440ml.

Keyzer · 06-05-2021 09:24AM

Tony EH wrote: »

Oh I don't think he's thick. He knows exactly how underhanded he's being. Wouldn't trust the breath out of that guys mouth. He run with the hare and the hound.

He's not thick...

He just thinks the rest of us are.

06-05-2021 09:46AM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

kingstevii wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-the-hidden-cost-of-new-price-rules-for-alcohol-40392053.html

So they used 440ml cans, of strength 4%! Does anywhere even sell 440ml cans?? Its not just a few extra cents, it's a lot of extra cents!

Senan Maloney, author of that piece: "Arriving at the number of grams in a can, however, requires a specialist conversion that would not be known to the ordinary public."

It couldn't be simpler, anyone can do the sums on their phone calculator.

1g of pure alcohol is 1.25ml

So, to get the total grams, fiirst multiply alcohol volume x volume of the can, and divide by 125

So, a 500ml can of 4.5% beer is simply

(500 x 4 5)/ 125 = 18g alcohol.

Sorry if this is petty, but when journalists write stuff like this, you'd wonder about the basic effort involved in checking their other facts.

mayordenis · 06-05-2021 09:57AM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I really don't think we need the alcohol habits of Central and Eastern Europe

See the below report
https://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/190430/Status-Report-on-Alcohol-and-Health-in-35-European-Countries.pdf

Central and Eastern European countries fare much worse that us when it comes to alcohol related deaths from injury, liver cirrhosis and cancer.

No thanks.

I think the report groups countries a bit strangely, wouldn't agree that Central European countries 'fare much worse' countries East of Germany yes, the rest - no.

FileNotFound · 06-05-2021 10:54AM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Senan Maloney, author of that piece: "Arriving at the number of grams in a can, however, requires a specialist conversion that would not be known to the ordinary public."

It couldn't be simpler, anyone can do the sums on their phone calculator.

1ml of pure alcohol is 1.25g

So, to get the total grams, fiirst multiply alcohol volume x volume of the can, and divide by 125

So, a 500ml can of 4.5% beer is simply

(500 x 4 5)/ 125 = 18g alcohol.

Sorry if this is petty, but when journalists write stuff like this, you'd wonder about the basic effort involved in checking their other facts.

While i think your answer is right the info before is a little off.

1ml Alcohol actually weighs just under 0.8g (specific gravity of ethanol is 0.79...).

So if a can is 4.5% thats 4.5ml in every 100 - so (4.5*5) or 22.5ml then multiply by 0.8 and you get 18g or so.

Then cost is just mutliply this by 0.1 (equivalent to 10 cent per g)

It is very simple alright - any journalist claiming its hard is ill informed at best.

40% Spirits = ((40*7)*0.8)*0.1 = 22.40 euro minimum price

Amirani · 06-05-2021 11:04AM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Senan Maloney, author of that piece: "Arriving at the number of grams in a can, however, requires a specialist conversion that would not be known to the ordinary public."

It couldn't be simpler, anyone can do the sums on their phone calculator.

Sorry if this is petty, but when journalists write stuff like this, you'd wonder about the basic effort involved in checking their other facts.

They didn't say the conversion is difficult, or unlearnable, they just said it would not be known to the ordinary public. I think that's true.

ohnonotgmail · 06-05-2021 11:07AM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Senan Maloney, author of that piece: "Arriving at the number of grams in a can, however, requires a specialist conversion that would not be known to the ordinary public."

It couldn't be simpler, anyone can do the sums on their phone calculator.

1ml of pure alcohol is 1.25g

So, to get the total grams, fiirst multiply alcohol volume x volume of the can, and divide by 125

So, a 500ml can of 4.5% beer is simply

(500 x 4 5)/ 125 = 18g alcohol.

Sorry if this is petty, but when journalists write stuff like this, you'd wonder about the basic effort involved in checking their other facts.

I think you have that a little backwards. 1g of alcohol is approximately 1.25ml. Alcohol is less dense than water.

Capt'n Midnight · 06-05-2021 11:22AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Hopefully the DUP are against these measures up there now, to boost trade in their own country and troll our f*cking pricks in government

What's SF's policy on this ? Because the DUP will do the exact opposite.

But right now they are busy shooting themselves in the foot with a leadership and deputy leader election , if Poots gets in then there'll be a third person up for First Minister but it's not even certain the DUP will keep that position.

FileNotFound · 06-05-2021 11:25AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

What's SF's policy on this ? Because the DUP will do the exact opposite.

But right now they are busy shooting themselves in the foot with a leadership and deputy leader election , if Poots gets in then there'll be a third person up for First Minister but it's not even certain the DUP will keep that position.

Based on the lack of opposition to it by SF down here - not a squeak out of the useless shower - all too busy with leo and some doc that has no impact on me.

I'd say they are indifferent - can't see them driving it or fighting it. Either way I can see stormont dying again this year for another couple of years so that will give some time at least.

ShamNNspace · 06-05-2021 12:20PM

When it starts to impact on businesses around the border, who is one who opposes mup to vote for in the next election seeing as they're all for mup, heaven forbid one of them might come out against it for fear of being deemed pro alcohol whatever that means , an independent maybe?

FileNotFound · 06-05-2021 12:24PM

ShamNNspace wrote: »

When it starts to impact on businesses around the border, who is one who opposes mup to vote for in the next election seeing as they're all for mup, heaven forbid one of them might come out against it for fear of being deemed pro alcohol whatever that means , an independent maybe?

Only ones i heard comlplain were the healy raes - sad day when they are all that stand up for the majority in the nation.

Just seems every party is afraid of standing up against mad health based rules changes.

I understand there is a direct correlation between MUP and increased drug use in scotland - was this raised by anyone?

Then the decision for it to fixed prices instead of a tax on all alcohol shows its favour towards certain groups (pubs)

KrustyUCC · 06-05-2021 12:34PM

FileNotFound wrote: »

While i think your answer is right the info before is a little off.

1ml Alcohol actually weighs just under 0.8g (specific gravity of ethanol is 0.79...).

So if a can is 4.5% thats 4.5ml in every 100 - so (4.5*5) or 22.5ml then multiply by 0.8 and you get 18g or so.

Then cost is just mutliply this by 0.1 (equivalent to 10 cent per g)

It is very simple alright - any journalist claiming its hard is ill informed at best.

40% Spirits = ((40*7)*0.8)*0.1 = 22.40 euro minimum price

It's. 789 so 40% spirits will be €22.09 minimum

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/changes-youll-see-tesco-dunnes-24046735

The journal actually went through this a few years ago

https://www.thejournal.ie/minimum-pricing-alcohol-3-3224809-Feb2017/

The formula is in the article

FileNotFound · 06-05-2021 12:39PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

It's. 789 so 40% spirits will be €22.09 minimum

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/changes-youll-see-tesco-dunnes-24046735

The journal actually went through this a few years ago

https://www.thejournal.ie/minimum-pricing-alcohol-3-3224809-Feb2017/

The formula is in the article

To be fair 0.8 is close enough haha.

Will be ineteresting to see how many of the cheaper brands just dissapear, and any high content beers.

Aldi and lidle unique stuff will rpob go and any belgian beers wont be worth bringing in (the 10+% ones)

06-05-2021 01:00PM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

FileNotFound wrote: »

While i think your answer is right the info before is a little off.

1ml Alcohol actually weighs just under 0.8g (specific gravity of ethanol is 0.79...).

So if a can is 4.5% thats 4.5ml in every 100 - so (4.5*5) or 22.5ml then multiply by 0.8 and you get 18g or so.

Then cost is just mutliply this by 0.1 (equivalent to 10 cent per g)

It is very simple alright - any journalist claiming its hard is ill informed at best.

40% Spirits = ((40*7)*0.8)*0.1 = 22.40 euro minimum price

Yeah, it's ultimately the same thing — I'm just leaving out the bit where I'm dividing by 1.25ml, because then you'd have to divide the 4.5% ABV by 100 (0.045, a bit fiddly!)

So for simplicity (500 x 4.5)/ 125

Amirani wrote: »

They didn't say the conversion is difficult, or unlearnable, they just said it would not be known to the ordinary public. I think that's true.

It was the "specialist conversion" I was taking issue with. Not a big deal, but two very simple methods have been stated above. It wouldn't take anyone here more than 30 seconds to do on their phone calculators.

senordingdong · 06-05-2021 01:10PM

So it's not just about minimum pricing, but about setting a price per unit!?

KrustyUCC · 06-05-2021 01:14PM

FileNotFound wrote: »

To be fair 0.8 is close enough haha.

Will be ineteresting to see how many of the cheaper brands just dissapear, and any high content beers.

Aldi and lidle unique stuff will rpob go and any belgian beers wont be worth bringing in (the 10+% ones)

True lol

That's giving them €0.30 extra again for a whiskey though

Yeah a lot of Aldi/Lidl stuff will go up considerably

One of my favourite beers will go up over 48% in January :mad:

FileNotFound · 06-05-2021 01:14PM

senordingdong wrote: »

So it's not just about minimum pricing, but about setting a price per unit!?

Yes they have set a minimum price per unit - So now the lower end of the beer market and any potential deals are dead - they have killed competition in the supermarket in favour of big brands making more profit and publicans thinking they have a win.

Worst part its not even tax, so its all negative for the tax payer...

kingstevii · 06-05-2021 01:15PM

Deleted User wrote: »

A lot of brewers are switching to 440ml cans. Carling, Bulmers and lots of craft beers are increasingly using 440ml.

Its the snakiness of it. Why not use a standard can of 4.3% can of Heino?

FileNotFound · 06-05-2021 01:17PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

True lol

That's giving them €0.30 extra again for a whiskey though

Yeah a lot of Aldi/Lidl stuff will go up considerably

One of my favourite beers will go up over 48% in January :mad:

I am all for keeping the price down to the min.

:D

I don't drink much but very much enjoyed the Belgian beer sales in Lidl but a 10.5% beer will be very expensive now which likely means they just won't be sold anymore.

Overall little real impact to me - but just a disappointing turn of events

Atlantic Dawn · 06-05-2021 01:18PM

kingstevii wrote: »

Its the snakiness of it. Why not use a standard can of 4.3% can of Heino?

Exactly 500ml is the standard size of beer can in Ireland.

KrustyUCC · 06-05-2021 01:21PM

kingstevii wrote: »

Its the snakiness of it. Why not use a standard can of 4.3% can of Heino?

They're trying to downplay the extent of the changes

As you say snakiness

Atlantic Dawn · 06-05-2021 01:56PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

They're trying to downplay the extent of the changes

As you say snakiness

For added value the UK Heineken is 5%, tastes a lot more similar to what comes on draught here at the pub.

I will gladly go north for that.

KrustyUCC · 06-05-2021 02:15PM

Whereas Carlsberg is 3.8% up North and is terrible muck

Thelonious Monk · 06-05-2021 02:16PM

Why are the Independent and other media trying to downplay this? I don't get it.
I'm hoping the likes of Perlenbacher and Rheinbacher from Lidl and Aldi will still be sold for as cheap as they possibly can sell it, and I just wont buy fancy beers any more, a half decent lager is good enough for me really.

FileNotFound · 06-05-2021 02:19PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Why are the Independent and other media trying to downplay this? I don't get it.
I'm hoping the likes of Perlenbacher and Rheinbacher from Lidl and Aldi will still be sold for as cheap as they possibly can sell it, and I just wont buy fancy beers any more, a half decent lager is good enough for me really.

It's a good question as to how no media outlet has had a good dig at this.

Sadly I just see the cheaper beers disappearing, its not like heineken and the others won't drop to bottom price to get sales every now and then.

I imagine we will just see that one of the bigger beers is at bottom or close to bottom price in pack form at any one time.

Then again thats a wild guess - I assume the likes of Lidl and Aldi are already in planning for this.

odyssey06 · 06-05-2021 02:19PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Why are the Independent and other media trying to downplay this? I don't get it.
I'm hoping the likes of Perlenbacher and Rheinbacher from Lidl and Aldi will still be sold for as cheap as they possibly can sell it, and I just wont buy fancy beers any more, a half decent lager is good enough for me really.

The Independent aren't downplaying it all... it was their front page headline in the print edition today with the banner:
Revealed: the hidden cost of new price rules for alcohol

The price of an average can of beer is going to rise far higher than the €1.32 indicated by the new Minimum Unit Pricing (MUP) plan. State claims about the impact on the cost of alcohol to consumers are in fact based on a relatively small can of 4pc strength beer... The prices of many popular cans of beer will move closer to €2 per can under the new rules.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-the-hidden-cost-of-new-price-rules-for-alcohol-40392053.html

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Comments