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Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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    #5492
    NoLuckLarry
    Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭NoLuckLarry


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    Stephen Donnelly "It is “not OK and not healthy” that some supermarkets are currently selling alcohol “cheaper than they are selling water”, according to the Minister for Health.

    Drank Feighan "pocket money prices"

    I'd love to know what the gombeens would call alcohol prices in the rest of Europe seeing as we have the second highest prices in Europe before MUP

    He’s only bitter that regaine is so expensive, the bald useless sack of **** that he is. Mind your own ****ing business Donnelly and don’t be trying to fix problems that don’t exist


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    #5493
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    JPup wrote: »
    May have already been covered here, but Sean Barrett Professor of Economics at Trinity made a good point in a letter to the Irish Times. If you are going to introduce minimum pricing, better to do it as a tax. For example, we have de facto minimum pricing on cigarettes and petrol but the majority of the sales price goes to the exchequer, not the retailer or manufacturer. As things stand, the benefit of the proposed minimum pricing for alcohol will go to the retailers and producers.
    The paper for the MUP suggests specifically not to introduce is as a tax, as that would increase the price of alcohol at every level. The theory is that when it is only introduced for the cheapest, it will stop the poor the heaviest drinkers and youngest from buying it when they want it, or at least will curb their purchasing/consuming.
    The heaviest drinkers will buy it regardless of the price increase.
    The youngest drinkers will buy it regardless of the price increase.
    The less wealthy will buy it regardless of the price increase, but likely at the cost of something else.


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    #5494
    TomsOnTheRoof
    Registered Users Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    goose2005 wrote: »
    the Irish Times articles are shockingly propagandistic, no attempt at balance.

    The Times has a largely middle class readership. It isn't them who will be affected by this. Hypocrites who are happy to indulge in their own, socially acceptable, form of alcoholism, whilst the less well off have yet another pleasure denied them.


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    #5495
    ShamNNspace
    Registered Users Posts: 4,689 ✭✭✭ShamNNspace


    More lies or mistruths from a medical professional on 5-7.... there are absolutely no health benefits from alcohol sez she... I beg to differ, a glass of wine or brandy or whatever of an evening can be of enormous mental health benefit when taken in moderation +how many have been saved from the rope or the river after a couple of pints and a few friendly words of advice from a friend down the local pub, how many have been saved from that fate by that human contact one finds in a public house once or twice a week to break the monotony of living, and how many have given up through pure loneliness and desperation since this pandemic started because they were denied it rightly or wrongly? ... Its part of who we are and we shouldn't be constantly made to feel ashamed by the national broadcaster because we enjoy the simple pleasure a few drinks brings. There's a coterie of commentators and professionals in this country who are gradually sucking any joy to be had out of life and chief among them are those shower of joyless scoundrels in AAI


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    #5496
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    :rolleyes: stupid thing to say, how would craft beer push mainstream prices up?

    Don't talk tripe.

    If publicans see twats wiling to fork over €7 for a pint of wizards piss, they'll not be waiting around too long to up the price of the mainstream stuff.


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    #5497
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    tjhook wrote: »
    I think the government will be clever with the budget. They can put a hefty increase onto duty, while claiming that it won't affect the cheaper drinks that would otherwise be under the MUP. It'll be nice and "progressive".

    This is what the end game will eventually be, I think. We'll all be watching budget 2022 quite carefully. :pac:


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    #5498
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,930 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Hopefully the DUP are against these measures up there now, to boost trade in their own country and troll our f*cking pricks in government


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    #5499
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    Someone should point out to that gobshíte that a) you can get water for feck all from your tap or a drinking fountain and b) he's clearly comparing "premium" water with the cheapest alcohol. According to tesco.ie, Tesco brand water is 26c per litre. Tesco brand lager is €1.50 per litre.

    It's not a reasonable comparison and he knows it. Assuming he's not thick (which in fairness is up for debate) Donnelly is intentionally misleading the public.

    Oh I don't think he's thick. He knows exactly how underhanded he's being. Wouldn't trust the breath out of that guys mouth. He run with the hare and the hound.


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    #5500
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Can someone clear something up - Simon Harris explicitly stated when signing the statutory instrument giving rise to the ban on short term promotions and multibuys in 2019 (or early 2020?) that it would not cover the complimentary supplying of alcohol at, for example, a business launch, a hairdressers, a bridal fitting, etc. However, recent news reports seem to suggest that it does, and documents from the Dept. of Health and HSE seem to back this up. Does that essentially mean that any form of free provision of alcoholic beverages at a function or in a hotel etc is now entirely banned?

    This was mentioned on Reddit a couple of days ago, someone from Gript wrote an article on it but because it's from Gript, it hasn't been widely publicised. If this is true, though, the sh!t is really going to hit the fan once things start reopening and people realise just how badly these laws are going to impact a wide variety of things - I imagine prosecco deals with brunch, or a free glass of champagne at a pub or club opening night, for example, will also be outlawed?

    Very mixed messaging coming from the government about this.


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    #5501
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »
    The Times has a largely middle class readership. It isn't them who will be affected by this. Hypocrites who are happy to indulge in their own, socially acceptable, form of alcoholism, whilst the less well off have yet another pleasure denied them.

    can you imagine if they brought in rationing for everyone - everyone gets a card that entitles them to 10 litres of alcohol per annum and no more - and it affected the rich as much as the poor! The IT letters pages would be an interesting place


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    #5502
    TomsOnTheRoof
    Registered Users Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    goose2005 wrote: »
    can you imagine if they brought in rationing for everyone - everyone gets a card that entitles them to 10 litres of alcohol per annum and no more - and it affected the rich as much as the poor! The IT letters pages would be an interesting place

    Someone in the thread previously mentioned that the cost of store brand beer could rise by forty percent per pack of four. Could you imagine the outrage if premium wine or spirits saw such an increase. Minimum unit pricing targets the poorest in society and not just addicts.


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    #5503
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,930 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Just saw this change.org petition against these measures if you feel like signing it

    http://chng.it/7SGrWrKSYT


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    #5504
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Just saw this change.org petition against these measures if you feel like signing it

    http://chng.it/7SGrWrKSYT

    I appreciate the sentiment but that petition is very poorly worded and argued.


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    #5505
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,930 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    I appreciate the sentiment but that petition is very poorly worded and argued.

    Yes having read it properly I wish it was done better, there are probably other ones out there


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    #5506
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    Any idea how the general public are reacting to this?

    I haven't really spoken to many this week, and the few I have aren't really surprised or bothered with another price hike.

    Which may defeat the purpose of this, as it's whole point I guess, is to be noticed, to make it more difficult to buy alcohol. :rolleyes:


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    #5507
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    The real reaction won't hit until it's actually brought in and it starts hitting people majorly in the pockets


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    #5508
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »
    Someone in the thread previously mentioned that the cost of store brand beer could rise by forty percent per pack of four. Could you imagine the outrage if premium wine or spirits saw such an increase. Minimum unit pricing targets the poorest in society and not just addicts.


    Minimum Unit Pricing takes food out of the mouth of children.



    Take a single mother, her vice is gin. She buys tesco own brand gin, 700ml, for 15 euros. One bottle a week. MUP will mean her gin now costs 20 euros.



    Does she:
    A: Stop buying gin so she can feed her kids
    b: Buy the more expensive gin, and feed her kids less?


    In many situations, unfortunately, it will be option B.



    Thanks government.


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    #5509
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,391 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Can someone clear something up - Simon Harris explicitly stated when signing the statutory instrument giving rise to the ban on short term promotions and multibuys in 2019 (or early 2020?) that it would not cover the complimentary supplying of alcohol at, for example, a business launch, a hairdressers, a bridal fitting, etc.

    How the hell was it legal for a hairdressers or boutique to supply alcohol to the public without a licence?

    (And were there any establishments doing same which catered to males? :pac: )

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #5510
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    In my opinion pricing doesn't stop addiction or poor habits.

    But education and early education does.

    How about teaching children about alcohol and its affects on health in primary and secondary schools? I mean really not just one or two workshops ...

    Its not really pricing on smoking that changed the culture surrounding it ...it was education and a shift in attitudes to it.

    People began to be afraid of getting cancer so they stopped. If people fear what abusing alcohol does to you ...then they will avoid that.


    This is for the revenue only.

    Bootlegging will be here again.


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    #5511
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    How the hell was it legal for a hairdressers or boutique to supply alcohol to the public without a licence?

    (And were there any establishments doing same which catered to males? :pac: )
    most hairdressers these days take a lot of male clients. And hairdressers only offer a glass free. They don't sell it.

    Also i have only EVER seen hairdressers offer something at christmass ..never just during the year.

    I am sure barbers do on occasion.


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    #5512
    the greatest game
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭the greatest game


    I have never attended a public protest
    But if there was one organised against this
    I would be first there
    I am livid , thst young Fine Gael graphic is the straw that breaks the camels back


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    #5513
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,816 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    How the hell was it legal for a hairdressers or boutique to supply alcohol to the public without a licence?

    (And were there any establishments doing same which catered to males? :pac: )


    Yup my barbers was doing it, i was usually on my lunch from work so never actually got to accept the offer


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    #5514
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users Posts: 45,333 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Just saw this change.org petition against these measures if you feel like signing it

    http://chng.it/7SGrWrKSYT


    Poorly written. Whoever put that together is probably well underage for alcohol consumption tbh.


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    #5515
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    the greatest game wrote: »
    I have never attended a public protest
    But if there was one organised against this
    I would be first there
    I am livid , thst young Fine Gael graphic is the straw that breaks the camels back

    Aren't Young Fine Gael very against this?


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    #5516
    GhostyMcGhost
    Registered Users Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭GhostyMcGhost


    JPup wrote: »
    May have already been covered here, but Sean Barrett Professor of Economics at Trinity made a good point in a letter to the Irish Times. If you are going to introduce minimum pricing, better to do it as a tax. For example, we have de facto minimum pricing on cigarettes and petrol but the majority of the sales price goes to the exchequer, not the retailer or manufacturer. As things stand, the benefit of the proposed minimum pricing for alcohol will go to the retailers and producers.

    I’d say the retailers are already pissed off with MUP as it is. The small sweetener is that they can keep the new price difference because it’s not a tax


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    #5517
    kingstevii
    Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭kingstevii


    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-the-hidden-cost-of-new-price-rules-for-alcohol-40392053.html

    So they used 440ml cans, of strength 4%! Does anywhere even sell 440ml cans?? Its not just a few extra cents, it's a lot of extra cents!


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    #5518
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Would it be possible to get all these bloody regulations reviewed every so often, and repealed if they are found not to be working or having unintended consequences.


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    #5519
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,225 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    kingstevii wrote: »
    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-the-hidden-cost-of-new-price-rules-for-alcohol-40392053.html

    So they used 440ml cans, of strength 4%! Does anywhere even sell 440ml cans?? Its not just a few extra cents, it's a lot of extra cents!

    Plenty of 440ml cans sold in Ireland but absolutely none of them are low price - they're used by craft producers and you'd be hard pushed to find one under €2.

    Just being used to fudge the numbers lower to try convince people it won't affect them.
    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    (And were there any establishments doing same which catered to males? :pac: )

    Sams Barbers chain.

    It was Molson though, last time I was in one, so maybe not worth the effort.


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    #5520
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    kingstevii wrote: »
    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-the-hidden-cost-of-new-price-rules-for-alcohol-40392053.html

    So they used 440ml cans, of strength 4%! Does anywhere even sell 440ml cans?? Its not just a few extra cents, it's a lot of extra cents!

    A lot of brewers are switching to 440ml cans. Carling, Bulmers and lots of craft beers are increasingly using 440ml.


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    #5521
    Keyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Oh I don't think he's thick. He knows exactly how underhanded he's being. Wouldn't trust the breath out of that guys mouth. He run with the hare and the hound.

    He's not thick...

    He just thinks the rest of us are.


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