Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

ohnonotgmail · 05-05-2021 01:10PM

JPup wrote: »

May have already been covered here, but Sean Barrett Professor of Economics at Trinity made a good point in a letter to the Irish Times. If you are going to introduce minimum pricing, better to do it as a tax. For example, we have de facto minimum pricing on cigarettes and petrol but the majority of the sales price goes to the exchequer, not the retailer or manufacturer. As things stand, the benefit of the proposed minimum pricing for alcohol will go to the retailers and producers.

increasing the excise duty on alcohol would be counterproductive. how would that benefit the publicans?

05-05-2021 01:24PM

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest, go the other extreme. Make it common as muck and cheap as chips and people might just grow up a bit.

Go to Central or Eastern Europe and you can buy a beer:

- In McDonalds
- In the train station
- On intercity buses
- In the gym.

It's no big deal. Being drunk and disorderly however is a big deal and is not tolerated.

Can we please adopt that model here?

I really don't think we need the alcohol habits of Central and Eastern Europe

See the below report
https://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/190430/Status-Report-on-Alcohol-and-Health-in-35-European-Countries.pdf

Central and Eastern European countries fare much worse that us when it comes to alcohol related deaths from injury, liver cirrhosis and cancer.

No thanks.

gormdubhgorm · 05-05-2021 01:45PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

but it won't do this. it isn't an increase in excise duty. they couldn't do that because that would affect the publicans as well and we can't be having that.

Ah Jayus I didn't think of that. It pointless so, a kind of 'we care' we want more money for caring, marketing trick.

ShamNNspace · 05-05-2021 01:49PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Who was on?

What we're they saying?

Feighan and for the life of me I can't see whats in it for him, dressing up a pig in all that finery

KrustyUCC · 05-05-2021 01:50PM

yoyo wrote: »

It costs me €4.99 for 24 50cl bottles of water:
https://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=296923532

Where can I purchase these 24 50cl bottles of beer for less or equal to that? I am very interested for Mr Donnelly to provide his sources :D

Goes back a few years to this article

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/beer-cheaper-than-water-in-shops-30035540.html

Of course we never know which brand of water they were on about or if similar big bottles of water were available to break down the prices similar to alcohol packets

Alcohol prices were increased in the budget after that and the alcohol quoted in that article isn't the 'cheap strong alcohol' that MUP is about

It's a false comparison though

Donnelly knows it

VinLieger · 05-05-2021 01:55PM

JPup wrote: »

May have already been covered here, but Sean Barrett Professor of Economics at Trinity made a good point in a letter to the Irish Times. If you are going to introduce minimum pricing, better to do it as a tax. For example, we have de facto minimum pricing on cigarettes and petrol but the majority of the sales price goes to the exchequer, not the retailer or manufacturer. As things stand, the benefit of the proposed minimum pricing for alcohol will go to the retailers and producers.

But that would mean hiking prices for publicans too and as we know from the FG 2011 manifesto we cant allow that to happen.

NoLuckLarry · 05-05-2021 01:58PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly "It is “not OK and not healthy” that some supermarkets are currently selling alcohol “cheaper than they are selling water”, according to the Minister for Health.

Drank Feighan "pocket money prices"

I'd love to know what the gombeens would call alcohol prices in the rest of Europe seeing as we have the second highest prices in Europe before MUP

He’s only bitter that regaine is so expensive, the bald useless sack of **** that he is. Mind your own ****ing business Donnelly and don’t be trying to fix problems that don’t exist

Suckit · 05-05-2021 02:51PM

JPup wrote: »

May have already been covered here, but Sean Barrett Professor of Economics at Trinity made a good point in a letter to the Irish Times. If you are going to introduce minimum pricing, better to do it as a tax. For example, we have de facto minimum pricing on cigarettes and petrol but the majority of the sales price goes to the exchequer, not the retailer or manufacturer. As things stand, the benefit of the proposed minimum pricing for alcohol will go to the retailers and producers.

The paper for the MUP suggests specifically not to introduce is as a tax, as that would increase the price of alcohol at every level. The theory is that when it is only introduced for the cheapest, it will stop the poor the heaviest drinkers and youngest from buying it when they want it, or at least will curb their purchasing/consuming.
The heaviest drinkers will buy it regardless of the price increase.
The youngest drinkers will buy it regardless of the price increase.
The less wealthy will buy it regardless of the price increase, but likely at the cost of something else.

TomsOnTheRoof · 05-05-2021 05:09PM

goose2005 wrote: »

the Irish Times articles are shockingly propagandistic, no attempt at balance.

The Times has a largely middle class readership. It isn't them who will be affected by this. Hypocrites who are happy to indulge in their own, socially acceptable, form of alcoholism, whilst the less well off have yet another pleasure denied them.

ShamNNspace · 05-05-2021 05:53PM

More lies or mistruths from a medical professional on 5-7.... there are absolutely no health benefits from alcohol sez she... I beg to differ, a glass of wine or brandy or whatever of an evening can be of enormous mental health benefit when taken in moderation +how many have been saved from the rope or the river after a couple of pints and a few friendly words of advice from a friend down the local pub, how many have been saved from that fate by that human contact one finds in a public house once or twice a week to break the monotony of living, and how many have given up through pure loneliness and desperation since this pandemic started because they were denied it rightly or wrongly? ... Its part of who we are and we shouldn't be constantly made to feel ashamed by the national broadcaster because we enjoy the simple pleasure a few drinks brings. There's a coterie of commentators and professionals in this country who are gradually sucking any joy to be had out of life and chief among them are those shower of joyless scoundrels in AAI

Tony EH · 05-05-2021 06:47PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

:rolleyes: stupid thing to say, how would craft beer push mainstream prices up?

Don't talk tripe.

If publicans see twats wiling to fork over €7 for a pint of wizards piss, they'll not be waiting around too long to up the price of the mainstream stuff.

Tony EH · 05-05-2021 06:50PM

tjhook wrote: »

I think the government will be clever with the budget. They can put a hefty increase onto duty, while claiming that it won't affect the cheaper drinks that would otherwise be under the MUP. It'll be nice and "progressive".

This is what the end game will eventually be, I think. We'll all be watching budget 2022 quite carefully. :pac:

Thelonious Monk · 05-05-2021 06:55PM

Hopefully the DUP are against these measures up there now, to boost trade in their own country and troll our f*cking pricks in government

Tony EH · 05-05-2021 06:56PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Someone should point out to that gobshíte that a) you can get water for feck all from your tap or a drinking fountain and b) he's clearly comparing "premium" water with the cheapest alcohol. According to tesco.ie, Tesco brand water is 26c per litre. Tesco brand lager is €1.50 per litre.

It's not a reasonable comparison and he knows it. Assuming he's not thick (which in fairness is up for debate) Donnelly is intentionally misleading the public.

Oh I don't think he's thick. He knows exactly how underhanded he's being. Wouldn't trust the breath out of that guys mouth. He run with the hare and the hound.

hatrickpatrick · 05-05-2021 07:13PM

Can someone clear something up - Simon Harris explicitly stated when signing the statutory instrument giving rise to the ban on short term promotions and multibuys in 2019 (or early 2020?) that it would not cover the complimentary supplying of alcohol at, for example, a business launch, a hairdressers, a bridal fitting, etc. However, recent news reports seem to suggest that it does, and documents from the Dept. of Health and HSE seem to back this up. Does that essentially mean that any form of free provision of alcoholic beverages at a function or in a hotel etc is now entirely banned?

This was mentioned on Reddit a couple of days ago, someone from Gript wrote an article on it but because it's from Gript, it hasn't been widely publicised. If this is true, though, the sh!t is really going to hit the fan once things start reopening and people realise just how badly these laws are going to impact a wide variety of things - I imagine prosecco deals with brunch, or a free glass of champagne at a pub or club opening night, for example, will also be outlawed?

Very mixed messaging coming from the government about this.

goose2005 · 05-05-2021 07:15PM

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

The Times has a largely middle class readership. It isn't them who will be affected by this. Hypocrites who are happy to indulge in their own, socially acceptable, form of alcoholism, whilst the less well off have yet another pleasure denied them.

can you imagine if they brought in rationing for everyone - everyone gets a card that entitles them to 10 litres of alcohol per annum and no more - and it affected the rich as much as the poor! The IT letters pages would be an interesting place

TomsOnTheRoof · 05-05-2021 07:59PM

goose2005 wrote: »

can you imagine if they brought in rationing for everyone - everyone gets a card that entitles them to 10 litres of alcohol per annum and no more - and it affected the rich as much as the poor! The IT letters pages would be an interesting place

Someone in the thread previously mentioned that the cost of store brand beer could rise by forty percent per pack of four. Could you imagine the outrage if premium wine or spirits saw such an increase. Minimum unit pricing targets the poorest in society and not just addicts.

Thelonious Monk · 05-05-2021 09:41PM

Just saw this change.org petition against these measures if you feel like signing it

http://chng.it/7SGrWrKSYT

runawaybishop · 05-05-2021 10:11PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Just saw this change.org petition against these measures if you feel like signing it

http://chng.it/7SGrWrKSYT

I appreciate the sentiment but that petition is very poorly worded and argued.

Thelonious Monk · 05-05-2021 10:18PM

runawaybishop wrote: »

I appreciate the sentiment but that petition is very poorly worded and argued.

Yes having read it properly I wish it was done better, there are probably other ones out there

Suckit · 05-05-2021 10:50PM

Any idea how the general public are reacting to this?

I haven't really spoken to many this week, and the few I have aren't really surprised or bothered with another price hike.

Which may defeat the purpose of this, as it's whole point I guess, is to be noticed, to make it more difficult to buy alcohol. :rolleyes:

KrustyUCC · 05-05-2021 11:16PM

The real reaction won't hit until it's actually brought in and it starts hitting people majorly in the pockets

05-05-2021 11:27PM

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

Someone in the thread previously mentioned that the cost of store brand beer could rise by forty percent per pack of four. Could you imagine the outrage if premium wine or spirits saw such an increase. Minimum unit pricing targets the poorest in society and not just addicts.

Minimum Unit Pricing takes food out of the mouth of children.

Take a single mother, her vice is gin. She buys tesco own brand gin, 700ml, for 15 euros. One bottle a week. MUP will mean her gin now costs 20 euros.

Does she:
A: Stop buying gin so she can feed her kids
b: Buy the more expensive gin, and feed her kids less?

In many situations, unfortunately, it will be option B.

Thanks government.

Hotblack Desiato · 06-05-2021 12:48AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Can someone clear something up - Simon Harris explicitly stated when signing the statutory instrument giving rise to the ban on short term promotions and multibuys in 2019 (or early 2020?) that it would not cover the complimentary supplying of alcohol at, for example, a business launch, a hairdressers, a bridal fitting, etc.

How the hell was it legal for a hairdressers or boutique to supply alcohol to the public without a licence?

(And were there any establishments doing same which catered to males? :pac: )

ILoveYourVibes · 06-05-2021 01:30AM

In my opinion pricing doesn't stop addiction or poor habits.

But education and early education does.

How about teaching children about alcohol and its affects on health in primary and secondary schools? I mean really not just one or two workshops ...

Its not really pricing on smoking that changed the culture surrounding it ...it was education and a shift in attitudes to it.

People began to be afraid of getting cancer so they stopped. If people fear what abusing alcohol does to you ...then they will avoid that.

This is for the revenue only.

Bootlegging will be here again.

ILoveYourVibes · 06-05-2021 01:43AM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

How the hell was it legal for a hairdressers or boutique to supply alcohol to the public without a licence?

(And were there any establishments doing same which catered to males? :pac: )

most hairdressers these days take a lot of male clients. And hairdressers only offer a glass free. They don't sell it.

Also i have only EVER seen hairdressers offer something at christmass ..never just during the year.

I am sure barbers do on occasion.

the greatest game · 06-05-2021 05:55AM

I have never attended a public protest
But if there was one organised against this
I would be first there
I am livid , thst young Fine Gael graphic is the straw that breaks the camels back

VinLieger · 06-05-2021 06:08AM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

How the hell was it legal for a hairdressers or boutique to supply alcohol to the public without a licence?

(And were there any establishments doing same which catered to males? :pac: )

Yup my barbers was doing it, i was usually on my lunch from work so never actually got to accept the offer

06-05-2021 06:11AM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Just saw this change.org petition against these measures if you feel like signing it

http://chng.it/7SGrWrKSYT

Poorly written. Whoever put that together is probably well underage for alcohol consumption tbh.

ThunbergsAreGo · 06-05-2021 07:04AM

the greatest game wrote: »

I have never attended a public protest
But if there was one organised against this
I would be first there
I am livid , thst young Fine Gael graphic is the straw that breaks the camels back

Aren't Young Fine Gael very against this?

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Comments