Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

matt007 · 05-05-2021 10:03AM

It only effects the poor.
More spending the housekeeping money.
More begging.
More stealing.
More misery.
More abuse.

Meanwhile the more well off won't even notice an extra few cents on their fizz.

05-05-2021 10:07AM

I barely drink much anymore, but I'll be avoiding the pubs as much as possible in the future. Time to get back into home brewing.

FileNotFound · 05-05-2021 10:14AM

matt007 wrote: »

It only effects the poor.
More spending the housekeeping money.
More begging.
More stealing.
More misery.
More abuse.

Meanwhile the more well off won't even notice an extra few cents on their fizz.

In fairness you are not far off with this statement - I will have to spend a small amount more on the beer I like and the multi buy deals are now gone (slab price deals) but otherwise i am not disproportionately hit by it. But I think it will result in overall price increases by the standard brands as their lower price competition was just wiped out. Bottom end spirits are all going to be the same price - not sure which ones will survive that - Gordons and smirnoff will most likely kill off much of their competition. The lidl and aldi brands will be dead.

Deleted User wrote: »

I barely drink much anymore, but I'll be avoiding the pubs as much as possible in the future. Time to get back into home brewing.

I am literally thinking this is the future now - must start gathering the kit.

Was enjoying some of the strong belgian beers that lidl do once in a while, sadly they will no longer go on sale as they would cost close to 4 euro a bottle - literally lidl won't bother to stock them now.

Need to find/start a good homebrew thread - some of my mates in the UK have started using a fast brew kit they claim is great - must see if i can get a couple of them sent over here.

cadaliac · 05-05-2021 10:25AM

All this talk of home brew kits - avoiding pubs, is absolutely ridiculous.
Why should we be railroaded into this?

Bollocks.

Raising the price, for whatever reason to appease a cartel of publicans ?
This beggars belief.

Conehead himself was spouting this morning on the TV how we have the third highest teenage binge drinking culture in Europe - nothing about fixing the situation - Just increase the price.
Nothing about why that demographic is struggling - Know what we will do? Raise the price of booze
Look at Scotland - lets raise the price. Why do we constantly compare ourselves to other countries (when it suits)?
This will do more damage than good.
FFS.

05-05-2021 10:39AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCedOQJ0ZEA

Capt'n Midnight · 05-05-2021 10:45AM

tjhook wrote: »

I think the government will be clever with the budget. They can put a hefty increase onto duty, while claiming that it won't affect the cheaper drinks that would otherwise be under the MUP. It'll be nice and "progressive".

Two birds, one stone.

That's crazy talk because it's common sense.

This measure will more than double the price of a Aldi's Galahad 'lager' so plenty of scope for excise increase.

yoyo · 05-05-2021 10:56AM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

What amazes me with this nonsense is they are starting to introduce it presumably when pubs reopen (although knowing this banana republic who knows if pubs will even be fully open by next January! :pac: ). So with the obvious increase of alcohol consumption starting next year potentially when pubs reopen, how will they measure the effectiveness with MUP? Will they use the increased alcohol consumption next year to further increase the minimum unit price? Is there a maximum unit price?!

I was amazed to notice in Copenhagen 3 years ago the off sale beer (and talking Tuborg/Carlsberg here, not their "dutch gold" equivalents) prices were actually inline if not cheaper than here. I was expecting it to be considerably dearer. Drinking out was basically temple bar prices, but in a country where the average salary is far higher than ours with a cost of living reflecting it.

I'd be interested to know what the EUs stance on this is? Would wine exporters in the likes of France for example not be concerned? I'm surprised at the silence from Europe here.

biko · 05-05-2021 10:58AM

This thread have been going on 4 years now. Is it very nigh nigh now?

Mimon · 05-05-2021 10:58AM

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Make your own. All the kit is in Homebrew West.

While I enjoy brewing bottling is a pain in the hoop. If you factor in your own labour it is dearer per litre of beer.

odyssey06 · 05-05-2021 11:01AM

yoyo wrote: »

I'd be interested to know what the EUs stance on this is? Would wine exporters in the likes of France for example not be concerned? I'm surprised at the silence from Europe here.

Spain made such vague murmurings about damaging competition but it wasn't a full scale objection. The Scottish version I think was challenged in Europe and kicked to touch by the European court as a matter for domestic courts.

"The Court of Justice considers that the effect of the Scottish legislation is significantly to restrict the market, and this might be avoided by the introduction of a tax measure designed to increase the price of alcohol instead of a measure imposing a minimum price per unit of alcohol. The court states that it is ultimately for the national court to determine whether measures other than that provided for by the Scottish legislation, such as increased taxation on alcoholic drinks, are capable of protecting human life and health as effectively as the current legislation, while being less restrictive of trade in those products within the EU."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-35160396#:~:text=The%20European%20Court%20of%20Justice,Scottish%20Parliament%20in%20May%202012.

Of course, the governments in Ireland and Scotland have shown no such thing.

FileNotFound · 05-05-2021 11:02AM

yoyo wrote: »

What amazes me with this nonsense is they are starting to introduce it presumably when pubs reopen (although knowing this banana republic who knows if pubs will even be fully open by next January! :pac: ). So with the obvious increase of alcohol consumption starting next year potentially when pubs reopen, how will they measure the effectiveness with MUP? Will they use the increased alcohol consumption next year to further increase the minimum unit price? Is there a maximum unit price?!

I was amazed to notice in Copenhagen 3 years ago the off sale beer (and talking Tuborg/Carlsberg here, not their "dutch gold" equivalents) prices were actually inline if not cheaper than here. I was expecting it to be considerably dearer. Drinking out was basically temple bar prices, but in a country where the average salary is far higher than ours with a cost of living reflecting it.

I'd be interested to know what the EUs stance on this is? Would wine exporters in the likes of France for example not be concerned? I'm surprised at the silence from Europe here.

I think I recall Scotland being in the EU courts over it when they wanted to bring it in, As it is in I assume it was judged to be legal under EU law.

You actually think anyone will bother to measure the impact? If drinking drops this will get the credit, if it does not drop they will increase again most likely.

Nobody ever checked if the early close time for off licences had any impact - no reports, reviews or discussion at all.

It is my understanding that drinking in ireland has been on a steady decline between 2005 and 2019 Something like 30% drop over the period - so there is no correlation between the current prices and consumption as consumption was already dropping.

Assuming this trend continues, the advocates of this will claim this as their doing even though its just a changing ireland. Sad old situation.

Hotblack Desiato · 05-05-2021 11:15AM

biko wrote: »

This thread have been going on 4 years now. Is it very nigh nigh now?

1st January nigh enough for you? Legislation has been on the books for years but not activated. Cabinet decision this week to activate it from 1 Jan.

Hotblack Desiato · 05-05-2021 11:16AM

Macy0161 wrote: »

Pint Bottle of Bulmers was 6.50 about 4 years ago the last time I brought it in Town (not city centre either).

Not a beer and not craft but apart from that, totally relevant I'm sure!

How does that affect the price of, say, Guinness or Carlsberg?

FileNotFound · 05-05-2021 11:18AM

One thing i did not think of really is would this actually impact say Wetherspoons prices at all?

I assume even they have prices high enough that it would have limited to no effect.

ohnonotgmail · 05-05-2021 11:21AM

FileNotFound wrote: »

One thing i did not think of really is would this actually impact say Wetherspoons prices at all?

I assume even they have prices high enough that it would have limited to no effect.

it won't affect any pub prices. that is the point.

ShamNNspace · 05-05-2021 12:22PM

Lies on news at one now

05-05-2021 12:33PM

dubrov wrote: »

Well we have a long history already of increasing the price of alcohol in Ireland.

Has it been effective at improving our relationship with alcohol?

Maybe it's time to look at other angles (see advertising/sponsorship)

To be honest, go the other extreme. Make it common as muck and cheap as chips and people might just grow up a bit.

Go to Central or Eastern Europe and you can buy a beer:

- In McDonalds
- In the train station
- On intercity buses
- In the gym.

It's no big deal. Being drunk and disorderly however is a big deal and is not tolerated.

Can we please adopt that model here?

05-05-2021 12:35PM

ShamNNspace wrote: »

Lies on news at one now

Heard it. Shocking stuff.

The retailers slightly south of the border have a point though. If a bottle of Jameson is 5 quid cheaper in Newry than it is in Monaghan town, then I'm going to go to Newry and get a couple of bottles, and while I'm there, I might as well do the weekly shop, and I might pick up a new suit while I'm there too.

Savings for me. Income for the guy in Monaghan town = £0

Hotblack Desiato · 05-05-2021 12:36PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

it won't affect any pub prices. that is the point.

Yes apparently only off-licence alcohol can damage your health. Never ever heard of anyone passing out drunk after being in a pub either, or getting into a fight. Pub alcohol is magical stuff. Clearly the vintners reason to want us to forsake the evil offy and drink in their establishments instead is because they have nothing but our better interests at heart.

KrustyUCC · 05-05-2021 12:42PM

ShamNNspace wrote: »

Lies on news at one now

Who was on?

What we're they saying?

05-05-2021 12:45PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Yes apparently only off-licence alcohol can damage your health. Never ever heard of anyone passing out drunk after being in a pub either, or getting into a fight. Pub alcohol is magical stuff. Clearly the vintners reason to want us to forsake the evil offy and drink in their establishments instead is because they have nothing but our better interests at heart.

Yes and all publicans make a mature sober analysis of their clients and decline drink to someone who has had enough. :rolleyes:

In 20 years of pub visits, I never saw anyone be declined drink in Ireland. Even the fella who fell over three times on the way to the bar got served.

Muahahaha · 05-05-2021 12:49PM

FileNotFound wrote: »

You actually think anyone will bother to measure the impact? If drinking drops this will get the credit, if it does not drop they will increase again most likely.

I can see how this will go already. MUP will bring about a boom in both home brewing and black market booze sold by the lads already doing black market cigarettes and tobacco. Homebrew and bootleg booze obviously wont show up in the official consumption figures which will go down as people find alternatives over paying through the nose for alcohol. Government will point to consumption being down and declaring victory because of MUP.

ShamNNspace wrote: »

Lies on news at one now

They said the republic is introducing it on Jan 1st 2022 but that the north is not in a position to introduce it until 2023 "at the earliest". So we are going to have a full year at least of people flooding up north to do their shopping and stock up on alcohol. Id say they government will be getting it in the ear off relaters in the south because people will do big massive shops up north.

10000maniacs · 05-05-2021 12:50PM

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest, go the other extreme. Make it common as muck and cheap as chips and people might just grow up a bit.

Go to Central or Eastern Europe and you can buy a beer:

- In McDonalds
- In the train station
- On intercity buses
- In the gym.

It's no big deal. Being drunk and disorderly however is a big deal and is not tolerated.

Can we please adopt that model here?

Martin, Varadkar, Donnolly and co. get turned on by mothering the Irish nation. It's their fetish.
We don't have minds of our own and need to be saved from ourselves.

KrustyUCC · 05-05-2021 12:54PM

Stephen Donnelly "It is “not OK and not healthy” that some supermarkets are currently selling alcohol “cheaper than they are selling water”, according to the Minister for Health.

Drank Feighan "pocket money prices"

I'd love to know what the gombeens would call alcohol prices in the rest of Europe seeing as we have the second highest prices in Europe before MUP

gormdubhgorm · 05-05-2021 12:55PM

In answer to the OP's poll I am in the middle yes we do have a drinking problem in Ireland. It is a problem with the drinking culture and Ireland's relationship with drink.
That is beyond question.

The Dáil know this only too well while sitting in the Dáil bar! But will minimum pricing make a difference and save lives as Leo claims? It would be negligible as far as I am concerned. But it will definitely increase the takings for the Minister for Finance which is what it is really all about. Money, dressed up as a public health issue.

ohnonotgmail · 05-05-2021 12:57PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

In answer to the OP's poll I am in the middle yes we do have a drinking problem in Ireland. It is problem with the drinking culture and Ireland's relationship with drink.
That is beyond question.

The Dáil know this only too well while sitting in the Dáil bar! But will minimum pricing make a difference and save lives as Leo claims? It would be negligible as far as I am concerned. But it will definitely increase the takings for the Minister for Finance which is what it is really all about. Money, dressed up as a public health issue.

but it won't do this. it isn't an increase in excise duty. they couldn't do that because that would affect the publicans as well and we can't be having that.

FileNotFound · 05-05-2021 12:58PM

10000maniacs wrote: »

Martin, Varadkar, Donnolly and co. get turned on by mothering the Irish nation. It's their fetish.
We don't have minds of our own and need to be saved from ourselves.

In fairness where was our opposition.. What are we paying the shinners for? They are utter tripe as an opposition unless its for a handy headline.

Overall when it comes to things like this seems the only decency in the Dail comes from the Healy Raes, who'd have thought they would be the ones to fight the fight that matters to us.

Shinners off covering up GDPR breaches while chasing some GP contract that matters nothing to the people who voted for them.

yoyo · 05-05-2021 12:58PM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly "It is “not OK and not healthy” that some supermarkets are currently selling alcohol “cheaper than they are selling water”, according to the Minister for Health.

Drank Feighan "pocket money prices"

I'd love to know what the gombeens would call alcohol prices in the rest of Europe seeing as we have the second highest prices in Europe before MUP

It costs me €4.99 for 24 50cl bottles of water:
https://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=296923532

Where can I purchase these 24 50cl bottles of beer for less or equal to that? I am very interested for Mr Donnelly to provide his sources

:D

JPup · 05-05-2021 01:04PM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

May have already been covered here, but Sean Barrett Professor of Economics at Trinity made a good point in a letter to the Irish Times. If you are going to introduce minimum pricing, better to do it as a tax. For example, we have de facto minimum pricing on cigarettes and petrol but the majority of the sales price goes to the exchequer, not the retailer or manufacturer. As things stand, the benefit of the proposed minimum pricing for alcohol will go to the retailers and producers.

10000maniacs · 05-05-2021 01:06PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

In answer to the OP's poll I am in the middle yes we do have a drinking problem in Ireland. It is problem with the drinking culture and Ireland's relationship with drink.
That is beyond question.

The Dáil know this only too well while sitting in the Dáil bar! But will minimum pricing make a difference and save lives as Leo claims? It would be negligible as far as I am concerned. But it will definitely increase the takings for the Minister for Finance which is what it is really all about. Money, dressed up as a public health issue.

We don't have any bigger problem with alcohol than anywhere else. The big problem is the price of alcohol, especially in pubs. It always has been. The amount the government take in taxation. It has always meant that in Ireland, the family of an alcoholic suffered more financially in Ireland than anywhere else.
And then the cretins come up with this hairbrained scheme to make matters worse.

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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