Random EV thoughts.....

DrPhilG · 02-05-2021 10:53PM

Black_Knight wrote: »

VW be out of warranty to in 3 years, yeah? Kia will still have a few years left won't it?

Yup. That's my other consideration. The only reason I'm considering selling the i3 (other than a desire to go back to full EV) is that it's out of warranty and any issues will be expensive, like the current window motor that's crapped out.

So if I get an ID3 I'll be in the same boat in 3 years whereas I'd happily keep an e-Niro for 5 years. The Kia 7 year warranty is mileage limited to 160k km so it would only really be a 6.5 year warranty for me and I'd aim to sell it with a year's warranty remaining.

DrPhilG · 03-05-2021 01:57AM

Rough calculations would have the overall costs of keeping the i3 (depreciation, electricity, petrol, tax) at between €4k and €4.5k depending on whether I have any out of warranty issues to fix (beyond the current one).

An ID3 would be about €5.5k - high initial cost so proportionally higher depreciation. Plus I'd definitely be changing again in 3 years due to the short warranty.

An e-Niro probably about €5k. Lower price so depreciation a little lower. Plus with a 7 year warranty (more like 6.5 with my mileage) I could comfortably keep it for 5+ years.

So I'm back at the e-Niro as a potential winner. And if I can find a respectably priced 1 year old it may even end up with a lower annual cost than keeping the i3.

fits · 03-05-2021 06:29AM

You are going through all the same thought processes as I have been! I think we will be ok with changing in three years until the technology advances settle down a bit.

I’m not sure if the Id 3 will depreciate faster than the eniro. I’d say it will be the other way around. But al l Evs have been pretty strong in recent years. And demand for them is only going to increase.

I did my calculations based on 15 k depreciation over three years for both the eniro and the id3.

handpref · 03-05-2021 08:51AM

Black_Knight wrote: »

VW be out of warranty to in 3 years, yeah? Kia will still have a few years left won't it?

The worrying thing with the vw warranty is the limitations, it’s capped after 2 years to 90,000km’s, I was considering one but not with that lack of back up. I’m doing 40,000+ a year so it wouldn’t make sense, I’d be out of warranty after 2 years.

Tesla may go one better with a 80,000km cap.

Even the little Zoe at home here gets 5 years and 200,000km warranty, and some people are quick to put Renault down.

Kia is 7 years or 150,000km’s which if your not doing big milage is super piece of mind for both a new or second hand purchase.

I think when DrPhil was thinking of changing a while ago the warranty periods came up, buying a 40k car that the manufacturer won’t stand over after 2 years doesn’t really cut it.

Don’t take the above as gospel, just what I gleaned before we settled on the zoe. BMW tried to lay it on thick once the i3 was out of warranty and that wasn’t going to happen with the second car.

Kramer · 04-05-2021 12:02AM

handpref wrote: »

buying a 40k car that the manufacturer won’t stand over after 2 years doesn’t really cut it.

It's strange alright that as the price goes up, the warranty duration goes down.
It should arguably be the inverse, especially with the longetivity, simplicity & durability of BEVs, certainly regarding the drivetrain.

I think manufacturers are going to have to introduce a different model - maybe front loading BEVs with the lifetime income they derived from servicing/maintaining/repairing ICE'd cars.

A UK BMW manager told me relatively recently that there was no real profit in the cars, especially the nearly new, pre owned. He said the finance made them money & the cars were just a tool to allow them to sell finance.

He had no reason to lie.

Maybe extended warranties &/or insurance, PCP etc. are their way forward.

liamog · 04-05-2021 01:31PM

Kramer wrote: »

A UK BMW manager told me relatively recently that there was no real profit in the cars, especially the nearly new, pre owned. He said the finance made them money & the cars were just a tool to allow them to sell finance.

I saw that as part of the BEV push, VW are looking to increase the margin on a car from 2% to 8%. The consensus seems to be now is an opportunity to capture some of the TCO savings by increasing the margin on the car itself.

cannco253 · 04-05-2021 03:33PM

I used MotorCheck recently on an EV purchase and received an email from them today

"SAVE EVERY TIME YOU FILL UP AT CircleK
Hi XX,

AAA here from MotorCheck.ie

Just a quick note to let you know that as a MotorCheck user you are entitled to TWO CENT OFF EVERY LITRE of petrol or diesel purchased at any Circle K station nationwide. To claim your discount all you need is a MotorCheck fuel card which is free to apply for here."

I mailed them back asking about any discounts on EV charging.

"Unfortunately CircleK are not providing a discount on charging stations on the Fuelcard at the moment but I'll mention this to the team who deal with CircleK to raise at our next review."

05-05-2021 08:49AM

Anyone ever seen someone try this trick?

zg3409 · 05-05-2021 09:13AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone ever seen someone try this trick?

Every phev at an Irish rail station car park...

I know parking tickets are issued for cars not actively charging in Bray, so if the ESB charger says idle you will get a parking ticket. I presume this owner would use a stick on label to fix this..

There was talk in the last if changing settings in the EV to charge slower, to get free parking for longer..

the_amazing_raisin · 05-05-2021 09:20AM

That's the problem with giving away free parking at chargers, especially when there's a lot of high demand parking around you

It's a nice thought, but it just keeps getting abused

mfceiling · 05-05-2021 10:02AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Anyone ever seen someone try this trick?

Would the "2.0 tdi" badge on the back not give it away!!

MJohnston · 05-05-2021 10:07AM

mfceiling wrote: »

Would the "2.0 tdi" badge on the back not give it away!!

To who, though?

05-05-2021 01:16PM

MJohnston wrote: »

To who, though?

I would imagine that most parking enforcement staff really wouldn't know it's a fake socket, or care.

MJohnston · 05-05-2021 01:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I would imagine that most parking enforcement staff really wouldn't know it's a fake socket, or care.

What I'm getting at is — Ireland doesn't do parking enforcement. There won't be anyone to give anything away to!

cannco253 · 06-05-2021 11:19AM

https://www.wattsup.app/

Had a look at this last night. Nice feature in that it shows an icon of the Charging provider at each charger location, so you can see in advance if it's ESB/EasyGo/Ionity...

the_amazing_raisin · 10-05-2021 11:19AM

Had a funny chat with the missus recently

After several years of her refusing to drive the Leaf, she's finally learned to drive it and gotten rid of her ICE banger.
She doesn't want to keep the Leaf however, she's not the biggest fan of the looks of the car and she wants something with more range (understandable since the Leaf24 isn't for everyone)

So the plan was for her to save for a while and buy a newer car, probably another ICE.

However, after a few weeks of driving the Leaf she's realised she hates cars with gears and has to buy an EV if she wants the smooth driving. I'm now referred to as "b@stard" for bringing her into the dark ways of EV drivers.

Mission accomplished

Just another great example of how once someone drives an EV for a while they often don't want to go back to ICE for regular driving

MJohnston · 10-05-2021 11:42AM

ICE driving is just ****ing tedious once you've gone to an EV.

One thing I keep thinking about is how much easier learning to drive will be for my son — I reckon learning the gears at the same time as everything else was about 80% of the hard part of learning to drive. Without gears, you can just focus on getting the actual driving right.

Much safer and easier for everyone.

innrain · 10-05-2021 11:46AM

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Just another great example of how once someone drives an EV for a while they often don't want to go back to ICE for regular driving

Yeah this is how I changed many people's minds. Generally people think diving an EV is like driving a milk float. To bad gocar has only few EVs now. They have no Zoes it seems and only 3 Konas and 3 Leafs. They are 12 quid an hour and I encourage anybody to give it a try.

A friend in DE gave me all the arguments: driving thousands of km a day, battery expiring and the rest. My argument was just drive one and then I'll reply to the rest. Trying to convince someone who does not listen is pointless. Once they experience the EV drive then they'll listen. Of course is not for everyone I accept that but the majority of people who did a drive test in my EV were awed.

fits · 10-05-2021 11:49AM

MJohnston wrote: »

ICE driving is just ****ing tedious once you've gone to an EV.

One thing I keep thinking about is how much easier learning to drive will be for my son — I reckon learning the gears at the same time as everything else was about 80% of the hard part of learning to drive. Without gears, you can just focus on getting the actual driving right.

Much safer and easier for everyone.

I’ve driven automatic ice cars for years now and they are fine . It’s the manual transmission that’s the truly tedious bit.

eagerv · 10-05-2021 11:55AM

MJohnston wrote: »

ICE driving is just ****ing tedious once you've gone to an EV.

One thing I keep thinking about is how much easier learning to drive will be for my son — I reckon learning the gears at the same time as everything else was about 80% of the hard part of learning to drive. Without gears, you can just focus on getting the actual driving right.

Much safer and easier for everyone.

I have a young lad, who like thousands of others, is waiting for his test. While he has little interest in cars, he knows the future is not in ICE. But he still wants to do his test in a manual gearbox car.

the_amazing_raisin · 10-05-2021 12:00PM

fits wrote: »

I’ve driven automatic ice cars for years now and they are fine . It’s the manual transmission that’s the truly tedious bit.

True, but you can't beat an EV for smooth driving. Even automatics need to spend a bit of time figuring out which gear they need to be in

One thing that always bugged me was the fake revving and gear changes on the Prius and other hybrids. They use CVTs anyway so surely the engine RPM is generally the same

innrain · 10-05-2021 12:26PM

eagerv wrote: »

I have a young lad, who like thousands of others, is waiting for his test. While he has little interest in cars, he knows the future is not in ICE. But he still wants to do his test in a manual gearbox car.

I won't say driving manual won't give you an edge over automatic restricted drivers. But how many will use it. I personally can think of when I need to rent a van I might need to drive manual. My wife has automatic restricted driving license since 2012 and does not bother her a bit. We own an automatic ICE and she's pushing me to sell it as it does not compare with the EV

MJohnston · 10-05-2021 01:02PM

fits wrote: »

I’ve driven automatic ice cars for years now and they are fine . It’s the manual transmission that’s the truly tedious bit.

I mean, sure automatics are better than manuals, but there's still a massive gulf between a good automatic (of which I've driven many) and an EV for driving pleasure imo.

Now, this could be skewed by the fact that my i3 has essentially one-foot driving for the most part, as well as basically instant power whenever I need it no matter the speed.

I'm never going back to gears on my cars, automatic or not! The only ICE we have now is an automatic campervan (can't wait until those go electric!) which is by definition a bit of a pig to drive.

innrain · 10-05-2021 01:23PM

Just looked for fun on carzone.
excluding commercial reg
All cars 38.2k from which 14.2k auto 23.8k manual so automatic 37.17% or nearly 1:2
Filtering for 2020 and newer 9.1k total from which 4.5k auto 4.6k manual so basically 1:1. I wonder how it will look in 2 years time

liamog · 10-05-2021 01:25PM

Does anybody make a manual hybrid? Anytime we've rented a car recently it's ended up being an automatic because it was some form of hybrid.

MJohnston · 10-05-2021 01:27PM

We'll know the sea change for EVs has come when Carzone, or insurance companies websites, don't try and put cars into "automatic" or "manual" categories only.

slave1 · 10-05-2021 01:28PM

liamog wrote: »

Does anybody make a manual hybrid? Anytime we've rented a car recently it's ended up being an automatic because it was some form of hybrid.

Don't think so, the nearest are those bloody "mild" hybrids, called such as they cannot travel on electric alone, mHEV

ELM327 · 10-05-2021 01:29PM

Honda made a manual Civic and Insight hybrids

Nekarsulm · 10-05-2021 01:34PM

One problem of increasing numbers of EV's on the road, and of people taking their test in them, is that any job involving driving a van etc will require you to sit the test all over again..

kanuseeme · 10-05-2021 01:46PM

slave1 wrote: »

Don't think so, the nearest are those bloody "mild" hybrids, called such as they cannot travel on electric alone, mHEV

Whats the problem with them?, any increase in fuel efficiency should be welcomed.

A slight decrease in time spent at a charger because of a better charging curve is hailed as a great success.

Most people are delighted with their fuel efficient hybrids and would probably encourage their next choice to be a phev or ev.

Hybrid sales are at nearly 19% while EV at 6.18 % and phevs at 6.12%:D:D:D:D

Random EV thoughts.....

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