Random EV thoughts.....

ELM327

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Speaking of commercial use…

Well done this guy….

https://twitter.com/saicmaxus_ire/status/1387740529031536642?s=21

Clearly either greenwashing or a moron.


"Prices for the eDELIVER 9 start from €68,510 ex. VAT with the approval of a government electric vehicle grant"
https://fleet.ie/all-new-fully-electric-maxus-edeliver-9-intelligent-driving-for-a-greener-future/


I could have 3 renault master diesel vans for that.

RandomViewer

ELM327 wrote: »

Clearly either greenwashing or a moron.


"Prices for the eDELIVER 9 start from €68,510 ex. VAT with the approval of a government electric vehicle grant"
https://fleet.ie/all-new-fully-electric-maxus-edeliver-9-intelligent-driving-for-a-greener-future/


I could have 3 renault master diesel vans for that.

It's wild money for a Chinese vehicle

RandomViewer

RandomViewer wrote: »

It's wild money for a Chinese vehicle

Early adopters, get to pay for the development costs by the sounds of it.
As soon as others appear on the market, the price will dive.

MJohnston

So it's about €35k more than a VW Transporter. I wonder how much would be saved on diesel for a tradesperson? Anyone know a good average figure for km per annum for a van driver?

graememk

MJohnston wrote: »

So it's about €35k more than a VW Transporter. I wonder how much would be saved on diesel for a tradesperson? Anyone know a good average figure for km per annum for a van driver?

I dont have time to work it out, maybe someone else does, you could work it out the other way round too

how many kms, would it take to even break even. Also need to take into account that the van driver/company would be VAT registered too, so take 23% off the price of the diesel, also most likely will have a fuel card with a bit of discount on that too.

On 27,000km on an ev compared to a 45mpg car, I am saving roughly 1800 a year on fuel.

- Long way to go to get 35K!

the_amazing_raisin

ELM327 wrote: »

Clearly either greenwashing or a moron.


"Prices for the eDELIVER 9 start from €68,510 ex. VAT with the approval of a government electric vehicle grant"
https://fleet.ie/all-new-fully-electric-maxus-edeliver-9-intelligent-driving-for-a-greener-future/


I could have 3 renault master diesel vans for that.

I assume he's leasing it or got a deal for some free advertising for Maxus. Can't see it making much financial sense otherwise

kirving

Rented a short wheelbase Diesel Transit recently.

Probably only ever used to move furniture as opposed to anything heavier, but also probably only around Dublin traffic. It had averaged 8.0L/100km over the previous 2,000km , which I thought was excellent.

You'd want to be doing serious milage to justify a 68k van!

MJohnston

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

I assume he's leasing it or got a deal for some free advertising for Maxus. Can't see it making much financial sense otherwise

I mean, it could also be that he doesn't want to be spreading more diesel fumes around too!

ELM327

MJohnston wrote: »

So it's about €35k more than a VW Transporter. I wonder how much would be saved on diesel for a tradesperson? Anyone know a good average figure for km per annum for a van driver?

To save 40k per 3 year ownership cycle, which is just break even , you'd need to be spending 12k on fuel per year. that's 9000 litres. At 9l/100km, that's 100,000km per year. Just to break even.

kirving wrote: »

Rented a short wheelbase Diesel Transit recently.

Probably only ever used to move furniture as opposed to anything heavier, but also probably only around Dublin traffic. It had averaged 8.0L/100km over the previous 2,000km , which I thought was excellent.

You'd want to be doing serious milage to justify a 68k van!

I'd never make the money back, see the calcs above.
Even on a one van running for 24 hours (where you'd never get to charge it up anyway) it would struggle to do 100k per year.



I do a side business online, currently use a peugeot partner but the size is stopping me from doing more, and I want a bigger van. Current miles in the van is less than 10k per year. I carry mostly furniture and electronics. I'm looking at a H3L3 van size. I'd love to go electric but there are no options! When I can have a diesel van from China for 20k or a Renault for 24k, why would I pay 60+??

ELM327

MJohnston wrote: »

I mean, it could also be that he doesn't want to be spreading more diesel fumes around too!

He wont have to worry about that when he's out of business for flushing 40k down the toilet

RandomViewer

MJohnston wrote: »

I mean, it could also be that he doesn't want to be spreading more diesel fumes around too!

It's a Chinese Maxus, a 1995 tow truck will be billowing pure black smoke towing it home every few weeks so perhaps the opposite, he loves the smell of Derv in the morning

MJohnston

RandomViewer wrote: »

It's a Chinese Maxus, a 1995 tow truck will be billowing pure black smoke towing it home every few weeks so perhaps the opposite, he loves the smell of Derv in the morning

Aye, he obviously bought it for the breakdowns :rolleyes:

RandomViewer

MJohnston wrote: »

Aye, he obviously bought it for the breakdowns :rolleyes:

You do know of poorly thought of Maxus are? Their previous incarnation was based on the piss poor LDV version , but then what do you expect from something tacked together by lads paid pennies,

MJohnston

RandomViewer wrote: »

You do know of poorly thought of Maxus are? Their previous incarnation was based on the piss poor LDV version , but then what do you expect from something tacked together by lads paid pennies,

You mean like:
- Most smartphones
- Most TVs
- A lot of EVs
- Most clothes
- etc etc etc

I've said elsewhere I think there are plenty of humanitarian reasons to avoid Chinese made products. But if you're talking about quality, I'm afraid it's just not a good argument to say that they're automatically ****ty because they're Chinese made.

RandomViewer

MJohnston wrote: »

You mean like:
- Most smartphones
- Most TVs
- A lot of EVs
- Most clothes
- etc etc etc

I've said elsewhere I think there are plenty of humanitarian reasons to avoid Chinese made products. But if you're talking about quality, I'm afraid it's just not a good argument to say that they're automatically ****ty because they're Chinese made.

They are a Chinese made version of something that was created by British Leyland, if that doesn't send a shudder down the quality meter ,nothing will,

Clothes are mostly Bangladesh, China got too dear

RandomViewer

RandomViewer wrote: »

They are a Chinese made version of something that was created by British Leyland, if that doesn't send a shudder down the quality meter ,nothing will,

Clothes are mostly Bangladesh, China got too dear

British Leyland, the forced marriage between two rival companies that never got on and seemed to always defeat the "opposing" team with much of their developments in the 1970s. The quality was mostly down to a totally disinterested and pissed off workforce.


Is the design really 40 years old?

the_amazing_raisin

RandomViewer wrote: »

They are a Chinese made version of something that was created by British Leyland, if that doesn't send a shudder down the quality meter ,nothing will,

Clothes are mostly Bangladesh, China got too dear

So what you're saying is that the Chinese version is a considerable improvement?

RandomViewer

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

So what you're saying is that the Chinese version is a considerable improvement?

China copy, they do not create, give them the plans of a sh1t Austin Allegro and they'll produce an equally sh1tty Allegro, wonder has anyone found coke cans in the Maxus panels?
Toyota lost a lot of customers when they started to build cars outside of Japan, the "I'm here to collect a paycheck" mentality in the assembly plants saw quality drop ,

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

British Leyland, the forced marriage between two rival companies that never got on and seemed to always defeat the "opposing" team with much of their developments in the 1970s. The quality was mostly down to a totally disinterested and pissed off workforce.


Is the design really 40 years old?

Worse ,it was originally an FSO (Poland) design , its got GM bits, Daewoo bits and possibly some Leyland Sherpa leftovers

DrPhilG

Guessing game time

162 BMW i3 REx current value €19k

211 VW ID3 new price €42k

211 Kia e-Niro new price €38.5k

Who wants to hazard a guess at what they'll each be worth in 3 years?

fits

DrPhilG wrote: »

Guessing game time

162 BMW i3 REx current value €19k

211 VW ID3 new price €42k

211 Kia e-Niro new price €38.5k

Who wants to hazard a guess at what they'll each be worth in 3 years?

I don’t think they will still be selling e-Niro in 3 years time. But it’s holding its value pretty well so far. With the ID3 who knows? As long as VW don’t feck up with the software it should hold pretty well.

Black_Knight

DrPhilG wrote: »

Guessing game time

162 BMW i3 REx current value €19k

211 VW ID3 new price €42k

211 Kia e-Niro new price €38.5k

Who wants to hazard a guess at what they'll each be worth in 3 years?

11, 26, 22. Based on very little.

Kramer

DrPhilG wrote: »

DrPhilG wrote: »

Guessing game time

162 BMW i3 REx current value €19k

211 VW ID3 new price €42k

211 Kia e-Niro new price €38.5k

Who wants to hazard a guess at what they'll each be worth in 3 years?

Applying a very basic 40% depreciation assumption, the i3 could lose probably half of that of the new cars, so you could see €8k depreciation on the i3 versus €15k plus on any newer car. An ID.3 could lose more, possibly 50% in three years, it's somewhere in the 40/50% range IMO.

DrPhilG

Thanks Kramer

Why do you reckon the ID3 will drop harder?

the_amazing_raisin

DrPhilG wrote: »

Thanks Kramer

Why do you reckon the ID3 will drop harder?

I'm guessing it would since it's newer and starts from a higher number

The bigger the price, the bigger the the drop

RandomViewer

Wont get Finance on the BMW in 3 years so bigger drop?

Kramer

DrPhilG wrote: »

Why do you reckon the ID3 will drop harder?

It's the same with all new cars - the brunt of the depreciation is in year one. Possibly 20/25% in year one, 12/15% year two, levelling off somewhat on year three at 10%. Higher value cars tend to depreciate more & more quickly than mainstream cars too.

There have been some exceptions in EVs recently & some bought well (not naming names, but "the man from......." is one that springs to mind :pac:).

That new reg plate always comes at a cost.
Just a few years ago, cars like the Ioniq & early Leafs paid for themselves for high mileage drivers, in reduced fuel costs (free charging was popular with some Leaf drivers :pac:), but it's getting harder to justify a brand new EV on costs/savings alone these days.

That said, I'm looking at changing again after just a year - I'll never learn .

AndyBoBandy

Kramer wrote: »

That said, I'm looking at changing again after just a year - I'll never learn .

You no likey the Model 3 anymore?

What are you looking at as a replacement?

Mind you, you should see a decent sale value, and nowhere near the 20-25% depreciation expected in ‘other cars’

Kramer

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

You no likey the Model 3 anymore?

What are you looking at as a replacement?

Mind you, you should see a decent sale value, and nowhere near the 20-25% depreciation expected in ‘other cars’

I'm ambivalent about the Tesla. I'll invariably take the 530e over the Tesla, but in fairness, it's probably in the next class up from the Model 3. Thinking about it, I'm probably quite often unfair to the Model 3 as a result. The bimmer is far superior in terms of NVH, seat bolstering, refinement etc., but a €20k more expensive German executive car always should be.

I'd be most interested in the new EV6 - the quick one, but the LR Model 3 would tick more boxes going forward, especially before the €5k SEAI grant goes in July (for the LR). Mileage on the SR+ has been next to nothing since last July, whereas the Ioniq the year before covered 50k kms (lockdown).

Usual usage pattern may resume & the LR might be a good choice again, especially if Elon throws a few more superchargers here & there .

It's not a huge priority for now, but we'll see.

Black_Knight

VW be out of warranty to in 3 years, yeah? Kia will still have a few years left won't it?