Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

01-05-2021 08:53AM

VinLieger wrote: »

By not voting at all you indirectly are supporting the winning result of any democratic vote be it a referendum or election. Far too many people do not understand this and think not voting at all is some kind of protest when it actually just shows ignorance of the democratic process.

The poster has further clarified they just didn't vote for a major party though.

Yes I'm surprised at the likes of SF supporting this but it unfortunately shows how effective the anti fun brigade have managed to present this as a health issue when it has nothing to do with it.

Why would you surprised at that ?

Take a look at SF.

Their base is very much in the less affluent areas of society, lets put it that way.
Many people in these area would have suffered the affects of alcohol abuse far more than people from affluent areas.
That's part of the reason they are less affluent.

So no SF politician will get anywhere in these areas if they are not seen to be tackling areas such as alcohol abuse.

You can't imagine a SF politician in front of a room full of mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers etc who have suffused due to alcohol abuse by family members and say they are opposing measures to make alcohol less available ?

HBC08 · 01-05-2021 08:56AM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Why would you surprised at that ?

Take a look at SF.

Their base is very much in the less affluent areas of society, lets put it that way.
Many people in these area would have suffered the affects of alcohol abuse far more than people from affluent areas.
That's part of the reason they are less affluent.

So no SF politician will get anywhere in these areas if they are not seen to be tackling areas such as alcohol abuse.

You can't imagine a SF politician in front of a room full of mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers etc who have suffused due to alcohol abuse by family members and say they are opposing measures to make alcohol less available.

Being against this nonsense doesn't equate to supporting alcohol abuse.

01-05-2021 09:09AM

HBC08 wrote: »

Being against this nonsense doesn't equate to supporting alcohol abuse.

True, but we all know how the media and spin work.

Capt'n Midnight · 01-05-2021 11:58AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

it is an amazing coincidence that the extra cost of producing alcohol free beer is almost exactly the same as the duty on alcohol.

Removing the alcohol can be done in various ways like vacuum distillation or with enzymes. Nowhere near the cost of producing the beer.

E10 petrol is 10% alcohol so at €1.60 a litre you get 80g ethanol which is 8 units at 20c a unit. To give an idea of how little it costs to produce ethanol.
Yes you could separate ethanol from fuel by adding water , but there are other additives in fuel which are really nasty so it's not a good idea.

Technically since alcohol free beer could be considered a food like milk since it doesn't contain sugar or alcohol or added flavourings. Though I doubt the revenue would drop the VAT.

patrickbrophy18 · 01-05-2021 06:14PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Look I hate MUP but your all over the map with your righteous libertarian anger here, it's nothing close to price fixing however what it is is government unfairly supporting one portion of an industry over another.

First off, how is my "libertarian anger" "all over the map"?
Second off, MUP is price fixing as it was originally designed to prop up the pubs by preventing the off trade from being more competitive. It was conveniently reworded over the years to be public health related.

Thankfully, a copy of the 2011 manifesto was kept to preserve the original reason for MUP for public viewing.

As I mentioned many pages back, I think the only way pubs would be able to reap the fruits of their labours is to flat out abolish the measures from the Intoxicating Liquor Act of 2008 and make it less of a financial risk to publicans or would-be publicans.

Increased prices of late licenses, reducing the drink driving limit and curtailing opening hours of pubs have also played a huge role in destroying pub feasability.

Either way, government intervention of the pub and off license has done nothing but create resentment between the two trades.

Hotblack Desiato · 01-05-2021 07:39PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So no SF politician will get anywhere in these areas if they are not seen to be tackling areas such as alcohol abuse.

Jaysus wept.

This has nothing at all to do with alcohol abuse, why is off licence alcohol regarded as a massive health risk but pub alcohol not? This is all about kneecapping the offies and supporting the vintners - the ultimate in closed shops.

GhostyMcGhost · 02-05-2021 08:16PM

Finally, someone talking sense

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/minimum-unit-pricing-could-see-alcohol-in-ireland-twice-as-dear-as-north-1120894.html

For example if you look at overall alcohol consumption that's declined siginificantly here, so we had a decline of 6.6 per cent last year and that's the lowest level in 30 years, alcohol consumption now is 30 per cent lower overall than the peak in 2001 so there hasn't been anything that should trigger this reaction from Government

Reputable Rog · 02-05-2021 09:04PM

The tide is turning, I think there’s zero chance of this anytime soon. Border politicians very nervous.

kenmc · 02-05-2021 09:47PM

GhostyMcGhost wrote: »

Finally, someone talking sense

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/minimum-unit-pricing-could-see-alcohol-in-ireland-twice-as-dear-as-north-1120894.html

Tomorrow's headline: Drinks Ireland director Patricia Callan found dead. Gardai told to rule out foul play.

elperello · 02-05-2021 10:02PM

Meanwhile have a read of this letter supporting MUP in yesterday's Irish Times.

Pay particular attention to the long list of people who signed it.

They can't wait for you to pay more for a few drinks in your own house.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/the-price-of-alcohol-1.4552549

kenmc · 02-05-2021 10:12PM

elperello wrote: »

Meanwhile have a read of this letter supporting MUP in yesterday's Irish Times.

Pay particular attention to the long list of people who signed it.

They can't wait for you to pay more for a few drinks in your own house.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/the-price-of-alcohol-1.4552549

Paywalled

elperello · 02-05-2021 10:22PM

kenmc wrote: »

Paywalled

Works ok for me. Maybe you are over your quota of free access.

ShamNNspace · 02-05-2021 10:25PM

elperello wrote: »

Meanwhile have a read of this letter supporting MUP in yesterday's Irish Times.

Pay particular attention to the long list of people who signed it.

They can't wait for you to pay more for a few drinks in your own house.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/the-price-of-alcohol-1.4552549

Its no coincidence that all those who put their name to this nonsense are extremely well remunerated and completely disconnected from the lives of the average citizen

dubrov · 02-05-2021 10:47PM

elperello wrote:

Pay particular attention to the long list of people who signed it.

Are there any TDs in that list?

Looks like a short enough list of nobodies.

ShamNNspace · 02-05-2021 10:51PM

dubrov wrote: »

Are there any TDs in that list?

Looks like a short enough list of nobodies.

Frances Black for one

patrickbrophy18 · 03-05-2021 01:09AM

ShamNNspace wrote: »

Its no coincidence that all those who put their name to this nonsense are extremely well remunerated and completely disconnected from the lives of the average citizen

Many of them probably have a close relative or friend who succumbed to alcohol abuse or had a turbulent upbringing as a direct or indirect result of alcohol abuse. While I do sympathise with such individuals, I don't think the average Joe should be punished for this.

Many other nations don't have this issue. However, I do think the root cause is far more insideous than alcohol. Factors such as trauma and poor environments growing up can drive people to the gargle. So, we need to stop chains like these from taking root.

Atlantic Dawn · 03-05-2021 01:16AM

ShamNNspace wrote: »

Frances Black for one

She gave up drinking in 1989, she has zero relevance in the conversation. A house could be bought by one person on the average industrial wage back then, now that is not possible so people piss it up against the wall instead.

ShamNNspace · 03-05-2021 05:03AM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

She gave up drinking in 1989, she has zero relevance in the conversation. A house could be bought by one person on the average industrial wage back then, now that is not possible so people piss it up against the wall instead.

I was aware of her past addiction, a poster asked were there any politicians on the list, I replied that there was..... that is all

VinLieger · 03-05-2021 06:07AM

Disgusted to see the likes of Barnardos and the ISPCC on there, the idea that this will help children whose parents are alcoholics is fvcking absurd, addicts will get their fix no matter the cost meaning these children will be worse off under this idiocy

KrustyUCC · 03-05-2021 03:12PM

elperello wrote: »

Meanwhile have a read of this letter supporting MUP in yesterday's Irish Times.

Pay particular attention to the long list of people who signed it.

They can't wait for you to pay more for a few drinks in your own house.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/the-price-of-alcohol-1.4552549

"Minimum-unit pricing increases the price of only the cheapest alcohol"

This will be proven to be false

Newho we've the second dearest alcohol in Europe before this travesty comes in

Cheap alcohol in Ireland doesn't stack up

Tony EH · 03-05-2021 05:33PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

"Minimum-unit pricing increases the price of only the cheapest alcohol"

This will be proven to be false

Newho we've the second dearest alcohol in Europe before this travesty comes in

Cheap alcohol in Ireland doesn't stack up

Agreed. I read that and immediately cocked the eyebrow. Because that simply rings so, so, hollow. It sounds like someone who's just completely out of touch with the realities of Ireland.

elperello · 03-05-2021 06:02PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Disgusted to see the likes of Barnardos and the ISPCC on there, the idea that this will help children whose parents are alcoholics is fvcking absurd, addicts will get their fix no matter the cost meaning these children will be worse off under this idiocy

You could add the Children's Rights Alliance and what you have is a classic example of "mission creep".

These organisations are doing good work trying to improve children's lives but make the mistake of getting involved in campaigns which are not directly related to their objectives.

They have signed up to support legislation which will increase the price of drink for everyone, even those who have no children.

L1011 · 03-05-2021 06:03PM

ShamNNspace wrote: »

Frances Black for one

She's a Senator not a TD.

elperello · 03-05-2021 06:10PM

L1011 wrote: »

She's a Senator not a TD.

As a member of the Senate she would be correctly described as a politician.

Also worth noting that not one TD voted against MUP.

03-05-2021 06:16PM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Hmm. This thread has been going for about 5 years and we still don't have MUP. I think the idea that doom is "nigh" is starting to sound as credible as the Free Presbyterians.

I don't think price is the only thing that needs to change, but it's absolutely true that alcohol can be bought very cheaply here. Maybe not as cheaply as in Italy at nominal prices, but we don't have Italian salaries.

Irish Median household salary: approx €45,000
Italian Median household salary: approx €20,000

odyssey06 · 03-05-2021 06:21PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Hmm. This thread has been going for about 5 years and we still don't have MUP. I think the idea that doom is "nigh" is starting to sound as credible as the Free Presbyterians.
I don't think price is the only thing that needs to change, but it's absolutely true that alcohol can be bought very cheaply here. Maybe not as cheaply as in Italy at nominal prices, but we don't have Italian salaries.
Irish Median household salary: approx €45,000
Italian Median household salary: approx €20,000

Alcohol is much cheaper in France and Germany than here and their household salaries are significantly higher.
So relatively it is much cheaper for them... do they have noticeably larger problems with alcohol?
So not sure why price 'needs to change'???

ShamNNspace · 03-05-2021 06:37PM

L1011 wrote: »

She's a Senator not a TD.

My mistake, I could have sworn the first comment were "are there any politicians on the list"

EddieN75 · 03-05-2021 06:39PM

Well on the other hand carbon taxes went up again over the weekend.

03-05-2021 07:52PM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

odyssey06 wrote: »

Alcohol is much cheaper in France and Germany than here and their household salaries are significantly higher.
So relatively it is much cheaper for them... do they have noticeably larger problems with alcohol?
So not sure why price 'needs to change'???

France and Germany do have a big problem with alcohol, but in Ireland our culture is geared more toward binges. 75% of alcohol consumed here is in a binge, and fewer people consume more of the alcohol.

Gross median household salaries are not higher in France, and I'm not sure about Germany, but I'm pretty sure they're lower there too.

Where are you getting that information, that they have significantly higher salaries? I think you might be confusing PPP-adjusted salaries (Eurostat, OECD) with data produced by national statistics agencies. The French statistical agency INSEE gives their 2017 median disposable household income as €21,120.

I don't know what Germany's is. You'd probably have to speak German to find it. It's almost certainly less than ours, at €43,552.

France and Germany still have big problems with alcohol mind you. 50,000 alcohol deaths in France per year.

EddieN75 · 03-05-2021 08:47PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

France and Germany do have a big problem with alcohol, but in Ireland our culture is geared more toward binges. 75% of alcohol consumed here is in a binge, and fewer people consume more of the alcohol.

Gross median household salaries are not higher in France, and I'm not sure about Germany, but I'm pretty sure they're lower there too.

Where are you getting that information, that they have significantly higher salaries? I think you might be confusing PPP-adjusted salaries (Eurostat, OECD) with data produced by national statistics agencies. The French statistical agency INSEE gives their 2017 median disposable household income as €21,120.

I don't know what Germany's is. You'd probably have to speak German to find it. It's almost certainly less than ours, at €43,552.

France and Germany still have big problems with alcohol mind you. 50,000 alcohol deaths in France per year.

I'm not sure where you figures are coming from

https://www.finfacts-blog.com/2019/04/irish-median-income-at-13th-in-europe.html?m=1#:~:text=In%202017%2C%20median%20disposable%20income,8.6%25%20above%20the%20EU28%20average.

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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