What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

Frank Bullitt · 28-04-2021 05:39PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why would she die from having the AZ vaccine? :rolleyes:

She is afraid of the clots and there was a death in Quebec from it, or associated with it anyway.

Believe me I know, if they told me there was a shot of AZ for me, I would be there in a blink.

is_that_so · 28-04-2021 05:41PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

But would the same people be afraid of taking the pill? Popping a paracetamol for a headache? Getting pregnant? All of these have a higher risk of causing blood clots than the AZ vaccine.

People will do what they do, including fretting about why other people do things. This has changed us and some may find the reverse journey very tough including dealing with their concerns about the effect of vaccinations or certain vaccines.

Professor Moriarty · 28-04-2021 05:49PM

Enzokk wrote: »

Next time you jump to compare how terrible Ireland is doing as well, remember your post.

As for what you should if you live in those conditions, I don't know. How has Hong Kong fared? Seems like it will be almost impossible to keep people living in a dense urban environment from getting Covid and having massive deaths.

Indeed. Singapore has a mortality rate of 5 per million. Ireland's is 196 times greater.

secman · 28-04-2021 05:56PM

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

The media hysteria over AZ has hot home for me. My GF is a teach here in Canada has has been offered AZ, she is beside herself with the panic and said to me last night "I don't want covid and I don't want to die from AZ".

I thought being offered a vaccine would bring happiness to people, but it has terrified her to the core.

A teacher ! God almighty i despair....

Bass Reeves · 28-04-2021 06:24PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Indeed. Singapore has a mortality rate of 5 per million. Ireland's is 196 times greater.

What is there excess deaths??? Positive/ negative. A load them f countries are counting selectively

brickster69 · 28-04-2021 06:58PM

secman wrote: »

A teacher ! God almighty i despair....

I presume she is under 85. Italy and France are having 200 deaths a day in over 85's and were told by the Government they could not take it when the wave was starting, and most of them are too petrified to take it anyway now.

Hopefully things go ok for her.

fly_agaric · 28-04-2021 08:00PM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

I have no problem with them trying to get the money back.
But retrospectively trying to enforce poorly-written contracts overseen by a failed German defence minister and a third-rate Cypriot politician ?
Good luck with that.
You might wish to read the blog of that notable EU cheerleader Guy Verhofstadt - even he has distanced himself from the EU's cack-handed vaccine procurement programme.

It's funny, some time ago on this thread people were claiming that the EU wasn't and would likely never take legal action because they had no case and just unfairly snipe at the company in public to deflect from their failure. Now they are attacked for going to court (for same reasons).

I think (IMO) it's more about the principle of it than money, setting down a marker for future MNCs that may weigh up their options and decide it is a very good idea to privilege competing customers over the EU when they have to let people down, or to promise so much to everyone when perhaps they should have been more realistic or modest. God knows MNCs don't lack for power or arrogance in our modern world and it seems (to me) like this only gets worse as time passes.

About the "failed German defence minister and a third-rate Cypriot politician" procuring vaccines in the Commission, it has nothing to do with it and comes across a bit "Fog in channel Continent cut off", or "the wogs begin at Calais!"

Ardillaun · 29-04-2021 01:11AM

Got my first AZ jab today in Canada today, thank God.

Humans tend to overestimate certain risks and undercall others. It is true that vaccines do pose a tiny risk upfront and that healthy people can be killed by it, but how come we don’t worry so much about the hazards of driving to get the jab? Or driving anywhere for that matter?

McGiver · 29-04-2021 06:44AM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote:

It's hard to see how Ursula Von Der Leyen has performed anything other than poorly - she assumed personal control of vaccine procurement negotiations and the less said about invoking Article 16 the better. I'm just not sure whether suing AZ is a wise move - it'll be interesting to see what comes out in the wash.

Art 16 wasn't triggered.

Pretzill · 29-04-2021 07:09AM

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

She is afraid of the clots and there was a death in Quebec from it, or associated with it anyway.

Believe me I know, if they told me there was a shot of AZ for me, I would be there in a blink.

I can understand her fear, if she can chat with a healthcare professional and read the leaflet before it should put her mind at rest. It's really a one in a million side effect and they are trying to make sure anyone who sees symptoms associated know what to be aware of in the very unlikely event.

If she's vunerable to it covid would be far, far worse. The best vaccine is the first one your offered.

astrofool · 29-04-2021 08:57AM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

That's because of the outcry from our government.
It was a debacle for the EU whose unity in vaccines was undermined somewhat when Germany went ahead and negotiated its own side deal for 50 million vaccine shots - other states subsequently took their lead.
Fingers crossed Ireland's vaccine programme continues its improving record into May and June which I expect it to as more vaccines come on stream and the AZ restrictions have been relaxed.

Hang on, you said it was invoked, you can't backtrack that quickly.

You can amend your statement to "It was almost invoked".

It's also no surprise that the UK supply has been "constrained" while EU supply has been steadily increasing since that debacle.

astrofool · 29-04-2021 11:23AM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

I wrote invoking rather than invoked.
There is a difference.
And the EU supply has been steadily increasing because it started off from a very low base.

Good to see you're invoking a walk back of that statement then.

Dyr · 29-04-2021 12:12PM

McGiver wrote: »

Art 16 wasn't triggered.

No matter how much you try to memory hole it, it happened.

https://multimedia.europarl.europa.eu/en/ursula-von-der-leyen--president-of-the-european-commission-statement-on-triggering-article-16-of-northern-ireland-protocol_EP110960-V_v

Once again, we found out where we stood in the grand scheme of things with the EU.

robinph · 29-04-2021 12:16PM

astrofool wrote: »

Hang on, you said it was invoked, you can't backtrack that quickly.

You can amend your statement to "It was almost invoked".

It's also no surprise that the UK supply has been "constrained" while EU supply has been steadily increasing since that debacle.

The UK rate of vaccination hasn't changed by much at all. Towards the end of March they were hitting upwards of three quarters of a million jabs a day and nearly a million on one day, but either side of that bumper week it been consistently around half a million a day.

What has changed is the ratio between 1st and 2nd jabs. Nothing to show that delivery was impacted in any significant way.

dwayneshintzy · 29-04-2021 02:09PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

What is there excess deaths??? Positive/ negative. A load them f countries are counting selectively

Ah come on, are you seriously suggesting that places like Singapore and Hong Kong are undercounting COVID deaths by the tens of thousands? And that people won't have noticed?

Winters · 29-04-2021 02:21PM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

This is correct.
At the beginning of April the NHS warned of a potential shortfall due to supply issues but in reality this hasn't happened.
And as you say the ratio has changed to ensure more second jabs are delivered.
I presume they have specific targets of when they could run out of supplies before the limit of time between jabs is reached.

Im inclined to think the EU supply rate will surpass the UK insofar that our 1st jab to 2nd jab ratio will remain higher for longer. I wonder if the UK expected to be doing as many more 2nd jabs than 1st jabs at this point? It must have slowed down their 1st jab rate for the 30-35 bracket considerably.

IRISHSPORTSGUY · 29-04-2021 02:28PM

165,000 doses will be arriving tomorrow. Good stuff.

robinph · 29-04-2021 02:48PM

Winters wrote: »

Im inclined to think the EU supply rate will surpass the UK insofar that our 1st jab to 2nd jab ratio will remain higher for longer. I wonder if the UK expected to be doing as many more 2nd jabs than 1st jabs at this point? It must have slowed down their 1st jab rate for the 30-35 bracket considerably.

The UK has gone from 45 to 44 to 42 as the category open for anyone across the country to book this week. Various individual regions are already doing 30 or even lower in some cases depending on the spread of the population age range locally.

It was mentioned in one of the stats ages ago before they even finished the top 9 categories of priority groups that 20% of the 18-50 age group had already been vaccinated just by being in one of the other groups before they began opening it up for general access just based on age.

Frank Bullitt · 29-04-2021 03:18PM

secman wrote: »

A teacher ! God almighty i despair....

What does that mean?

is_that_so · 29-04-2021 04:32PM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

Yup, I read in the Sunday Times at the weekend that the NHS will be inviting everyone in the 30+ age group to apply online for vaccines by the end of this week.

It's great what you can do when you have supplies. We should be knocking on that door in about 6 weeks.

is_that_so · 29-04-2021 04:57PM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

I agree.
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't ask why we and much of Europe are so far behind.

Supplies is largely why and the company named in this thread. We are putting the vast majority of ours into arms within 7 days, save the surplus we need to hold.

fly_agaric · 29-04-2021 05:09PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Supplies is largely why and the company named in this thread. We are putting the vast majority of ours into arms within 7 days, save the surplus we need to hold.

I recall one of the Europhobic posters on the thread speculated that the Commission/EU were holding back or hiding the vaccines somehow. :rolleyes:

It may be that the Commisioners or MEPs drink the AZ vaccines with dinner as a delicacy, kind of like the Chinese eating rare animals etc. that started all this off in the first place!

Tippbhoy1 · 29-04-2021 05:09PM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

The legal action the EU is bringing against AZ in a Belgian court will determine who was to blame for those lack of supplies.
It will come down to an interpretation of contract law and I'm not entirely convinced the EU is going to succeed.
Certainly Guy Verhofstadt - who would have the EU written through him like a stick of rock if you cut him in half - thinks the EU was at fault in not making them watertight.

Just because a supplier might be able to worm out of a contract doesn’t mean they suddenly become blameless ffs.

Tippbhoy1 · 29-04-2021 05:27PM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

Don't forget that this is a supplier that is currently delivering non-profit low-cost vaccines to more than 100 countries around the world, many of them poor and unable to afford the Pfizer and other jabs, being sued by an organisation whose leading countries have spent weeks questioning the effectiveness of the vaccine leading to millions of doses being unused in their countries.
I'm not sure the EU has considered the optics in all of this.

It depends on what optic you look through. All these little sound bytes of how great AZ are as if they’re doing this for charity are pathetic. They’ve licenced out something that was licenced to them, with a short term “at cost” that they can choose when to expire. Unfortunately for them, their gamble on the boosters and entering the vaccine market as a serious player are toast. If the EU never heard of AZ we would have been better off here in Ireland. A joke of a company.

is_that_so · 29-04-2021 05:39PM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

The legal action the EU is bringing against AZ in a Belgian court will determine who was to blame for those lack of supplies.
It will come down to an interpretation of contract law and I'm not entirely convinced the EU is going to succeed.
Certainly Guy Verhofstadt - who would have the EU written through him like a stick of rock if you cut him in half - thinks the EU was at fault in not making them watertight.

They never had them to give to the EU is what was the cause of it and they are still at it this week. Once that legal dance has been completed, regardless of how it turns out the EU will not order any more from them. In the real world this is an unreliable supplier you would not do business with again.

They are a company who've never made a vaccine and but for Hancock's insistence on guaranteed deliveries Oxford would have paired up with a real vaccine maker, Merck. It's also notable that they've never applied for FDA approval, through their own messed up trial data and the US is now happily giving away stock it will never use. In our case, once the over 50s are done that's the end of it here.

Thank God for Pfizer is all I say!

is_that_so · 29-04-2021 05:57PM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

Do you think the Irish people who will have received 800,000 AstraZeneca jabs by the end of June will be as equally ungrateful ?

It's nothing to do with being ungrateful. The product is good, even with caveats, and were it offered to me at any point I'd take it. It's the company supply chain that has been a disaster but AZ can go and save the world with my blessing.

29-04-2021 06:05PM

is_that_so wrote: »

They never had them to give to the EU is what was the cause of it and they are still at it this week. Once that legal dance has been completed, regardless of how it turns out the EU will not order any more from them. In the real world this is an unreliable supplier you would not do business with again.

They are a company who've never made a vaccine and but for Hancock's insistence on guaranteed deliveries Oxford would have paired up with a real vaccine maker, Merck. It's also notable that they've never applied for FDA approval, through their own messed up trial data and the US is now happily giving away stock it will never use. In our case, once the over 50s are done that's the end of it here.

Thank God for Pfizer is all I say!

It was Oxford that didn’t want to partner with Merck and chose AZ.

is_that_so · 29-04-2021 06:17PM

Aegir wrote: »

It was Oxford that didn’t want to partner with Merck and chose AZ.

The narrative is that Hancock said No to Merck so if you have an alternative link please share.

is_that_so · 29-04-2021 06:23PM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

By the end of this year AstraZeneca will be the largest single supplier of Covid vaccines in the world.
It will have produced three billion doses.
Pfizer–BioNTech 1.3 billion doses.
Sputnik V, Sinopharm, Sinovac, and Johnson & Johnson one billion doses each.
Moderna targets producing 600 million doses and Convidecia 500 million doses.
It means that by the end of this year there will be 1.5 billion people on this planet protected by an AZ vaccine which will not have made the company a single cent in profit and all this achieved in the space of about 18 months.
I don't know about you but I consider that to be a wonder of modern science and philanthropy.
Being delayed a few weeks from getting a jab is small beer compared to an achievement like that.

My context here is that they've been very shoddy partners in our rollout but this is all good for the rest of the world. We will have CureVac coming through and a lot more Pfizer so will have no further need for it.

And Pfizer will be the biggest, at 2.5bn according to them.

odyssey06 · 29-04-2021 06:31PM

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

It depends on what optic you look through. All these little sound bytes of how great AZ are as if they’re doing this for charity are pathetic. They’ve licenced out something that was licenced to them, with a short term “at cost” that they can choose when to expire. Unfortunately for them, their gamble on the boosters and entering the vaccine market as a serious player are toast. If the EU never heard of AZ we would have been better off here in Ireland. A joke of a company.

What nonsense.
AZ is our second most used vaccine in Ireland.
It got here ahead of Johnson et al and in more quantities than Moderna.

There is no basis to say we would be better off without AZ.
Absolutely zero.
It is so far detached from reality it is obvious you have an agenda against the vaccine that has nothing to do with it as a vaccine. It shows yoh have zero concern for the people the AZ vaccine is currently protecting in the EU.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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