Random EV thoughts.....

RandomViewer · 26-04-2021 02:19PM

MJohnston wrote: »

I know you're determined to find every possible angle you can to attack EVs, but this one is truly absurd!

In the electric future (and that means fully electric - it will take decades to rid ourselves of the last ICE vehicles in ownership) there will be intercity service stations as people will want some place to stop, snack, and piss. In addition, as said above, charging points will be all over shopping centres and 'destinations'.

There might be some car wash spots or something like that around cities and towns, but we won't need filling stations to the extent that we do at the minute. Lots of prime development land that the station owners will make a pretty penny off of!

Service stations is a large source of employment and revenue for the state, free charging is not something that will be happening in the future, having assigned charging stations whether at existing service stations or sectioned off area of car parks they will be for profit, most stations are on the outskirts of towns so no longer prime development

liamog · 26-04-2021 02:22PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

Service stations is a large source of employment and revenue for the state, free charging is not something that will be happening in the future

I don't think anyone is claiming there is a future in free charging. Charging will be supplied at cost price just as fuel is, and done so in a location that incentivises other economic activity

mfceiling · 26-04-2021 02:49PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

Service stations is a large source of employment and revenue for the state, free charging is not something that will be happening in the future, having assigned charging stations whether at existing service stations or sectioned off area of car parks they will be for profit, most stations are on the outskirts of towns so no longer prime development

It's not a large source of employment for the state. If it was the number of filling stations wouldn't have dropped as dramatically as it has in the last 20 years.

Of course there will be an expense to charge in the future. Government gets a huge tax take from fossil fuels and they'll need to recoup that elsewhere.

liamog · 26-04-2021 02:53PM

mfceiling wrote: »

Of course there will be an expense to charge in the future. Government gets a huge tax take from fossil fuels and they'll need to recoup that elsewhere.

Cost to charge will probably stay pretty flat, we're more likely to move towards a system of road usage pricing. It has the double effect of also acting as an incentive to switch, as you can make all vehicles pay the usage tax without removing the duties on petrol and diesel.

Taxing EV charging is too difficult as it's too easy to find an alternative source of electricity.

mr potato head · 26-04-2021 03:06PM

liamog wrote: »

we're more likely to move towards a system of road usage pricing.

I have wondered recently about the potential use of RFID toll tags for this sort of thing, why use a piece of paper for a tax disc when insurance and tax disc could be rolled into this.

I know the argument against it would be that it's essentially tracking people, so some oversight/safeguards would have to be in place.

the_amazing_raisin · 26-04-2021 03:19PM

mr potato head wrote: »

I have wondered recently about the potential use of RFID toll tags for this sort of thing, why use a piece of paper for a tax disc when insurance and tax disc could be rolled into this.

I know the argument against it would be that it's essentially tracking people, so some oversight/safeguards would have to be in place.

Personally I'd like to see a system where motorway tolling is a tag on/tag off system instead of a toll booth that everyone tries to avoid. Fairer IMO and better use of resources as it discourages people hopping on the motorway for a single exit

Could do something similar for cities, have congestion charges in Dublin to encourage people to use public transport or cycle

Truth be told, road tax doesn't pay for the road maintainence and hasn't for years. It's just another income source for the government. All the tax revenue goes into a single budget and is doled out by the government

liamog · 26-04-2021 03:25PM

Road Tax is only paid by a subset of Irish people who are angry at cyclists

Motor Tax is what everyone else pays and goes into general taxation

MJohnston · 26-04-2021 03:59PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

Service stations is a large source of employment and revenue for the state

Are they? I can't imagine they're a huge source of employment. They may be a source of revenue, but only in terms of fuel duty, which is going to go anyway :shrugs:

free charging is not something that will be happening in the future

It's not really something that's happening right now. Most EV owners are fine with paying for charging, given that we all used to pay much more for petrol or diesel anyway. Non-issue.

No offence, but if you're going to come into an EV thread trying to spread disinformation in order to put people off, you've definitely come to the wrong forum :pac:

timsey tiger · 26-04-2021 04:20PM

slave1 wrote: »

LOL, how much do petrol stations make off a litre of fuel? Look at the wholesale rates of electricity and how much like of Ionity are charging.

When stopping for a charge folk will pop in for a tea/coffee/snack and this is where the margins are, there is significantly higher chance of this whilst waiting for an EV charge versus a liquid fuel stop....

In 10,000km of ev driving, I've never once darkened the forecourt of a filling station. I used a public charger once, just to know how it was done. They may not make money form the petrol, but where is the "footfall" without it?

the_amazing_raisin · 26-04-2021 04:39PM

liamog wrote: »

Road Tax is only paid by a subset of Irish people who are angry at cyclists

Motor Tax is what everyone else pays and goes into general taxation

We should lobby to change it to 'Engine Tax' so that EVs are exempt

the_amazing_raisin · 26-04-2021 04:41PM

timsey tiger wrote: »

In 10,000km of ev driving, I've never once darkened the forecourt of a filling station. I used a public charger once, just to know how it was done. They may not make money form the petrol, but where is the "footfall" without it?

There's always people travelling long distances, so there'll always be some people using motorway services

As for urban chargers, there's a lot of people who have no home charging and probably won't for a long time, so they'll need to use public chargers

Silent Running · 26-04-2021 05:27PM

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

We should lobby to change it to 'Engine Tax' so that EVs are exempt

Well, isn't the current tax based on emissions? Yet they charge zero emission cars €120 per year.

timsey tiger · 26-04-2021 06:15PM

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

There's always people travelling long distances, so there'll always be some people using motorway services

As for urban chargers, there's a lot of people who have no home charging and probably won't for a long time, so they'll need to use public chargers

There are certainly people currently without access to home charging, but that won't last, the political pressure over this will increase with ev adoption and of course car ownership esp. in urban environments is going to fall, it is already doing so in the younger cohorts.

RandomViewer · 26-04-2021 08:26PM

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Absolutely, and if county councils had any forethought they'd be putting fast charging hubs into town centers to help bring in some business and revitalise them somewhat

I think shopping centres, supermarkets, gyms and restaurants will be the main locations for 50kW hubs. 1-2 hours parked wouldn't be abnormal for these types of business and 50kW can delivery plenty of power in that time. IMO, if you had a 300kW grid connection, then 6x 50kW chargers would be better than 2x 150kW ones

Save the HPCs for motorway services and outside citied where there's more need

AC parks for housing estates, apartments, train stations hotels and workplaces

Now I just need someone to listen to my grand plans

Don't eat the head off me but aren't the town centres to be pedestrianised

the_amazing_raisin · 26-04-2021 09:24PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

Don't eat the head off me but aren't the town centres to be pedestrianised

I'd actually be happy with a lot of town centers being pedestrianised or made more pedestrian friendly

There'll always be a road somewhere nearby, and a parking lot for those folks who need to drive to town, so if there was a row of chargers there that'd be an ideal setup I think

RandomViewer · 26-04-2021 11:49PM

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

I'd actually be happy with a lot of town centers being pedestrianised or made more pedestrian friendly

There'll always be a road somewhere nearby, and a parking lot for those folks who need to drive to town, so if there was a row of chargers there that'd be an ideal setup I think

I think the Green plan will be rented parking spaces away from the town centre with some sort of bus or tram into the centre,

Kramer · 27-04-2021 12:02AM

RandomViewer wrote: »

I think the Green plan will be rented parking spaces away from the town centre with some sort of bus or tram into the centre,

You'd want to mind out for the wolves though

.

DrPhilG · 28-04-2021 12:20PM

So what are the views on what happens next, with the grant changes etc. Will the overall price of EVs increase? If so, will the second hand values bump up a little too?

Or will the manufacturers all just drop their prices to match the grant reduction?

I'm still ticking over a possible e-Niro switch but I'm wondering about 2 things:

1 - will the second hand price of the Niro increase if I wait.

2 - will my i3 value increase at all if I hold off on selling it.

slave1 · 28-04-2021 02:48PM

1 - will the second hand price of the Niro increase if I wait.
Perhaps, it's got desirable range and very good rep

2 - will my i3 value increase at all if I hold off on selling it.
I don't think so, it's an aged REX, 4 seater, both of which would go against it I think, that and less range than newer cars coming out today...

the_amazing_raisin · 28-04-2021 03:31PM

DrPhilG wrote: »

So what are the views on what happens next, with the grant changes etc. Will the overall price of EVs increase? If so, will the second hand values bump up a little too?

Or will the manufacturers all just drop their prices to match the grant reduction?

I'm still ticking over a possible e-Niro switch but I'm wondering about 2 things:

1 - will the second hand price of the Niro increase if I wait.

2 - will my i3 value increase at all if I hold off on selling it.

What happened in the UK was that after the government lowered the cap on the grant, all the manufacturers suddenly came out with a lower spec which was still within the grant amount

I imagine a similar scenario will happen here, although you'll be getting into the true Paddy spec region (left mirror is included, right one is an extra :rolleyes:)

I don't see the price floor on new EVs dropping just yet either, they're all sticking to the roughly €27-29k region. Until someone blinks I don't see new EVs going below this level, unless you're getting a deal

Hard to know what'll happen on 2nd hand EVs, for a price jump to happen you kind of need everyone to do it and crowd psychology might prevent that

I think the E-Niro holds value extremely well so it'll probably stay where it is, the i3 might drop unfortunately because depreciation is still the main factor of value

innrain · 28-04-2021 04:22PM

I think in UK the 35k limit is right there at the affordability point. Some would argue but a Passat starts at 35k which is a common enough car. In our case 60k is a quite high ceiling that just few cars are above it: from Tesla all except 3SR+, VW id4 Max, maybe the newcomers IQ5 EV 6at high spec what else?
The rest would be unaffected so no reason to reduce the prices.
VW with Max @ 62k has a potential to drop 2k but a heat pump would then cost you 6.5k so I really doubt it is going to happen.
A 3LR non-white @66K hard to believe a 10% drop.

mfceiling · 28-04-2021 04:34PM

What is it with taxi drivers and parking at EV chargers.

I'm at my local circle k charging. When I pulled in there was a taxi (diesel) in one of the spots and he was reading the paper. He pulled out after 15 minutes and immediately another lad in a Berlingo has pulled in and is on his phone.

There is loads of room to park elsewhere but no, take the EV spot.

Thankfully nobody else has pulled in to charge but tough luck if they were.

TitianGerm · 28-04-2021 05:00PM

mfceiling wrote: »

What is it with taxi drivers and parking at EV chargers.

I'm at my local circle k charging. When I pulled in there was a taxi (diesel) in one of the spots and he was reading the paper. He pulled out after 15 minutes and immediately another lad in a Berlingo has pulled in and is on his phone.

There is loads of room to park elsewhere but no, take the EV spot.

Thankfully nobody else has pulled in to charge but tough luck if they were.

It'd be funny to pull up behind him, block him in and stretch your cable and start charging.

Sorry boss I'll be here for 45 minutes before I'm ready to leave :pac:

DrPhilG · 29-04-2021 10:52AM

Thoughts on this? Figured a new thread would make sense rather than dumping here.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058182006/1/#post117029058

JohnC. · 29-04-2021 01:53PM

I suppose it’s not always a charge point placement that at fault…

the_amazing_raisin · 29-04-2021 03:01PM

JohnC. wrote: »

I suppose it’s not always a charge point placement that at fault…

There's no such thing as bad parking at chargers

It'd be nice if car companies could read some consensus on where to put the charging port

MJohnston · 29-04-2021 03:47PM

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

There's no such thing as bad parking at chargers

It'd be nice if car companies could read some consensus on where to put the charging port

That isn't really the problem in this case though

charlieIRL · 29-04-2021 03:50PM

obi604 wrote: »

Panning a trip tomorrow out around Moycullen, Ma’am cross and Oughterard.

From ESB map, it’s seems there are no chargers in this general direction.

Any one know offhand of any not listed on Ecars map?

The charger at the Station House in Clifden was broken for months but was replaced with a new one recently. You could always top up a the FCP in Newcastle before you head out.

AndyBoBandy · 29-04-2021 04:16PM

Speaking of commercial use…

Well done this guy….

https://twitter.com/saicmaxus_ire/status/1387740529031536642?s=21

Black_Knight · 29-04-2021 04:58PM

obi604 wrote: »

Panning a trip tomorrow out around Moycullen, Ma’am cross and Oughterard.

From ESB map, it’s seems there are no chargers in this general direction.

Any one know offhand of any not listed on Ecars map?

charlieIRL wrote: »

The charger at the Station House in Clifden was broken for months but was replaced with a new one recently. You could always top up a the FCP in Newcastle before you head out.

Better late than never. :pac:

Random EV thoughts.....

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