Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

28-04-2021 04:31PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Complete back of the envelope guess on this. 1-2 more weeks of 65-69 , then 3 weeks of 60-64 bringing us to about the end of May, when they could start on the 55-59 with J&J and possibly AZ. The 50-54 could then be done late June early July with the remainder. In the meantime there would have to be concurrent younger groups getting jabs but 450K a week would fly through people.

Gp's are already doing appointments for over 50's
My brother got a text today
He is getting his 1st jab next week
He has an appointment for the 2nd one in the text too,so its not the johnson

Charles Babbage · 28-04-2021 04:32PM

hmmm wrote: »

The problem with that (and same issue with the AZ) is you end up with a surplus of these vaccines and the group remaining are the younger groups which are more likely to have worse side-effects. Ethically I couldn't give a 20 year-old female the AZ vaccine, when we won't give it to a 40 year-old.

We're backed into a corner at that point - it's why a lower age limit, or something like allowing males of any age to get the J&J vaccine would have been better just in my non-expert opinion. I think we will end up wasting hundreds of thousands of one-dose vaccines which could have gone to the 40 year old and up group, and it costing us a few extra weeks as a consequence.

Make the J&J available in June on an elective waiver basis, perhaps in pharmacies. The one shot aspect would be popular and perhaps men would mostly avail of it, but it would still be used.

is_that_so · 28-04-2021 04:33PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

Gp's are already doing appointments for over 50's
My brother got a text today
He is getting his 1st jab next week
He has an appointment for the 2nd one in the text too,so its not the johnson

Good for him! Is he Group 4 or 7 by any chance?

Valhallapt · 28-04-2021 04:36PM

It's all in the messaging. Telling those 50-59 they have to wait until June, but 40-49 can start now won't go down well. But if it was explained as the two groups are to be merged into one 40-59 age single group, with AZ + J&J the preferred vaccine for those over 50 and over Pfizer + Moderna preferred for those under 50, that sounds much more palatable..

stephenjmcd · 28-04-2021 04:36PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

Gp's are already doing appointments for over 50's
My brother got a text today
He is getting his 1st jab next week
He has an appointment for the 2nd one in the text too,so its not the johnson

They've been doing high risk for a while regardless of age using Pfizer or Moderna as per NIAC guidance since AZ was ruled out

Russman · 28-04-2021 04:38PM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Make the J&J available in June on an elective waiver basis, perhaps in pharmacies. The one shot aspect would be popular and perhaps men would mostly avail of it, but it would still be used.

Not arguing with you, but what does the waiver actually mean in practical terms ? What would you be waiving ?

I'd imagine it would put NIAC in a bind ethically - probably ok if a few hundred did it, but you could have thousands trying to get it that way, and I'd assume NIAC would be of a mind that they gave their advice for a reason, and a few exceptions were allowed but not a free for all.

Call me Al · 28-04-2021 04:40PM

Gael23 wrote: »

Can they not just skip healthy 50-59 year olds until J&J comes on stream?

I can't see how they can.
They justified the move to age based rollout by saying there was a risk of poor outcomes the older you were.

They can't really turn around now and give a lie to the whole process by skipping over these age groups and going straight to the 45-49 year olds.

MerlinSouthDub · 28-04-2021 04:42PM

Call me Al wrote: »

I can't see how they can.
They justified the move to age based rollout by saying there was a risk of poor outcomes the older you were.

They can't really turn around now and give a lie to the whole process by skipping over these age groups and going straight to the 45-49 year olds.

They can, and should, if it's only a matter of weeks.

Pretzill · 28-04-2021 04:43PM

I'm 50's group and I will be getting my vax this week (to my surprise and delight) I would be considered cohort 7.

Zipppy · 28-04-2021 04:45PM

Pretzill wrote: »

I'm 50's group and I will be getting my vax this week (to my surprise and delight) I would be considered cohort 7.

I'm cohort 4, had cancelled vaccination 2 weeks ago and have heard zip since...this is crazy...
Did they say which flavour you'll be getting?

Russman · 28-04-2021 04:45PM

Call me Al wrote: »

I can't see how they can.
They justified the move to age based rollout by saying there was a risk of poor outcomes the older you were.

They can't really turn around now and give a lie to the whole process by skipping over these age groups and going straight to the 45-49 year olds.

But they wouldn't be (if they did that). They'd be adjusting the roll out to account for the safety issues and medical advice with two of the vaccines. It's all in the communications with it though, if they do. They'd have to highlight that the 50s would still be fully covered first anyway and promote that being fully covered asap is the goal.
I think they'll ultimately play it safe and risk having unused J&J and extending by a couple of weeks as necessary.

PhilOssophy · 28-04-2021 04:46PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Which is why I think NIAC may be forced to do a u-turn eventually (and especially if the US etc are still vaccinating away with it with no major issues).

People might be willing to accept delays in the programme at the moment but I don't think the mood will be there for it in mid to late June.

Agree fully.

hmmm wrote: »

The problem with that (and same issue with the AZ) is you end up with a surplus of these vaccines and the group remaining are the younger groups which are more likely to have worse side-effects. Ethically I couldn't give a 20 year-old female the AZ vaccine, when we won't give it to a 40 year-old.

We're backed into a corner at that point - it's why a lower age limit, or something like allowing males of any age to get the J&J vaccine would have been better just in my non-expert opinion. I think we will end up wasting hundreds of thousands of one-dose vaccines which could have gone to the 40 year old and up group, and it costing us a few extra weeks as a consequence.

Yeah exactly, why set such an arbitrary age just because of a TINY few adverse impacts in millions of people?

Russman wrote: »

One thing I really can't see happening though is NIAC changing advice based on economic factors. That's just not going to happen IMHO.

I definitely wouldn't want NIAC to change advice on economic factors, but they should at least be a serious medical justification for the age parameters they set. Saying "yeah 50, but if you haven't anything else, it can be given younger" is a joke. To me, that sounds like "we'll give it to what we have a supply for, but beyond that....." which makes no sense whatsoever.

Either it is safe to be given or it is not....and if they come up with a random figure, its going to be hard to justify "yeah we changed our mind from 3 weeks ago" to lower it to 40/30/whatever.

Russman · 28-04-2021 04:51PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Agree fully.

Yeah exactly, why set such an arbitrary age just because of a TINY few adverse impacts in millions of people?

I definitely wouldn't want NIAC to change advice on economic factors, but they should at least be a serious medical justification for the age parameters they set. Saying "yeah 50, but if you haven't anything else, it can be given younger" is a joke. To me, that sounds like "we'll give it to what we have a supply for, but beyond that....." which makes no sense whatsoever.

Either it is safe to be given or it is not....and if they come up with a random figure, its going to be hard to justify "yeah we changed our mind from 3 weeks ago" to lower it to 40/30/whatever.

I don't disagree, but my own personal opinion is that the wording about not having anything else etc etc was the most politically correct way they could find to say it could be given to the hard to reach groups previously mentioned. If they went ahead and mentioned them specifically there'd be uproar.

average_runner · 28-04-2021 04:51PM

Call me Al wrote: »

I can't see how they can.
They justified the move to age based rollout by saying there was a risk of poor outcomes the older you were.

They can't really turn around now and give a lie to the whole process by skipping over these age groups and going straight to the 45-49 year olds.

They will skip them if they have to. They aren't going to waste vaccines.
Question is will the number of J&J cover all the 50-59? So they need to balance that first

PhilOssophy · 28-04-2021 04:56PM

Russman wrote: »

I don't disagree, but my own personal opinion is that the wording about not having anything else etc etc was the most politically correct way they could find to say it could be given to the hard to reach groups previously mentioned. If they went ahead and mentioned them specifically there'd be uproar.

I don't disagree either!

But the only thing I would say, is the vaccine is either safe or it is not. If it isn't, then NIAC should have been able to explain why it isn't. If it is, it should be allowed for all age groups. Either the data backs up their decision, or it leaves their decision as very questionable.

Hypothetical situation - if Pfizer/Moderna had a massive malfunction with supply tomorrow, it'd be allowed for all age groups. If it is safe then, its safe today.

Having 26k of them sitting in a fridge is madness.

28-04-2021 04:58PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Good for him! Is he Group 4 or 7 by any chance?

He has bad asthma,is that 4 or 7 ?
I've my eldest brother minus a spleen,whats the story with that? They've been done as a priority in the North and UK but google for here has dug up nothing

average_runner · 28-04-2021 04:58PM

Zipppy wrote: »

I'm cohort 4, had cancelled vaccination 2 weeks ago and have heard zip since...this is crazy...
Did they say which flavour you'll be getting?

Have you contacted them? People will fall through the cracks, its a massive job and we don't have the software to handle it.

You need to reach out to them.

is_that_so · 28-04-2021 05:03PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

He has bad asthma,is that 4 or 7 ?
I've my eldest brother minus a spleen,whats the story with that? They've been done as a priority in the North and UK but google for here has dug up nothing

I'm guessing that's considered a group 4 for asthma as that seems to be what they are doing right now. Here is a list of groups for you. On your eldest brother a GP call might be best to clarify.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/39038-provisional-vaccine-allocation-groups/

Zipppy · 28-04-2021 05:04PM

average_runner wrote: »

Have you contacted them? People will fall through the cracks, its a massive job and we don't have the software to handle it.

You need to reach out to them.

I've tried office of consultant who put me in Cohort4, GP, HSE....nada....

I dunno where to turn now..

Vaccination was cancelled cos of the AZ mess 2 weeks ago..

Zipppy · 28-04-2021 05:07PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

He has bad asthma,is that 4 or 7 ?
I've my eldest brother minus a spleen,whats the story with that? They've been done as a priority in the North and UK but google for here has dug up nothing

I'm minus a spleen too (amongst other things)...It used to be listed high risk here but somewhere along the line the HSE removed it entirely.
I'm aware if I was in the UK I would have been told to shield indoors for last year...over here .. nothing

odyssey06 · 28-04-2021 05:10PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

He has bad asthma,is that 4 or 7 ?
I've my eldest brother minus a spleen,whats the story with that? They've been done as a priority in the North and UK but google for here has dug up nothing

Severe Asthma is Group 7.
Severe seems to be defined as regular use of oral steroids and if you have been hospitalised for asthma but not 100% sure.

irishlad. · 28-04-2021 05:12PM

According to ECDC we now have 400,800 doses of Astrazeneca delivered, meaning a delivery of 9,600 this week. Sounds very small?

28-04-2021 05:15PM

is_that_so wrote: »

I'm guessing that's considered a group 4 for asthma as that seems to be what they are doing right now. Here is a list of groups for you. On your eldest brother a GP call might be best to clarify.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/39038-provisional-vaccine-allocation-groups/

Thanks for that,it refers to chapter 3 of the general immunisation guidelines which includes asplenia
So on that basis I should tell him to contact his gp?

is_that_so · 28-04-2021 05:17PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

Thanks for that,it refers to chapter 3 of the general immunisation guidelines which includes asplenia
So on that basis I should tell him to contact his gp?

I certainly would. At least he'll have it clarified.

Faugheen · 28-04-2021 05:19PM

Reading people's reactions on Twitter is depressing.

For example today, 19,000 extra jabs into peoples arms and people still wondering why it's not 40k+.

Like Christ, do they think these just magically land in GP surgeries at 9am on Monday morning and completely ignore the fact that a lot of planning and logistics goes into this?

Whinging b*stards, the lot of them. Even if it was 40k they'd be crying the next week if it stayed stable or slightly lower.

RavenBea17b · 28-04-2021 05:20PM

UK places further order of Pfizer.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56921018

28-04-2021 05:21PM

Zipppy wrote: »

I'm minus a spleen too (amongst other things)...It used to be listed high risk here but somewhere along the line the HSE removed it entirely.
I'm aware if I was in the UK I would have been told to shield indoors for last year...over here .. nothing

Asplenia is on the list for cohort 7 via the hse immunisation guidelines

namloc1980 · 28-04-2021 05:22PM

Zipppy wrote: »

I'm cohort 4, had cancelled vaccination 2 weeks ago and have heard zip since...this is crazy...
Did they say which flavour you'll be getting?

I'm in Group 7 and going tomorrow for mine. Getting Pfizer.

You should definitely follow yours up if you already haven't, and find out the story.

Zipppy · 28-04-2021 05:32PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

I'm in Group 7 and going tomorrow for mine. Getting Pfizer.

You should definitely follow yours up if you already haven't, and find out the story.

but follow up with whom? No-one seems to know anything

dubdamo · 28-04-2021 05:32PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

I'm in Group 7 and going tomorrow for mine. Getting Pfizer.

You should definitely follow yours up if you already haven't, and find out the story.

Im cohort 7, and in my 50's. Got a phone call from my GP to say that delivery has been very erratic and i could be waiting a few weeks, or a month to get done.

Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

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