Random Fitness Questions

Patsy167 · 20-04-2021 03:28PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

There were pics of the Irish rugby team training a few years back and it showed Cian Healy deadlifting with the hex bar using the high handles.

I'd say that generated copycat crimes in gyms all around the country.

https://www.the42.ie/cian-healy-deadlift-240kg-2357947-Sep2015/

Cian Healy is deadlifting 220kg+ there — roughly twice his body weight — which is not too surprising considering he previously told The42 that he benches 190kg and squats 300kg.

Brian? · 20-04-2021 03:32PM

Patsy167 wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/cian-healy-deadlift-240kg-2357947-Sep2015/

Cian Healy is deadlifting 220kg+ there — roughly twice his body weight — which is not too surprising considering he previously told The42 that he benches 190kg and squats 300kg.

High handles off blocks! My eyes!!

Alf Veedersane · 20-04-2021 03:51PM

Brian? wrote: »

High handles off blocks! My eyes!!

John Kiely was the S&C coach and broadly explained why he was using it off blocks....spare some areas, work others a bit. It was a couple of days after a match, 5 days before a match with France so they're not going to be going all out.

Broadly explained modifications to exercises people might recognise that they use

Alf Veedersane · 20-04-2021 03:54PM

Mellor wrote: »

Sure if people have issues that can’t be fixed, permanent or temporary. It makes sense to compensate for them.
But they’re a tiny minority. Seem silly to judge Trap bar vrs straight bar on a minority rather than general population.

I wasn't judging them on the use by minority over general population though.

I just said that exercise selection shouldn't be based on movement issues unless the issues cannot be addressed, given that I likely am one of that tiny minority. I'm not sure why that's objectionable considering I also agreed that people should address their movement issues rather than avoid exercises that highlight them.

Alf Veedersane · 20-04-2021 04:22PM

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

People like Athlean-X have a lot to answer for making people scared of certain exercises or anything that deviates from 'perfect form'.

Probably why Jeff uses fake plates to lift 'heavy'.

Brian? · 20-04-2021 04:47PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

John Kiely was the S&C coach and broadly explained why he was using it off blocks....spare some areas, work others a bit. It was a couple of days after a match, 5 days before a match with France so they're not going to be going all out.

Broadly explained modifications to exercises people might recognise that they use

It was a joke. The article was praising how strong he was based on that lift. My guess is that's about 60-70% of his max DL, based on a 300kg squat

Alf Veedersane · 20-04-2021 05:06PM

Brian? wrote: »

It was a joke. The article was praising how strong he was based on that lift. My guess is that's about 60-70% of his max DL, based on a 300kg squat

I do get jokes.

In the context of the recent posts on trap bar, I just added the explanation given by John Kiely.

It's 220kg not including the bar...they did him a disservice. More like 240+

Black Sheep · 21-04-2021 09:42AM

I just watched the video segment where he does the trap bar deadlifts and it looks like he's doing trebles, and you can see him taking off straps as well. They talk about, as Alf says, that the goal with their lifting at that time was to spare some tissues, that might be injured, and work others.

So yeah - submaximal weight for him, using straps, high handles, off blocks - obviously not something an ordinary trainee without his injuries and professional commitments might need to do.

When I do block pulls (I have gone to these in lieu of rack pulls as I feel they're easier on my equipment) I work up to a heavy single and then what I do is I'll do 80% for 5+ as a back off.

When using the trap bar in general for me it's always the low handles, perhaps even with a deficit, because the beauty of using one in lieu of the straight bar is actually that you can really work your leg drive and get more quad involvement.

I'd be curious what reps and sets he was doing, and what the rest of the workout was. I'm going to guess he did 5x3 on those or something like that.

Must admit I never consider straps, even when maxing on a trap bar deadlift, as the bar doesn't roll in your hands like it would with a double overhand on a straight bar.

new2tri19 · 21-04-2021 10:17AM

One aspect of training I'm struggling with is the build up to a rep max attempt . Did a bit of googling and couldn't find anything concrete I guess it's individual but let's say you had to find your 5 rep max for bench which you guessed be about 100kg ( just using round numbers to make it easier ) .
How many warm up lifts before max rep attempt ?

Which of these would be better or neither . For 105 5 rep max attempt.
A - 50 X 10, 60 X 5 , 70 X 3 , 80 X 2, 90 X 1 .. Max rep attempt
B- 50 X 10 , 60 X 5 , 70 X 3 , 90 X 1 , 110 X 1.... Max rep attempt

I'm just thinking in any other sports I do before an FTP test or time trial or swim tt I'd always do an interval faster than planned pace so that the pace of the test feels easier does that apply to weightlifting? Obviously though this method wouldn't work on 1 rep max attempts . Would the heavier rep take too much out of you ?

Thanks

Deano7788 · 21-04-2021 10:27AM

new2tri19 wrote: »

One aspect of training I'm struggling with is the build up to a rep max attempt . Did a bit of googling and couldn't find anything concrete I guess it's individual but let's say you had to find your 5 rep max for bench which you guessed be about 100kg ( just using round numbers to make it easier ) .
How many warm up lifts before max rep attempt ?

Which of these would be better or neither . For 105 5 rep max attempt.
A - 50 X 10, 60 X 5 , 70 X 3 , 80 X 2, 90 X 1 .. Max rep attempt
B- 50 X 10 , 60 X 5 , 70 X 3 , 90 X 1 , 110 X 1.... Max rep attempt

I'm just thinking in any other sports I do before an FTP test or time trial or swim tt I'd always do an interval faster than planned pace so that the pace of the test feels easier does that apply to weightlifting? Obviously though this method wouldn't work on 1 rep max attempts . Would the heavier rep take too much out of you ?

Thanks

I definitely wouldn't go for the second approach, that would essentially be using an approach of top single and then working sets after, rather than a "warm up". Also I generally try to make the jumps smaller as I go along, so for instance I had a top single on deadlift yesterday, warm ups went 70/120/170/220/250 and then top single of 265. For bench the jumps would be smaller by necessity but it would be bar/70/100/120 for the first few and then I judge the next set based on how 120 moved and the RPE for the single.

Could you maybe try 50x10, 70x5, 85x3 and 95x1 or something similar? That way, you're conserving energy and time on warm ups, while also having a last warm up that is close enough to possibly judge what to go for the top set?

Alf Veedersane · 21-04-2021 10:34AM

new2tri19 wrote: »

One aspect of training I'm struggling with is the build up to a rep max attempt . Did a bit of googling and couldn't find anything concrete I guess it's individual but let's say you had to find your 5 rep max for bench which you guessed be about 100kg ( just using round numbers to make it easier ) .
How many warm up lifts before max rep attempt ?

Which of these would be better or neither . For 105 5 rep max attempt.
A - 50 X 10, 60 X 5 , 70 X 3 , 80 X 2, 90 X 1 .. Max rep attempt
B- 50 X 10 , 60 X 5 , 70 X 3 , 90 X 1 , 110 X 1.... Max rep attempt

I'm just thinking in any other sports I do before an FTP test or time trial or swim tt I'd always do an interval faster than planned pace so that the pace of the test feels easier does that apply to weightlifting? Obviously though this method wouldn't work on 1 rep max attempts . Would the heavier rep take too much out of you ?

Thanks

Don't overthink it. Just work up in sets of 5 and you'll have a better appreciation of where you're headed.

You're not competing so it's just about getting stronger.

At 80x2 and 90x1, you won't really have a feel for where that places you for a 5RM. I still find it hard to gauge how many reps in the tank for bench.

If you think 100x5 is on the cards, you'll have a better idea if it is or not with 90x5. It might tell you 95x5 is your 5RM today. But progress is when your 5RM is more than that the next time out. It's all relative. Just don't get bogged down in absolute numbers before you get into it. You need to feel your way up to the 5RM, imho.

And the progress is driven by the volume in the back-off sets rather than what the 5RM is on a given day.

Alf Veedersane · 21-04-2021 10:38AM

Deano7788 wrote: »

Could you maybe try 50x10, 70x5, 85x3 and 95x1 or something similar? That way, you're conserving energy and time on warm ups, while also having a last warm up that is close enough to possibly judge what to go for the top set?

At this stage, I don't think he needs to worry about conserving energy. Bench is hard to gauge, especially when you're relatively new to it. In time, perhaps, when you find it easier to gauge what a 5RM might be based on a single 5-10kg or so below that weight.

Deano7788 · 21-04-2021 10:44AM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

At this stage, I don't think he needs to worry about conserving energy. Bench is hard to gauge, especially when you're relatively new to it. In time, perhaps, when you find it easier to gauge what a 5RM might be based on a single 5-10kg or so below that weight.

Well I was more comparing with what he had suggested, if it was going to go with that approach and didn't want to change I think there are better and more efficient ways to go about it.

I do agree for now ascending sets would be best.

new2tri19, I've looked at your log recently and it looks like you have a max every session? I would definitely go with Alf's approach there and just hit a set of 5 in this instance, judge how it felt and then keep going up until you feel you've hit your "training max" for the day. Somedays it will be better than expected, others less, but it will help you to hit it accurately and also put less pressure on yourself to always try to outdo what was done last time.

new2tri19 · 21-04-2021 10:47AM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Don't overthink it. Just work up in sets of 5 and you'll have a better appreciation of where you're headed.

You're not competing so it's just about getting stronger.

At 80x2 and 90x1, you won't really have a feel for where that places you for a 5RM. I still find it hard to gauge how many reps in the tank for bench.

If you think 100x5 is on the cards, you'll have a better idea if it is or not with 90x5. It might tell you 95x5 is your 5RM today. But progress is when your 5RM is more than that the next time out. It's all relative. Just don't get bogged down in absolute numbers before you get into it. You need to feel your way up to the 5RM, imho.

And the progress is driven by the volume in the back-off sets rather than what the 5RM is on a given day.

I always thought working up in sets of 5 would take too much out of you , but I'll give that a go .
So lastly how many warm ups .
So something like
50 X 5
60 X 5
70 X 5
80 X 5
90 X 5
100 X 5 of fail do 95 x5 ?
Or would that be too much warm up? Thanks and sorry for all questions just like to get an idea if I'm doing build up optimally

Alf Veedersane · 21-04-2021 10:50AM

Deano7788 wrote: »

Well I was more comparing with what he had suggested, if it was going to go with that approach and didn't want to change I think there are better and more efficient ways to go about it.

Completely. And, to be fair, it's what most people do when they have a bit more training under their belt. I have to be reminded not to when we're working up especially in the early phases of a block with a comp down the line and to just work up to an XRM with sets of X.

new2tri19 · 21-04-2021 10:50AM

Deano7788 wrote: »

Well I was more comparing with what he had suggested, if it was going to go with that approach and didn't want to change I think there are better and more efficient ways to go about it.

I do agree for now ascending sets would be best.

new2tri19, I've looked at your log recently and it looks like you have a max every session? I would definitely go with Alf's approach there and just hit a set of 5 in this instance, judge how it felt and then keep going up until you feel you've hit your "training max" for the day. Somedays it will be better than expected, others less, but it will help you to hit it accurately and also put less pressure on yourself to always try to outdo what was done last time.

Yes every session has a max rep attempt I've just been winging it doing like 50% of max rep attempt X 10 then a bit heavier X 6 and a bit heavier again X 3 then a double and a single before attempting it.
Building up in sets of 5 or whatever would be alot handier and take the guess work out of it so I'll do that . Thanks

Deano7788 · 21-04-2021 10:51AM

new2tri19 wrote: »

I always thought working up in sets of 5 would take too much out of you , but I'll give that a go .
So lastly how many warm ups .
So something like
50 X 5
60 X 5
70 X 5
80 X 5
90 X 5
100 X 5 of fail do 95 x5 ?
Or would that be too much warm up? Thanks and sorry for all questions just like to get an idea if I'm doing build up optimally

You'd probably be able to drop one of the earlier sets, maybe 60x5, but probably won't make much difference.

I would go 90 - 95 if 90 feels good - 100 if 95 feels good, or stop if it feel's like that's close to the max for today.

I think it's important to think of it as just training and not testing every day. Whether you finish on 95 or 100 for the day, long term it won't make a difference, just take what's there that day and keep doing that session after session and then the results will come down the line.

new2tri19 · 21-04-2021 10:54AM

Thanks lads I think I copied that warm up routine from someone on Reddit who was listing a max rep attempt they did 50 x10 60x 5 ........ So then I just assumed without ever checking that that's the optimal way .

Alf Veedersane · 21-04-2021 10:58AM

new2tri19 wrote: »

I always thought working up in sets of 5 would take too much out of you , but I'll give that a go .
So lastly how many warm ups .
So something like
50 X 5
60 X 5
70 X 5
80 X 5
90 X 5
100 X 5 of fail do 95 x5 ?
Or would that be too much warm up? Thanks and sorry for all questions just like to get an idea if I'm doing build up optimally

Could do with one less set on the way up, perhaps.

But you are still approaching it with the top set fixed in your head. You've outlined the warm up with an attempt at 100x5.

Base your top set on how it feels. If you do 90x5, you need to be sure you have at least 3 but probably 4 more reps in the tank for 100x5 to be realistic.

If you could do maybe 2 more, then let your top set be 95x5. If it feels a touch too light, so be it. You'll have a better idea the next time and your back off sets may only be 2.5kg lighter anyway so you will put up more volume.

Deano7788 · 21-04-2021 11:00AM

new2tri19 wrote: »

Thanks lads I think I copied that warm up routine from someone on Reddit who was listing a max rep attempt they did 50 x10 60x 5 ........ So then I just assumed without ever checking that that's the optimal way .

I edited my post above but I definitely think reframing how you think and approach it would help. The above might work if actually testing a lift, or for experienced lifters, but for now just think of it as training and getting the work in. Don't really worry about what weight you hit that day in terms of having a target, take what's there and in the long term when it does come to test it will all come together.

new2tri19 · 21-04-2021 11:06AM

Deano7788 wrote: »

I edited my post above but I definitely think reframing how you think and approach it would help. The above might work if actually testing a lift, or for experienced lifters, but for now just think of it as training and getting the work in. Don't really worry about what weight you hit that day in terms of having a target, take what's there and in the long term when it does come to test it will all come together.

Ok I get yous both now , I need to stop setting a target and just lift what is set out for the day .
Funny no matter what sport you do the same flaws show themselves everytime , the kg on the weight has replaced the minutes mile on the watch and the lap times in the pool and the power on the bike .
Don't be a slave to numbers!!
Some great advice there lads thanks I've a great idea what to do from now on .

Alf Veedersane · 21-04-2021 11:13AM

new2tri19 wrote: »

Ok I get yous both now , I need to stop setting a target and just lift what is set out for the day .
Funny no matter what sport you do the same flaws show themselves everytime , the kg on the weight has replaced the minutes mile on the watch and the lap times in the pool and the power on the bike .
Don't be a slave to numbers!!
Some great advice there lads thanks I've a great idea what to do from now on .

Think of it like this. If you were early days in your running and decided you wanted to do 10k in 40 minutes.

5k done at the 20 minute mark but then come 8k you're feeling the pace and you're at 33 minutes on the clock.

You don't think to yourself you'll up the pace to hit the 10k in 40 minutes because you know you can't sustain it. So you maintain a pace that you can and you do it in 42 minutes.

There would have been zero point in trying to do it in 40 minutes given how it felt at the 8k mark. So you ended up with 42 minutes.

Now you have a marker...a time to beat the next time.

22-04-2021 08:19AM

Cill94 wrote: »

Try squatting to a box. You can drop the height over time as you gain more mobility and strength.

Thanks so much for this!. Some practice with the box got me used to letting myself go down with the weight. Technique still needs some work but I can get all the way down and mobility seems fine.

Cill94 · 22-04-2021 02:26PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thanks so much for this!. Some practice with the box got me used to letting myself go down with the weight. Technique still needs some work but I can get all the way down and mobility seems fine.

No problem, glad it helped.

Mellor · 23-04-2021 10:48AM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I wasn't judging them on the use by minority over general population though.

I just said that exercise selection shouldn't be based on movement issues unless the issues cannot be addressed, given that I likely am one of that tiny minority. I'm not sure why that's objectionable considering I also agreed that people should address their movement issues rather than avoid exercises that highlight them.

I wasn't commenting on your post, but the article selling DLs as bad.

Black Sheep wrote: »

When I do block pulls (I have gone to these in lieu of rack pulls as I feel they're easier on my equipment) I work up to a heavy single and then what I do is I'll do 80% for 5+ as a back off.

Must admit I never consider straps, even when maxing on a trap bar deadlift, as the bar doesn't roll in your hands like it would with a double overhand on a straight bar.

Rack pulls are brutal on bars. Blocks are definitely smarter.

As for grip. I'm a big advocate of grip strength. And, this may be an unpopular opinion, but if you need straps on a trap bar, their is something wrong.

Mellor · 23-04-2021 11:08AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks so much for this!. Some practice with the box got me used to letting myself go down with the weight. Technique still needs some work but I can get all the way down and mobility seems fine.

This is good to hear. Be great if more posters came back with news of how they got on, instead of disappearing.

new2tri19 wrote: »

One aspect of training I'm struggling with is the build up to a rep max attempt . Did a bit of googling and couldn't find anything concrete I guess it's individual but let's say you had to find your 5 rep max for bench which you guessed be about 100kg ( just using round numbers to make it easier ) .
How many warm up lifts before max rep attempt ?

Which of these would be better or neither . For 105 5 rep max attempt.
A - 50 X 10, 60 X 5 , 70 X 3 , 80 X 2, 90 X 1 .. Max rep attempt
B- 50 X 10 , 60 X 5 , 70 X 3 , 90 X 1 , 110 X 1.... Max rep attempt

I agree with Dean that the first way is better in order to conserve energy and really go for it with a 5RM. For a 5RM, I'd probably do less sets.

But I also agree with Alf that it's not what you need to do right now. Also depends on whether you attempting a 5RM or a 5x5 PR. And also just how you feel..

I'm just thinking in any other sports I do before an FTP test or time trial or swim tt I'd always do an interval faster than planned pace so that the pace of the test feels easier does that apply to weightlifting? Obviously though this method wouldn't work on 1 rep max attempts . Would the heavier rep take too much out of you ?

The difference with that is your interval is a higher pace (weight) but it's a reduced distance (ROM).

The parallel in lifting would be unracking an overloaded bar and holding it, rather than attempted a rep. The idea is when you drop yo target weight, it feel lighter and your setup is less affected.

new2tri19 · 23-04-2021 12:01PM

Mellor wrote: »

The difference with that is your interval is a higher pace (weight) but it's a reduced distance (ROM).

The parallel in lifting would be unracking an overloaded bar and holding it, rather than attempted a rep. The idea is when you drop yo target weight, it feel lighter and your setup is less affected.

That's interesting thanks , I was actually considering doing something like that my idea was to sit down and hold barbell overhead with a weight I can't lift and try slowly lower it , like a negative pull up .

Mellor · 23-04-2021 12:10PM

new2tri19 wrote: »

That's interesting thanks , I was actually considering doing something like that my idea was to sit down and hold barbell overhead with a weight I can't lift and try slowly lower it , like a negative pull up .

That's probably valid too but there's a few things to consider.

You must have safeties, and absolute confidance in them
At some point near the bottom, you may lose your ability to lower slowly
At a certain weight, a superloaded negative will injury you
You can probably unrack the above weight
And most critically, even if setup and weight was perfect, and form is perfect. Its going to be a pain in the ass unload and raising the bar everytime. Brings friends.

new2tri19 · 23-04-2021 12:22PM

Mellor wrote: »

That's probably valid too but there's a few things to consider.
You must have safeties, and absolute confidance in them

At some point near the bottom, you may lose your ability to lower slowly

At a certain weight, a superloaded negative will injury you

You can probably unrack the above weight

And most critically, even if setup and weight was perfect, and form is perfect. Its going to be a pain in the ass unload and raising the bar everytime. Brings friends.

Thanks they are all good points to think of , I'll start off light at 1 rep max and build slowly .
Yeah safetys is the big thing I've a few heavy duty ladders and adjustable sawhorses , I'll look at fashioning something that will catch the barbell , should I miss the safety hooks on rack.

24-04-2021 04:48PM

Black Sheep wrote: »

As far as doing tricep accessories, there are a couple of reasons you do them. You can't push compounds hard for every exercise in a workout, and if you did then you wouldn't recover. But compound lifts also aren't an efficient way to target particular muscle groups to bring them along for either aesthetic reasons or in order to correct weak points. Compounds and isolation work complement each other, the latter is not a poor cousin to the former.

Tricep work fits in great as accessory work at the end of a push day in particular. Hit tricep extensions (or dips, if you want more of a multi joint exercise) hard and you can still recover, even if you've gone to proximity to failure, and it should also help build the bench.

I mixed up my push day today and added the dips machine for more triceps.

3x7 bench press.
3x5 OHP.
4x12 incline dumbbells.
3x12 dip machine.

Weird day as I didn't have any proper plan but it felt good.

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