Random EV thoughts.....

slave1 · 19-04-2021 07:47AM

0lddog wrote: »

Fair few MS but generally not 20X or 21X reg

Tesla have paused production of MS since end of last year so won’t see a 21 reg, next ones will be 22X

forestgirl · 20-04-2021 10:53AM

What happens if an electric vehicle owner gets low on charge and goes to nearest charging station to find it out of use or broken and nearest charge point from them is 50klm and only 30klm left in battery ,genuine question.
Like this must happen to some people at some stage as you could be in a remote area with little charge points,is there any such thing as calling for back up.

These ev cars are getting somewhat popular now, I have so many questions like I suppose a lot of people do ,obviously I would know to have battery full before I go to remote areas but how about all the sight seeing I need to do

liamog · 20-04-2021 10:58AM

forestgirl wrote: »

What happens if an electric vehicle owner gets low on charge and goes to nearest charging station to find it out of use or broken and nearest charge point from them is 50klm and only 30klm left in battery ,genuine question.
Like this must happen to some people at some stage as you could be in a remote area with little charge points,is there any such thing as calling for back up.

There is usually some kind of recovery service that comes with a new car, the AA for instance have a mobile charging service, either that or you can be towed/carried to the nearest charging point.

the_amazing_raisin · 20-04-2021 11:17AM

forestgirl wrote: »

What happens if an electric vehicle owner gets low on charge and goes to nearest charging station to find it out of use or broken and nearest charge point from them is 50klm and only 30klm left in battery ,genuine question.
Like this must happen to some people at some stage as you could be in a remote area with little charge points,is there any such thing as calling for back up.

These ev cars are getting somewhat popular now, I have so many questions like I suppose a lot of people do ,obviously I would know to have battery full before I go to remote areas but how about all the sight seeing I need to do

Same thing that happens in an ICE car if you run out of fuel, you call a tow truck

I get the paranoia when you're coming over from an ICE car and I've felt the same when I got my Leaf. My best advice would be to plan ahead for road trips to see where you'll need to charge.

If you're going into an area that doesn't have many chargers, or you're unsure if they'll be available, then it might be prudent to charge when you have the opportunity rather than wait until you need to charge

While this sounds like hassle, in some ways EVs can be less of a hassle than an ICE car. For example if you're heading to a holiday home, you can plug the car into a 3 pin socket overnight (with the owners permission) and let it charge.

It isn't quick, but 12 hours charging should give about 100km of range for most EVs, enough for a decent days sightseeing. In theory you could go the whole holiday without taking any more time for a charging stop than you would with and ICE car.

ELM327 · 20-04-2021 11:28AM

forestgirl wrote: »

What happens if an electric vehicle owner gets low on charge and goes to nearest charging station to find it out of use or broken and nearest charge point from them is 50klm and only 30klm left in battery ,genuine question.
Like this must happen to some people at some stage as you could be in a remote area with little charge points,is there any such thing as calling for back up.

These ev cars are getting somewhat popular now, I have so many questions like I suppose a lot of people do ,obviously I would know to have battery full before I go to remote areas but how about all the sight seeing I need to do

There's very few places in Ireland that you would be 50km from a charger.

It's the same as an ICE car. You call a tow truck!
But it doesnt happen, as you leave your house with a full "tank" every day!

MJohnston · 20-04-2021 11:36AM

I would argue that the situation with an EV running out of battery is much better than a car running out of petrol. Because in most locations you can take care of it yourself. All you need is a regular old house wall socket and your granny charger cable (in most EVs these can be permanently stowed in the frunk) and some time.

ELM327 · 20-04-2021 11:39AM

I've done over 100k EV km and never ran out. I ran out of diesel once. Go figure.

markpb · 20-04-2021 11:40AM

forestgirl wrote: »

What happens if an electric vehicle owner gets low on charge and goes to nearest charging station to find it out of use or broken and nearest charge point from them is 50klm and only 30klm left in battery ,genuine question.
Like this must happen to some people at some stage as you could be in a remote area with little charge points,is there any such thing as calling for back up.

These ev cars are getting somewhat popular now, I have so many questions like I suppose a lot of people do ,obviously I would know to have battery full before I go to remote areas but how about all the sight seeing I need to do

You should have a look at the eCars map (https://esb.ie/ecars/DrivezMap.html) or the Plugshare map (https://www.plugshare.com/) with the filter for CCS and Type 2 charge points turned on. The 22kW chargers aren't great but in an emergency, they're better than nothing. There are only a few places in Ireland that are genuinely far from a charger of some kind. Remote, coastal towns are quite well covered, it's the roads between them and the major towns that you need to worry about.

The first long-ish drive I took after I bought my EV was an unmitigated disaster. I arrived late at a work meeting so I didn't have time to park at an SCP which was a few minutes walk away. Then the meeting ran late so I was in a rush leaving for home. I misread the map and drove in the cold, wind and rain away from the nearest fast charger. When I realised I wouldn't make it, I found a nearby SCP and sat there for two hours (luckily I have a 16.5kW AC charger) which gave me enough to get to Ionity Athlone. My bad luck continued because that didn't work at all. Luckily I had borrowed a Chademo adaptor and used that at a nearby Circle K charger (which had a broken CCS head so Chademo was my only option). It took six hours to get home when I should have taken two. The moral of the story: leave home on time (even if it means leaving your kids behind) and read the map properly!

MJohnston · 20-04-2021 11:56AM

I think it might be literally impossible at the moment to be 50km from a charger in Ireland? Furthest I could find is up in Connemara where you could be about 20-30km away.

Cyrus · 20-04-2021 12:01PM

forestgirl wrote: »

What happens if an electric vehicle owner gets low on charge and goes to nearest charging station to find it out of use or broken and nearest charge point from them is 50klm and only 30klm left in battery ,genuine question.
Like this must happen to some people at some stage as you could be in a remote area with little charge points,is there any such thing as calling for back up.

These ev cars are getting somewhat popular now, I have so many questions like I suppose a lot of people do ,obviously I would know to have battery full before I go to remote areas but how about all the sight seeing I need to do

because you have to think about it more, you think about it more, anyone who has planned out a long trip (as this is the only time itll be a factor) will have already made provisions for charging either en route or at the destination.

slave1 · 20-04-2021 12:10PM

MJohnston wrote: »

I think it might be literally impossible at the moment to be 50km from a charger in Ireland? Furthest I could find is up in Connemara where you could be about 20-30km away.

It's not really are you more than 50km away for me, it's am I more than 50km away from a hub where I am pretty much guaranteed a charge.
You cannot rely on a charger that could be occupied/broken/ICED or queued.

In Ireland at the moment we only have the Tesla and Ionity hubs to truly rely on.

MJohnston · 20-04-2021 12:13PM

slave1 wrote: »

It's not really are you more than 50km away for me, it's am I more than 50km away from a hub where I am pretty much guaranteed a charge.
You cannot rely on a charger that could be occupied/broken/ICED or queued.

In Ireland at the moment we only have the Tesla and Ionity hubs to truly rely on.

Eh, I'd disagree somewhat. I think the apps negate a lot of these concerns, apart from ICE-ing (which isn't as widespread as its made out to be), because you can usually tell when a charger is broken, and you can see when it's occupied, how long for, and give a guess as to when it might be available again.

And since pricing was introduced, it's rare that you have to wait more than 45 minutes for an occupied charger to become available.

As I've said before, the charging network "depth" (ie. number of chargers at each location) will obviously have to increase as the number of EV owners increases, but I think in Ireland we have the charging network "coverage" pretty much nailed down.

cannco253 · 20-04-2021 12:23PM

I would amend this to read

And since pricing was introduced, it's rare that you have to wait more than 45 minutes for an occupied "50kW" charger to become available.

Kramer · 20-04-2021 12:24PM

ELM327 wrote: »

There's very few places in Ireland that you would be 50km from a charger.

MJohnston wrote: »

I think it might be literally impossible at the moment to be 50km from a charger in Ireland?

I'm never far from a charger as I always take one with me :pac:.

An electrical outlet, AC charge point or DC charger, yes.
We've had 2 BEVs now & a PHEV. We're waaaaaay down on what our usual mileage would be, due to the virus, but have still covered close to 90,000km electric kilometres in 2 years.

It just takes a little forethought, but as newer BEVs ubiquitously have bigger batteries/more range & our charging infrastructure (slowly :rolleyes:) improves, "running out" shouldn't ever happen.

MJohnston · 20-04-2021 12:30PM

cannco253 wrote: »

I would amend this to read

And since pricing was introduced, it's rare that you have to wait more than 45 minutes for an occupied "50kW" charger to become available.

Dunno, I don't see much hogging with the 22kW chargers anymore myself either tbh, but it's not like my usage over the last year has been significant.

MJohnston · 20-04-2021 12:31PM

Kramer wrote: »

I'm never far from a charger as I always take one with me :pac:.

The biggest hurdle that EV adoption will need to overcome is terminology snobs :rolleyes:

Kramer · 20-04-2021 12:42PM

MJohnston wrote: »

The biggest hurdle that EV adoption will need to overcome is terminology snobs :rolleyes:

.

Is it OK for Toyota to advertise their cars as "self charging electric hybrids"? It's correct & sure it's only terminology too

.

Kramer · 20-04-2021 12:46PM

MJohnston wrote: »

The biggest hurdle that EV adoption will need to overcome is terminology snobs :rolleyes:

Oh, I've probably put more people in EVs over the last 2 years than many main dealers. I'm an early adopter & have educated many & promoted EVs at every opportunity, at charge points, in car parks & socially etc.

The biggest hurdle to EV adoption here is government.

MJohnston · 20-04-2021 12:54PM

I'm just saying, drop the terminology snobbery, it's really boring and basically nobody but you cares!

Why do you think the government are a hurdle to EV adoption? I despise FFG, but even I would find it hard to blame them for that. Even now, I think the real biggest hurdle is that there isn't a good second-hard market of practical EVs (and a lot of suspicion about the longevity of second-hand EVs)

liamog · 20-04-2021 01:11PM

Kramer wrote: »

The biggest hurdle to EV adoption here is government.

The biggest hurdle to adoption is the lack of choice in available models and the anaemic business case for rapid charging on an island the size of Ireland with it's population density.

Kramer · 20-04-2021 01:27PM

MJohnston wrote: »

I'm just saying, drop the terminology snobbery, it's really boring and basically nobody but you cares!

That's me, in a nutshell

.

A Hoover is a vacuum cleaner, a Biro is a pen, EVs have OBCs (on board chargers) & no, a Toyota isn't a "self charging electric" car :pac:.

(I may or may not take myself too seriously - humor seems very subjective around here - maybe people are tetchy with all these lockdowns etc :pac:.)

MJohnston wrote: »

Why do you think the government are a hurdle to EV adoption?

Where to start!
1. Charging infrastructure.
The government are 100% responsible for the shambles that is, our charging network. They could have mandated DC chargers at all new filling stations/motorway services years ago. They could have even part funded them.
They could have incentivised private providers to install infrastructure, subvented them & introduced caps on pricing until they became self-sustaining.

We should be some way along the Norwegian road by now. We are on a small island. 12/15 proper hubs should have been prioritised & installed here years ago, with multiple units per hub. Like Ionity, like Tesla.........it's not too hard.

That's a start anyway.

[/end rant]

Kramer · 20-04-2021 01:32PM

liamog wrote: »

The biggest hurdle to adoption is the lack of choice in available models and the anaemic business case for rapid charging on an island the size of Ireland with it's population density.

Which is it?
1. lack of choice (rapidly being rectified)
2. the anaemic business case for rapid charging on an island the size of Ireland with it's population density.

If it's 2, that's 100% government's fault, or more specifically, can be 100% rectified by government.

Here's another one - civil service mileage rates, ubiquitously mirrored by the private sector.
There's nothing to incentivise EVs. In fact, it's the exact opposite.
The bigger the engine, the more one can claim :eek:.

1,200cc is the lowest class IIRC, so all EVs are categorised at just that, 1,200cc ICE cars, for mileage/expense purposes.

timsey tiger · 20-04-2021 01:36PM

Kramer wrote: »

That's me, in a nutshell .

A Hoover is a vacuum cleaner, a Biro is a pen, EVs have OBCs (on board chargers) & no, a Toyota isn't a "self charging electric" car :pac:.

(I may or may not take myself too seriously - humor seems very subjective around here - maybe people are tetchy with all these lockdowns etc :pac:.)

[/end rant]

Pedantary is pointless.

If all evs have onboard "chargers" then all evs are selfcharging.
A Toyota must have an onboard charger to charge its battery through regen, so technically it must be self charging.

ELM327 · 20-04-2021 01:36PM

Kramer wrote: »

.

Is it OK for Toyota to advertise their cars as "self charging electric hybrids"? It's correct & sure it's only terminology too .

You have to start your electric journey with them after all.

Kramer · 20-04-2021 01:48PM

timsey tiger wrote: »

Pedantary is pointless.

Hey, don't knock it 'till you've tried it!
One man's pedantry is another man's hobby

.

Tesla - Full Self Driving. FSD.
Terminology :eek:.

IIRC a German court rebuked them for that terminology recently, calling it out for the BS it is. Autopilot - that's more of it!

Marketing, masquerading as terminology.

Petrols & diesels are sooooo much simpler - TDi, SDi, TDCCi, MPFI, HEV, M-HEV, turbo, normally aspirated, inline 4, straight 6, V6, V8, V10, V12........gawd it's a pedant's worst nightmare................where are my Xanax

.

liamog · 20-04-2021 01:53PM

Kramer wrote: »

Which is it?
1. lack of choice (rapidly being rectified)
2. the anaemic business case for rapid charging on an island the size of Ireland with it's population density.

If it's 2, that's 100% government's fault, or more specifically, can be 100% rectified by government.

Last I checked it wasn't the governments fault that we're an island or have quite a low population density. Ok, maybe the government could encourage mass immigration in which case then the business case for rapid charging infrastructure would start to make sense. But until we replace the missing 35 million we're always going to struggle delivering adequate infrastructure.

Kramer · 20-04-2021 02:23PM

Kramer wrote: »

Which is it?
1. lack of choice (rapidly being rectified)
2. the anaemic business case for rapid charging on an island the size of Ireland with it's population density.

If it's 2, that's 100% government's fault, or more specifically, can be 100% rectified by government.

liamog wrote: »

Last I checked it wasn't the governments fault that we're an island or have quite a low population density. Ok, maybe the government could encourage mass immigration in which case then the business case for rapid charging infrastructure would start to make sense. But until we replace the missing 35 million we're always going to struggle delivering adequate infrastructure.

You're conflating the profitability, or lack thereof, of 100% private investment in a privately provided & ran charging network, with what I posit, could, or possibly should be, publicly provided & publically funded, at least until it becomes self-financing/profitable. It should at the very least be subvented for now IMO.

Lots of things are not profitable here & never will be. Public housing, healthcare, education etc. - all are funded by tax with an added private layer on top, for the more affluent. As a small island country, we need lots of stuff that'll never make a profit. The state has a responsibility here. We pay very high taxes.

EV charging infrastructure is critical IMO & needs to be driven by the state. Otherwise, we'll have private companies with a monopoly on the profitable sites & be able to set pricing accordingly. The less travelled areas - particularly the west, will be out of luck.
As it is, Ionity & Tesla's sole reason for providing their chargers is to facilitate their own brands' car sales.
We've already seen how Ionity & VW aren't even incentivising Irish owners to use their network - again, the opposite of €urope.
There likely is competition in €urope, here not so much.

It'll be just like public transport is now, everything centered around Dublin, to facilitate travel to & from Dublin etc.

We'll be waiting a loooong time for private investment to come here & provide DC charging infrastructure, beyond what we have now. We seem to be determined to isolate ourselves from the rest of the EU & wider world. I'm not optimistic & do hope eCars pull the finger out soon.

liamog · 20-04-2021 02:40PM

Kramer wrote: »

You're conflating the profitability, or lack thereof, of 100% private investment in a privately provided & ran charging network, with what I posit, could, or possibly should be, publicly provided & publically funded, at least until it becomes self-financing/profitable. It should at the very least be subvented for now IMO.

That's why we have the current eCars network, which is being expanded in accordance with a plan published in 2019 and due to run for a period of 3 years.
Whether you agree with the ambition behind the plan or not, they have at least delivered on a number of it's components. The geographic coverage of DC chargers is massively better than it was in 2018.

the_amazing_raisin · 20-04-2021 02:56PM

liamog wrote: »

Last I checked it wasn't the governments fault that we're an island or have quite a low population density. Ok, maybe the government could encourage mass immigration in which case then the business case for rapid charging infrastructure would start to make sense. But until we replace the missing 35 million we're always going to struggle delivering adequate infrastructure.

You're correct, but unfortunately we're in a chicken and egg scenario where no-one will build more infrastructure until we have more EVs, but many people won't buy EVs until the infrastructure improves

This is the exact situation where government needs to intervene to stimulate uptake. Currently the government makes a lot of noise around purchase incentives, but there is very little regarding public charging incentives

The current strategy seems to be that the government provides 50% of the capital costs to anyone installing chargers, which immediately cuts out almost every private enterprise in Ireland except the ESB. The only other players who will come up with that cash up front are foreign providers and except for Ionity, none of them seem interested because it isn't worth the effort

The situation isn't helped by the fact that ESB's pricing will effectively force any competitors out of the market

IMO the solution is for the government to take a more active hand in the situation. Contracts should be tendered out to charging providers for installing fast chargers along motorways and N roads. Government will likely need to pay most or all of the capital costs, however the charging companies should agree to be regulated in return.

There should be multiple chargers per site, clearly signposted and cash/card facilites available. Things like usage, downtime and customer complaints should be tracked and reported to the CRU (or whoever is the regulator)

For towns and housing estates, the government should update planning laws to install appropriate chargers and hold county councils responsible for installing those chargers. Charging infrastructure should be linked to each councils budget with councils that lag behind having their funding deducted

Again, the government would probably have to provide 100% of capital costs, but I think would be a more effective use of public funds than to simply give some cash to the ESB on the understanding that they won't spend it

the_amazing_raisin · 20-04-2021 02:58PM

liamog wrote: »

That's why we have the current eCars network, which is being expanded in accordance with a plan published in 2019 and due to run for a period of 3 years.
Whether you agree with the ambition behind the plan or not, they have at least delivered on a number of it's components. The geographic coverage of DC chargers is massively better than it was in 2018.

But it still lags massively behind other EU nations even when corrected to population size

Random EV thoughts.....

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