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Cyclists, insurance and road tax

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    #302
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    @Andrew, what would you do if you had a magic wand, what would you keep, what would you change to make our roads safer for everybody


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    #303
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    FileNotFound wrote: »
    Wow I've seen people get worked up over nothing, but all this cause some cyclists breaks the red when the walking lights are on.

    Wait till you see the temple veins throb when a cyclist dismounts and walks the bike across the road :D:D


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    #304
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,079 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    fergiesfolly wrote: »
    It's not a tax on ownership though.
    I can own a motorcar and not tax it.
    It's essentially a road tax.
    A tax paid to use the road.

    Wow.

    Even when your folly is pointed out to you Fergie, you still want to double down on it.


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    #305
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,676 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Sono Topolino wrote: »
    You know what would fix the bike theft problem?

    Registration plates for bicycles and mandatory insurance, which would replace stolen bikes and also lobby the government for better enforcement against thieves

    Have those measures fixed the car theft problem?


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    #306
    Sono Topolino
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭Sono Topolino


    oisinog wrote: »
    Sono tell me how would you expect me to fit a light a saddle bad and reg plate on the back of my bike.

    Where would I display it, would you be happy to pay more "road tax" to fund the extra staff it would take to manage this process.

    At this point in time my car reg does not get me a caught if I do any of the above so why do you think a reg plate on my bike would.

    1. You already need number plates on ebikes in certain countries.

    2. ANPR technology is affixed to most Garda vehicles so if they do see you breaking lights, they will send you a fixed charge notice in the post even if they don't stop you at the time.


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    #307
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,676 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    OK Andrew, you convinced me to sell my car and buy a better bycicle, who can I phone now to get insurance from

    Are you trying to distract attention from your failure to answer any of the questions put to you?


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    #308
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,172 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Maybe everyone on a bike should wear a helmet. The inability to put together a coherent argument without an understanding of basic spelling and grammar is absurdly common in this thread and it should serve as a warning to anyone as to how you may turn out if you're unfortunate to have a head injury.


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    #309
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    Andrew I have answered everything, can you answer my question, I am very interested to find out your answer, I really am buy a bicycle any suggestions on make to buy,


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    #310
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 10,754 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Whatever about road tax, I can see a case for insurance being required for cycling on public roads. Cyclists can cause injury to a range of other road users. It's really not acceptable to cause injury or damage and be able to walk off scot free. But this is probably a wider issue and maybe every individual over a certain age (12?) should have personal insurance and if they cause damage, choose to pay themselves or have their insurance pay.


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    #311
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,676 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    @Andrew, nó one is saying cycling is bad for you, don't try spin it that people are saying that, cycling alone will not stop obesity, just like walking or going to the gym will, personal responsibility about the amount of and type of food you put into body will, all types of exercise is a beneficial for you health but that alone will not stop obesity,
    Cycling is hugely positive for public health. We should be doing everything in our power to encourage cycling, instead of dreaming up pointless barriers that have no rationale.


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    #312
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    Andrew, did I not say that?? Are you not going to answer my question that I have now put to you twice, I really am interested in you views,


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    #313
    oisinog
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭oisinog


    Sono Topolino wrote: »
    1. You already need number plates on ebikes in certain countries.

    2. ANPR technology is affixed to most Garda vehicles so if they do see you breaking lights, they will send you a fixed charge notice in the post even if they don't stop you at the time.

    You avoided answering my question. Where on my limited frame do I put a visable number plate?

    Which countries do you have to have a reg plate on an e-bike? I'm not aware of anywhere.


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    #314
    Sono Topolino
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭Sono Topolino


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Have those measures fixed the car theft problem?

    Car insurance has lead to manufacturers building safer cars, because the insurance industry lobbied for higher manufacturing standards.

    It also lobbied for road safety laws, anti-theft security features on cars, and yes greater polife enforcement. Car theft is now exceedingly rate.

    But brother's bike lasted 5 minutes chained to a railing on the Quays in Dublin.


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    #315
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Sono Topolino wrote: »
    1. You already need number plates on ebikes in certain countries.

    2. ANPR technology is affixed to most Garda vehicles so if they do see you breaking lights, they will send you a fixed charge notice in the post even if they don't stop you at the time.

    1. What countries require number plates on e-bikes?

    2. Only if the garda car is behind the bike, and the bike isn't obstructed, which it most likely will be.


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    #316
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Sono Topolino wrote: »
    My opinions on this are not welcome on the cycling forum, so here we go.

    Why is it such a taboo to request cyclists to get insurance and pay taxes for the roads that they use, just like car drivers do?

    "There is no such thing as road tax" cyclists bleat - except there are plenty of taxes that other road users have to pay, and cyclists pay none of them. There are plenty of tax breaks which cyclists can avail of, and second hand bikes which are dickied up to be as good as new are even VAT free.

    I agree that cycling is worth encouraging in big cities like Dublin, where it is a superior form of transport, but the cycle lanes have to be paid for from somewhere. And in rural areas, the only cyclists I see are doing it as a form of exercise on a road built for cars and tractors, slowing all the traffic down and endangering all road users. If cyclists want to cycle on main roads in rural Ireland, then they should pay for greenways for this purpose.

    Until then, they're a nuisance and a menace. So cyclists really have no arguments against mandatory insurance either. Before giving them insurance, I assume those companies will want evidence that cyclists know the rules of the road - something which currently they are not required to be remotely aware of.

    It's a pity I can't actually address this point to cyclists in the cycling forum.

    why should i pay insurance and tax twice? in fact the whole car insurance industry and road tax needs rethinking. the use of the road should be taxed and the person insured - bike, car or walking


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    #317
    Sono Topolino
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭Sono Topolino


    oisinog wrote: »
    You avoided answering my question. Where on my limited frame do I put a visable number plate?

    Which countries do you have to have a reg plate on an e-bike? I'm not aware of anywhere.

    1. Not my problem - if it won't fit, don't use it on the road.

    2. Switzerland has reg plates for eBikes.


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    #318
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,676 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Furze99 wrote: »
    Whatever about road tax, I can see a case for insurance being required for cycling on public roads. Cyclists can cause injury to a range of other road users. It's really not acceptable to cause injury or damage and be able to walk off scot free. But this is probably a wider issue and maybe every individual over a certain age (12?) should have personal insurance and if they cause damage, choose to pay themselves or have their insurance pay.

    So is there a case for insurance for pedestrians, given that they can cause injury to a range of other road users?


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    #319
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Sono Topolino wrote: »
    Car insurance has lead to manufacturers building safer cars, because the insurance industry lobbied for higher manufacturing standards.

    It also lobbied for road safety laws, anti-theft security features on cars, and yes greater polife enforcement. Car theft is now exceedingly rate.

    But brother's bike lasted 5 minutes chained to a railing on the Quays in Dublin.

    Cars have multiple security measures, mechanical, electrical, and software to prevent theft. Where does all this go on a bicycle?

    Maybe your brother uses a crappy lock?


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    #320
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Sono Topolino wrote: »
    1. Not my problem - if it won't fit, don't use it on the road.

    2. Switzerland has reg plates for eBikes.

    1. LOL.
    2. Only on fast ebikes, which you can't get in Europe. We're limited to 25kph and 250W


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    #321
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,079 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    People have no idea how insurance companies work if they think that they would be willing to offer insurance to cyclists against things like theft, when there are 1000's of bicycles stolen in Dublin alone.

    No insurance company is going to enter into that risk area.


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    #322
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,676 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Sono Topolino wrote: »
    1. Not my problem - if it won't fit, don't use it on the road.

    2. Switzerland has reg plates for eBikes.

    Your obsession with solving non existing problems is not my problem. If you're unable to share the road with cyclists, don't use the road.


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    #323
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Sono Topolino wrote: »
    1. Not my problem - if it won't fit, don't use it on the road.

    2. Switzerland has reg plates for eBikes.

    You mean high powered eBikes....basically electric motorbikes....nice try to muddy the waters.


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    #324
    Sono Topolino
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭Sono Topolino


    Padre_Pio wrote: »
    Cars have multiple security measures, mechanical, electrical, and software to prevent theft. Where does all this go on a bicycle?

    Maybe your brother uses a crappy lock?

    Back a hundred years or so ago, cars were incredibly easy to steal and a mixture of insurance companies lobbying and investing lead to the motor industry taking security incredibly seriously.

    And IDK maybe if cyclists need to have comprehensive insurance on their bikes, this will lead to bikes which are harder to steal. However, I was more going for the fact that insurance companies would lobby the government to break up the gangs that keep stealing bikes.


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    #325
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,676 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Tony EH wrote: »
    People have no idea how insurance companies work if they think that they would be willing to offer insurance to cyclists against things like theft, when there are 1000's of bicycles stolen in Dublin alone.

    No insurance company is going to enter into that risk area.

    There are some options, though the prices aren't reasonable.
    https://www.bikeinsurance.ie/


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    #326
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    Still waiting Andrew


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    #327
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Tony EH wrote: »
    People have no idea how insurance companies work if they think that they would be willing to offer insurance to cyclists against things like theft, when there are 1000's of bicycles stolen in Dublin alone.

    No insurance company is going to enter into that risk area.

    Tax would be better and fairer. It could be ring fenced to pay for more cycling related infrastructure and upkeep/maintenance.

    So yes let's tax cyclists but use the money to improve cycling infrastructure.


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    #328
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,425 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Sono Topolino wrote: »
    1. Not my problem - if it won't fit, don't use it on the road.

    2. Switzerland has reg plates for eBikes.

    Switzerland require them further e bikes that go over 25kph. In Ireland we don’t allow ebikes that go over 25kph


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    #329
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    I actually thought the thread was quieting down and them realised it was lunch break time. This kind of nonsense can only be properly discussed during working hours.


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    #330
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,676 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Sono Topolino wrote: »
    Back a hundred years or so ago, cars were incredibly easy to steal and a mixture of insurance companies lobbying and investing lead to the motor industry taking security incredibly seriously.

    And IDK maybe if cyclists need to have comprehensive insurance on their bikes, this will lead to bikes which are harder to steal. However, I was more going for the fact that insurance companies would lobby the government to break up the gangs that keep stealing bikes.

    So now they just break into your house and steal the keys, then take your car.

    How's that insurance company lobbying to break up the car theft gangs going?


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    #331
    Sono Topolino
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭Sono Topolino


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    You mean high powered eBikes....basically electric motorbikes....nice try to muddy the waters.

    The point is that number plates fit on a bicycle frame. The poster was arguing that bikes have no space for number plates on their frames and this is clearly nonsense.


This discussion has been closed.
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