Cyclists, insurance and road tax

Furze99

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So is there a case for insurance for pedestrians, given that they can cause injury to a range of other road users?

Yes, there is a case that every citizen over a certain age of responsibility should have their own personal insurance. It's a broader issue than just uninsured cyclists but would cover that issue as well.

Padre_Pio

Sono Topolino wrote: »

Back a hundred years or so ago, cars were incredibly easy to steal and a mixture of insurance companies lobbying and investing lead to the motor industry taking security incredibly seriously.

And IDK maybe if cyclists need to have comprehensive insurance on their bikes, this will lead to bikes which are harder to steal. However, I was more going for the fact that insurance companies would lobby the government to break up the gangs that keep stealing bikes.

Insurance companies aren't lobbying the government to break up the gangs of catalytic converter thieves.
You can buy decent locks for your bike that make them difficult to steal.

Very few people do it though. Usually a chain and an auld padlock.

AndrewJRenko

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

So yes let's tax cyclists but use the money to improve cycling infrastructure.

Same approach for dog walkers, park runners, beach swimmers and parents - let's tax them more so we can manage parks, beaches and schools?

Tony EH

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There are some options, though the prices aren't reasonable.
https://www.bikeinsurance.ie/

Why would they be reasonable though? The risk is so crazy.

I, alone, have had about 5 or so bikes stolen over the last 20 years or so. I'd imagine I wouldn't be alone.

Doesn't say anything about theft there BTW.

AndrewJRenko

Furze99 wrote: »

Yes, there is a case that every citizen over a certain age of responsibility should have their own personal insurance. It's a broader issue than just uninsured cyclists but would cover that issue as well.

Could you show the cost benefit analysis behind your case please?

Fighting Tao

Sono Topolino wrote: »

The point is that number plates fit on a bicycle frame. The poster was arguing that bikes have no space for number plates on their frames and this is clearly nonsense.

Do you know what those bikes look like compared to a push bike? They have a load of extras such as fairings, some have windshields etc. Nonsense indeed.

Joe4321

It's amazing how some people on here have a high post rate when all they do is comment on other people's post, but when asked their views they never give it, empty vesils comes to mind, is that right Andrew.

AndrewJRenko

Sono Topolino wrote: »

The point is that number plates fit on a bicycle frame. The poster was arguing that bikes have no space for number plates on their frames and this is clearly nonsense.

Your failure to recognise the actual source of danger on the roads is not my problem. Don't use the road if you can't manage it.

ExMachina1000

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Same approach for dog walkers, park runners, beach swimmers and parents - let's tax them more so we can manage parks, beaches and schools?

No just the cyclists who are using the roads. The edges of the roads in the cities have been handed over to them in the form of cycling lanes. This is their area and it will require maintenance and expansion.

So essentially if you use the road be it the driving lane or cycling lane you must pay towards its upkeep and expansion. Most cyclists already own cars and pay towards the driving section. They must also contribute to the maintenance of the cycling area too.

Tony EH

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Tax would be better and fairer. It could be ring fenced to pay for more cycling related infrastructure and upkeep/maintenance.

So yes let's tax cyclists but use the money to improve cycling infrastructure.

That would only make cyclists go back to the car, and thus cause MORE congestion and danger on the roads.

All to appease a few cunts who who want to whinge about some minor inconveniences that they may suffer due to having to share the road with bicycles.

The fact of the matter is cycling is an attractive option BECAUSE it is a cheap mode of transport and the more people that take it up, the safer the roads are over all for everybody.

Sono Topolino

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So now they just break into your house and steal the keys, then take your car.

How's that insurance company lobbying to break up the car theft gangs going?

5% of Dublin car owners had their car broken into in 2019. Most of these were a theft of items from a car, not a theft of a car.

15% of Dublin bike owners had their bikes stolen in 2019.

Needless to say that stealing and reselling a bike is incredibly easy. Stealing and reselling a car is quite a lot harder.

Fighting Tao

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

No just the cyclists who are using the roads. The edges of the roads in the cities have been handed over to them in the form of cycling lanes. This is their area and it will require maintenance and expansion.

You mean those edges of the roads that are often occupied by dog walkers, park runners...badly designed, and not maintained?

Seth Brundle

Joe4321 wrote: »

Set have you come back as Andrew

Joe4321 wrote: »

Seth or is it Andrew,

Honestly, are you ill?
The majority of your posts in the last couple of hours are simply craving attention and adding little to the discussion. :rolleyes:

ExMachina1000

Fighting Tao wrote: »

You mean those edges of the roads that are often occupied by dog walkers, park runners...?

The footpath? No beside the footpath. The road

NickNickleby

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Tax would be better and fairer. It could be ring fenced to pay for more cycling related infrastructure and upkeep/maintenance.

So yes let's tax cyclists but use the money to improve cycling infrastructure.

precisely. originally motor tax was applied as a way of getting car owners to fund road building/maintenance (hence the original name "Road Fund Licence").

The so called motor tax is only required if using the car on a public road, so "motor tax" is a misnomer. I suspect the name was changed after someone figured how much of the road tax was being put into the roads.

I'm ambivalent as to the imposition of a bicycle tax, applied in the same way as motor tax.

BanditLuke

Cyclists are a law unto themselves and most of them think the rules of the road doesn't apply to them. I used to tell them to be careful breaking red lights but constantly got abused and spat on up by Stillorgan on one occasion so iv'e just given in.

Fighting Tao

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The footpath? No beside the footpath. The road

Driving this morning there was a stretch of about 300m of cycle track (not a great supply of them where I am at the moment). Every single pedestrian bar one was in the cycle track, and not on the footpath. The same track ends up....well nowhere, it just ends and the footpath continues. You'd wonder why some stretches of cycle tracks aren't used by cyclists :rolleyes:

AndrewJRenko

Sono Topolino wrote: »

Car insurance has lead to manufacturers building safer cars, because the insurance industry lobbied for higher manufacturing standards.

It also lobbied for road safety laws, anti-theft security features on cars, and yes greater polife enforcement. Car theft is now exceedingly rate.

But brother's bike lasted 5 minutes chained to a railing on the Quays in Dublin.

So that's a no then, the measures you suggest will solve bike theft haven't worked to solve car theft.

If you're actually interested in reducing bike theft, get employers and retailers to provide safe bike parking - proper stands, well supervised, cctv - all the kind of stuff they routinely provide for cars.

Sono Topolino

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Do you know what those bikes look like compared to a push bike? They have a load of extras such as fairings, some have windshields etc. Nonsense indeed.

The Swiss used to have small registration plates on bikes as late as 2011. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velovignette#/media/Datei:Velovignette-2007-foto.jpg

From 1893 until 1989 they had normal sized number plates https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Fahrradkennzeichen_Schweiz_Velovignette.jpg

It's clearly possible to affix registration plates to bikes and you're being deliberately disingenuous.

Fighting Tao

BanditLuke wrote: »

Cyclists are a law unto themselves and most of them think the rules of the road doesn't apply to them. I used to tell them to be careful breaking red lights but constantly got abused and spat on up by Stillorgan on one occasion so iv'e just given in.

Of course you did constantly get spat on. I'm sure you have the pulse numbers from recording the assaults.

Joe4321

@Seth, welcome back, asking someone for their views is should be a straight forward question, if someone has a view on what everyone else is posting should they not tell the forum what their views are when asked

dinneenp

BanditLuke wrote: »

Cyclists are a law unto themselves and most of them think the rules of the road doesn't apply to them. I used to tell them to be careful breaking red lights but constantly got abused and spat on up by Stillorgan on one occasion so iv'e just given in.

Yes they are but then again so are motorists.
Cyclists break red lights. Motorists exceed speed limits & operate mobile phones while driving.
And pedestrians; they jaywalk. Nobody is perfect.

Sono Topolino

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So that's a no then, the measures you suggest will solve bike theft haven't worked to solve car theft.

If you're actually interested in reducing bike theft, get employers and retailers to provide safe bike parking - proper stands, well supervised, cctv - all the kind of stuff they routinely provide for cars.

You will only accept that insurance reduced car theft if there are no cars being stolen, even though car theft is now exceedingly rare.

There is no point in discussing anything to you since you cannot accept the simple concepts like counterfactuals.

Fighting Tao

Sono Topolino wrote: »

The Swiss used to have small registration plates on bikes as late as 2011. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velovignette#/media/Datei:Velovignette-2007-foto.jpg

From 1893 until 1989 they had normal sized number plates https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Fahrradkennzeichen_Schweiz_Velovignette.jpg

It's clearly possible to affix registration plates to bikes and you're being deliberately disingenuous.

I wonder why they got rid of them? If a cyclist broke a red light do you really think you'd be able to read that? Most people struggle to catch car registration plates and they are much bigger The Swiss took the logical approach and figured out, that neither type are practical and they don't achieve anything. Why would you think their failure would be successful in Ireland?

ExMachina1000

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Driving this morning there was a stretch of about 300m of cycle track (not a great supply of them where I am at the moment). Every single pedestrian bar one was in the cycle track, and not on the footpath. The same track ends up....well nowhere, it just ends and the footpath continues. You'd wonder why some stretches of cycle tracks aren't used by cyclists :rolleyes:

Its hardly the fault of the motorist if the pedestrians are walk in your cycle lanes. Also it's not really surprising if the condition of the lane or track is poor when nobody is willing to pay towards improving it

Seems like some folk want to have the whole road, the footpath and segregated lanes yet pay nothing towards any of it, complain about the motorists and complain about the pedestrians

We all have to work together.

AndrewJRenko

BanditLuke wrote: »

Cyclists are a law unto themselves and most of them think the rules of the road doesn't apply to them. I used to tell them to be careful breaking red lights but constantly got abused and spat on up by Stillorgan on one occasion so iv'e just given in.

You've noticed how 98% of motorists break urban speed limits, right? Have you tried telling drivers to be careful speeding?

ExMachina1000

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You've noticed how 98% of motorists break urban speed limits, right? Have you tried telling drivers to be careful speeding?

That's the 7th time youve used that *fact


* may be made up

statto25

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Its hardly the fault of the motorist if the pedestrians are walk in your cycle lanes. Also it's not really surprising if the condition of the lane or track is poor when nobody is willing to pay towards improving it

Seems like some folk want to have the whole road, the footpath and segregated lanes yet pay nothing towards any of it, complain about the motorists and complain about the pedestrians.

Cyclists pay the same amount as motorists directly towards the upkeep of the road.....zero

Padre_Pio

On the topic of bike theft: I am unaware of a bicycle that has inbuilt anti theft hardware.

So, bike theft is not a failure of the bike. It is more likely a failure of an owner to not buy proper locks or chains.

AndrewJRenko

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Its hardly the fault of the motorist if the pedestrians are walk in your cycle lanes. Also it's not really surprising if the condition of the lane or track is poor when nobody is willing to pay towards improving it

Seems like some folk want to have the whole road, the footpath and segregated lanes yet pay nothing towards any of it, complain about the motorists and complain about the pedestrians.

Do cyclists have some exemption from paying tax? That's great news, where do I get a refund on all the tax I paid last year?