Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

FrancieBrady · 19-04-2021 08:18AM

Marine Layer wrote: »

What year do we not?
No prime time investigates during the Spanish inquisition either
Probably Spanish politicians fault

Let's say we waive prosecution Marine, would you even accept that ultimately the welfare of citizens is vested in those elected to look after the welfare of it's citizens?
Or is that just (even) a modern development?
They are happy enough to blame the people for the Covid numbers around here, is there any responsibility accruing to the government and it's institutions at all?

xl500 · 19-04-2021 08:34AM

Marine Layer wrote: »

On a contract for death and torture? Have you evidence of this knowingly done?

Dont be ridiculous of course individual Gardai didnt but the State has a responsibility to care for its citizens and the Politicians are the state legislators the book stops with them They Allowed it and Allowed the Catholic Church to almost run the Country and anyone who grew up in Ireland in the 50-60s knows exactly what a repressive society it was it was a sick society and what went on was terrible and a huge collective stain on the body politic

19-04-2021 08:35AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Let's say we waive prosecution Marine, would you even accept that ultimately the welfare of citizens is vested in those elected to look after the welfare of it's citizens?
Or is that just (even) a modern development?
They are happy enough to blame the people for the Covid numbers around here, is there any responsibility accruing to the government and it's institutions at all?

I've no problem with the states retrospective responsibility
But this notion you're propagating that they were doing it professly for the outcomes we now know about rather than societies requirements at the time is just nonsense

FrancieBrady · 19-04-2021 08:39AM

Marine Layer wrote: »

I've no problem with the states retrospective responsibility
But this notion you're propagating that they were doing it professly for the outcomes we now know about rather than societies requirements at the time is just nonsense

Ah the misrepresentation we are all so familiar with. At no point did I say that they were doing it for the outcomes we know about now.

You are outright lying now.

Brendan Bendar · 19-04-2021 08:44AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Everybody' was not responsible Brendi - that was the responsibility of those we elected to be responsible.
Turning around and 'blaming de people' just because you don't want to take responsibility is not good enough.
The political class, because of curse there was a benefit to them, allowed the church the unscrutinised position they had. The buck stops with them.
The same kind of excusing is going on for what Leo confessed to - 'shure everyone does it, it's not Leo's fault', sorry lad, the buck stops with Leo on this one.

When I say ‘everybody’ Francie , I mean is that ‘society’ and the ethos of the time allowed this stuff to happen.

The conditions which allowed these actions to occur were accepted in the society which existed at the time.

You must understand that what was completely normal and accepted in different eras would not be tolerated or accepted in today’s society.

There are numerous examples of this over the decades and to hang the ‘blame’ on a particular coterie, whilst accepting that some played a bigger part than others is frankly foolish.

Do you think that all the stuff which we accept and treat as normal today will be all accepted as normal in 2031 or 2041.

Go way out a that Francie and take off the auld wind-swept goggles off yersel.

19-04-2021 08:48AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ah the misrepresentation we are all so familiar with. At no point did I say that they were doing it for the outcomes we know about now.

You are outright lying now.

This is All off topic, but why then are you referring to political parties when the retrospective body is a neutral one, owned by us all, the state
You are too fond of the lie word, you use it when you don't like the reply or reaction
I can only tell you what I think, the word opinion is in the forum title

FrancieBrady · 19-04-2021 08:51AM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

When I say ‘everybody’ Francie , I mean is that ‘society’ and the ethos of the time allowed this stuff to happen.

The conditions which allowed these actions to occur were accepted in the society which existed at the time.

You must understand that what was completely normal and accepted in different eras would not be tolerated or accepted in today’s society.

There are numerous examples of this over the decades and to hang the ‘blame’ on a particular coterie, whilst accepting that some played a bigger part than others is frankly foolish.

Do you think that all the stuff which we accept and treat as normal today will be all accepted as normal in 2031 or 2041.

Go way out a that Francie and take off the auld wind-swept goggles off yersel.

So can you predict when 'leaking documents you believe to be confidential' will not be acceptable to FF FG and Greens?

Seems to me the old codgers of the power swap want to be able to throw the old hands up every time they are caught out and blame the 'times' or 'shure everyone is doing it' or anything else that removes any responsibility from themselves.

FrancieBrady · 19-04-2021 08:56AM

Marine Layer wrote: »

This is All off topic, but why then are you referring to political parties when the retrospective body is a neutral one, owned by us all, the state
You are too fond of the lie word, you use it when you don't like the reply or reaction
I can only tell you what I think, the word opinion is in the forum title

Not fond of the lie word...but you did lie to try and win an argument.
If you didn't lie, show me where I said the following:

That anyone

Marine Layer wrote:

Hired nuns and priests to kill babies

or:

Marine Layer wrote:

that they were doing it professly for the outcomes we now know about

They are lies Marine Layer, nothing more and nothing less and despicable debating tbh.

Brendan Bendar · 19-04-2021 09:02AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So can you predict when 'leaking documents you believe to be confidential' will not be acceptable to FF FG and Greens?

Seems to me the old codgers of the power swap want to be able to throw the old hands up every time they are caught out and blame the 'times' or 'shure everyone is doing it' or anything else that removes any responsibility from themselves.

Fairly crude attempt at deflection, and ignorance of the big picture.

But we are used to that attitude from those quarters.

19-04-2021 09:04AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They are lies Marine Layer, nothing more and nothing less and despicable debating tbh.

Asking a question is a lie now?
Theres a new one
Soon you'll have me agree'ing with Brendan,that theres a lot of pent up anger here as we near the end of this boxset minus your prefered outcome

Bubbaclaus · 19-04-2021 09:07AM

Have we managed to pin the entire existence of Mother & Baby homes on Varadkar yet?

FrancieBrady · 19-04-2021 09:07AM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Fairly crude attempt at deflection, and ignorance of the big picture.

But we are used to that attitude from those quarters.

Deflect?, it's bang on topic Brendi.

We have a Tanaiste confessing to wrongdoing some think he should face sanction for.
As you abdicated responsibility for past wrongdoings by the power swap by saying it wasn't thought of as a wrong at the time, I asked you when you envisaged leaking a document you knew to be confidential would be seen as a wrong and sanctionable offence?

FrancieBrady · 19-04-2021 09:10AM

You asked me to evidence something I never said. Shameful Marine, fecking shameful.

Marine Layer wrote: »

Can you point to any evidence, any at all that politicians at the time, hired nuns and priests to kill babies
Because that's basically what you are saying with this nonsense

19-04-2021 09:15AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Deflect?, it's bang on topic Brendi.

We have a Tanaiste confessing to wrongdoing some think he should face sanction for.
As you abdicated responsibility for past wrongdoings by the power swap by saying it wasn't thought of as a wrong at the time, I asked you when you envisaged leaking a document you knew to be confidential would be seen as a wrong and sanctionable offence?

But thats the problem with your analysis
What the state did then was not illegal
It would be now
But to be comparing mother and baby homes to the gp document
Don't go on the telly or radio with that one
Matt will fleece you

I suspect this is all bluster from you today so far because the box set is ending and the Times leaked the series finale being not the ending you want
But hey thats my opinion

FrancieBrady · 19-04-2021 09:16AM

Marine Layer wrote: »

But thats the problem with your analysis
What the state did then was not illegal
It would be now
But to be comparing mother and baby homes to the gp document
Don't go on the telly or radio with that one
Matt will fleece you
I suspect this is all bluster from you today so far because the box set is ending and the Times leaked the series finale being not the ending you want
But hey thats my opinion

Ah right...tis fine coz it wasn't illegal.

:rolleyes:

19-04-2021 09:22AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You asked me to evidence something I never said. Shameful Marine, fecking shameful.

Actually you did blame the political classes
Like to see the quote? AT 0756 AM :

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The political class, because of curse there was a benefit to them, allowed the church the unscrutinised position they had. The buck stops with them.
.

The rest of what you are complaining about is me asking questions,how ironic
Now pop that in your pipe and smoke it

Any chance we could get back on topic,if theres anything new to say about Leo?

19-04-2021 09:24AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ah right...tis fine coz it wasn't illegal.

:rolleyes:

Nope,its not fine never said that
Don't be lying

FrancieBrady · 19-04-2021 09:26AM

Marine Layer wrote: »

Actually you did blame the political classes
Like to see the quote? AT 0756 AM :

The rest of what you are complaining about is me asking questions,how ironic
Now pop that in your pipe and smoke it

Any chance we could get back on topic,if theres anything new to say about Leo?

Get off the stage, that is not saying that they:

Hired nuns and priests to kill babies

You lied, in a pathetic attempt to win an argument. Own it. Don't double down on it, that is worse.

19-04-2021 09:30AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Get off the stage, that is not saying that they:

You lied, in a pathetic attempt to win an argument. Own it. Don't double down on it, that is worse.

You care to explain how asking a question is a lie? Or why you left the question mark out of the quote
Slippery when wet isn't it?

FrancieBrady · 19-04-2021 09:45AM

Marine Layer wrote: »

You care to explain how asking a question is a lie? Or why you left the question mark out of the quote
Slippery when wet isn't it?

Read slowly and stop pretending you don't know what you did.

You asked a questions about something I never said.
You lied about what I said.

A completely dis-ingenuous misrepresentation of the debate we were having.

Standard behaviour here. Invent a strawman argument on behalf of somebody and then argue against it.
A lie and despicable.

19-04-2021 10:02AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Read slowly and stop pretending you don't know what you did.

You asked a questions about something I never said.
You lied about what I said.

A completely dis-ingenuous misrepresentation of the debate we were having.

Standard behaviour here. Invent a strawman argument on behalf of somebody and then argue against it.
A lie and despicable.

1.I asked a question
A question is not a lie
2.you said I lied about something else I said when patently I didn't and I posted a quote that proved this
3.The 'debate' in inverted coma's is all off topic in a leo vradakar thread,I wonder why

4.This thread is not about me or you
Pages of garbage won't change the outcome that the Sunday times Garda source has suggested
Thats not my fault,I welcome the process playing out whatever the outcome,it's our justice system

FrancieBrady · 19-04-2021 10:08AM

Marine Layer wrote: »

1.I asked a question
A question is not a lie
2.you said I lied about something else I said when patently I didn't and I posted a quote that proved this
3.The 'debate' in inverted coma's is all off topic in a leo vradakar thread,I wonder why
4.This thread is not about me or you
Pages of garbage won't change the outcome that the Sunday times Garda source has suggested
Thats not my fault,I welcome the process playing out whatever the outcome,it's our justice system

Doubling down will not obscure the fact that you lied about something and asked a question about that.

Nobody said that it would 'change an outcome' either.

I've already said several times I don't expect Varadkar to go to jail here.

Don't enter discussions if you need to lie about what was said Marine.

19-04-2021 10:20AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Don't enter discussions if you need to lie about what was said Marine.

How is a question a lie?
You keep avoiding that on your off topic journey today

FrancieBrady · 19-04-2021 10:22AM

Marine Layer wrote: »

How is a question a lie?
You keep avoiding that on your off topic journey today

YOU LIED ABOUT WHAT YOU WERE ASKING ABOUT WHICH WAS SOMETHING NOBODY SAID.

Jaysus, the cheek of you to be still trying it on.

DONE WITH THIS.

19-04-2021 10:47AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

YOU LIED ABOUT WHAT YOU WERE ASKING ABOUT WHICH WAS SOMETHING NOBODY SAID.

Jaysus, the cheek of you to be still trying it on.

DONE WITH THIS.

Thats nonsense, j ust asked a question
A question is a not a lie
Furthermore you said,I lied about you saying politicians were to blame
(I think they were,but you'd need proof to show it was deliberate,simply applying todays standards to say it,isnt enough)
You did say they were to blame,so accusing me of lying that you said that is wrong
Its there in black and white at 756am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The political class, because of curse there was a benefit to them, allowed the church the unscrutinised position they had. The buck stops with them.
.

Now hopefully we can get back on topic talking about the Leo' document

Bannasidhe · 19-04-2021 11:09AM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Along with everyone else in the country at the time.

My friend, everybody at the time was‘culpable’ by tacitly ignoring what went on.You cannot pin blame exclusively on any one part of society.

It was the way things were at the time .

Trying to hang blame on politicians is way too simple.

It eventually evolved like most things do.

Every one was culpable?
You might want to rethink that statement through there BB.
Bang of victim blaming is overwhelming.
Or don't the thousands of victims factor among 'everyone' in the country?

Brendan Bendar · 19-04-2021 12:31PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Every one was culpable?
You might want to rethink that statement through there BB.
Bang of victim blaming is overwhelming.
Or don't the thousands of victims factor among 'everyone' in the country?

Very strange response..... care to expand on it a bit.

Did you spot the little lads around ‘ culpable’ .

Couldn’t think of a better word at the time.

ohnonotgmail · 19-04-2021 12:41PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

Thats nonsense, j ust asked a question
A question is a not a lie
Furthermore you said,I lied about you saying politicians were to blame
(I think they were,but you'd need proof to show it was deliberate,simply applying todays standards to say it,isnt enough)
You did say they were to blame,so accusing me of lying that you said that is wrong
Its there in black and white at 756am

Now hopefully we can get back on topic talking about the Leo' document

Just asking questions?

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions

19-04-2021 01:03PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Just asking questions?

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions

I asked one question,simply inquiring what it is the 'political class' as Francie put it agreed to
That is not a lie,it's a rebuttal and framed as such

Incidentally,from your link

It should be noted that accusing one's opponent of "just asking questions" is a common derailment tactic and a way of poisoning the well. Asking questions in and of itself is not invalid.

Very useful thanks
Now can we get back to the topic,the threads not about me or its most prolific poster

Bannasidhe · 19-04-2021 01:09PM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Very strange response..... care to expand on it a bit.

Did you spot the little lads around ‘ culpable’ .

Couldn’t think of a better word at the time.

Couldn't you think of a better word than everyone either?

Everyone includes the victims Brendan.

Were they culpable?

Twice in your post you said 'everyone'.
For a fella who likes to split hairs when it suits your agenda I am simply pointing out that you may wish to rethink your claim that everyone was culpable as that's an 'interesting' take on the incarceration of thousands of women and children.

Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

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