Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

ZX7R · 15-04-2021 05:50PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Where did I say that? He is accusing the Irish state of being discriminatory.
Maybe as someone said here he should think before he speaks.

Discrimination is still a major problem in Italy ask Mario Balotelli.

I like Italy but it's probably the most racist place I've ever been.

When you're comparing a countries past to there actions know you should be more careful how you put it.
A country under a fascist dictatorship cannot be comparable.
Let's be clear and fair there is no clear data been issued in regards to how a country ends up on MHQ,
Poland should be on it and I live in it, in retrospect yes Ireland's MHQ does appear to be discriminatory.
And in regards to racism in soccer you don't have to look at Italy, our own league of Ireland supporters and our Premier League supporters are quite good at it also.

zebastein · 15-04-2021 05:50PM

saabsaab wrote: »

Not restricting travel was a big mistake here at Christmas. Bad when a foreign country lectures us and they are not in any position to do so.

I would have a good augh if Greece or Spain prevent all the Irish tourist to come in without quarantine in a few months time. You would not be able to complain because "a foreign country like Ireland who had a poor track record in Jan 21 are not in a position to lecture another country"

Guess what, Ireland signed to be in the EU so any EU country is in a position to request (and not lecture) the criteria explaining why the freedom of movement of their citizens is reduced.
They have all the reasons to ask for an explanation to the logic behind this. If Ireland was not in the EU, you could say "we do what we want", but you can't just take the money from the EU and do whatever you want with the rules

caveat emptor · 15-04-2021 05:51PM

fm wrote: »

Lucky Germany aren't on the MHQ list, there's loads of history there to dig up

Germany has largely dealt with it historically speaking. There are of course elements and the far right is on the rise everywhere.

Italy it's absolutely alive and kicking. Try live there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Italy

In 2011, a report by Human Rights Watch pointed to growing indications of a rise in xenophobia within the Italian society.[11][12]

A 2017 Pew Research Center survey indicated Italy as the most racist country in western Europe.[13]

A 2019 survey by Sgw revealed that 55% of the Italian interviewees justified the perpetration of racist acts.[14]

On the occasion of a European Parliament resolution to condemn structural racism and racially motivated violence in 2020, around half of the Italian members voted against it.[15]

According to a 2020 YouGov opinion polling, the Italian interviewees claimed that the second most common cause of discrimination practiced in the country lie with racist prejudices.[16]

A 2020 Eurispes report revealed that 15.6% of Italians contend that the Holocaust never happened, and that 23.9% of the population adhere to the conspiracy theory that Jews control their economy

ZX7R · 15-04-2021 05:55PM

saabsaab wrote: »

They also shouldn't lecture us.

You keep saying us .they are not lecturing us,they are questioning the Irish government MHQ.

saabsaab · 15-04-2021 05:56PM

zebastein wrote: »

I would have a good augh if Greece or Spain prevent all the Irish tourist to come in without quarantine in a few months time. You would not be able to complain because "a foreign country like Ireland who had a poor track record in Jan 21 are not in a position to lecture another country"

Guess what, Ireland signed to be in the EU so any EU country is in a position to request (and not lecture) the criteria explaining why the freedom of movement of their citizens is reduced.
They have all the reasons to ask for an explanation to the logic behind this. If Ireland was not in the EU, you could say "we do what we want", but you can't just take the money from the EU and do whatever you want with the rules

What rules? We must protect public health in this country. I am sure Ireland won't lecture Greece or Spain on whatever policy they take with their borders.

yoshimitsu · 15-04-2021 05:59PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Germany has largely dealt with it historically speaking. There are of course elements and the far right is on the rise everywhere.

Italy it's absolutely alive and kicking. Try live there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Italy

860,000 people experienced discrimination in Ireland – A CSO Report finds

https://www.socialjustice.ie/content/policy-issues/860000-people-experienced-discrimination-ireland-cso-report-finds

15-04-2021 06:01PM

saabsaab wrote: »

Not restricting travel was a big mistake here at Christmas. Bad when a foreign country lectures us and they are not in any position to do so.

not true they are right,

We decided to be part of Europe, than means abiding by the laws of Europe,

Free movemnet of people and goods is the foundation....

So you are wrong

Corholio · 15-04-2021 06:04PM

Travel being solely blamed for Christmas again. Christ, some never let up.

scamalert · 15-04-2021 06:04PM

saabsaab wrote: »

What rules? We must protect public health in this country. I am sure Ireland won't lecture Greece or Spain on whatever policy they take with their borders.

either your seriously retarded or a troll, as seems you no clue Ireland is part of eu, then blame italy for handling it bad, then they are racists, then you dont care about anything and we need to protect ourselves, get mentally checked out maybe or get some fresh air, as doesn't sound like you leave your back garden let alone travel :cool:

zebastein · 15-04-2021 06:07PM

saabsaab wrote: »

What rules? We must protect public health in this country. I am sure Ireland won't lecture Greece or Spain on whatever policy they take with their borders.

Do you genuinely know nothing about what the EU is?

https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/coronavirus-response/travel-during-coronavirus-pandemic_en#acommonapproachtotravelmeasures

Restrictions on travel should be proportionate and non-discriminatory, in line with the Council Recommendation from October 2020. Proportionate restrictions, including testing of travellers, should be maintained.

It is up to the EU commission to control if the restrictions are non-discriminatory. So EU members are legitimate to request the criteria to control that the countries on the list are added in a non-discriminatory way and based on facts, that could explain why Italy is on the list if Poland is not

caveat emptor · 15-04-2021 06:08PM

Mekhi Clean Teaspoonful wrote: »

not true they are right,

We decided to be part of Europe, than means abiding by the laws of Europe,

Free movemnet of people and goods is the foundation....

So you are wrong

Have we broken the rules? I don't think we have. Lots of EU countries have prevented freedom of movement on public health grounds. We were quite late in this regard.

Did they all break the law too? or is it lawful?

We should lecture the finish on this asap so.

15-04-2021 06:09PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Have we broken the rules? I don't think we have. Lots of EU countries have prevented freedom of movement on public health grounds. We were quite late in this regard.

Did they all break the law too? or is it lawful?

none of that is right, its all wrong

Father Hernandez · 15-04-2021 06:12PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Have we broken the rules? I don't think we have. Lots of EU countries have prevented freedom of movement on public health grounds. We were quite late in this regard.

Did they all break the law too? or is it lawful?

I assume the 'rules' Ireland may have broken refer to MHQ or locking up healthy people for 2 weeks and charging them for it. No other EU country has enforced MHQ, potentially for a good reason.

Hence why The European Commission are getting involved whether mandatory hotel quarantine is in line with EU law.

As it stands, it's uncertain whether it is or not. Either way, it's not a good look.

Corholio · 15-04-2021 06:19PM

With NI announcing pretty extensive openings and dates today, anyone like to estimate what their travel situation will be like come next month? All of their indoor hospitality and tourist accommodation will be open from around May 24th.

josip · 15-04-2021 06:29PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Have we broken the rules? I don't think we have. Lots of EU countries have prevented freedom of movement on public health grounds. We were quite late in this regard.

Did they all break the law too? or is it lawful?

We should lecture the finish on this asap so.

That's interesting, can you post the link to that please?

Str8outtaWuhan · 15-04-2021 06:31PM

Corholio wrote: »

With NI announcing pretty extensive openings and dates today, anyone like to estimate what their travel situation will be like come next month? All of their indoor hospitality and tourist accommodation will be open from around May 24th.

Northern irish tourism is going to boom this year. I can't see us allowing that level until july at the earliest

caveat emptor · 15-04-2021 06:33PM

josip wrote: »

That's interesting, can you post the link to that please?

Sure thing Josip.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travel_restrictions_related_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic#Europe

normanoffside · 15-04-2021 06:37PM

This should finally kill it off, at least for EU countries.

https://twitter.com/IrishTimes/status/1382752987253182465

jellies · 15-04-2021 06:38PM

"The European Commission has contacted Irish authorities due to concerns over whether mandatory hotel quarantine is in line with EU law.

It comes after five EU member states were added to the ‘red list’ requiring arrivals to undergo mandatory hotel quarantine at the cost of €1,875 for 12 nights, with Austria, Belgium, France, Luxembourg and Italy now affected.

“The Commission is looking into these measures as there are some concerns in relation to the general principles of EU law, in particular proportionality and non-discrimination,” a Commission spokesman said.

“We are in contact with the Irish authorities and will ask them for clarifications on this matter and the criteria used to determine the designated countries" etc.

Hopefully we'll get rid of Michael Martin and Stephen Donnelly by the time this fiasco is over.

Corholio · 15-04-2021 06:39PM

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Northern irish tourism is going to boom this year. I can't see us allowing that level until july at the earliest

Ya absolutely. Just wondering if any details about flying in/out of NI had come out, or will probably hear more details soon.

eltonyio · 15-04-2021 06:41PM

Fantastic that the commission is questioning this, although tragic that as usual we need the EU or the courts to be brought into line.

zebastein · 15-04-2021 06:44PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Have we broken the rules? I don't think we have. Lots of EU countries have prevented freedom of movement on public health grounds. We were quite late in this regard.

Did they all break the law too? or is it lawful?

We should lecture the finish on this asap so.

You know that what you quote is talking about border control, which has nothing to do with preventing a legal EU citizen to move where he wants?
That is obvious from the table and from the news that the Finnish or the French have not blocked everyone at the borders for the last 6years, they are just controlling the papers of people crossing the borders.

josip · 15-04-2021 06:45PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Sure thing Josip.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travel_restrictions_related_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic#Europe

From the same link

...Travel restrictions have reduced the spread of the virus, but because they were first implemented after community spread was established in multiple countries in different regions of the world, they produced only a modest reduction in the total number of people infected. Travel restrictions may be most important at the start and end of the pandemic.
The travel restrictions have caused economic harm to the tourism industry through lost income and social harm to people who were unable travel for family or other reasons...

caveat emptor · 15-04-2021 06:46PM

zebastein wrote: »

You know that what you quote is talking about border control, which has nothing to do with preventing a legal EU citizen to move where he wants?
That is obvious from the table and from the news that the Finnish or the French have not blocked everyone at the borders for the last 6years, they are just controlling the papers of people crossing the borders.

But what about freedom of movement of people as enshrined in EU law?>>

caveat emptor · 15-04-2021 06:49PM

The EU might have to look at it's law.

At the heart of global pandemic governance is the WHO’s International Health Regulations (2005) (IHR), with 194 national signatories, which sets out key principles to guide national preparedness and response. At European regional level, EU Decision 1082/13 is the key legal instrument for cross border threats to health. This explicitly recognises and endorses compliance with the IHR at Articles (6), (12) and (26).

Both the IHR and Decision 1082/13 require signatory states to develop national plans for pandemic preparedness and response [1], [2]. Many countries do now have plans in place, which can include controversial, but sometimes necessary, measures such as rationing of resources, enforced isolation or quarantine, or seizure of goods and property. However, given the magnitude of a pandemic threat, both the WHO [3] and the EU (through the ECDC) [4] also encourage the use of legal frameworks to support those plans. “Legal frameworks” may be “legislation, laws, regulation, administrative requirements, policies or other government instruments” [5]. National legislation is “hard law”, the strongest and most formal mode of governance.

While EU Member States are encouraged to plan for pandemics within a legal framework, the principle of sovereignty means that each state has the discretion to devise its own unique legal approach within the broad parameters of WHO and EU guidance [14]. While this allows for flexibility in governance, which is culturally and politically sensible, it risks a loss of coherence with neighbouring states and the international response system. National laws that encompass the terms of the IHR and Decision 1082/13 should enable better compliance and enforcement at local level.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168851017302221

zebastein · 15-04-2021 06:51PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

But what about freedom of movement of people as enshrined in EU law?>>

Border control is what happens when you land in Dublin Airport and that you have to show your passport to prove you are a legal EU citizen. At which point of the process does it restrict the freedom of movement? None, so it is legal.

At this point I am not sure if you are a troll or if you genuinely don't understand what is a control and what is a detention

stephenjmcd · 15-04-2021 06:52PM

Fully vaccinated to shortly be exempt from MHQ

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1382767671616409601?s=19

saabsaab · 15-04-2021 06:52PM

Mekhi Clean Teaspoonful wrote: »

SAAB SAAB i just draging this forum down, is there a moderator?

Report me then! For what I can't imagine except that you don't agree with me.

Chuck Norris 2021 · 15-04-2021 06:53PM

As there's been a lot of talk about Italy this evening I thought I'd share my experience of being there last year. We contacted both friends, and our hosts on a continual basis for months. It started as just checking in to see how everyone was doing, and later in the time asking if they were still happy for us to visit. We were ultra careful in the run up to it, to make sure we took nothing with us. Their cases were lower than ours when we went. I was so conscious on the trip out there, wondering if we would be wanted or not. We were determined to go if we could, to try and spend some cash and support business owners we know. During the whole run up to going, all the messages we received from Italy were messages of hope and optimism. Their attitude was that the return of foreign visitors was the return of normality. The reception we received everywhere we went was unreal. All so welcoming, grateful and optimistic. On our first night, a bar owner apologised for the fact that Italy was the first place in Europe to have Covid, he said 'we are sorry for what we brought you'.
Now I look at the reaction of people in this country and I'm embarrassed to Irish. We certainly are no longer the land of a thousand welcomes. I know we already had an abnormally high level of begrudgers (I put some of it down to the weather, and it's bred into some of us), but since covid we are gone into over drive. I think the damage to our reputation is going to be long lasting. We are probably now viewed as the most unwelcoming country in Europe. We're a little rock in the north Atlantic and we cannot afford to fall out with Europe. Within our country, I think this and the last general election have caused the greatest division since the civil war.

zebastein · 15-04-2021 06:55PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

The EU might have to look at it's law.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168851017302221

Thanks for quoting in bold "within the broad parameters of EU guidance", which is the root of the question. The EU commission gave their guidance ( I posted the link in this thread today), it has been signed by Ireland in oct/nov 2020, so now the commission wants to control that the MHQ is in line with this guidance

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

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