Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

Blut2 · 15-04-2021 10:49AM

The Green certificate isn't just negative PCR or vaccination, it also accepts evidence of covid recovery for immunity purposes. That will open the door for anyone willing to get an antibody test to show they've had covid already too.

About 8% of Irish adults have had confirmed covid already, and likely another 5-10% who've had it but didn't get tested at the time. And much more concentrated in younger demographics. So a decent % of the adult population who haven't been vaccinated yet by June should be covered by that.

conal08 · 15-04-2021 12:18PM

Are the Gardaí at Dublin Airport 24/7 checking those who are intending to travel or is it only from first thing in the morning? i.e. If one showed up to the airport at 4 / 5am, would you be likely to be stopped?

Klonker · 15-04-2021 12:31PM

I've my flights booked to the EU for mid June so hopefully I won't have to change them

I'm happy to take a PCR test on the way out and back. It'll be costly but my partner hasn't seen her mother in almost a year so it'll be well worth it.

Ray Donovan · 15-04-2021 12:38PM

Klonker wrote: »

I've my flights booked to the EU for mid June so hopefully I won't have to change them

I'm happy to take a PCR test on the way out and back. It'll be costly but my partner hasn't seen her mother in almost a year so it'll be well worth it.

What country? You probably have to take a PCR to get in there regardless right now.

Also mid June is optimistic how inept our government is. I think it’ll take the full 6 weeks to get it up & running.

Klonker · 15-04-2021 12:50PM

Ray Donovan wrote: »

What country? You probably have to take a PCR to get in there regardless right now.

Also mid June is optimistic how inept our government is. I think it’ll take the full 6 weeks to get it up & running.

Bulgaria. I think they're on the opposite end of the spectrum to Ireland when if comes to severity of restrictions! I don't know under this vaccine passport scheme if any countries can decide that you don't need a vaccine cert/pcr/antibody cert to enter, I assumed that I'd need a pcr to go to Bulgaria from here as I more than likely won't be vaccinated by then but I'm open to correction.

I know mid June is optimistic but it's with Ryanair and I can always change flights for free with a weeks notice. Looking forward to a bit of sun

15-04-2021 12:53PM

conal08 wrote: »

Are the Gardaí at Dublin Airport 24/7 checking those who are intending to travel or is it only from first thing in the morning? i.e. If one showed up to the airport at 4 / 5am, would you be likely to be stopped?

Its staggered so some or all may be operating. You may encounter a checkpoint on the way in or not, same with inside. Theres no period of no Gardai at all but theres also only full presence during rush hour

Micky 32 · 15-04-2021 01:14PM

Aer Lingus calls for engagement on plan to restart aviation

“””Aer Lingus has called for urgent engagement with the government to finalise a new Aviation Restart Plan, which the airline says puts forward a pathway to the safe resumption of international travel in the coming months.

Donal Moriarty, the chief corporate affairs officer with the airline told RTÉ Radio's News at One programme that the study by the National Civil Aviation Development Forum, which the airline is part of, demands the government identify and confirm "the metrics" that will enable the restoration of international travel.

He said the stakeholders are not looking for a specific date to resume travel, but demand 'clear, transparent and objective criteria' that can be measured, beyond just data on daily infection rates.

Mr Moriarity said that the metrics should also take into account the increased numbers of people vaccinated and the reduced hospitalisations in Ireland and in other countries.

He said that mandatory quarantine is not a proportionate measure and is "out of step" with advice from both the World Health Organization and the European Centre for Disease Control. “””

Minister Martin’s comments on tourism “ Minister Martin said "there has to be an agreed international method to show proof of vaccination" for overseas visitors who have been vaccinated. ””

15-04-2021 01:49PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

Aer Lingus calls for engagement on plan to restart aviation

“””Aer Lingus has called for urgent engagement with the government to finalise a new Aviation Restart Plan, which the airline says puts forward a pathway to the safe resumption of international travel in the coming months.

Donal Moriarty, the chief corporate affairs officer with the airline told RTÉ Radio's News at One programme that the study by the National Civil Aviation Development Forum, which the airline is part of, demands the government identify and confirm "the metrics" that will enable the restoration of international travel.

He said the stakeholders are not looking for a specific date to resume travel, but demand 'clear, transparent and objective criteria' that can be measured, beyond just data on daily infection rates.

Mr Moriarity said that the metrics should also take into account the increased numbers of people vaccinated and the reduced hospitalisations in Ireland and in other countries.

He said that mandatory quarantine is not a proportionate measure and is "out of step" with advice from both the World Health Organization and the European Centre for Disease Control. “””

Minister Martin’s comments on tourism “ Minister Martin said "there has to be an agreed international method to show proof of vaccination" for overseas visitors who have been vaccinated. ””

There’s not going to be an international agreement. There’ll be an EU certificate, a UK one, some kind of US one (though I am not sure will be a national standard) etc. The EU said yesterday it would be up to member states to agree bilateral arrangements with third countries

Basically travel outside of the EU bubble has sh1tshow written all over it

titan18 · 15-04-2021 02:04PM

Deleted User wrote: »

There’s not going to be an international agreement. There’ll be an EU certificate, a UK one, some kind of US one (though I am not sure will be a national standard) etc. The EU said yesterday it would be up to member states to agree bilateral arrangements with third countries

Basically travel outside of the EU bubble has sh1tshow written all over it

Tbf, I'd imagine the vast majority of our travel is within the UK and EU, and then another significant percentage to the US. Both business and leisure travel all likely falls into that so once there's an agreement at those 3, then it's not too bad. Even EU/EEA takes care of a lot of the leisure travel people want to do (sun holidays, skiing, city breaks etc).

Red Silurian · 15-04-2021 02:33PM

jellies wrote: »

You can also travel to Belfast and no test required.

Or derry, which is fine if that suits you but it doesn't suit everybody

stephenjmcd · 15-04-2021 03:35PM

Ambassador's of EU countries have written to the minister for health and the Italian's have gone that step further

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1382718094112612353?s=19

Hellrazer · 15-04-2021 03:56PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Ambassador's of EU countries have written to the minister for health and the Italian's have gone that step further

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1382718094112612353?s=19

Well at least Donnelly will get a twitter mention in that video

:D

mmclo · 15-04-2021 04:00PM

Blut2 wrote: »

It wasn't MEPs. It was representatives of the Irish government, acting on the authority of the state:

https://www.thejournal.ie/council-of-eu-5410140-Apr2021/

Though a majority of our MEPs - including all FF & FG ones - have also voted in favour of it previously too.

Thats how it would work in normal times yes. ie the EU would not overrule Irish restrictions.

The EU here is however specifically bringing in a regulation that codifies restrictions across the entire block. With the approval of all member states. So it becomes the default, and supersedes any preceding national restrictions. As your own post in #4614 quotes the Irish government would have to effectively ask permission, with justification, for bringing in any additional restrictions that conflict with this.

That's not how I read it as much as I would like it, they don't say permission just provide the information. It's really a lowest common denominator

caveat emptor · 15-04-2021 04:00PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Ambassador's of EU countries have written to the minister for health and the Italian's have gone that step further

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1382718094112612353?s=19

It was grand when they stopped the Chinese though. Not discriminatory at all :pac:

https://www.thejournal.ie/italian-ambassador-paolo-serpi-coronavirus-spread-italy-5040728-Mar2020/

March 2020

“We had measures going on since the end of January to control the coming of people from China, and from entering and exiting the country by plane. We immediately started measures one by one,” he added.

Ambassador Serpi said the Italian community in Ireland are aware of the limitations around travelling to their home country for the foreseeable future.
He said the measures restricting travel in and out of the country until 3 April could be extended but that decision will be made in two to three weeks time.

“The people working here know this and if it is not absolutely necessary they will not go to Italy. This is also for me and my family. This is a moment and if there is a working reason to move, you move, otherwise you stay at home and don’t move.”

saabsaab · 15-04-2021 04:04PM

The Italian record isn't great on Covid.

a_squirrelman · 15-04-2021 04:10PM

saabsaab wrote: »

The Italian record isn't great on Covid.

You really are something else.

Chuck Norris 2021 · 15-04-2021 04:11PM

saabsaab wrote: »

The Italian record isn't great on Covid.

The Italians were the first in Europe to experience something that we all just assumed was going on in China. We would have been a lot worse had they not advised and warned us. We owe them a lot, and it took an awful toll on their country.

mmclo · 15-04-2021 04:16PM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Right, and where in there does it guarantee your freedom of movement for holidays? Considering that's the part I referred to. That's exactly what I questioned. Here's where I said it:

In result to your statement:

So again, what is it enshrined that Ireland cannot stop tourists from coming in to Ireland? No other debates, no changing. That's your claim, I have queried it, can you back it up?

Oh and thats a proposal, so not even agreed at eu level. And absolutely not forced on Ireland because the Irish MEPs said so which was another one of your claims so I would also like to see where the eu decided that MEPs are now controlling the country and not our ministers in actual government. Can you prove that claim?

So we've at least established that it is a regulation

Hmmm, EU law doesn't go in to holidays etc, Art 21 covers freedom of movement, our Constitution (by way of various referendums to amend it) and Van Gend en Loos 1954 set out the superiority of the treaties. This regulation is made under the relevant section of the treaties

I'm not really making claims, I have some involvement in the EU legislative procedure so just trying to explain it and interpret it in the light of these proposals, people can accept it or not

I find it hard to follow the rest of your points to be honest, I have said elsewhere that Ireland could still have strict restrictions under this regulation, others have a different view, that's how it works, I have quoted the sections of the regulation that support my view

Yes it is a proposal, that's the Commission fulfilling its role under the treaties. It is now going through the legislative process under the "ordinary procedure" where MEP's and the Council are co-legislators, not sure what your point is? This is how EU law works. MEP's are co-legislators with the Council (ministers) that's the current legal situation for about 85% of EU legislation

Father Hernandez · 15-04-2021 04:17PM

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1382724150452744193?s=20

We may not be traveling abroad soon but I imagine a lot of people in the South will be heading North for nights away.

namloc1980 · 15-04-2021 04:18PM

saabsaab wrote: »

The Italian record isn't great on Covid.

Oh great, Captain Hindsight is here to tell us what Italy did wrong.

saabsaab · 15-04-2021 04:18PM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

The Italians were the first in Europe to experience something that we all just assumed was going on in China. We would have been a lot worse had they not advised and warned us. We owe them a lot, and it took an awful toll on their country.

We saw what happened. Still many came over even when the match was cancelled. Should have been stopped.

Father Hernandez · 15-04-2021 04:22PM

saabsaab wrote: »

We saw what happened. Still many came over even when the match was cancelled. Should have been stopped.

How many came over in the end?

caveat emptor · 15-04-2021 04:22PM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

The Italians were the first in Europe to experience something that we all just assumed was going on in China. We would have been a lot worse had they not advised and warned us. We owe them a lot, and it took an awful toll on their country.

It's just fortunate that people were able to go skiing there and spend some yo-yos just before things got hairy.

Let's not misremember. Not everyone feels the way you do.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/i-went-ski-trip-23-17906705

'I went on a ski trip with 23 other people - 17 of us came back with coronavirus'

Andrew and his friends stayed in a chalet in Selva di Gardena as part of a Ski Total package between February 22 and 29.

"This could have been avoided, firstly with the Italian authorities being honest about the situation. I don’t think they've been honest at all."

The virus was spreading across northern Italy, but Andrew said official advice at the time only applied to the Lombardy region.

"I was informed that as far they were concerned, there was no coronavirus in the Dolomites," he said.

"This could have been avoided, firstly with the Italian authorities being honest about the situation. I don’t think they've been honest at all.

"I feel that they've been more worried about their ski tourism trade in the last few weeks.

"Only now is Italy starting to lock down. It’s too late after the horse has bolted.

"They were allowing people like us to cross the border to Austria and then fly home.

Golfman64 · 15-04-2021 04:22PM

saabsaab wrote: »

The Italian record isn't great on Covid.

At least they won’t leave a lasting xenophobic impression on some of their nearest and most important tourism and trade partners. I have no doubt that many of the loon mob who called for MHQ will be the first ones complaining when public sector salaries and services are cut as a direct impact of reduced FDI and inbound tourism in the coming years.

josip · 15-04-2021 04:22PM

mmclo wrote: »

So we've at least established that it is a regulation

Hmmm, EU law doesn't go in to holidays etc, Art 21 covers freedom of movement, our Constitution (by way of various referendums to amend it) and Van Gend en Loos 1954 set out the superiority of the treaties. This regulation is made under the relevant section of the treaties

I'm not really making claims, I have some involvement in the EU legislative procedure so just trying to explain it and interpret it in the light of these proposals, people can accept it or not

...

You what ?! You mean you actually know what you're talking about ?

How dare you post here with the rest of us.
Off with you to the Relaxation of Restrictions thread.

Chuck Norris 2021 · 15-04-2021 04:22PM

saabsaab wrote: »

We saw what happened. Still many came over even when the match was cancelled. Should have been stopped.

I'm surprised you responded, if I'd said something so disgusting I'd be logging off and hoping people forgot. Also, if I was Italian I'd have been getting the hell out of dodge too with the completely horrific scenes in Bergamo. I suppose no one else was travelling then either were they?

saabsaab · 15-04-2021 04:24PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Oh great, Captain Hindsight is here to tell us what Italy did wrong.

Check my posts at the time on the coronavirus threads you'll find no hindsight involved in seeing what was coming. A few other were the same. Example below..

26-02-2020, 11:22 #2032
saabsaab
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,705
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Travel from Northern Italy should be stopped now. No point in taking the chance here.
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Wallander · 15-04-2021 04:30PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

It was grand when they stopped the Chinese though. Not discriminatory at all :pac:

https://www.thejournal.ie/italian-ambassador-paolo-serpi-coronavirus-spread-italy-5040728-Mar2020/

March 2020

Ireland is entirely out of step with the rest of the EU in putting extreme travel restrictions in place now. Indeed many EU countries put up a load of border closures and flight bans last spring in failed attempts to keep Covid out, and learned the hard way that the huge inconvenience caused just wasn't worth it for the limited impact. After a slow drip-drip-drip of social media and opposition pressure, the Irish government is taking similar steps a year later that are likely to end in the same way.

Chuck Norris 2021 · 15-04-2021 04:30PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

It's just fortunate that people were able to go skiing there and spend some yo-yos just before things got hairy.

Let's not misremember. Not everyone feels the way you do.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/i-went-ski-trip-23-17906705

I'm sure the Manchester Evening Standard is a top notch publication, I would put a lot of trust in what they reported.

And what was the rest of the world doing? Very easy to point the finger of blame at a bunch of people that were experiencing something completely new and unknown on this side of the world. So that article is all that stuck with you from the Italian response? Not the images from inside hospitals in Bergamo, with people dying in corridors? Some people just have no decency.

caveat emptor · 15-04-2021 04:34PM

Wallander wrote: »

Ireland is entirely out of step with the rest of the EU in putting extreme travel restrictions in place now. Indeed many EU countries put up a load of border closures and flight bans last spring in failed attempts to keep Covid out, and learned the hard way that the huge inconvenience caused just wasn't worth it for the limited impact. After a slow drip-drip-drip of social media and opposition pressure, the Irish government is taking similar steps a year later that are likely to end in the same way.

It may be out of step. It doesn't mean it's wrong..
Most people realise that perpetual restrictions while it can just fly in is detrimental to their quality of life.

https://twitter.com/andrewflood/status/1382717364878385162?s=20

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

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