Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

Micky 32 · 14-04-2021 05:09PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Donnelly confirming that is looking at vaccinated people needing to quarantine at home and not in a hotel.

And also that EU passport, once agreed, will mean that EU will not be subject to MHQ

Some sense. Inevitable

But still quarantine at home?

saabsaab · 14-04-2021 05:14PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

But still quarantine at home?

Will they? They all didn't the last time which is why MHQ was introduced.

a_squirrelman · 14-04-2021 05:19PM

saabsaab wrote: »

Will they? They all didn't the last time which is why MHQ was introduced.

Neither did all of you.

Feria40 · 14-04-2021 05:21PM

scamalert wrote: »

few issues in there if gov opts to vaccinate people fully come 3 months between two dosages that July could turn into October for most, then Ive seen there's different test ranging from 50quid up to 200, does it mean one is just a self check and another is good to fly.
Also given Irish gov hard to imagine they would introduce green passes in any timely fashion.

way i see it if one is leaving country then its possible to get out, but probably safe to say forget any holidays for this year.

Not sure I fully understand you but that could be me!

If, and I accept it's only if at this point, the gov signs up to the EU passport, then vacination doesn't come into it.

The EU travel cert would allow free travel under 3 criteria

1. Already infected with Covid and therefore perhaps somewhat immune ( really don't know how this could work)

2. If you are Vacinated

3. If you present a negative PCR result.

It's any one of these three, not a combination.

Of course the gov could choose not to sign up but as most countries in Europe are on board with the idea then it will be difficult to resist

saabsaab · 14-04-2021 05:23PM

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Neither did all of you.

Speak for yourself! I had no reason to quarantine.

Wallander · 14-04-2021 05:37PM

Feria40 wrote: »

Not sure I fully understand you but that could be me!

If, and I accept it's only if at this point, the gov signs up to the EU passport, then vacination doesn't come into it.

The EU travel cert would allow free travel under 3 criteria

1. Already infected with Covid and therefore perhaps somewhat immune ( really don't know how this could work)

2. If you are Vacinated

3. If you present a negative PCR result.

It's any one of these three, not a combination.

Of course the gov could choose not to sign up but as most countries in Europe are on board with the idea then it will be difficult to resist

I'm prepared for a long and hard battle with the government on this. This afternoon it sounded like they wanted to exempt the vaccinated from MHQ but they were worried a doctor didn't want it and had to refer the matter to a committee to report on. I don't expect them to suddenly allow free travel under the passport system, but definitely the more EU countries embrace it and the sillier Ireland looks, the better!

Blut2 · 14-04-2021 05:37PM

Feria40 wrote: »

Not sure I fully understand you but that could be me!

If, and I accept it's only if at this point, the gov signs up to the EU passport, then vacination doesn't come into it.

The EU travel cert would allow free travel under 3 criteria

1. Already infected with Covid and therefore perhaps somewhat immune ( really don't know how this could work)

2. If you are Vacinated

3. If you present a negative PCR result.

It's any one of these three, not a combination.

Of course the gov could choose not to sign up but as most countries in Europe are on board with the idea then it will be difficult to resist

The government can't choose not to sign up. Its going to be mandatory for all EU states, and has already been approved by representatives from all states (including Ireland) to move to a vote in the EU parliament this week. Where theres no question of it not being approved in.

Its currently scheduled to be voted on in the EU parliament sometime April 26th-29th, and then implemented by early June. But theres a lot of pressure from the Southern European economies to speed that up.

Feria40 · 14-04-2021 05:41PM

Blut2 wrote: »

The government can't choose not to sign up. Its going to be mandatory for all EU states, and has already been approved by representatives from all states (including Ireland) to move to a vote in the EU parliament this week. Where theres no question of it not being approved in.

Its currently scheduled to be voted on in the EU parliament sometime April 26th-29th, and then implemented by early June. But theres a lot of pressure from the Southern European economies to speed that up.

But mandatory with caveats I bet!

ZX7R · 14-04-2021 05:47PM

Feria40 wrote: »

Not sure I fully understand you but that could be me!

If, and I accept it's only if at this point, the gov signs up to the EU passport, then vacination doesn't come into it.

The EU travel cert would allow free travel under 3 criteria

1. Already infected with Covid and therefore perhaps somewhat immune ( really don't know how this could work)

2. If you are Vacinated

3. If you present a negative PCR result.

It's any one of these three, not a combination.

Of course the gov could choose not to sign up but as most countries in Europe are on board with the idea then it will be difficult to resist

No 1, would be a blood test confirming antibodies.

14-04-2021 05:47PM

Wallander wrote: »

I'm prepared for a long and hard battle with the government on this. This afternoon it sounded like they wanted to exempt the vaccinated from MHQ but they were worried a doctor didn't want it and had to refer the matter to a committee to report on. I don't expect them to suddenly allow free travel under the passport system, but definitely the more EU countries embrace it and the sillier Ireland looks, the better!

I think it’s one thing to exempt a vaccinated person from MHQ. I think that’s a given at this stage.

It’s another to exempt them from a requirement to get a PCR test or a requirement to self-isolate at home for 14 days. I imagine that there will be resistance to that, and to allowing unfettered travel for vaccinated people

Ray Donovan · 14-04-2021 05:48PM

Blut2 wrote: »

The government can't choose not to sign up. Its going to be mandatory for all EU states, and has already been approved by representatives from all states (including Ireland) to move to a vote in the EU parliament this week. Where theres no question of it not being approved in.

Its currently scheduled to be voted on in the EU parliament sometime April 26th-29th, and then implemented by early June. But theres a lot of pressure from the Southern European economies to speed that up.

Independent reported today that it would be made law by start of June and member states would have 6 weeks to have it operational. We will obviously drag the arse out of that 6 weeks so mid July at best going by that report.

14-04-2021 05:52PM

Mr. Karate wrote: »

I don't have an ounce of sympathy for him or any other worthless politician crying that they're being "abused" on social media. They've ruined peoples lives and businesses for the last year. With No real end in sight. All for a virus with a 99.96% survival rate. All these lockdowns, masks social distancing and we're no better off.

What do you get 99.6% from? It's 98 globally

Blut2 · 14-04-2021 05:52PM

Feria40 wrote: »

But mandatory with caveats I bet!

No, its mandatory in operation exactly as its laid out by the EU.

The only half caveat is a window of 6 weeks to implement it for national governments, as Ray Donovan mentions. But that still means by roughly July 15th at the absolute latest the Irish government won't be able to keep people traveling freely to and from anywhere in the EU.

14-04-2021 05:54PM

Blut2 wrote: »

The government can't choose not to sign up. Its going to be mandatory for all EU states, and has already been approved by representatives from all states (including Ireland) to move to a vote in the EU parliament this week. Where theres no question of it not being approved in.

Its currently scheduled to be voted on in the EU parliament sometime April 26th-29th, and then implemented by early June. But theres a lot of pressure from the Southern European economies to speed that up.

How will it be mandatory? Ireland is not schengen. We retained control of our borders

Ray Donovan · 14-04-2021 06:00PM

Blut2 wrote: »

No, its mandatory in operation exactly as its laid out by the EU.

The only half caveat is a window of 6 weeks to implement it for national governments, as Ray Donovan mentions. But that still means by roughly July 15th at the absolute latest the Irish government won't be able to keep people traveling freely to and from anywhere in the EU.

The acid test of Ireland’s position on the Travel Cert will be when the the €2,000 travel fine is up for renewal in mid June. If they renew that then us signing up to the travel cert is only a smoke screen to try and save face with the EU.

And as I have previously mentioned be prepared for them to try and deceive the general public with language such as vaccine passport etc in the hope that people won’t believe they are eligible for the pass.

Feria40 · 14-04-2021 06:01PM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

How will it be mandatory? Ireland is not schengen. We retained control of our borders

This is where th issue is.

I don't believe it can fully mandatory.

Having said that if we sign up, which I expect we will, we will go along with all elements as we have always been top of the EU class

14-04-2021 06:03PM

zebastein wrote: »

Genuine question: is it the job of the airline to control the paperwork required to enter a country ?
My understanding is that the airline has control over the rules of international travel (security / valid passport) and can decide to allow someone to board based on that, but when it comes to the rules of a country it is up to the country itself to control the passenger through the immigration control.

Let's say the MHQ website stops taking bookings (as it is the case now), how can an airline crew decide if it is fair or not to let someone fly ? The country has authority to let people in and to decide under which condition, but people have to show up in the country to be able to discuss it.

It's not for any private company to enforce national laws. They can incorporate it into their terms and conditions and some have but ultimately, law enforcement should be handled by professionals.

saabsaab wrote: »

Some still aren't! Any airline that boards a person who doesn't have a valid negative test and also hasn't have a place in MHQ should be hit with a fine say 1,000 and have to pay for the quarantine. That might sort it out fast!

It's amazing how fast people are too just hand power over. Saab is perfectly happy for Ryanair staff to obtain law enforcement powers just like that and to deny Irish residents the ability to return to where they live.

Jesus wept.

Hellrazer wrote: »

So another Flip Flop from Fianna Fail.

They are just making themselves look more and more incompetent as the days go by.

Would you rather they didn't change and just forced an incorrect system because they can't be seen to flip flop?

Blut2 · 14-04-2021 06:06PM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

How will it be mandatory? Ireland is not schengen. We retained control of our borders

Because Ireland's relevant representatives to the EU already consented to approve its use for Ireland. We've already agreed to implement it - in full - once the parliament passes it.

Ray Donovan wrote: »

The acid test of Ireland’s position on the Travel Cert will be when the the €2,000 travel fine is up for renewal in mid June. If they renew that then us signing up to the travel cert is only a smoke screen to try and save face with the EU.

And as I have previously mentioned be prepared for them to try and deceive the general public with language such as vaccine passport etc in the hope that people won’t believe they are eligible for the pass.

The €2000 fine isn't a major deterrent even at present - all you need to do is list one of the many legal reasons for travel when asked and you're exempt from it. So I can't see it making much of a difference once word gets out that we can travel anywhere in the EU easily.

SusanC10 · 14-04-2021 06:17PM

Has anyone read anything on children in relation to the proposed EU Pass ?
Do they fall under the negative test category?

Ray Donovan · 14-04-2021 06:21PM

Blut2 wrote: »

Because Ireland's relevant representatives to the EU already consented to approve its use for Ireland. We've already agreed to implement it - in full - once the parliament passes it.

The €2000 fine isn't a major deterrent even at present - all you need to do is list one of the many legal reasons for travel when asked and you're exempt from it. So I can't see it making much of a difference once word gets out that we can travel anywhere in the EU easily.

I think it would be a bit strange to on one hand have us signed up to an EU travel Certificate and on the other still have a €2,000 fine in place for anyone trying to leave the country for non-essential travel.

Hellrazer · 14-04-2021 06:21PM

SusanC10 wrote: »

Has anyone read anything on children in relation to the proposed EU Pass ?
Do they fall under the negative test category?

I hope so SusanC10 - Im planning on a trip to Spain for July / August and my 2 are under 16 - theres been very little said about children with regards to the travel passport.

Ray Donovan · 14-04-2021 06:34PM

Does anyone out there know when the €2,000 fine for non essential travel from the airport is to expire i.e it’s sunset clause. The more I think about it the more I think this is relevant to our approach to the EU travel cert.

scamalert · 14-04-2021 06:34PM

Feria40 wrote: »

Not sure I fully understand you but that could be me!

If, and I accept it's only if at this point, the gov signs up to the EU passport, then vacination doesn't come into it.

The EU travel cert would allow free travel under 3 criteria

1. Already infected with Covid and therefore perhaps somewhat immune ( really don't know how this could work)

2. If you are Vacinated

3. If you present a negative PCR result.

It's any one of these three, not a combination.

Of course the gov could choose not to sign up but as most countries in Europe are on board with the idea then it will be difficult to resist

thanks for breakdown, my point was in relation to now how incoming passengers are treated where negative test and fully vaccinated are still required to jump trough hoops, if its negative test or fully vaccinated that opens the doors then fair enough, but if the system remains even after vaccination where people will be required to get negative test on top that makes no sense to me, as during normal times when traveling its enough nonsense, current situation where one needs to fill out forms, get tested prior/leaving and having vaccine means nothing makes you wonder whats the point then.

M_Murphy57 · 14-04-2021 06:44PM

Ray Donovan wrote: »

Does anyone out there know when the €2,000 fine for non essential travel from the airport is to expire i.e it’s sunset clause. The more I think about it the more I think this is relevant to our approach to the EU travel cert.

Early June, around the same time theyd need to sign up to the travel passport.

Assume nothing with these incompetent buffoons though.

saabsaab · 14-04-2021 06:48PM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

It's not for any private company to enforce national laws. They can incorporate it into their terms and conditions and some have but ultimately, law enforcement should be handled by professionals.

It's amazing how fast people are too just hand power over. Saab is perfectly happy for Ryanair staff to obtain law enforcement powers just like that and to deny Irish residents the ability to return to where they live.

Jesus wept.

Would you rather they didn't change and just forced an incorrect system because they can't be seen to flip flop?

Nothing to do with law enforcement. As is already the case if you don't have certain documents you don't get on our plane. Do you really want people like this to arrive here?

Donald Trump · 14-04-2021 06:59PM

saabsaab wrote: »

Nothing to do with law enforcement. As is already the case if you don't have certain documents you don't get on our plane. Do you really want people like this to arrive here?

Yeah. Anyone trying to check in for a plane to the US won't get past the check-in desk in Dublin unless you show the person either a valid visa or your ESTA.

Airlines currently get fined for bringing people that are not eligible (in general, if it happens anywhere). And then they have to bring the person back home too.

You only need a driving licence to travel between Ireland and the UK for example. I think Aer Lingus still accept a driving licence but the others don't. If you book the other airlines, and arrive at the desk with only a driving licence, you won't be getting on the plane. That's just the airline rules. You can go on about UN Human Rights or Constitutional rights until the cows come home. But you won't be coming home yourself!

Ray Donovan · 14-04-2021 07:00PM

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

Early June, around the same time theyd need to sign up to the travel passport.

Assume nothing with these incompetent buffoons though.

If that doesn’t get renewed you can expect an avalanche of people out of here from late June onwards, travel cert or no travel cert. Most of The sun destinations just want a negative PCR on entry and off you go.

As I said earlier if they renew the airport travel fine they aren’t serious about the EU’s travel cert.

rocky1813 · 14-04-2021 07:05PM

My husband was talking to a friend of his today who told him that his sister came back from Spain last week because their father is very ill. Apparently she only got an antigen test in Spain and when she landed in Dublin she was taken by the Gardai to a room in the airport and from there taken to a hotel. The Gardai were very rude to her and told her she’d have to pay to quarantine and also have to pay a 2000 euro fine. At the hotel she was met by soldiers and put in a room. She told them she had no money to pay for this and after staying a couple of nights in the hotel she was let out on appeal and after giving a negative per test. When she was in the hotel she was locked in the room and only let out for two 15 minute breaks a day. I can’t believe this is going on in our country at the moment. I know I’ll be flying out from Belfast during the summer.

Donald Trump · 14-04-2021 07:08PM

rocky1813 wrote: »

My husband was talking to a friend of his today who told him that his sister came back from Spain last week because their father is very ill. Apparently she only got an antigen test in Spain and when she landed in Dublin she was taken by the Gardai to a room in the airport and from there taken to a hotel. The Gardai were very rude to her and told her she’d have to pay to quarantine and also have to pay a 2000 euro fine. At the hotel she was met by soldiers and put in a room. She told them she had no money to pay for this and after staying a couple of nights in the hotel she was let out on appeal and after giving a negative per test. When she was in the hotel she was locked in the room and only let out for two 15 minute breaks a day. I can’t believe this is going on in our country at the moment. I know I’ll be flying out from Belfast during the summer.

Spain isn't on the list for MHQ.

Something is wrong with your story. It might be part of it, or it might be the whole thing.

Feria40 · 14-04-2021 07:10PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Spain isn't on the list for MHQ.

Something is wrong with your story. It might be part of it, or it might be the whole thing.

Yep doesn't add up. Now she was required to have a negative PCR test not a negative Antigen test, I don't see how she wouldn't have known this.

Still don't think that would have landed her in a hotel though

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

Comments