Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

Mullaghteelin · 14-04-2021 11:15AM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Travel is a huge part of the problem though

I can’t emphasise this enough

Ppl are sick of getting the r rate down only to see it rise from travel cases imported into the state.

Often from non essential travel.

It is infuriating.

We need to get that turned off or down to a manageable trickle

hotel quarantine addresses that but probably doesn’t go far enough.

The rights of those who are resident here 100% of the time should take precedence over those who are swanning in and out of the country every few weeks. By all accounts those with genuine absolutely essential reasons to travel are a minority, while we still have tourists coming and going, or residents back from sun holidays.

I have long feared a deadly contagious virus emerging somewhere in the world and how we would react. It appears we would be doomed if a situation demanded an immediate and strict closure of borders. Ireland inc has demonstrated it would be unable or unwilling to do this.

Valhallapt · 14-04-2021 11:24AM

Mullaghteelin wrote: »

The rights of those who are resident here 100% of the time should take precedence over those who are swanning in and out of the country every few weeks. By all accounts those with genuine absolutely essential reasons to travel are a minority, while we still have tourists coming and going, or residents back from sun holidays.

I have long feared a deadly contagious virus emerging somewhere in the world and how we would react. It appears we would be doomed if a situation demanded an immediate and strict closure of borders. Ireland inc has demonstrated it would be unable or unwilling to do this.

This pandemic has really damaged people’s mental health. Some have lost all perspective. The government will need to invest a lot into campaigns to get people out and about and active. Otherwise we’ll never open up again.

Corholio · 14-04-2021 11:24AM

Red Silurian wrote: »

So you agree with quarantine then?

Done correctly, yes. But nice evasion.

Red Silurian · 14-04-2021 11:27AM

Corholio wrote: »

Done correctly, yes. But nice evasion.

What in your opinion is 'done correctly?'

Corholio · 14-04-2021 11:36AM

Red Silurian wrote: »

What in your opinion is 'done correctly?'

Much more foresight of issues that have cropped up, much better and transparent reasons why countries are added/delisted, if serious about 'variants' then people here who have it should be tracked down, better communication with countries (some only heard just before they were added), testing should be a much stronger factor to shorten stays etc.

I don't think it's an overall good system if it's just for 'variants', people without the variants get caught up in it and quarantined, while people here can walk around positive if they want.

But this is a big tangent from the initial point that was replied to.

mohawk · 14-04-2021 11:37AM

is_that_so wrote: »

Even if you lock borders it still gets in and we are not an isolated rock in the South Pacific. So-called bad behaviour is what spreads it and continues to spread it.

Your correct with what you say. However, the larger the numbers coming into Ireland the more likely you are to have people coming in with covid ( a more transmissible variant perhaps). The more barriers you put in place the less people will enter the state. Does anyone believe that the UK variant that spread like wildfire in December/January came into Ireland once. Personally I think more that one person brought it here. Some of them probably did the right thing and restricted their movements when they got here but others didn’t. Some cases will still come in but the more cases you catch the less chance of those cases becoming clusters getting into the community.

14-04-2021 11:41AM

mohawk wrote: »

Your correct with what you say. However, the larger the numbers coming into Ireland the more likely you are to have people coming in with covid ( a more transmissible variant perhaps). The more barriers you put in place the less people will enter the state. Does anyone believe that the UK variant that spread like wildfire in December/January came into Ireland once. Personally I think more that one person brought it here. Some of them probably did the right thing and restricted their movements when they got here but others didn’t. Some cases will still come in but the more cases you catch the less chance of those cases becoming clusters getting into the community.

Do you support MHQ from the UK?

Blut2 · 14-04-2021 11:48AM

Travel had no impact on the 'R' rate, that claim is very easily dis-proven nonsense:

Throughout this year travel has hovered at around 0.5% of covid cases in Ireland in any two week period. Thats a snapshot of one two week period, but you can check the rest and see the same.

Even before mandatory PCR tests on arrival, and before mandatory hotel quarantine, travel was responsible for almost no corona cases in Ireland.

is_that_so · 14-04-2021 11:51AM

mohawk wrote: »

Your correct with what you say. However, the larger the numbers coming into Ireland the more likely you are to have people coming in with covid ( a more transmissible variant perhaps). The more barriers you put in place the less people will enter the state. Does anyone believe that the UK variant that spread like wildfire in December/January came into Ireland once. Personally I think more that one person brought it here. Some of them probably did the right thing and restricted their movements when they got here but others didn’t. Some cases will still come in but the more cases you catch the less chance of those cases becoming clusters getting into the community.

The problem is that MHQ ends up being a capacity one, a point that was made more than once last year, and costing us an awful lot of money. Australia and NZ overcame that by very low caps on how may could come into the country. That really would not fly here at all. Again, you are ignoring behaviours. The virus doesn't spread willy-nilly by itself, it needs human activity in the community to spread.

mohawk · 14-04-2021 12:06PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do you support MHQ from the UK?

We share a land border with the UK. Thousands cross the border daily for work/Education etc. I am not so naive to think we can have MHQ for people in the UK.

I am just pointing out that I can see a logic in reducing travel into the state until there are more people vaccinated. I can see the flaws in the current MHQ system and it probably came a year too late.

14-04-2021 12:15PM

mohawk wrote: »

We share a land border with the UK. Thousands cross the border daily for work/Education etc. I am not so naive to think we can have MHQ for people in the UK.

I am just pointing out that I can see a logic in reducing travel into the state until there are more people vaccinated. I can see the flaws in the current MHQ system and it probably came a year too late.

I don’t disagree with you. I think that ongoing mitigation measures at the border are appropriate, with the acknowledgment that it is risk mitigation and not ZC.

So visa bans from certain counties (eg Brazil), periodic MHQ from countries going through a hard time (eg India - which isn’t on right now which seems crazy), PCR tests and also upon arrival like in the UK. Maybe antigen testing has a role too. But also, allowances for vaccinated people, once that infrastructure is in place to validate certificates.

Plus better domestic test and trace and surge testing

Get things moving, within clear parameters to reduce the biggest risks, while being pragmatic about us being an open island, from an economic and familial perspective

Red Silurian · 14-04-2021 12:28PM

Blut2 wrote: »

Travel had no impact on the 'R' rate, that claim is very easily dis-proven nonsense:

Throughout this year travel has hovered at around 0.5% of covid cases in Ireland in any two week period. Thats a snapshot of one two week period, but you can check the rest and see the same.

Even before mandatory PCR tests on arrival, and before mandatory hotel quarantine, travel was responsible for almost no corona cases in Ireland.

What happened to those 26 imported cases in that 2 week period though? How many of those 26 people went out and socialised with others instead of quarantining?

Jack1985 · 14-04-2021 12:38PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

What happened to those 26 imported cases in that 2 week period though? How many of those 26 people went out and socialised with others instead of quarantining?

Where abouts are you assuming they are socialising? In a Level 5 lockdown?

14-04-2021 12:40PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

What happened to those 26 imported cases in that 2 week period though? How many of those 26 people went out and socialised with others instead of quarantining?

You are completely ignoring the point.
Someone who isn't just after coming off a plane is just as much a risk of being a super-spreader but you want to single them out.

Red Silurian · 14-04-2021 12:46PM

Jack1985 wrote: »

Where abouts are you assuming they are socialising? In a Level 5 lockdown?

Work, meeting up with friends, attending a house party, the things they shouldn't be doing

Deleted User wrote: »

You are completely ignoring the point.
Someone who isn't just after coming off a plane is just as much a risk of being a super-spreader but you want to single them out.

These are people blatantly ignoring the 5km travel limit, they are probably more likely than anybody else to ignore the "stay at home if you're positive" rule as well

caveat emptor · 14-04-2021 12:52PM

Blut2 wrote: »

Travel had no impact on the 'R' rate, that claim is very easily dis-proven nonsense:

Throughout this year travel has hovered at around 0.5% of covid cases in Ireland in any two week period. Thats a snapshot of one two week period, but you can check the rest and see the same.

Even before mandatory PCR tests on arrival, and before mandatory hotel quarantine, travel was responsible for almost no corona cases in Ireland.

Yeah because we didn't properly contact trace.

The south african variant of concern is in the UK. Between the 5 January 2021 to 7 March 2021, they had 204 cases of it.

50% of these cases were travel related. Now as time goes by and it begins to spread throughout the population that percentage will drop. Doesn't mean that it isn't travel that seeded it. I'd trust that data more that our pinky promise contact tracing.

14-04-2021 12:54PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

These are people blatantly ignoring the 5km travel limit, they are probably more likely than anybody else to ignore the "stay at home if you're positive" rule as well

How can you ignore a 5km travel limit when you don't have a residence in the country.
...and 5km is no longer in force. it is the limits of your county now.

Red Silurian · 14-04-2021 12:56PM

Deleted User wrote: »

How can you ignore a 5km travel limit when you don't have a residence in the country.
...and 5km is no longer in force. it is the limits of your county now.

I was making reference to the above 20/02 to 05/03 details

14-04-2021 12:58PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

I was making reference to the above 20/02 to 05/03 details

We are in April now and you are cheering on the destruction of the Irish economy through continued lockdown.

Alast · 14-04-2021 01:05PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

Work, meeting up with friends, attending a house party, the things they shouldn't be doing

These are people blatantly ignoring the 5km travel limit, they are probably more likely than anybody else to ignore the "stay at home if you're positive" rule as well

Do you really think tourists are coming into Ireland in droves and go sightseeing? Everything is closed.

I would say most, if not all, people arriving in Ireland are Irish citizens/residents, coming home.

I do not see why they would be more likely to ignore rules compared to the average Irish resident.

joseywhales · 14-04-2021 01:21PM

Feria40 wrote: »

There is a poll on the Journal this morning asking if the government should cap the number of arrivals into the country.

Unbelievably 65% say yes.

I don't know what so say

Listen we were happy to send unmarried mother and babies off to be abused and "taken care of" for decades, don't doubt this country's ability to turn a blind eye to inconveniences.

Does Aer Lingus continue its direct transatlantic routes now? Or does the Irish government have to subsidise it to keep them open?

hotmail.com · 14-04-2021 01:33PM

It seems like we're about to go into a weekend of chaos with possibly hundreds of people unable to go to the internment camps because they are full and then what!?

Hundreds will be released and the system will be undermined yet again.

Red Silurian · 14-04-2021 01:56PM

Alast wrote: »

Do you really think tourists are coming into Ireland in droves and go sightseeing? Everything is closed.

I would say most, if not all, people arriving in Ireland are Irish citizens/residents, coming home.

I do not see why they would be more likely to ignore rules compared to the average Irish resident.

Tourism works both ways, do you think 10,000 Irish came back from the canaries after dental appointments?

Blut2 · 14-04-2021 02:11PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

What happened to those 26 imported cases in that 2 week period though? How many of those 26 people went out and socialised with others instead of quarantining?

What makes those 26 people any more likely to go out and socialize with others instead of quarantining at home than the 8,204 positive domestic cases in that 2 week period? All of whom had no limitations on their movements imposed, after testing positive here in Ireland?

Approx 99.5% of cases this year have been spread domestically. Which means to claim that travel is responsible for a significant increase in the 'R' number, as the poster I was replying to did, is just blatantly statistically untrue.

PuddingBreath · 14-04-2021 02:19PM

Blut2 wrote: »

What makes those 26 people any more likely to go out and socialize with others instead of quarantining at home than the 8,204 positive domestic cases in that 2 week period? All of whom had no limitations on their movements imposed, after testing positive here in Ireland?

Approx 99.5% of cases this year have been spread domestically. Which means to claim that travel is responsible for a significant increase in the 'R' number, as the poster I was replying to did, is just blatantly statistically untrue.

how did the newer variants get into the country in the first place ?

Red Silurian · 14-04-2021 02:25PM

Blut2 wrote: »

What makes those 26 people any more likely to go out and socialize with others instead of quarantining at home than the 8,204 positive domestic cases in that 2 week period?

They broke the law once by going abroad, I don't see why they'd bother following a home quarantine law

Blut2 wrote: »

All of whom had no limitations on their movements imposed, after testing positive here in Ireland?

This is exactly my point, at the time there was a 5km limit on travel from your home

PuddingBreath wrote: »

how did the newer variants get into the country in the first place ?

There was a wind blowing from the east in November, could that have been the cause of the British variant?

josip · 14-04-2021 02:41PM

PuddingBreath wrote: »

how did the newer variants get into the country in the first place ?

Yes, let's travel back in time and change things.

Blut2 · 14-04-2021 03:06PM

PuddingBreath wrote: »

how did the newer variants get into the country in the first place ?

How would you have proposed to have kept them out, when we have a land border with Northern Ireland that 60,000 people cross every day, that we can't practically, legally, or politically close? Dublin airport has had about 1000 arrivals a day on average this year, so its about 1/60th as likely a source of variants as the border with N.I.

Red Silurian wrote: »

They broke the law once by going abroad, I don't see why they'd bother following a home quarantine law

This is exactly my point, at the time there was a 5km limit on travel from your home

What law do you think you're referring to? There was no law against arriving into the country (and there still isn't for that matter). Nobody arriving in Dublin airport broke any law. Irish citizens (and by extension EU ones) have always been fully legally entitled to enter Ireland, its a fairly fundamental element of our constitutional rights.

14-04-2021 03:16PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

They broke the law once by going abroad, I don't see why they'd bother following a home quarantine law

Did they? I travelled. I didnt break the law. Travelling again in May and again not in breach of any law.

Red Silurian wrote: »

This is exactly my point, at the time there was a 5km limit on travel from your home

No, there wasnt. You have been told this before. You have been shown the law. You have been quoted the law. Why do you continue with this line?

Red Silurian wrote: »

There was a wind blowing from the east in November, could that have been the cause of the British variant?

No but someone that lives in Donegal and works in Northern Ireland could have been.

14-04-2021 03:17PM

PuddingBreath wrote: »

how did the newer variants get into the country in the first place ?

Transport staff driving food, PPE and medicine in from mainland europe.

Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

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